Staying at the hostels before they close

Hermoine said:

Even if this approach does not gather enough momentum to make a real
difference (it really is difficult to predict whether something will
capture people's imagination and take off, or end up being a damp
squib), I think anyone who did take part might be glad that they
managed to stay in some of these great places that we will never see
again.

As an active CAMRA member, I am involved in a lot of similar activity to
"save" pubs that are threatened with closure. The problem is that either
a) it's too little too late (token gestures are not going to save an
establishment that is really struggling that badly) or b) it won't make
a difference anyway because the owner has already made up his/her mind.

I support your ideal, but as someone who has not used a youth hostel in
over 15 years, I feel it would be hypocritical of me to take part.

Good luck to you, but I suspect you will be whistling in the wind.

d.

davek said:

Hermoine said:

Even if this approach does not gather enough momentum to make a real
difference (it really is difficult to predict whether something will
capture people's imagination and take off, or end up being a damp
squib), I think anyone who did take part might be glad that they
managed to stay in some of these great places that we will never see
again.

As an active CAMRA member, I am involved in a lot of similar activity to
"save" pubs that are threatened with closure. The problem is that either
a) it's too little too late (token gestures are not going to save an
establishment that is really struggling that badly) or b) it won't make
a difference anyway because the owner has already made up his/her mind.

I support your ideal, but as someone who has not used a youth hostel in
over 15 years, I feel it would be hypocritical of me to take part.

Good luck to you, but I suspect you will be whistling in the wind.

I wonder if hostels could be 'saved' using the same tactic that CAMRA uses
to save pubs?

Only allow a change of use to residential once the unviability as a youth
hostel has been proven.

The best way to test this is to force the owners to place the property on
the open market *as a youth hostel*, then only if no one comes forward to
run it as such can they be granted planning permission for a change of use.

The argument can be put forward that a youth hostel is a local amenity and
as such should be retained - brings in business, promotes tourism and so
on.

Having fought applications and subsequent planning appeals for pubs - and
won - it may at least keep youth hostels available, albeit under different
ownership than the YHA.

Worth a try?

John B

John B said:

Only allow a change of use to residential once the unviability as a youth
hostel has been proven.

The hostel in Corris is now in private hands and is thriving. Prices
are down and you can buy a cooked breakfast for £3.

The YHA selling them does not imply they will close as hostels,
indeed, they are probably worth more sold as a business and private
owners can be more innovative.
--
Let us have a moment of silence for all Americans who
are now stuck in traffic on their way to a health club
to ride a stationary bicycle. -
Congressman Earl Blumenauer (Oregon)

Tom Crispin said:

John B said:

Only allow a change of use to residential once the unviability as a youth
hostel has been proven.

The hostel in Corris is now in private hands and is thriving. Prices
are down and you can buy a cooked breakfast for £3.

That's excellent and proves the point.

Quoted message said:

The YHA selling them does not imply they will close as hostels,
indeed, they are probably worth more sold as a business and private
owners can be more innovative.

If that is the case then it is good. Let's see them being advertised for sale
as hostels with teh possibility that someone with better business management
skills than the YHA can make them successful.

John B

John B said:

The argument can be put forward that a youth hostel is a local amenity and
as such should be retained - brings in business, promotes tourism and so
on.

Yes, but as I'm sure you are aware, you can successfully argue that an
establishment is a "local amenity" only if people really do use them -
is that the case with the hostels the YHA is getting rid of?

Quoted message said:

Having fought applications and subsequent planning appeals for pubs - and
won - it may at least keep youth hostels available, albeit under different
ownership than the YHA.

I don't know about your CAMRA branch, but ours has lost more cases than
it has won (and that's assuming you can really say it was us wot won
them). As for youth hostels, I like to think they're a cause worth
fighting for, but I can't help feeling pessimistic about them, even more
so than pubs.

d.

davek said:

John B said:

The argument can be put forward that a youth hostel is a local amenity
and
as such should be retained - brings in business, promotes tourism and so
on.

