Stretching/Strengthening the Calf

SlowRunner said:

I've been trying to restart running again after a ~10-year hiaitus.
In the interim I've done a ton of cycling, so my aerobic conditioning
is good.

I tend to over-pronate my left foot, so my local running shop steered
me toward some high-stability shoes. They've worked pretty well so
far. Unfortunately I have pulled my left calf muscle -- I believe
it's my gastrocnemius -- twice in the last year. The first time, I
stopped running for several weeks to let it heal completely.
(Fortunately the injury did not interfere with cycling.)

I've been careful to stretch before I run, and I've been starting
slowly: 3 mins. easy run + 3 mins. walking for three reps the first
week back (2 sessions per week). That seemed like no workout at all,
but I stayed with small incremental increases. After a month, I was
up to 5 mins. easy run + 2 min. walking (3 reps) when I pulled the
muscle again. So I'm back to other activities while I wait for it to
heal.

Is there something I can do to stretch and strengthen this muscle? I
do straight knee and bent knee stretches for my calves 30 secs at a
time, twice per leg (in addition to hamstring, quad and IT band
stretches). Perhaps I need to do more? Should I stretch after every
running interval?

This is getting frustrating...

- JR

JR,
STOP THE STRETCHING! WTF makes you think that's helping, and every
muscle needs stretching? First STOP IT, and realize you are doing that
bassackwards. Stretch AFTER you warmup, not before.
Stop stretching all together, see what happens. If that fails stretch
aftera mile or two walk to warmup. Your injury is stretch related, not
running related.

Quoted message said:

SlowRunner said:

I've been trying to restart running again after a ~10-year hiaitus.
In the interim I've done a ton of cycling, so my aerobic conditioning
is good.

I tend to over-pronate my left foot, so my local running shop steered
me toward some high-stability shoes. They've worked pretty well so
far. Unfortunately I have pulled my left calf muscle -- I believe
it's my gastrocnemius -- twice in the last year. The first time, I
stopped running for several weeks to let it heal completely.
(Fortunately the injury did not interfere with cycling.)

I've been careful to stretch before I run, and I've been starting
slowly: 3 mins. easy run + 3 mins. walking for three reps the first
week back (2 sessions per week). That seemed like no workout at all,
but I stayed with small incremental increases. After a month, I was
up to 5 mins. easy run + 2 min. walking (3 reps) when I pulled the
muscle again. So I'm back to other activities while I wait for it to
heal.

Is there something I can do to stretch and strengthen this muscle? I
do straight knee and bent knee stretches for my calves 30 secs at a
time, twice per leg (in addition to hamstring, quad and IT band
stretches). Perhaps I need to do more? Should I stretch after every
running interval?

This is getting frustrating...

- JR

JR,
STOP THE STRETCHING! WTF makes you think that's helping, and every
muscle needs stretching? First STOP IT, and realize you are doing that
bassackwards. Stretch AFTER you warmup, not before.
Stop stretching all together, see what happens. If that fails stretch
aftera mile or two walk to warmup. Your injury is stretch related, not
running related.

He's right. The one constant is that you are stretching, and
incorrectly at that.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

SlowRunner said:

I've been trying to restart running again after a ~10-year hiaitus.
In the interim I've done a ton of cycling, so my aerobic conditioning
is good.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I tend to over-pronate my left foot, so my local running shop steered
me toward some high-stability shoes. They've worked pretty well so
far. Unfortunately I have pulled my left calf muscle -- I believe
it's my gastrocnemius -- twice in the last year. The first time, I
stopped running for several weeks to let it heal completely.
(Fortunately the injury did not interfere with cycling.)

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I've been careful to stretch before I run, and I've been starting
slowly: 3 mins. easy run + 3 mins. walking for three reps the first
week back (2 sessions per week). That seemed like no workout at all,
but I stayed with small incremental increases. After a month, I was
up to 5 mins. easy run + 2 min. walking (3 reps) when I pulled the
muscle again. So I'm back to other activities while I wait for it to
heal.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Is there something I can do to stretch and strengthen this muscle? I
do straight knee and bent knee stretches for my calves 30 secs at a
time, twice per leg (in addition to hamstring, quad and IT band
stretches). Perhaps I need to do more? Should I stretch after every
running interval?

