Square tapper replacement bottom bracket - advice, pls.

BigBen said:

Hi All,

I ws searching in the S pages for a replacement for my MTB bottom
bracket, and apparently something like that is only still available at
the Alivio group, and bellow.

Other than being heavier - and how much heavier? - what else bad can I
expect from such part?

Further, probably, the next time I think about replacing a b.b., there
won't be any more square tappered ones in the market, right?

Do I have any way of avoiding this complusory obsoletion, or will just
have to change cranks too (even if I'm perfectly happy with my
cranks)?

TIA,
jbr

Dont worry about S use a far superior TA Axix sq taper BB, apart from
replaceing the bearing it will last forever

CC

BigBen said:

Hi All,

I ws searching in the S pages for a replacement for my MTB bottom
bracket, and apparently something like that is only still available at
the Alivio group, and bellow.

Other than being heavier - and how much heavier? - what else bad can I
expect from such part?

Further, probably, the next time I think about replacing a b.b., there
won't be any more square tappered ones in the market, right?

Do I have any way of avoiding this complusory obsoletion, or will just
have to change cranks too (even if I'm perfectly happy with my
cranks)?

TIA,
jbr

A. Muzi sells high quality Tange square taper BB's for $25 + $5
shipping (last time I got one anyways) There great! I have one on both
my bikes. Metal cups, none of that plastic [censored] shimano is selling now.

-nate

Llatikcuf said:

BigBen said:

Hi All,

I ws searching in the S pages for a replacement for my MTB bottom
bracket, and apparently something like that is only still available at
the Alivio group, and bellow.

Other than being heavier - and how much heavier? - what else bad can I
expect from such part?

Further, probably, the next time I think about replacing a b.b., there
won't be any more square tappered ones in the market, right?

Do I have any way of avoiding this complusory obsoletion, or will just
have to change cranks too (even if I'm perfectly happy with my
cranks)?

TIA,
jbr

A. Muzi sells high quality Tange square taper BB's for $25 + $5
shipping (last time I got one anyways) There great! I have one on both
my bikes. Metal cups, none of that plastic [censored] shimano is selling now.

IMO, like almost everything Shimano does these days, the plastic cups
are aimed at the OEM market; if a cup is cross threaded on the assembly
line, there is little chance of buggering the BB threads on the
commodity aluminum frame (which is worth marginally more than the
plastic cups).

BigBen said:

Hi All,

I ws searching in the S pages for a replacement for my MTB bottom
bracket, and apparently something like that is only still available at
the Alivio group, and bellow.

Other than being heavier - and how much heavier? - what else bad can I
expect from such part?

Further, probably, the next time I think about replacing a b.b., there
won't be any more square tappered ones in the market, right?

Do I have any way of avoiding this complusory obsoletion, or will just
have to change cranks too (even if I'm perfectly happy with my
cranks)?

I doubt that these are going away anytime soon. Nashbar has the UN-53 in
a full range of sizes now on sale for $18. If you're worried, buy 2
(they last a long time). Weight is listed at 300g, I don't think any
square taper BB will be a lot lighter.

Ozark Bicycle said:

Llatikcuf said:

BigBen said:

Hi All,

I ws searching in the S pages for a replacement for my MTB bottom
bracket, and apparently something like that is only still available at
the Alivio group, and bellow.

Other than being heavier - and how much heavier? - what else bad can I
expect from such part?

Further, probably, the next time I think about replacing a b.b., there
won't be any more square tappered ones in the market, right?

Do I have any way of avoiding this complusory obsoletion, or will just
have to change cranks too (even if I'm perfectly happy with my
cranks)?

TIA,
jbr

A. Muzi sells high quality Tange square taper BB's for $25 + $5
shipping (last time I got one anyways) There great! I have one on both
my bikes. Metal cups, none of that plastic [censored] shimano is selling now.

IMO, like almost everything Shimano does these days, the plastic cups
are aimed at the OEM market; if a cup is cross threaded on the assembly
line, there is little chance of buggering the BB threads on the
commodity aluminum frame (which is worth marginally more than the
plastic cups).

The Shimano BB's have used plastic mounts on one side for a long time
now. I've used them for several years and think it's an entirely
appropriate place to use plastic -- you'll never have to worry about it
corroding in place.

Quoted message said:

Dont worry about S use a far superior TA Axix sq taper BB, apart from
replaceing the bearing it will last forever

From what i understand, this is sealed unit.

Are cup and cone BB worth the investment?

TIa,
jbr

On 31 May 2006 07:39:04 -0700, "Llatikcuf" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

A. Muzi sells high quality Tange square taper BB's for $25 + $5
shipping (last time I got one anyways) There great! I have one on both
my bikes. Metal cups, none of that plastic [censored] shimano is selling now.