Yes, but as I'm sure you are aware, you can successfully argue that an
establishment is a "local amenity" only if people really do use them -
is that the case with the hostels the YHA is getting rid of?

Quoted message said:

Having fought applications and subsequent planning appeals for pubs - and
won - it may at least keep youth hostels available, albeit under
different
ownership than the YHA.

I don't know about your CAMRA branch, but ours has lost more cases than
it has won (and that's assuming you can really say it was us wot won
them). As for youth hostels, I like to think they're a cause worth
fighting for, but I can't help feeling pessimistic about them, even more
so than pubs.

d.

And the YHA got a big handout from the govt last week too.

davek said:

John B said:

The argument can be put forward that a youth hostel is a local amenity and
as such should be retained - brings in business, promotes tourism and so
on.

Yes, but as I'm sure you are aware, you can successfully argue that an
establishment is a "local amenity" only if people really do use them -
is that the case with the hostels the YHA is getting rid of?

<drifting OT>

But the argument is that given a chance under a *different* ownership a
facility such as a hostel may become viable. should an 'amenity' be lost to the
community, both local and wider just because teh present management is inept?
The chance should be made available to others before any change of use to cash
in on residential property values is permitted.

If of course no one comes forward to invest then in the existing business then
by all means permit a change of use.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Having fought applications and subsequent planning appeals for pubs - and
won - it may at least keep youth hostels available, albeit under different
ownership than the YHA.

I don't know about your CAMRA branch, but ours has lost more cases than
it has won (and that's assuming you can really say it was us wot won
them).

<still drifting OT>
I have attended a number of appeals and won, from the submissions we provided.
We will object to any planning permission for a change of use where unviability
has not be proven.
We have built a pretty good template.

Quoted message said:

As for youth hostels, I like to think they're a cause worth
fighting for, but I can't help feeling pessimistic about them, even more
so than pubs.

I'm afraid I agree with you. With pubs, many local plans specifically name the
pub as an 'amenity' that should be retained. As such it has greater protection
in the planning process, particularly when it reaches an appeal stage. This has
often required much pressure and lobbying to acheive this status.

I don't think youth hostellers have had such foresight as they are not
predominately a campaigning organisation.

Perhaps there is a case for one to form.

So to make better accommodation chains for cyclists

<back OT> :-)

John B

Tom Crispin said:

John B said:

Only allow a change of use to residential once the unviability as a
youth hostel has been proven.

The hostel in Corris is now in private hands and is thriving. Prices
are down and you can buy a cooked breakfast for £3.

The YHA selling them does not imply they will close as hostels,
indeed, they are probably worth more sold as a business and private
owners can be more innovative.

If that is so it suggest that the YHA management is failing. Who actually
owns the YHA? Could the whole lot be sacked? Could it be sold to a co-op run
by members and staff?

--
Andy Morris

AndyAtJinkasDotFreeserve.Co.UK

Love this:
Put an end to Outlook Express's messy quotes
http://home.in.tum.de/~jain/software/oe-quotefix/

Hermoine said:

Hi,

I'm new to this discussion group.

Here is a suggestion I've being making in a few other places eg
hostelling internet discussion groups.

It relates to trying to do something to save some of the hostels in
England and Wales that the YHA are planning to close - counting the
ones announced last year, it actually amounts to around 1/4 of the
whole network!

The total number of closures announced in the last 6 months are
actually 50 rather than 32.

The closures are:

12 hostels which were announced as closing since August - Badby,
Lincoln, Crowcombe, Aysgarth, Ystradfellte, Kemsing, Malvern,
Bradenham, Broadstairs, Winchester, Corris,

I know Corris is to be run as a walking Hostel, but needs structural work.
They will be glad to have more staying and it is right on route 8.
ttfn
Jane

Maths was never my strong subject, are there any that are not closing?

