Strange problem with new chain

On 1 Jul 2005 15:43:15 -0700, "Ken M" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Okay here's the deal, I took the old and worn out chain was 1/16 past
the inch mark. Pretty well worn. And cleaned the wheels on the rear
derailer. After cleaning the factory gunk they put on the chain to
protect it while waiting to be sold, off the chain. Rinseing(sp) with
water. Spaying with wd-40 to diplace the water letting the new chain
dry, I tried the "hot wax" method using paraffin wax. Then let the
chain cool, installed the new chain, using a KMC Missing Link I think
it's called. And then test riding the bike. I noticed that the chain
"skipped" like crazy when I tried to use the 4th and 5th gear! I
thought to myself what did I do wrong?!? I stopped the ride looked it
all over saw no obvious problems. So I thought well maybe the chain was
just assembled a bit on the "tight" side and it just needs to be
"worked" in a bit, so I shifted to 3rd and spun like crazy! Just before
I got back home I tried to use 4th and it was doing the skipping thing
still! So i brought it into the garage and spun the freewheel backwards
and noticed nothing unusual. So then I thought maybe I did something
wrong with the hot wax, I came in checked the website (sheldons) and it
didn't seem like I did anything wrong. So then I got to thinking maybe
my idler / jockey wheels are worn. I went and looked at them. They look
a little worn but I don't think that they are worn enough to cause the
skipping. The freewheel is okay I just cleaned and inspected and lubed
it all about 450-500 miles ago when I replaced the rear wheel. So after
all of that I thought maybe it's just the wax!! So I cleaned what wax I
could off / out of the chain. And went back to my wet lube (2 stroke
engine oil) Just a drop on the center rollers. Took the bike for
another "test" ride. Still skipping under a load! Only does it when
pushing harder than I normally do! So the bike went back into the
workshop. And I went 1 step further and lubed the sideplates of the
chain. And that is where the problem is at! I have not riden the bike
with the lubed sideplates.

Any ideas, comments or suggestions??

Ken

Dear Ken,

The instant skipping with a new chain when you pedal hard in
higher gears suggests that your smaller rear gears are worn
and need to be replaced, even though the tooth wear may not
be obvious at a glance.

Those gears tend to wear faster and skip first.

Carl Fogel

Quoted message said:

And I went 1 step further and lubed the sideplates of the
chain. And that is where the problem is at! I have not riden the bike
with the lubed sideplates.

Any ideas, comments or suggestions??

Ken

Sounds likely that your rear cogs are worn out (4th and 5th gear)... a
new chain will skip on worn cogs under heavy load.

-Ron

Ken M said:

Okay here's the deal, I took the old and worn out chain was 1/16 past
the inch mark. Pretty well worn. And cleaned the wheels on the rear
derailer. After cleaning the factory gunk they put on the chain to
protect it while waiting to be sold

This is a perfectly good lubricant. Bike shops don't do anything to the
chains on new bikes.

, off the chain. Rinseing(sp) with

Quoted message said:

water. Spaying with wd-40 to diplace the water letting the new chain
dry, I tried the "hot wax" method using paraffin wax.

You forgot to wave the dead chicken over it ;-)

Then let the

Quoted message said:

chain cool, installed the new chain, using a KMC Missing Link I think
it's called. And then test riding the bike. I noticed that the chain
"skipped" like crazy when I tried to use the 4th and 5th gear! I
thought to myself what did I do wrong?!? I stopped the ride looked it
all over saw no obvious problems. So I thought well maybe the chain was
just assembled a bit on the "tight" side and it just needs to be
"worked" in a bit, so I shifted to 3rd and spun like crazy! Just before
I got back home I tried to use 4th and it was doing the skipping thing
still! So i brought it into the garage and spun the freewheel backwards
and noticed nothing unusual. So then I thought maybe I did something
wrong with the hot wax, I came in checked the website (sheldons) and it
didn't seem like I did anything wrong. So then I got to thinking maybe
my idler / jockey wheels are worn. I went and looked at them. They look
a little worn but I don't think that they are worn enough to cause the
skipping.

Check the top one doesn't rock out of plane excessively. It should
slide sideways but remain vertical at all times.

The freewheel is okay I just cleaned and inspected and lubed

Quoted message said:

it all about 450-500 miles ago when I replaced the rear wheel.

This is quite hard to do, as the kind of wear you're looking for is
minimal. Chainrings can go really shark-toothed and still work OK (the
state of Jobst's has been the subject of discussion here recently), but
rear sprockets can't.