Where on the web is that??

I googled it, but could not find it.

TIA,
jbr

Peter Cole said:

I doubt that these are going away anytime soon. Nashbar has the UN-53 in
a full range of sizes now on sale for $18. If you're worried, buy 2
(they last a long time). Weight is listed at 300g, I don't think any
square taper BB will be a lot lighter.

Thanks a lot for the sugestion!

The measures I need to know are width of bracket on the frame, and
lenght from one end of the axle to the other, right?

How good, or bad, is UN-53 in the Shimano range?

TIA,
jbr

BigBen said:

On 31 May 2006 07:39:04 -0700, "Llatikcuf" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

A. Muzi sells high quality Tange square taper BB's for $25 + $5
shipping (last time I got one anyways) There great! I have one on both
my bikes. Metal cups, none of that plastic [censored] shimano is selling now.

Where on the web is that??

I googled it, but could not find it.

TIA,
jbr

http://www.yellowjersey.org

Picture of the BB:

http://www.yellowjersey.org/TANGEBB.JPG

Give him a call...

Two choices in affordable square-taper bottom brackets

Tange/Shimano UN-50 series : all steel, 280gm, $20-$25. A good model
with metal cups on BOTH sides is available from www.yellowjersey.org.

Tange/Shimano UN-70 series : aluminum cups, 240 gm, $30-$40. A good
model with metal cups on BOTH sides is available from www.interlocracing.com.

=====

The first step is to measure the width of your existing bottom
bracket. The second step is to decide if your BB has a 3mm offset on
the drive side. Almost all bottom modern bottom brackets are
symmetric, so if yours has the offset, you probably want to add 3mm to
your overall BB spindle length target.

The lower-end campagnolo bottom brackets are asymmetric in the triple
sizes, like the old nuovo record (and most) components of the 1970's
and 1980's. So if you can live with 115.5mm, you can also choose from
campy AC-S (299 gm) and AC-H (288 gm) and Centaur bottom (240 gm)
brackets. You can also get asymmetric Chorus (111mm, 220gm) and
record (111mm, 190 gm) in the triple sizes.

- Don Gillies
San Diego, CA

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

In article <[email hidden]>,

BigBen said:

Quoted message said:

Dont worry about S use a far superior TA Axix sq taper BB, apart from
replaceing the bearing it will last forever

From what i understand, this is sealed unit.

Are cup and cone BB worth the investment?

_ I don't think you can buy them anymore except as vintage
equipment. Cup and cone BB's will last a long time with
regular maintainance, but a good sealed unit will also
last a long time w/ no maintainance.

_ Booker C. Bense

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Booker C. Bense said:

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Are cup and cone BB worth the investment?

http://www.genisysconsulting.co.uk/royce-uk/bba.htm

These are fantastic quality cup-and-cone bottom brackets still made by
a british boutique component maker.

- Don Gillies
San Diego, CA

On Wed, 31 May 2006 13:21:21 GMT, [email hidden] (BigBen)

Quoted message said:

Hi All,

I ws searching in the S pages for a replacement for my MTB bottom
bracket, and apparently something like that is only still available at
the Alivio group, and bellow.

No, it means that the only Shimano groups still using square taper for
new production cranks are at the Alivio level and below; they still
make the various UN-xx BB units as service replacements. The only
named Shimano BB model that I have seen vanish is the older Dura-Ace,
but there may very well have been types I simply didn't know about.
No square-taper crank has been completely orphaned at this point as
far as I know, though some specific BB models have been supplanted by
others in practice. The square-taper BB model choices preferred by a
few riders whose needs for strength are unusually high have been
dropping, though. The common units presently on the market tend to be
more along the lines of commodity-level parts, though there's always
Phil Wood if you want something better.

Quoted message said:

Other than being heavier - and how much heavier? - what else bad can I
expect from such part?

It will work. Depending on the version you choose, it may not be much
heavier, if at all. Don't look to Shimano's site for replacement
parts; it's geared to the new-bike market, not the end user with an
older unit.

Quoted message said:

Further, probably, the next time I think about replacing a b.b., there
won't be any more square tappered ones in the market, right?

Wrong. That market is alive and well, and the hundreds of millions of
bikes using it will remain in use and present as a market to be
serviced. Even if Shimano were to (unwisely) stop making them, you
would have multiple options from other sources.

Quoted message said:

Do I have any way of avoiding this complusory obsoletion, or will just
have to change cranks too (even if I'm perfectly happy with my
cranks)?

There is no danger that you will have an issue in this area IMO.