John,

Thanks so much for your suggestion - I've forwarded it to various people I
know who are concerned about the hostel closures - we are all very
interested in this idea, and would welcome any practical advice on the
mechanics of how to go about it, or a copy of your template.

As ordinary folk, we have little experience in campaigning......

My email address is jim hyphen penny at tiscali dot co dot uk

The Langridge Family have also been trying to save the hostels ever since
the YHA announced its new strategy last year.

Their email address is: campaign at langridgefamily dot wanadoo dot co dot
uk.

Any help, advice, support all very welcome.

"John B" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

davek said:

John B said:

The argument can be put forward that a youth hostel is a local amenity
and
as such should be retained - brings in business, promotes tourism and
so
on.

Yes, but as I'm sure you are aware, you can successfully argue that an
establishment is a "local amenity" only if people really do use them -
is that the case with the hostels the YHA is getting rid of?

<drifting OT>

But the argument is that given a chance under a *different* ownership a
facility such as a hostel may become viable. should an 'amenity' be lost
to the
community, both local and wider just because teh present management is
inept?
The chance should be made available to others before any change of use to
cash
in on residential property values is permitted.

If of course no one comes forward to invest then in the existing business
then
by all means permit a change of use.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Having fought applications and subsequent planning appeals for pubs -
and
won - it may at least keep youth hostels available, albeit under
different
ownership than the YHA.

I don't know about your CAMRA branch, but ours has lost more cases than
it has won (and that's assuming you can really say it was us wot won
them).

<still drifting OT>
I have attended a number of appeals and won, from the submissions we
provided.
We will object to any planning permission for a change of use where
unviability
has not be proven.
We have built a pretty good template.

Quoted message said:

As for youth hostels, I like to think they're a cause worth
fighting for, but I can't help feeling pessimistic about them, even more
so than pubs.

I'm afraid I agree with you. With pubs, many local plans specifically name
the
pub as an 'amenity' that should be retained. As such it has greater
protection
in the planning process, particularly when it reaches an appeal stage.
This has
often required much pressure and lobbying to acheive this status.

I don't think youth hostellers have had such foresight as they are not
predominately a campaigning organisation.

Perhaps there is a case for one to form.

So to make better accommodation chains for cyclists

<back OT> :-)

John B

Just to give an update on the progress on individual websites on closing
hostels:

There are now two websites under development on the closures: Dave
Plummer's website: http://www.daveplummer.co.uk/hostels/closures/index.htm.

And I've just started putting together my own website, and would welcome
either photos - I'm mainly interested in evocative, photogenic pictures of
the hostel itself or nice walks, cycles etc in the area rather than happy
group photos - or else descriptive text.
My "embryonic" website is at
http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/pennyswebs/hostelclosures/

"Hermoine" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Hi,

I'm new to this discussion group.

Here is a suggestion I've being making in a few other places eg
hostelling internet discussion groups.

It relates to trying to do something to save some of the hostels in
England and Wales that the YHA are planning to close - counting the
ones announced last year, it actually amounts to around 1/4 of the
whole network!

What if as many people as possible (individual walkers and cyclists,
and members of various walking, cycling, or hostelling groups) try to
visit these hostels sometime before they close eg in the Spring or
Summer this year, and enjoy them and the countryside nearby, and take
digital photos of the hostels and the surrounding area and other
attractions, and/or produce some descriptions about them and the area.
The photos and text could be put up on the internet eg "unofficial
websites" for the closing hostels.

If this sort of grass roots publicity does improve overnights
significantly at these places, and even people who were previously
non-hostellers end up finding out these hostels and how nice they are
this a) makes it harder for the YHA to justify closing them and b) may
help to turn around some of the YHA's financial problems (which is why
they feel that they have to sell off hostels in the first place).

Even if this approach does not gather enough momentum to make a real
difference (it really is difficult to predict whether something will
capture people's imagination and take off, or end up being a damp
squib), I think anyone who did take part might be glad that they
managed to stay in some of these great places that we will never see
again.