So after

Quoted message said:

all of that I thought maybe it's just the wax!! So I cleaned what wax I
could off / out of the chain. And went back to my wet lube (2 stroke
engine oil) Just a drop on the center rollers. Took the bike for
another "test" ride. Still skipping under a load! Only does it when
pushing harder than I normally do! So the bike went back into the
workshop. And I went 1 step further and lubed the sideplates of the
chain. And that is where the problem is at! I have not riden the bike
with the lubed sideplates.

Any ideas, comments or suggestions??

Yup. Get a new cassette/freewheel, as the old one has worn to match the
old chain. I had the same problem recently - the chain had gone that
tiny bit too far and the bike was noisy in the most-used 17T sprocket.
Shame Shimano don't sell individual ones :-(

Well I took the suspect freewheel off the wheel, put it next to another
I happened to have and when side by side the wear could easily be seen.
The teeth didn't look that worn but the "valley" between the teeth was
defiantely wider and deeper in on the smaller (higher) gears than on
the lower (larger) cogs. But now I have a better idea what too look for
the next time I inspect a freewheel.

Ken

On 2 Jul 2005 12:41:40 -0700, "Ken M" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Well I took the suspect freewheel off the wheel, put it next to another
I happened to have and when side by side the wear could easily be seen.
The teeth didn't look that worn but the "valley" between the teeth was
defiantely wider and deeper in on the smaller (higher) gears than on
the lower (larger) cogs. But now I have a better idea what too look for
the next time I inspect a freewheel.

Ken

Dear Ken,

Pretty much if you can see wear on small cogs, they'll slip
when you pedal hard.

For some years, I rode an old Schwinn 52-front-sprocket that
ate a Sachs-Aris 12-tooth cog every 3 to 6 months. The edges
of the tooth would mush slightly outward. Once I learned
about this, I never bothered to inspect a cog again--I just
replaced it when the chain began to skip. This led to over a
dozen worn-out 12-tooth gears.

I was pleasantly surprised when I switched to a 53x11
Schwinn that used Shimano cogs--despite being smaller and
more likely to wear, they last two years or more on the same
daily ride.

But I still don't bother to inspect them. If they skip,
they're trash.

Carl Fogel

I knew I was forgetting something! The chicken! Yeah you and Carl were
right on I took the old one off, put it next to a much newer, but still
slightly used one that I had hanging around, and the wear could easily
be seen. Seems to me that having a spare hanging around is a pretty
good idea. From what I have read most of the freewheels and or
cassettes don't have much of a lifespan. Which doesn't really make much
sense seeing as how they are steel. Makes me wonder how much longer
these 5 sp freewheels will be available!

Ken

On 2 Jul 2005 15:44:35 -0700, "Ken M" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

I knew I was forgetting something! The chicken! Yeah you and Carl were
right on I took the old one off, put it next to a much newer, but still
slightly used one that I had hanging around, and the wear could easily
be seen. Seems to me that having a spare hanging around is a pretty
good idea. From what I have read most of the freewheels and or
cassettes don't have much of a lifespan. Which doesn't really make much
sense seeing as how they are steel. Makes me wonder how much longer
these 5 sp freewheels will be available!

Ken

Dear Ken,

They'll probably be available for a long time, since bike
shops keep buying them to fix old bikes. Here are a few mail
order places that sell 5-speed freewheels:

http://www.yellowjersey.org/cgi-bin/wsx20/wsx20_02862/main/browse.cgi?final_pick=y&cust_cat=freewheel&cust_cat_max=108&in_store=&cust_id=028620020872&cust_cat_index=13&pick_flag=y&setup_value=1&cleanup=n&item_id=783350

http://www.sheldonbrown.com/harris/freewheels.html#5

http://www.biketoolsetc.com/index.cgi?id=62228738811&d=single&c=Components&sc=Freewheels%20and%20Cassettes&tc=Freewheels&item_id=SU-HG5A

http://www.loosescrews.com/index.cgi?d=single&c=Freewheel&sc=Complete%20Freewheels&tc=Shimano&item_id=SH-Z51428&id=971679431663

http://www.loosescrews.com/index.cgi?d=single&c=Freewheel&sc=Complete%20Freewheels&tc=Custom%20Built&item_id=LS-CFW513&id=971679431663

Carl Fogel

Well that is true, they are still pretty commonly available. And they
are still being used on some new x-mart bikes. Like this one:
http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.gsp?product_id=2073249&cat=5304&type=5&dept=4125&path=0%3A4125%3A4178%3A61904%3A5304#long_descr

So you are probably right about being around for some time to come.

Ken