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

This is getting frustrating...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

- JR

Quoted message said:

JR,
STOP THE STRETCHING! WTF makes you think that's helping, and every
muscle needs stretching? First STOP IT, and realize you are doing that
bassackwards. Stretch AFTER you warmup, not before.
Stop stretching all together, see what happens. If that fails stretch
aftera mile or two walk to warmup. Your injury is stretch related, not
running related.

He's right. The one constant is that you are stretching, and
incorrectly at that.

I neglected to mention that I do warm up before I stretch, though
perhaps not enough -- I run on an indoor track that's about a mile
from my office, so I walk briskly over there to break a sweat. If
that's not enough, I can always walk another mile on the track or hit
the exercise bike for ~10 minutes.

As for whether I'm stretching correctly, ~20 years ago I took karate
lessons that required a great deal of stretching. The technique I was
taught was to go until I felt gentle tension on the muscle(s), then
hold it for ~30 seconds. Perhaps this is no longer considered
correct?

- JR

SlowRunner said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

On Oct 29, 11:54 am, SlowRunner <[email hidden]> wrote:
> I've been trying to restart running again after a ~10-year hiaitus.
> In the interim I've done a ton of cycling, so my aerobic conditioning
> is good.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> I tend to over-pronate my left foot, so my local running shop steered
> me toward some high-stability shoes. They've worked pretty well so
> far. Unfortunately I have pulled my left calf muscle -- I believe
> it's my gastrocnemius -- twice in the last year. The first time, I
> stopped running for several weeks to let it heal completely.
> (Fortunately the injury did not interfere with cycling.)

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> I've been careful to stretch before I run, and I've been starting
> slowly: 3 mins. easy run + 3 mins. walking for three reps the first
> week back (2 sessions per week). That seemed like no workout at all,
> but I stayed with small incremental increases. After a month, I was
> up to 5 mins. easy run + 2 min. walking (3 reps) when I pulled the
> muscle again. So I'm back to other activities while I wait for it to
> heal.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> Is there something I can do to stretch and strengthen this muscle? I
> do straight knee and bent knee stretches for my calves 30 secs at a
> time, twice per leg (in addition to hamstring, quad and IT band
> stretches). Perhaps I need to do more? Should I stretch after every
> running interval?

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> This is getting frustrating...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> - JR

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

JR,
STOP THE STRETCHING! WTF makes you think that's helping, and every
muscle needs stretching? First STOP IT, and realize you are doing that
bassackwards. Stretch AFTER you warmup, not before.
Stop stretching all together, see what happens. If that fails stretch
aftera mile or two walk to warmup. Your injury is stretch related, not
running related.

Quoted message said:

He's right. The one constant is that you are stretching, and
incorrectly at that.

I neglected to mention that I do warm up before I stretch, though
perhaps not enough -- I run on an indoor track that's about a mile
from my office, so I walk briskly over there to break a sweat. If
that's not enough, I can always walk another mile on the track or hit
the exercise bike for ~10 minutes.

I prefer 2 to 4 miles of walking, but I do warmup slowly.

Quoted message said:

As for whether I'm stretching correctly, ~20 years ago I took karate
lessons that required a great deal of stretching.

I could kick your ass, easily LOL

Quoted message said:

The technique I was
taught was to go until I felt gentle tension on the muscle(s), then
hold it for ~30 seconds. Perhaps this is no longer considered
correct?

Well I read a minimum of 40 seconds, and it's about at that point I
feel the stretch take. However WHICH stretching exercises you are
doing could be wrong. Consider that perhaps like myself, stretching is
simply a recipe for injury. I was injured on a regular basis, so after
years of of inurys I stopped stretching, and was injury free for over
a 20 year period. You maybe in the nimority like me.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

As for whether I'm stretching correctly, ~20 years ago I took karate
lessons that required a great deal of stretching.

