Steel bars

Forget the bars - compared to tires first then grips second.

Get fatter tires and put less pressure in them. And get softer grips.

Then learn to ride with less pressure on the bars. Or get a road bike which has multiple hand
positions and more flex.

-Bruce

"Paul" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I ride a relatively budget, rigid mountain bike. It's 7005 T6 aluminium

with

Quoted message said:

a cromoly rigid fork. I don't ride serious off-road but I do ride 30-40

mile

Quoted message said:

rides on rough country roads/trails regularly.

As my ride times get longer I've noticed my hands getting a tad numb. Recently I was reading a
review of a similar rigid mountain bike which talked about its steel bars being bad for the hands,
the same mag. had

some

Quoted message said:

buying advice too which stated that one should avoid steel seatposts and bars or replace them as a
matter of urgency with alloy ones as they

transmit

Quoted message said:

ground shock straight into the bones.

I've heard a lot about aluminium frames being unforgiving compared to

steel

Quoted message said:

and so had assumed that the cost cutting steel bars on my bike would probably be ok (I'm not too
worried about weight) as they would have a little more flex than alloy ones. This assumption would
appear to be

wrong.

Quoted message said:

Would replacing the steel bars on my bike with aluminium ones help the numbness in my hands (the
seatpost is already aluminium) or would just getting some thicker grips do the job?

Thanks for any thoughts, Kind Regards, Paul.

Hello Paul,

Numbness in the hands is usually due to pressure on the nerve bundle at the base of your palm. These
are the same nerves that are involved in carpal tunnel syndrome. I've heard that good riding gloves
can help. Soft grips too. Try altering your riding position such that less of your weight is carried
by your arms.

As far as the steel vs. aluminum debate, can we all say bogus? Its true that aluminum has a lower
modulus of elasticity, but it is still of such a large value, that there would be no perceptable
difference in "shock transmission".

Mike L.

Paul said:

I ride a relatively budget, rigid mountain bike. It's 7005 T6 aluminium with a cromoly rigid fork.
I don't ride serious off-road but I do ride 30-40 mile rides on rough country roads/trails
regularly.

As my ride times get longer I've noticed my hands getting a tad numb. Recently I was reading a
review of a similar rigid mountain bike which talked about its steel bars being bad for the hands,
the same mag. had some buying advice too which stated that one should avoid steel seatposts and
bars or replace them as a matter of urgency with alloy ones as they transmit ground shock straight
into the bones.

I've heard a lot about aluminium frames being unforgiving compared to steel and so had assumed
that the cost cutting steel bars on my bike would probably be ok (I'm not too worried about
weight) as they would have a little more flex than alloy ones. This assumption would appear to
be wrong.

Would replacing the steel bars on my bike with aluminium ones help the numbness in my hands (the
seatpost is already aluminium) or would just getting some thicker grips do the job?

Thanks for any thoughts, Kind Regards, Paul.

In article said:

Recently I was reading a review of a similar rigid mountain bike which talked about its steel bars
being bad for the hands, the same mag. had some buying advice too which stated that one should
avoid steel seatposts and bars or replace them as a matter of urgency with alloy ones as they
transmit ground shock straight into the bones.

One wonders that a writer could write and an editor would pass an opinion like that. What
perceptable difference could a different metal alloy make in the compression of a tube?

I think the bit you've read about Al frames being more "unforgiving compared to steel" comes from
the very ridgid oversized Al tubing bikes (as in Cannondale) that caused the writers working for
buycycling type magazines to sniff about "harsh rides," for lack of anything better to sniff about.

The comments about gloves are right on. Also consider some kind of "climbing bars" to give yourself
alternative hand positions.

Tom Gibb <[email hidden]

Paul' may have said:

As my ride times get longer I've noticed my hands getting a tad numb.

If subjected to constant vibration, this will happen to any body part. Riceburner motorcycle
enthusiasts used to regularly sneer at certain other bikes for their ability to cause "Harley butt";
a numbness in the posterior and privates that can take an hour to subside.

