Stem slipping even at proper torque

"Bestest Handsander" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I have a new Easton EC90 SLX fork. I'm using the Easton Headset Adjuster
(bear-trap type)that come with it instead of a top cap and compression
device. An FSA OS115 stem is mounted on it.

My problem is that even when tightened to the proper torque, the stem

still

Quoted message said:

likes to slide up the tube during the first ride or two loosening the

whole

Quoted message said:

thing.

Are you sure that's what is happening?

Greg

"G.T." <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Bestest Handsander" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I have a new Easton EC90 SLX fork. I'm using the Easton Headset Adjuster
(bear-trap type)that come with it instead of a top cap and compression
device. An FSA OS115 stem is mounted on it.

My problem is that even when tightened to the proper torque, the stem

still

Quoted message said:

likes to slide up the tube during the first ride or two loosening the

whole

Quoted message said:

thing.

Are you sure that's what is happening?

No, not positive. The amount of distance it needs to move to come loose is
so small I can't confirm it with me ruler. I don't think the play is coming
from the crown race, the upper or lower cups( which have been on the bike
for two years. I make sure the fork is snug against the bottom cup, then
apply a fair amount of pressure to the stem and tighten the bolts with my
torque wrench. Then I adjust the bear trap until it is tight (using the
"pick up the bike, lower the front, turn the bars and make sure they return
to the middle" method). It doesn't take much.

I suppose the fork race could be moving, but I can't see that it has.

"Bestest Handsander" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"G.T." <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Bestest Handsander" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I have a new Easton EC90 SLX fork. I'm using the Easton Headset

Adjuster

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

(bear-trap type)that come with it instead of a top cap and compression
device. An FSA OS115 stem is mounted on it.

My problem is that even when tightened to the proper torque, the stem

still

Quoted message said:

likes to slide up the tube during the first ride or two loosening the

whole

Quoted message said:

thing.

Are you sure that's what is happening?

No, not positive. The amount of distance it needs to move to come loose is
so small I can't confirm it with me ruler. I don't think the play is

coming

Quoted message said:

from the crown race, the upper or lower cups( which have been on the bike
for two years. I make sure the fork is snug against the bottom cup, then
apply a fair amount of pressure to the stem and tighten the bolts with my
torque wrench. Then I adjust the bear trap until it is tight (using the
"pick up the bike, lower the front, turn the bars and make sure they

return

Quoted message said:

to the middle" method). It doesn't take much.

I'm totally unfamiliar with the bear trap only having used star nuts. Could
it be something to do with the bear trap? What's the proper torque for the
stem bolts?

Greg

"G.T." <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Bestest Handsander" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"G.T." <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Bestest Handsander" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
> I have a new Easton EC90 SLX fork. I'm using the Easton Headset

Adjuster

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> (bear-trap type)that come with it instead of a top cap and

compression

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> device. An FSA OS115 stem is mounted on it.
>
> My problem is that even when tightened to the proper torque, the stem
still
> likes to slide up the tube during the first ride or two loosening the
whole
> thing.

Are you sure that's what is happening?

No, not positive. The amount of distance it needs to move to come loose

is

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

so small I can't confirm it with me ruler. I don't think the play is

coming

Quoted message said:

from the crown race, the upper or lower cups( which have been on the

bike

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

for two years. I make sure the fork is snug against the bottom cup, then
apply a fair amount of pressure to the stem and tighten the bolts with

my

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

torque wrench. Then I adjust the bear trap until it is tight (using the
"pick up the bike, lower the front, turn the bars and make sure they

return

Quoted message said:

to the middle" method). It doesn't take much.

If I understand the sequence, you are tightening the stem before you tighten
the preload (top cap). Tighten the top cap with stem loose. THEN, tighten
the stem bolts. The stem secures the system. The top cap sets the tension
but does not maintain it.
Bill

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I'm totally unfamiliar with the bear trap only having used star nuts.

Could

Quoted message said:

it be something to do with the bear trap? What's the proper torque for

the

Quoted message said:

stem bolts?

Greg

"Bill" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"G.T." <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Bestest Handsander" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"G.T." <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
>
> "Bestest Handsander" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
> news:[email hidden]...
>> I have a new Easton EC90 SLX fork. I'm using the Easton Headset

Adjuster

Quoted message said:

>> (bear-trap type)that come with it instead of a top cap and

compression

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

>> device. An FSA OS115 stem is mounted on it.
>>
>> My problem is that even when tightened to the proper torque, the

stem

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> still
>> likes to slide up the tube during the first ride or two loosening

the

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> whole
>> thing.
>
> Are you sure that's what is happening?

