strange wheels?!?

Ken Marcet said:

I have this 20 inch wheel on the front of my recumbent, and to my surprise
it has ball bearings but they are not in a cage but just kind of sit in the
race. And I have tried to put a regular bearing in there but they do not fit
properly. Has any seen a hub like this? I think this must be a very cheaply
made hub.

Ken

Uncaged balls are not necessarily the sign of a cheap hub. In fact the
opposite is often true. Depending on the overall geometry of the whole
hub, it is sometimes possible to get one more bearing ball into the race if
loose bearings are used instead of caged bearings.

Ken Marcet said:

I have this 20 inch wheel on the front of my recumbent, and to my

surprise

Quoted message said:

it has ball bearings but they are not in a cage but just kind of sit

in the

Quoted message said:

race. And I have tried to put a regular bearing in there but they do

not fit

Quoted message said:

properly. Has any seen a hub like this? I think this must be a very

cheaply

Quoted message said:

made hub.

Ken

The opposite is true: caged ball bearings are the sign of a cheap hub,
while loose bearings are generally found on more expensive hubs. In
either case, disassembling them, cleaning, regreasing, and properly
adjusting will do wonders for their durability.

This ignores "sealed" cartridge bearings, of course. These have been
discussed often enough in here, so I'll let you search for previous
postings.

Jeff

Ken Marcet said:

I have this 20 inch wheel on the front of my recumbent, and to my surprise
it has ball bearings but they are not in a cage but just kind of sit in the
race. And I have tried to put a regular bearing in there but they do not fit
properly. Has any seen a hub like this? I think this must be a very cheaply
made hub.

Google for "clue." Maybe you can find one and get it overnighted.

Ron

The regular bearing was one in a cage! And it didn't seat properly.

Ken

"RonSonic" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

A Muzi said:

Ken Marcet said:

I have this 20 inch wheel on the front of my recumbent, and to my

surprise

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

it has ball bearings but they are not in a cage but just kind of sit in

the

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

race. And I have tried to put a regular bearing in there but they do

not fit

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

properly. Has any seen a hub like this? I think this must be a very

cheaply

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

made hub.

That's the standard design for bicycles, front hubs with
ball retainers being generally on the cheap side of the
business ( with exceptions of course).

There's no inherence. Although most medium to high quality
front hubs have loose balls, Wald steel fronts and
Campagnolo Record both have retainers.

See if you have ten on each side, clean out any dirt or
contamination and lay the balls in a line of fresh clean
grease -enough to fill the space to the depth of the
bearing. (Excess grease will harmlessly squirt out on your
first ride).

More common problems include assembly with a ball out of
place ( assembling in grease helps that) and improper
adjustment.

OUr FAQ is good for this:
http://draco.acs.uci.edu/rbfaq/FAQ/index.html

be sure to lock your bearing adjustment so it remains
properly adjusted with a slight preload.

Okay, Andy. If he was serious then what in the name of Tullio was that

"regular

Quoted message said:

bearing" he was trying to fit in there?

Ron

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Ken Marcet wrote:
>I have this 20 inch wheel on the front of my recumbent, and to my

surprise

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

>it has ball bearings but they are not in a cage but just kind of sit in

the

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

>race. And I have tried to put a regular bearing in there but they do

not fit

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

>properly. Has any seen a hub like this? I think this must be a very

cheaply

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

>made hub.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

On Fri, 18 Feb 2005 20:45:47 -0600, A Muzi

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

That's the standard design for bicycles, front hubs with
ball retainers being generally on the cheap side of the
business ( with exceptions of course).

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

There's no inherence. Although most medium to high quality
front hubs have loose balls, Wald steel fronts and
Campagnolo Record both have retainers.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

See if you have ten on each side, clean out any dirt or
contamination and lay the balls in a line of fresh clean
grease -enough to fill the space to the depth of the
bearing. (Excess grease will harmlessly squirt out on your
first ride).

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

More common problems include assembly with a ball out of
place ( assembling in grease helps that) and improper
adjustment.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

OUr FAQ is good for this:
http://draco.acs.uci.edu/rbfaq/FAQ/index.html

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

be sure to lock your bearing adjustment so it remains
properly adjusted with a slight preload.

Quoted message said:

"RonSonic" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Okay, Andy. If he was serious then what in the name of Tullio was that

"regular

Quoted message said:

bearing" he was trying to fit in there?

Ken Marcet said:

The regular bearing was one in a cage! And it didn't seat

properly.

For front hub retainers, we have a half dozen models, There
are probably more. I don't seek them out as a rebuild is
more expensive than a new wheel in many cases. Designers
had various things in mind when they made all the older
varied front hubs. Gone are hub oilers, 'heavy duty' models,
felt seals, etc. Now they seem to be more uniform, 10x10
3/16 balls mostly.

As I wrote earlier, just rebuild with clean grease, new
balls and be done with it.
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

Ken Marcet said:

The regular bearing was one in a cage! And it didn't seat properly.

Wow. Okay.