Quoted message said:

Recently I was reading a review of a similar rigid mountain bike which talked about its steel bars
being bad for the hands, the same mag. had some buying advice too which stated that one should
avoid steel seatposts and bars or replace them as a matter of urgency with alloy ones as they
transmit ground shock straight into the bones.

So they had an advertiser who wanted to sell more aliuminum bars and posts. Bogus. Any bar or post
unstiff enough to make a real difference here would also be unstiff enough to *use*. (And make no
mistake, good aluminum bars and posts are *very* stiff indeed!)

Quoted message said:

I've heard a lot about aluminium frames being unforgiving compared to steel and so had assumed that
the cost cutting steel bars on my bike would probably be ok (I'm not too worried about weight) as
they would have a little more flex than alloy ones. This assumption would appear to be wrong.

No, I'd say that your impression is correct for average riders. I doubt that you'd feel any
difference. The major *possible* reason that an aluminum frame might seem to give a harser ride is
the fact that the reduction in bike weight would provide less inertia to resist road forces, and
therefore would transmit the road forces more readily. (Thus further making a mockery of the
"aluminum doesn't transmit the shock" argument as well.)

Quoted message said:

Would replacing the steel bars on my bike with aluminium ones help the numbness in my hands (the
seatpost is already aluminium) or would just getting some thicker grips do the job?

Thicker grips might help. A suspension fork would help a lot more. Better gloves, and perhaps a set
of bar ends to allow you to have multiple grip positions, might help a little, too. Most of all, try
to school yourself to put less weight forward on your arms if that's possible to do without ruining
your riding style. Others will have other suggestions. Use the ones that work for you; it's likely
that not all of them will.

--
My email address is antispammed; pull WEEDS if replying via e-mail. Yes, I have a killfile. If I
don't respond to something, it's also possible that I'm busy.

Paul said:

I ride a relatively budget, rigid mountain bike. It's 7005 T6 aluminium with a cromoly rigid fork.
I don't ride serious off-road but I do ride 30-40 mile rides on rough country roads/trails
regularly.

As my ride times get longer I've noticed my hands getting a tad numb. Recently I was reading a
review of a similar rigid mountain bike which talked about its steel bars being bad for the hands,
the same mag. had some buying advice too which stated that one should avoid steel seatposts and
bars or replace them as a matter of urgency with alloy ones as they transmit ground shock straight
into the bones.

I've heard a lot about aluminium frames being unforgiving compared to steel and so had assumed that
the cost cutting steel bars on my bike would probably be ok (I'm not too worried about weight) as
they would have a little more flex than alloy ones. This assumption would appear to be wrong.

Would replacing the steel bars on my bike with aluminium ones help the numbness in my hands (the
seatpost is already aluminium) or would just getting some thicker grips do the job?

Thanks for any thoughts, Kind Regards, Paul.

I don't think that the steel bars are the problem. From my experience with long road/trail rides on
mountain bikes, the problem is the flat bars and no place to move my hands. Bar ends and switching
position and posture often helps.

Also, numb hands are often caused by fit problems. Too much weight forward because the stem or top
tube is too long, the handlebars are too low, or the saddle is tilted slightly forward requiring
constant weight on the hands to push yourself back onto the saddle. If you *have* to have a tight
grip on the bars all the time, if you can't basically let go of the bars in some positions (just
loosen your grip until your hands float around the bar), then you will have hand problems on long
road/trail rides and you need to change your setup.

Somehow figure out how to take pressure off your hands, relax your grip, and move around.

I do move my hand position around a lot on long rides and take them off the bars altogether now and
then, when riding relaxed I tend to just drape them over the brake hoods. It was just reading the
advice about steel bars being bad that made me think. My hands don't go numb as such but do tend to
tingle at after 30-40miles. Bar ends and thicker grips sound a good idea.