I could kick your ass, easily LOL

You poor little thing.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

The technique I was
taught was to go until I felt gentle tension on the muscle(s), then
hold it for ~30 seconds. Perhaps this is no longer considered
correct?

Well I read a minimum of 40 seconds, and it's about at that point I
feel the stretch take. However WHICH stretching exercises you are
doing could be wrong. Consider that perhaps like myself, stretching is
simply a recipe for injury. I was injured on a regular basis, so after
years of of inurys I stopped stretching, and was injury free for over
a 20 year period. You maybe in the nimority like me.

Sounds feasible and it's easy enough to try. I wonder if there's
research that supports this?

- JR

Tried to answer my own question -- it appears this issue is still very
much up in the air...

http://bjsm.bmj.com/cgi/content/abstract/41/4/224
acsm-msse.orgabstract.00005768 200703000 00013.htm;jsessionid=Hmnbq5tmfV6by9vYXcxM1rrwwmxW1gm6lx5Jd65WBDvmZ1fl1L4Open ↗
sportsmedicine.adisonline.comabstract.00007256 200434070 00003.htm;jsessionid=HmtCt5dxtZcpNp8LJ410MWkqzGjQcJqW7JM9cQsLtNvw8tWJ1sXOpen ↗

- JR

SlowRunner said:

Tried to answer my own question -- it appears this issue is still very
much up in the air...

http://bjsm.bmj.com/cgi/content/abstract/41/4/224http://www.acsm-msse.org/pt/re/msse/abstract.00005768-200703000-00013...http://sportsmedicine.adisonline.com/pt/re/spo/abstract.00007256-2004...

- JR

Well the more recent studys indicate stretching is not beneficial, and
may in fact be harmful (as it is with me). But one thing everyone
pretty much agrees on is, that a good warmup is much better than
stretching. I'd try a couple months of no stretching, then come back
and report.

After I received advice here not to stretch before running, I thought
I'd report back. Monday I did ~10 minutes' brisk walking to the gym,
plus 10 minutes on a stationary bike as a warmup. Then I went over to
the track.

I did 6 very easy minutes and felt OK, walked for 3 minutes, then
started up slowly again. After ~30 seconds, I pulled the calf
muscle. Fortunately I recognized what was happening quickly, so I was
able to stop before the injury got too bad.

So far I've seen no difference between stretching and not stretching.
Prior to all this I was up to 5-minute intervals with 1 minute walking
in between (3 intervals per workout). I think I'm going to back off
to 3 minutes on/3 minutes off, which is what I was doing back in
August, and just keep doing that until January.

- JR

SlowRunner:

Quoted message said:

So far I've seen no difference between stretching and not stretching.

You can find tons of discussion on this topic via google groups.
Here's a recap of my personal formula.

prerun: massage hams/quads/calves with "The Stick"
prerun: light dynamic stretches: half-assed approximation of Whartons'
"active isolated stretching" (see http://www.whartonperformance.com/index2.html
- I have no experience with their full program but they're highly
regarded)

run: warm up by starting a bit slow

postrun: static stretches. Generally 50-60 seconds - most of my
muscles seem to relax into a fuller stretch at around 40-50 sec.

Some recent data implies pre-exercise *static* stretching is no good.
But after exercise, with the body fully warmed up, it helps me.

Many cite injury-reducing benefits of strengthening but I've never
been motivated to do much of that, outside of running hills, strides,
and fast repeats.

Also: some of us are affected by the heels on our street shoes, the
ones we're wearing 20 times more than our running shoes. If yours
have significant heels consider something flatter to let your muscles
stretch more. I really feel the difference on runs if I've been
wearing standard 1" heel loafers that day vs.others with lower, zero
(e.g. Birkenstocks), or "negative" (Earth shoes) heel lift.