No, not positive. The amount of distance it needs to move to come

loose

Quoted message said:

is

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

so small I can't confirm it with me ruler. I don't think the play is

coming

Quoted message said:

from the crown race, the upper or lower cups( which have been on the

bike

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

for two years. I make sure the fork is snug against the bottom cup,

then

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

apply a fair amount of pressure to the stem and tighten the bolts with

my

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

torque wrench. Then I adjust the bear trap until it is tight (using

the

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

"pick up the bike, lower the front, turn the bars and make sure they

return

Quoted message said:

to the middle" method). It doesn't take much.

If I understand the sequence, you are tightening the stem before you

tighten

Quoted message said:

the preload (top cap). Tighten the top cap with stem loose. THEN, tighten
the stem bolts. The stem secures the system. The top cap sets the tension
but does not maintain it.

He's using a bear trap which goes under the stem. In this case, you tighten
the stem, and then from looking at Easton's instructions you expand the bear
trap. Maybe the bear trap is slightly collapsing?

Greg

"G.T." <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

If I understand the sequence, you are tightening the stem before you

tighten

Quoted message said:

the preload (top cap). Tighten the top cap with stem loose. THEN, tighten
the stem bolts. The stem secures the system. The top cap sets the tension
but does not maintain it.

He's using a bear trap which goes under the stem. In this case, you
tighten
the stem, and then from looking at Easton's instructions you expand the
bear
trap. Maybe the bear trap is slightly collapsing?

That right, Greg. You tighten the stem. Then you expand the bear trap to
take up the slack. I get it nice and tight, but after 40 miles or so, the
bear trap is loose the steerer is wobbling in the headtube.

I picked up a Problem Solver compression plug at the LBS. I'll put it on for
the weekend and see how it works.

Bestest Handsander said:

I have a new Easton EC90 SLX fork. I'm using the Easton Headset Adjuster
(bear-trap type)that come with it instead of a top cap and compression
device. An FSA OS115 stem is mounted on it.

My problem is that even when tightened to the proper torque, the stem still
likes to slide up the tube during the first ride or two loosening the whole
thing. As far as I can see it my options are:

1. Buy a compression device and use the top cap instead of Easton's device.
2. Roughen the steerer tube with some sandpaper where the stem attaches.
3. Over torque the stem bolts.

One more option - try if an "anti-lube", designed to increase the
friction, helps. Such as this one:

http://www.roseversand.de/output/controller.aspx?cid=156&detail=10&detail2=5480

Konstantin.

Bestest Handsander said:

I have a new Easton EC90 SLX fork. I'm using the Easton Headset Adjuster
(bear-trap type)that come with it instead of a top cap and compression
device. An FSA OS115 stem is mounted on it.

My problem is that even when tightened to the proper torque, the stem still
likes to slide up the tube during the first ride or two loosening the whole
thing. As far as I can see it my options are:

1. Buy a compression device and use the top cap instead of Easton's device.
2. Roughen the steerer tube with some sandpaper where the stem attaches.
3. Over torque the stem bolts.

I think three my leave me "hincapie'd". I don't know if two will. One looks
like my best bet even if it will weigh a few grams more.

Thoughts?

Thanks!

Do number 1, what we do with this daffy adjuster-The Profile one works
well.

Bestest Handsander said:

"G.T." <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

He's using a bear trap which goes under the stem. In this case, you
tighten
the stem, and then from looking at Easton's instructions you expand the
bear
trap. Maybe the bear trap is slightly collapsing?

That right, Greg. You tighten the stem. Then you expand the bear trap to
take up the slack. I get it nice and tight, but after 40 miles or so, the
bear trap is loose the steerer is wobbling in the headtube.

I picked up a Problem Solver compression plug at the LBS. I'll put it on for
the weekend and see how it works.

Sorry, but you wasted your money (at least in terms of solving the
slippage problem). The compression plug / star nut are only there to
adjust the preload prior to clamping the stem down (which is what
holds the system all in place after adjustment).

If a properly adjusted headset/stem comes loose during the ride, it
has nothing to do with the adjuster, but with the stem.

My guess - the steer tube and/or stem are distorted and no longer
round. The whole system relies on a solid mechanical interface
between the two to prevent slilppage. The only other thing I can
think of is that perhaps the threads in your stem's clamp are grungy
enough that the proper torque isn't resulting in enough "sqeeze" - you
might try cleaning and greasing those threads. A related issue could
be a stripped stem clamp bolt that's "losing a turn" under the added
stress of riding?

Mark Hickey
Habanero Cycles
http://www.habcycles.com
Home of the $795 ti frame

Oddly, I just installed an Easton EC90 SL fork on my bike three days
ago. (I got the SL because my bike's head tube takes 1" steerers, and
the SLX is only available in 1.125"😉. Though my fork included
instructions for both a steerer plug and the beartrap device, only the
beartrap device was included.