--
Typoes are a feature, not a bug.
Some gardening required to reply via email.
Words processed in a facility that contains nuts.

Donald Gillies said:

http://www.genisysconsulting.co.uk/royce-uk/bba.htm

Quoted message said:

These are fantastic quality cup-and-cone bottom brackets
still made by a british boutique component maker.

Royce use cartridge bearings in their bottom brackets.

James Thomson

BigBen said:

On 31 May 2006 07:39:04 -0700, "Llatikcuf" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

A. Muzi sells high quality Tange square taper BB's for $25 + $5
shipping (last time I got one anyways) There great! I have one on both
my bikes. Metal cups, none of that plastic [censored] shimano is selling now.

Where on the web is that??

I googled it, but could not find it.

TIA,
jbr

Ordinary Cup and cone BB are hard to get. TA BB are available in steel
and titanium spindle options, it is not a sealed until but use sealed
cartridge bearings.

They are similar to the Royce but alot cheaper.

CC

Quoted message said:

Ordinary Cup and cone BB are hard to get. TA BB are available in steel
and titanium spindle options, it is not a sealed until but use sealed
cartridge bearings.

They are similar to the Royce but alot cheaper.

Seems the best option I've read about so far.

Could a sealed cartridge bearing from TA for an Isis or Octalink bb,
fit a square tapper bb?

Furthermore, does anyone notice any real advantage in the new bb
designs?

TIA,
jbr

thanks a lot for the info and sugestions!

On 31 May 2006 11:06:31 -0700, [email hidden] (Donald Gillies)

Quoted message said:

Two choices in affordable square-taper bottom brackets

Tange/Shimano UN-50 series : all steel, 280gm, $20-$25. A good model
with metal cups on BOTH sides is available from www.yellowjersey.org.

Tange/Shimano UN-70 series : aluminum cups, 240 gm, $30-$40. A good
model with metal cups on BOTH sides is available from www.interlocracing.com.

=====

The first step is to measure the width of your existing bottom
bracket. The second step is to decide if your BB has a 3mm offset on
the drive side. Almost all bottom modern bottom brackets are
symmetric, so if yours has the offset, you probably want to add 3mm to
your overall BB spindle length target.

The lower-end campagnolo bottom brackets are asymmetric in the triple
sizes, like the old nuovo record (and most) components of the 1970's
and 1980's. So if you can live with 115.5mm, you can also choose from
campy AC-S (299 gm) and AC-H (288 gm) and Centaur bottom (240 gm)
brackets. You can also get asymmetric Chorus (111mm, 220gm) and
record (111mm, 190 gm) in the triple sizes.

- Don Gillies
San Diego, CA

"BigBen" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Hi All,

I ws searching in the S pages for a replacement for my MTB bottom
bracket, and apparently something like that is only still available at
the Alivio group, and bellow.

Sigh... sounds like you've obtained some advice from a bike shop... You
should have come here first.

99% of the bikes being sold in the world use square taper BBs. This has
been the case now for 50 years. In 10 years it will still probably be the
case, and "standards" such as ISIS and Octalink will have come and gone.

Quoted message said:

Other than being heavier - and how much heavier? - what else bad can I
expect from such part?

Heavier? depends on how much you want to pay. A Campagnolo Record BB comes
in at 190 grams. Titanium spindle models have been made at less than 150
grams. The square taper design does not inherently mean that it has to be
heavier.

Quoted message said:

Further, probably, the next time I think about replacing a b.b., there
won't be any more square tappered ones in the market, right?

No. They will continue to be sold new for longer than you or I will be
alive. And even if there happens to be some global conspiracy to shut down
all production of square taper BB's they will be sold on Ebay for decades
after that. Don't worry about it.

Quoted message said:

Do I have any way of avoiding this complusory obsoletion, or will just
have to change cranks too (even if I'm perfectly happy with my
cranks)?

Keep your cranks. If the bike shop gives you some jive about replacements
being "hard to find" (not true), then get another shop.

Quoted message said:

TIA,
jbr

Werehatrack said:

new production cranks are at the Alivio level and below; they still
make the various UN-xx BB units as service replacements. The only

Specially liked this one, thank you!

Quoted message said:

more along the lines of commodity-level parts, though there's always
Phil Wood if you want something better.

Not necessarily that good ($$$) ...

Quoted message said:

Wrong. That market is alive and well, and the hundreds of millions of
bikes using it will remain in use and present as a market to be
serviced. Even if Shimano were to (unwisely) stop making them, you
would have multiple options from other sources.

If I were in Shimano's shoes, now apparently no "big" manufacturer
makes square tapper bb s, I much just as well stop making square
tapper bb s after a few years of launching the Octalink

Thank you,
jbr