stock vs. custom frames

Tim McNamara said:

Many if not most people are sold bikes that are too small
for them. Racers may find this a benefit as it allows the
bars to be lower (although I am skeptical about the real-
world benefits of this).

This is true. Besides looking at seat tube and top tube
lengths, look at head tube lengths too. The top of a head
tube can vary by a couple of cm, a big difference in
adjusting stem heights. Some bikes with tall head tubes
include Lemond and Pinarello, as well as the extended head
tube options from Waterford, Gunnar, etc.

Note that Lance Armstrong rides a 58cm Trek, which is pretty
standard for a 5'10" guy. And his bars don't look
particularly low.

Matt O.

"Matt O'Toole" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Tim McNamara wrote:

Note that Lance Armstrong rides a 58cm Trek, which is
pretty standard for

a

Quoted message said:

5'10" guy. And his bars don't look particularly low.

Actually, on a recent "Road to the Tour" (OLN, 9 or 9:30pm
Thurs, pst), Lance stated that his stem has been getting
HIGHER the older he gets....

In article <[email hidden]>,

Tim McNamara said:

Quoted message said:

They also noticed that with the long seatpost and stem,
my bike was flexing really badly, to the point that they
said if I keep riding it stuff will start breaking.

Like what? I think this is malarkey.

I think they were looking at my long handlebar stem and
saddle rails. My stem sticks up about 5" and my seat is
shoved all the way back, leaving a lot of unsupported rail.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I asked if that meant I should avoid a steel frame, they
said no, a correctly sized steel frame should be much
stiffer than my current bike.

The issue is comfort not stiffness.

Comfort is definitely my first priority. High on my list of
bikes to try is a 2003 Zurich, since it is the same geometry
as my current bike.

I'll also try a 2004, just for comparison, but I've already
ruled it out since they shortened the wheelbase and it looks
like it is limited to 23mm tires.

Quoted message said:

You might want to do a little more reading about the
effects of frame material on how a bike rides. The short
answer is that it has little to no difference. The main
difference is from frame design, specifically the relation
of the axle centers to your butt. The more the wheel is
underneath you, the more the bike will feel harsh; the
more the wheel is away from you, the more it will feel
"compliant" Tire size and inflation pessure has an even
bigger affect on ride quality. If you want to try a great
ride, slap some Avocet 25's on any bike they'll fit,
inflated to 100 to 110 psi (actually, any 25 mm tires will
do but the Avocets are one of the best).

As far as stiffness, this is another triumph of marketing
over reality. Any quality modern nike is going to be stiff
enough. Worry more about the ride quality than the
stiffness.

I've read that the materials don't matter here a lot. I do
agree that design/geometry is a lot more significant, but
I'm not ready to agree that materials is irrelevant.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

So now I guess I will start test riding bikes, looking
for a stiff yet compliant ride. I asked about carbon
bikes, but was told if I didn't like the harsh aluminium
ride, I probably wouldn't like carbon either.

More marketing codswallop. A different sales person will
tell you that carbon finger frames can have the fibers
oriented to provide the ultimate in stiff but compliant
bike frames. It's all [censored]. Buy a frame that fits you
so that you are comfortable all day long on it, and one
that you like the handling characteristics.

I will certainly test ride a carbon bike and decide for
myself if I like it or not.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

The bike shop also does Waterford custom bikes, so if I
can't find something I like I can always go that route.

The Gunnars are made by Waterford and are an excellent
deal. I have a CrossHairs that is very well made and a
nice bike to ride- I raced 'cross on it, took it to the
Alps and rode last year's brevets and PBP on it. I'd
also point you to Kogswell (www.kogswell.com) who are
turning out very classy lugged steel frames at excellent
prices- this year's version is particularly well done.
And also Herons are excellent bikes:
www.heronbicycles.com. And finally, the titanium option
from Habanero (www.habcycles.com I think). All four of
these options (Gunnar, Heron, Kogswell and Habanero) are
excellent values.

My first choice would be a stock frame, since it seems like
a big gamble to build a bike you've never ridden. How do you
know a custom bike is going to be better than one of the
many you've tested? Thanks for those suggestions, if I
decided to go custom I'll look into those also.

Thanks.

"Matt O'Toole" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Tim McNamara said:

I've never understood the attraction for short
chainstays. The bike handles badly in turns, the rear
tire wears out more quickly, the ride is less
comfortable, chainline problems are worse, and there's
no benefit whatsoever. A peculiar trend altogether.

Indeed.