Any bike shop will stock the loose balls you want. Bring a sample to be sure of
size. The usual drill is to fill the race with grease, lay in as many balls as
possible and then remove one for clearance. You'll want extras anyway. If you've
got a spare then none of them will successfully escape. On the other hand if you
don't get a spare then one will roll somewhere unreachable to leave you short.

There is controversy about what is the best grease. I like a nice white lithium.

Good luck.

Ron

Quoted message said:

"RonSonic" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

A Muzi said:

Ken Marcet wrote:
> I have this 20 inch wheel on the front of my recumbent, and to my

surprise

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> it has ball bearings but they are not in a cage but just kind of sit in

the

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> race. And I have tried to put a regular bearing in there but they do

not fit

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> properly. Has any seen a hub like this? I think this must be a very

cheaply

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> made hub.

That's the standard design for bicycles, front hubs with
ball retainers being generally on the cheap side of the
business ( with exceptions of course).

There's no inherence. Although most medium to high quality
front hubs have loose balls, Wald steel fronts and
Campagnolo Record both have retainers.

See if you have ten on each side, clean out any dirt or
contamination and lay the balls in a line of fresh clean
grease -enough to fill the space to the depth of the
bearing. (Excess grease will harmlessly squirt out on your
first ride).

More common problems include assembly with a ball out of
place ( assembling in grease helps that) and improper
adjustment.

OUr FAQ is good for this:
http://draco.acs.uci.edu/rbfaq/FAQ/index.html

be sure to lock your bearing adjustment so it remains
properly adjusted with a slight preload.

Okay, Andy. If he was serious then what in the name of Tullio was that

"regular

Quoted message said:

bearing" he was trying to fit in there?

Ron

"A Muzi" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

>Ken Marcet wrote:
>>I have this 20 inch wheel on the front of my recumbent, and to my

surprise

Quoted message said:

>>it has ball bearings but they are not in a cage but just kind of sit

in

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

the

Quoted message said:

>>race. And I have tried to put a regular bearing in there but they do

not fit

Quoted message said:

>>properly. Has any seen a hub like this? I think this must be a very

cheaply

Quoted message said:

>>made hub.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

On Fri, 18 Feb 2005 20:45:47 -0600, A Muzi

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

>That's the standard design for bicycles, front hubs with
>ball retainers being generally on the cheap side of the
>business ( with exceptions of course).

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

>There's no inherence. Although most medium to high quality
>front hubs have loose balls, Wald steel fronts and
>Campagnolo Record both have retainers.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

>See if you have ten on each side, clean out any dirt or
>contamination and lay the balls in a line of fresh clean
>grease -enough to fill the space to the depth of the
>bearing. (Excess grease will harmlessly squirt out on your
>first ride).

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

>More common problems include assembly with a ball out of
>place ( assembling in grease helps that) and improper
>adjustment.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

>OUr FAQ is good for this:
>http://draco.acs.uci.edu/rbfaq/FAQ/index.html

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

>be sure to lock your bearing adjustment so it remains
>properly adjusted with a slight preload.

Quoted message said:

"RonSonic" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Okay, Andy. If he was serious then what in the name of Tullio was that

"regular

Quoted message said:

bearing" he was trying to fit in there?

Ken Marcet said:

The regular bearing was one in a cage! And it didn't seat

properly.

For front hub retainers, we have a half dozen models, There
are probably more. I don't seek them out as a rebuild is
more expensive than a new wheel in many cases. Designers
had various things in mind when they made all the older
varied front hubs. Gone are hub oilers, 'heavy duty' models,
felt seals, etc. Now they seem to be more uniform, 10x10
3/16 balls mostly.

As I wrote earlier, just rebuild with clean grease, new
balls and be done with it.
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

Yeah that is exactly what I did, just made sure I had the right number of
bb's in there, cleaned the whole thing up and reassembled with a nice
lithium grease.

Ken

Doesn't lithium grease degrade rubber seals in bearings that have
them?

hhu said:

Doesn't lithium grease degrade rubber seals in bearings that have
them?

What bearing has a rubber seal?

Almost always Viton or some similar synthetic material
impervious to oil.

A seal can only work if it's wet - with either oil or water
or coolant or whatever - - so making a bearing seal out of
rubber seems silly if the maker intended grease or oil in
the bearing!

Moreover, much stuff that's commonly called 'rubber' isn't
natural rubber at all - latex being unfriendly with oil.
Modern 'rubber' pieces are likely to be butyl or Viton or
some such and so impervious for most purposes.
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Fri, 18 Feb 2005 13:57:13 -0500, "Ken Marcet" <[email hidden]>

may have said:

I have this 20 inch wheel on the front of my recumbent, and to my surprise
it has ball bearings but they are not in a cage but just kind of sit in the
race. And I have tried to put a regular bearing in there but they do not fit
properly. Has any seen a hub like this? I think this must be a very cheaply
made hub.

It's the most common design of hub bearing on bicycles. Cages are
much less common than loose-ball.

--
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