I agree with Peter--the beartrap device is a little daffy. I don't know
why Easton switched to it from the plug. The beartrap looks and feels
fairly kudgy, and I just couldn't bear it (no pun intended). I ended up
just ordering the Problem Solvers compression plug, and I've been very
happy with it.

For what it's worth, I'm using a 3T Less XL stem (120 mm), which
includes an aluminum 1"-1.125" shim, and I haven't had any problems
with the stem slipping. The torque spec on the two clamping bolts is 9
n-m, I believe.

For what it's worth, I like the plug more than the beartrap from an
engineering perspective. The plug applies an internal pressure, which
partially counteracts the external pressure from tightening the stem
around the steerer. The pressures are almost certainly not equal and
opposite, but they're a lot closer than they would be without the
internal plug.

Let us know if your new plug helps.

Jason

For those of you curious about the beartrap mechanism, Time uses a part
that is functionally identical to the Easton part we've been
discussing:

http://harriscyclery.net/page.cfm?PageID=49&action=details&sku=FK4440

If both Time and Easton are using this part instead of a compression
plug, I'd love to know what it is.

Jason

Quoted message said:

Oddly, I just installed an Easton EC90 SL fork on my bike three days
ago. (I got the SL because my bike's head tube takes 1" steerers, and
the SLX is only available in 1.125"😉. Though my fork included
instructions for both a steerer plug and the beartrap device, only the
beartrap device was included.

I agree with Peter--the beartrap device is a little daffy. I don't know
why Easton switched to it from the plug. The beartrap looks and feels
fairly kudgy, and I just couldn't bear it (no pun intended). I ended up
just ordering the Problem Solvers compression plug, and I've been very
happy with it.

This "bear trap" device ... I don't see it on Easton's web site. Is it
this thing on the fork installation pdf?
http://www.eastonbike.com/downloadable_files/instal_instr/fork-EN.pdf

Quoted message said:

For what it's worth, I'm using a 3T Less XL stem (120 mm), which
includes an aluminum 1"-1.125" shim, and I haven't had any problems
with the stem slipping. The torque spec on the two clamping bolts is 9
n-m, I believe.

For what it's worth, I like the plug more than the beartrap from an
engineering perspective. The plug applies an internal pressure, which
partially counteracts the external pressure from tightening the stem
around the steerer. The pressures are almost certainly not equal and
opposite, but they're a lot closer than they would be without the
internal plug.

Let us know if your new plug helps.

Jason

Robin Hubert

On Sat, 15 Apr 2006 07:23:16 -0700, Mark Hickey <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Bestest Handsander said:

"G.T." <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

He's using a bear trap which goes under the stem. In this case, you
tighten
the stem, and then from looking at Easton's instructions you expand the
bear
trap. Maybe the bear trap is slightly collapsing?

That right, Greg. You tighten the stem. Then you expand the bear trap to
take up the slack. I get it nice and tight, but after 40 miles or so, the
bear trap is loose the steerer is wobbling in the headtube.

I picked up a Problem Solver compression plug at the LBS. I'll put it on for
the weekend and see how it works.

Sorry, but you wasted your money (at least in terms of solving the
slippage problem). The compression plug / star nut are only there to
adjust the preload prior to clamping the stem down (which is what
holds the system all in place after adjustment).

Come on, you can do better than that. He's using a system now where *that
is not the case*. The 'bear trap' is a set of conical washers which go
*between* the stem and the headset and which expand *after* you've
tightened the stem. If that's failing, then replacing it with a
conventional top cap preload adjustment device might work.

Quoted message said:

If a properly adjusted headset/stem comes loose during the ride, it
has nothing to do with the adjuster, but with the stem.

Except in the case of a beartrap, which is always in the system, and thus
can be a problem.

Jasper

Robin Hubert said:

Quoted message said:

Oddly, I just installed an Easton EC90 SL fork on my bike three days
ago. (I got the SL because my bike's head tube takes 1" steerers, and
the SLX is only available in 1.125"😉. Though my fork included
instructions for both a steerer plug and the beartrap device, only the
beartrap device was included.

I agree with Peter--the beartrap device is a little daffy. I don't know
why Easton switched to it from the plug. The beartrap looks and feels
fairly kudgy, and I just couldn't bear it (no pun intended). I ended up
just ordering the Problem Solvers compression plug, and I've been very
happy with it.

This "bear trap" device ... I don't see it on Easton's web site. Is it
this thing on the fork installation pdf?
http://www.eastonbike.com/downloadable_files/instal_instr/fork-EN.pdf

Quoted message said:

For what it's worth, I'm using a 3T Less XL stem (120 mm), which
includes an aluminum 1"-1.125" shim, and I haven't had any problems
with the stem slipping. The torque spec on the two clamping bolts is 9
n-m, I believe.