If you know anyone who is interested in the countryside and may want to
stay in some lovely places before they are gone, please forward this to
them as well.

The total number of closures announced in the last 6 months are
actually 50 rather than 32.

The closures are:

12 hostels which were announced as closing since August - Badby,
Lincoln, Crowcombe, Aysgarth, Ystradfellte, Kemsing, Malvern,
Bradenham, Broadstairs, Winchester, Corris, Hampstead.
The information I have at present is that some of these are still open:
"Badby, Lincoln, are no longer available. Crowcombe will close in 2006
and is taking bookings to end of March. Broadstairs has disappeared
from the map despite an offer being listed and the link is dead.
Winchester has been taken back by the National Trust. Corris is still
open - no longer associating itself with YHA. Bradenham will close in
2006 at a date to be finalised....Aysgarth and Ystradfellte have been
sold. Kemsing, Malvern and Hampstead appear to be open as 'normal'"

6 more closures were announced over Xmas - Portsmouth,Baldersdale,
Blaencaron, Chester, Dentdale, Llanbedr.
I think they are still open at present.

32 more were announced very recently - the YHA are intending to start
to close these later this year, but the closures will be spread over a
longer period, so there may be more chance of saving some of them.

The following will be closed with no replacement.
1. Ivinghoe in the Chilterns and on the Ridgeway National Trail
2. Blackboys in the Sussex Weald on the Weald Way path.
3. Castle Hedingham in Essex.
4. Steps Bridge in the Teign Gorge near Exeter and Dartmoor.
5. Dartington near Totnes on the River Dart near Dartmoor and the South
Devon Coastpath.
6. Quantock Hills near Holford in Somerset.
7. Elmscott near Hartland and Clovelly on the North Devon Coastpath.
8. Capel-y-Ffin in the Brecon Beacons on Offas Dyke and the Cambrian
Way.
9. Trefin on the Pembrokeshire Coastpath.
10. Dolgoch in the remote Welsh Tywi Valley.
11. Tyncornel in the remote Welsh Elenydd.
12. Llangollen in the Clwydian Hills & Dee Valley; one of YHA's
flagship activity centres till just a couple of years ago.
13. Meerbrook in the Peak District near the Roaches rocks and
Staffordshire Moorlands.
14. Langsett near Sheffield on the newly-opened Trans-Pennine Trail.
15. Earby between the Yorkshire Dales and Forest of Bowland on the
Pennine Way and Pendle Way.
16. Stainforth in the Yorkshire Dales on the Pennine Way and Three
Peaks Challenge Walk.
17. Keld in Swaledale at the junction of the Pennine Way with the
Coast-to-Coast Path and Herriot Way.
18. Kirkby Stephen in the Eden Valley on the Coast-to-Coast Path.
19. Alston in the North Pennines and South Tyne Valley on the Pennine
Wayand Coast-to-Coast Cycle Route.
20. Greenhead on Hadrians Wall and the Pennine Way.
21. Acomb near Hexham on Hadrians Wall between Northumberland and the
North Pennines.
22. Bellingham near Kielder Water in Northumberland on the Pennine Way.
23. Wooler in the Cheviot Hills on St Cuthberts Way and the Ravenber
Path.

The following will be closed but YHA will see if it's possible to open
another hostel in the area after they've closed:

24. Dover in Kent on the North Downs Way.
25. Hastings (Guestling) on the Sussex Coast.
26. Brighton (Patcham) on the South Downs Way.
27. Sandown on the Isle of Wight.
28. Lynton in Exmoor on the North Devon Coastpath and Two Moors Way.
29. Matlock in the Peak District.
30. Bakewell in the Peak District.

The following will be closed if YHA can open another hostel in the
area:

31. Liverpool, only opened a few years ago.
32. Rotherhithe, opened a few years ago as a flagship hostel.