How much weight on the hands is normal? As a relative beginner a lot of my setting up has been done
according to internet advice and a bit of trial and error. I'd read somewhere that it was better to
spread your weight between both the saddle and bars. I ride recreationally and have a fairly upright
position (at a guess probably about 70 degrees to the ground) with weight distribution mostly but
not exclusively on the saddle. It's a fairly stretched but comfortable position with a slight bend
at the elbows. Does this sound ok or am I doing something fundementally wrong? I have no problems
with knee, elbows or anything else.

Thanks again for any thoughts, Kind Regards, Paul.

Here in the Southeast we have what I call "40 grit roads". These arecomposed of 3/4" gravel layed
and smoothed (term used very loosely) on top of a tar base.

The result is like riding for miles on a bike equipped with magic fingers. Not fun. Even with fat
tires this vibration can effect your entire body, even in an automobile you can sometimes feel it!

What I did was to get a sprung saddle and a SoftRide stem. No more fatigue!

May you have the wind at your back. And a really low gear for the hills! Chris

Chris'Z Corner "The Website for the Common Bicyclist": geocities.comczcornerOpen ↗

Paul said:

I do move my hand position around a lot on long rides and take them off the bars altogether now and
then, when riding relaxed I tend to just drape them over the brake hoods. It was just reading the
advice about steel bars being bad that made me think. My hands don't go numb as such but do tend to
tingle at after 30-40miles. Bar ends and thicker grips sound a good idea.

Yep, the bar ends and different grips should be helpful. One thing that bar ends do is allow you to
turn your palms to the inside, which is a much more relaxed way to hold your hands and lower arms.

You might also check the angle of your brake levers. It seems that many levers are turned close to
horizontal. This makes you have to roll your wrists backwards to use the levers, which is hard on
the wrists.

Quoted message said:

How much weight on the hands is normal? As a relative beginner a lot of my setting up has been done
according to internet advice and a bit of trial and error. I'd read somewhere that it was better to
spread your weight between both the saddle and bars. I ride recreationally and have a fairly
upright position (at a guess probably about 70 degrees to the ground) with weight distribution
mostly but not exclusively on the saddle. It's a fairly stretched but comfortable position with a
slight bend at the elbows. Does this sound ok or am I doing something fundementally wrong? I have
no problems with knee, elbows or anything else.

Thanks again for any thoughts, Kind Regards, Paul.

If everything else is feeling good and the slight numbness is the only problem, you are probably in
a pretty good position. I'd just play with different positions, and pay attention to what you are
really doing with your hands. Relax them, keep your shoulders relaxed, etc. Bar ends, gloves,
grips.... Try one at a time and see what happens? Others mentioned fatter tires and lower tire
pressure, which will mean less force and tension fighting the front wheel over bumps, etc.

Look at the handlebar width, also. I have one flat bar bike with bars two inches shorter than
another one, and I find them more comfortable to have my hands closer to parallel rather than
splayed outwards. Maybe slide the levers and shifter inwards an inch or so and see if it feels
any better?

No one has mentioned it, and maybe for very good reasons, but about the only way I can see a steel
bar affecting your hands is because of the extra weight in the steering mechanism. More force needed
to keep it under control?

By the way, if the numbness doesn't disappear within an hour or so after a ride, that's not a good
sign. Search out more information if it continues.

Paul said:

As my ride times get longer I've noticed my hands getting a tad numb. Recently I was reading a
review of a similar rigid mountain bike which talked about its steel bars being bad for the hands,
the same mag. had some buying advice too which stated that one should avoid steel seatposts and
bars or replace them as a matter of urgency with alloy ones as they transmit ground shock straight
into the bones.

Absolute horseshit. Yeah, they will transmit "ground shock". So will aluminum. In much the same way.
They get away with this nonesense since all steel bars and seatposts are cheap components, and so
replacing them _looks_ like an upgrade.