On Nov 14, 12:03 pm, Charlie Pendejo <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

SlowRunner:

Quoted message said:

So far I've seen no difference between stretching and not stretching.

You can find tons of discussion on this topic via google groups.
Here's a recap of my personal formula.

prerun: massage hams/quads/calves with "The Stick"
prerun: light dynamic stretches: half-assed approximation of Whartons'
"active isolated stretching" (seehttp://www.whartonperformance.com/index2.html
- I have no experience with their full program but they're highly
regarded)

run: warm up by starting a bit slow

postrun: static stretches. Generally 50-60 seconds - most of my
muscles seem to relax into a fuller stretch at around 40-50 sec.

Some recent data implies pre-exercise *static* stretching is no good.
But after exercise, with the body fully warmed up, it helps me.

Many cite injury-reducing benefits of strengthening but I've never
been motivated to do much of that, outside of running hills, strides,
and fast repeats.

Also: some of us are affected by the heels on our street shoes, the
ones we're wearing 20 times more than our running shoes. If yours
have significant heels consider something flatter to let your muscles
stretch more. I really feel the difference on runs if I've been
wearing standard 1" heel loafers that day vs.others with lower, zero
(e.g. Birkenstocks), or "negative" (Earth shoes) heel lift.

Thanks -- it's nice to have options. My street shoes don't have
heels, so I'm good there. But I may try the massage after I warm up.

-JR

On Thu, 15 Nov 2007 15:01:17 -0800 (PST),
[email hidden] wrote in message
news:[email hidden]

Quoted message said:

SlowRunner said:

But I may try the massage after I warm up.

Take my advice and spend the extra 40 bux for a "happy ending", and
you'll really warmup.

--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

SlowRunner said:

But I may try the massage after I warm up.

Take my advice and spend the extra 40 bux for a "happy ending", and
you'll really warmup.

In article <[email hidden]>,

SlowRunner said:

I've been trying to restart running again after a ~10-year hiaitus.
In the interim I've done a ton of cycling, so my aerobic conditioning
is good.

I tend to over-pronate my left foot, so my local running shop steered
me toward some high-stability shoes. They've worked pretty well so
far. Unfortunately I have pulled my left calf muscle -- I believe
it's my gastrocnemius -- twice in the last year. The first time, I
stopped running for several weeks to let it heal completely.
(Fortunately the injury did not interfere with cycling.)

I've been careful to stretch before I run, and I've been starting
slowly: 3 mins. easy run + 3 mins. walking for three reps the first
week back (2 sessions per week). That seemed like no workout at all,
but I stayed with small incremental increases. After a month, I was
up to 5 mins. easy run + 2 min. walking (3 reps) when I pulled the
muscle again. So I'm back to other activities while I wait for it to
heal.

Is there something I can do to stretch and strengthen this muscle? I
do straight knee and bent knee stretches for my calves 30 secs at a
time, twice per leg (in addition to hamstring, quad and IT band
stretches). Perhaps I need to do more? Should I stretch after every
running interval?

This is getting frustrating...

- JR

What I do rather than stretch the calf muscles is to massage them out.

Here is a picture of using a railing to do it. When you massage using
the railing as you go from the bottom of the calf up to the back of the
knee, you'll find knots that you did not know were there.

http://www.mindfulness.com/mindful_running/articles/of_article1.php

Also if you check out Romanov on www.posetech and Dreyer on
Chirunning.com, you'll see that, especially with the work of Romanov,
that there is no push off in running. If you are pushing off then the
push off is a vertical component that doesn't get you moving ahead, just
up. That push stresses the calf muscles.

Also you may want to look at massaging out your shins so that the calf
muscles don't have to work against a contracted antagonist muscle,
anterior tibialis.

In health and on the run,

Ozzie Gontang
[email hidden]
Maintainer - rec.running FAQ
http://www.faqs.org/faqs/by-newsgroup/rec/rec.running.html
Director, San Diego Marathon Clinic, est. 1975

Mindful Running http://www.mindfulness.com/mr.html