I think it started as a track trend, the idea being it
allowed teammates to draft closer. But then some
knucklehead decided it was applicable to road racing too.
Since then, short chainstays have been symbolic of "racy,"
the shorter the racier. Cannondale even made bikes with
cantilevered dropouts for awhile, so the seatstays would
look steeper and the chainstays shorter, for the ultimate
racy appearance.

I believe the "Flying Gate" dates from 1936. Designed to
allow ultra-short chainstays...

members.aol.comgallery2.htmOpen ↗

LGF

I'd suggest finding a stock bike that fits and riding it
awhile before going custom. Unless you have a really odd
body shape, as a man, you can find a dozen or two dozen
stock bikes to fit you. I think you really need to know your
correct bike size before exploring custom frames, unless you
really have an odd body shape. Just because a frame builder
knows a lot about welding, brazing, metal work, etc. is no
guarantee they know anything about fitting people to
bicycles. You need a well fitting bike to know if the
numbers a custom builder gives you sound reasonable. Kind of
a Catch-22.

AT 6'2" you probably fit a 60-62 cm frame. Give or take a
little bit. Go find some at the various bike shops in your
town and take them for extended rides. 20 miles or so. Think
about how they fit compared to your current bike. After 4
years of riding you do know something about how a bike fits
you. At least what does not fit. Use this information when
selecting a new bike. Try to get the bikes well setup before
the test ride. Seat height, seat setback, handlebar height,
stem length, your pedals fitted.

Aluminum, steel, carbon, titanium, etc. does not matter for
sizing purposes. You are still figuring out frame size. Once
you find a bike or two that seems to fit you best, then you
can use the numbers from these frames to determine which
other bikes should fit you. Then you can decide what
material your bike will be made of.

Mark Heiple <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<markh-
[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

I've been riding a 2000 Lemond Tourmalet (Reynolds 525
frame, 57cm) now for about 4 years and been thinking of
upgrading.

To make a long story short, when I first got the bike, I
was ignorant about how it was supposed to fit. I went to
the wrong bike shop, who was more interested selling bikes
then making sure I got what I needed. I'm convinced now
that my frame is too small, so now I'm looking around for
new one. I've tried installing longer seat posts and
stems, but I don't think it is quite right.

I think my first step is to find a bike shop with a fit
kit, take my bike with me, and figure out if it really is
a problem.

If it isn't right, my first choice would be to look at
another lemond. I really like the way the lemond handles,
but their bikes have changed. The new frames are
steel/carbon or ti/carbon, and I hesitant to trust a
version 1.0 design. Anyone know how they are holding up?

I also noticed their geometry isn't the same - the
chainstays (and therefor wheelbase) are shorter. How much
would this affect the handling? I've tried short, compact
frames before (Giant) and didn't like it - very squirrely.
Do the short stays restrict my tire size choice? Right now
I'm running GP 3000, 25c.

Lemond still has the old steel frames available as custom
bikes, but it's so expensive it's worth considering going
custom (Waterford, Serotta, etc) instead.

I know I need to go out and start test riding bikes again,
but how does one test ride a custom bike when there aren't
any in your area and a frame built to your measurements
doesn't exist? Seems like an expensive gamble to build a
bike that you have never ridden.

I'm a lot more comfortable riding now compared to 4 years
ago, so maybe I don't need the extra stability of the
lemond any more.

I'm 6'2", 225 lbs. I think have long legs & arms, short
torso for people my size. I don't race and never will. I
have my handlebars set about 1.5" below my saddle. I don't
really need nor want an ultra-light weight weenie bike.
With all he stuff I carry in my saddle bag, my tourmalet
weighs about 26 lbs.

Since my old bike is steel and I really like the ride, I'm
a bit prejudiced toward steel, but I know that as long as
the bike fits, material isn't supposed to matter. I've
been on some fat-tubed aluminum bikes that were really
harsh though. I've never been tried a Ti or carbon bike,
so I guess I should.

Thanks.

Tim McNamara wrote: -snip chainstays-

Quoted message said:

I've never understood the attraction for short chainstays.
The bike handles badly in turns, the rear tire wears out
more quickly, the ride is less comfortable, chainline
problems are worse, and there's no benefit whatsoever. A
peculiar trend altogether.

Agreed. My vote for one of those outlying data points is the
mid-seventies ultra short Schwinn tandem with curved seat
tube. With the front changer at 12:00 there is no triple
changer that will work at all in my experience.

--
Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org Open every day since 1
April, 1971