Sure aluminum is lighter. That is its big advantage. Leave it at that.

Quoted message said:

I've heard a lot about aluminium frames being unforgiving compared to steel and so had assumed
that the cost cutting steel bars on my bike would probably be ok (I'm not too worried about
weight) as they would have a little more flex than alloy ones. This assumption would appear to
be wrong.

Only if you tend to believe someone who is trying to sell you something.

Steel may have a little more flex than alloy, but it will be miniscule either way. You want more
comfort? Take 5lbs pressure out of your tires.

Quoted message said:

Would replacing the steel bars on my bike with aluminium ones help the numbness in my hands (the
seatpost is already aluminium) or would just getting some thicker grips do the job?

Get the grips, but also get some bar-ends. Having more hand positions helps a lot.

--

David L. Johnson

__o | You will say Christ saith this and the apostles say this; but _`\(,_ | what canst thou say?
-- George Fox. (_)/ (_) |

Mike Lewis said:

As far as the steel vs. aluminum debate, can we all say bogus? Its true that aluminum has a lower
modulus of elasticity, but it is still of such a large value, that there would be no perceptable
difference in "shock transmission".

It ain't necessarily so. Your statement is generally true for frames, which are triangulated and
which tend to use tube diameters appropriate to their materials.

However, a handlebar and a seatpost are constrained as to their respective diameters; they will
measure the same regardless of material. Also, they are loaded as simple beams, unreinforced for
their overhanging lengths (excepting cross-braced handlebars).

If you take a 6 foot length of aluminum tubing in the diameter and thickness of a handlebar, support
both ends and push on it in the middle, you can easily make it flex. A lot. The stiffness of a beam
is inversely proportional to the cube of its length, so a handlebar-length tube will flex much less
(close order of 27 times less), but still significantly. For any given amount of load, the
deflection in a thin-walled aluminum bar can be larger than that of a rubber handgrip. It's one of
the reasons I avoid drop bars-- all their waggling around gives me the willies.

In equal wall thicknesses (and these are more equal than you'd think, considering today's lightest
aluminum handlebars), an aluminum bar will flex 3 times more than a steel one. This goes a long way
towards attenuating peak shock loads at the grips.

I use very long seatposts, and I find that the "bounce" in such a seatpost is usually quite
noticeable. So elastic modulus should have its effect there, too.

Chalo Colina

Chalo <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Mike Lewis said:

As far as the steel vs. aluminum debate, can we all say bogus? Its true

that

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

aluminum has a lower modulus of elasticity, but it is still of such a

large

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

value, that there would be no perceptable difference in "shock

transmission".

Quoted message said:

It ain't necessarily so. Your statement is generally true for frames, which are triangulated and
which tend to use tube diameters appropriate to their materials.

However, a handlebar and a seatpost are constrained as to their respective diameters; they will
measure the same regardless of material. Also, they are loaded as simple beams, unreinforced for
their overhanging lengths (excepting cross-braced handlebars).

If you take a 6 foot length of aluminum tubing in the diameter and thickness of a handlebar,
support both ends and push on it in the middle, you can easily make it flex. A lot. The stiffness
of a beam is inversely proportional to the cube of its length, so a handlebar-length tube will
flex much less (close order of 27 times less), but still significantly. For any given amount of
load, the deflection in a thin-walled aluminum bar can be larger than that of a rubber handgrip.
It's one of the reasons I avoid drop bars-- all their waggling around gives me the willies.

In equal wall thicknesses (and these are more equal than you'd think, considering today's lightest
aluminum handlebars), an aluminum bar will flex 3 times more than a steel one. This goes a long
way towards attenuating peak shock loads at the grips.

I use very long seatposts, and I find that the "bounce" in such a seatpost is usually quite
noticeable. So elastic modulus should have its effect there, too.

Chalo Colina

Well, I still believe it's pure Tolkien, so 'ner'.

Shaun aRe