For what it's worth, I like the plug more than the beartrap from an
engineering perspective. The plug applies an internal pressure, which
partially counteracts the external pressure from tightening the stem
around the steerer. The pressures are almost certainly not equal and
opposite, but they're a lot closer than they would be without the
internal plug.

Let us know if your new plug helps.

Jason

Robin Hubert

Having an expansion plug does two things. As mentioned, expands the
steerer a wee bit and also does hold the stem 'down' a wee bit that may
help the stem slipping up the steerer. The Easton thing is a widget
that expands on the outside of the steerer, under the stem, to adjust
the HS. Poor design, IMO and we replace many with conventional
expanders.

Qui si parla Campagnolo said:

Robin Hubert said:

Quoted message said:

Oddly, I just installed an Easton EC90 SL fork on my bike three days
ago. (I got the SL because my bike's head tube takes 1" steerers, and
the SLX is only available in 1.125"😉. Though my fork included
instructions for both a steerer plug and the beartrap device, only the
beartrap device was included.

I agree with Peter--the beartrap device is a little daffy. I don't know
why Easton switched to it from the plug. The beartrap looks and feels
fairly kudgy, and I just couldn't bear it (no pun intended). I ended up
just ordering the Problem Solvers compression plug, and I've been very
happy with it.

This "bear trap" device ... I don't see it on Easton's web site. Is it
this thing on the fork installation pdf?
http://www.eastonbike.com/downloadable_files/instal_instr/fork-EN.pdf

Quoted message said:

For what it's worth, I'm using a 3T Less XL stem (120 mm), which
includes an aluminum 1"-1.125" shim, and I haven't had any problems
with the stem slipping. The torque spec on the two clamping bolts is 9
n-m, I believe.

For what it's worth, I like the plug more than the beartrap from an
engineering perspective. The plug applies an internal pressure, which
partially counteracts the external pressure from tightening the stem
around the steerer. The pressures are almost certainly not equal and
opposite, but they're a lot closer than they would be without the
internal plug.

Let us know if your new plug helps.

Jason

Robin Hubert

Having an expansion plug does two things. As mentioned, expands the
steerer a wee bit and also does hold the stem 'down' a wee bit that may
help the stem slipping up the steerer. The Easton thing is a widget
that expands on the outside of the steerer, under the stem, to adjust
the HS. Poor design, IMO and we replace many with conventional
expanders.

The Time and Easton thing looks to be identical to the USE Ring-Go-Star
device.

http://www.performancebike.com/shop/Profile.cfm?SKU=18850&item=50-2617&slitrk=search&slisearch=true

Quoted message said:

For those of you curious about the beartrap mechanism, Time uses a part
that is functionally identical to the Easton part we've been
discussing:

http://harriscyclery.net/page.cfm?PageID=49&action=details&sku=FK4440

If both Time and Easton are using this part instead of a compression
plug, I'd love to know what it is.

$50!!!??!!! Wow! An compression plug is only $25.

After looking at a some of the other options it appears that QBP (under
the Problem Solvers brand) offers a similar device for $22.

http://harriscyclery.net/page.cfm?PageID=49&action=details&sku=HD9970

--
Greg Estep

"Greg Estep" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

For those of you curious about the beartrap mechanism, Time uses a part
that is functionally identical to the Easton part we've been
discussing:

http://harriscyclery.net/page.cfm?PageID=49&action=details&sku=FK4440

If both Time and Easton are using this part instead of a compression
plug, I'd love to know what it is.

$50!!!??!!! Wow! An compression plug is only $25.

After looking at a some of the other options it appears that QBP (under
the Problem Solvers brand) offers a similar device for $22.

http://harriscyclery.net/page.cfm?PageID=49&action=details&sku=HD9970

--
Greg Estep

That's what I got Friday night from my LBS for $15. I installed it and round
over 100 miles this weekend. The stem is as tight as when I put it on.
Anyone want an Easton bear trap?

"Robin Hubert" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Oddly, I just installed an Easton EC90 SL fork on my bike three days
ago. (I got the SL because my bike's head tube takes 1" steerers, and
the SLX is only available in 1.125"😉. Though my fork included
instructions for both a steerer plug and the beartrap device, only the
beartrap device was included.

I agree with Peter--the beartrap device is a little daffy. I don't know
why Easton switched to it from the plug. The beartrap looks and feels
fairly kudgy, and I just couldn't bear it (no pun intended). I ended up
just ordering the Problem Solvers compression plug, and I've been very
happy with it.

This "bear trap" device ... I don't see it on Easton's web site. Is it
this thing on the fork installation pdf?
http://www.eastonbike.com/downloadable_files/instal_instr/fork-EN.pdf

No, that's their standard form install instructions with a compression
device. Here are the instructions for the bear trap.

http://www.eastonbike.com/downloadable_files/instal_instr/beartrap-EN.pdf