Sturmey Archer AB problem

"Rasmus Strand" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Hi,

The problem with my Sturmey Archer AB hub from 1964 is that there is drag
on pedals when free-wheeling. I've found a fault-finding chart
(http://www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~hadland/sa/safaultfind.pdf) that says
it can be a result of five fault. One of these are that "chainstay ends
not parallel". But what is "chainstay ends"? (English is not my first
language).

Chainstay Ends are often called dropouts. They are the parts of the frame
where the hub bolts onto the frame

Quoted message said:

Another fault can be the lubrication.. I have cleaned the hub and oiled it
with a PTFE-spray, and used PTFE-grease on ball rings. Is this totally
wrong?

Sturmy wants you to use light machine oil in the hub. PTFE spray probably
won't cause this problem but it won't protect the hub from wear and offer
any internal crud an easy way out of the hub like a teaspoon of oil once
every few hunderd miles will.

Quoted message said:

I don't think my problem can be a result of any of the other faults
mentioned.

Have anyone any other ideas on what the problem is?

Regards,
Rasmus

In my expierence Sturmy drivetrain drag during freewheeling is commonly the
result of the bearings being adjusted a bit too tight. You may have to
suffer a few mm of play in the rim to get the bearings loose enough to
freewheel properly.

Dave

Noblesville, IN

Quoted message said:

"Rasmus Strand" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Hi,

The problem with my Sturmey Archer AB hub from 1964 is that there is drag
on pedals when free-wheeling. I've found a fault-finding chart
(http://www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~hadland/sa/safaultfind.pdf) that says
it can be a result of five fault. One of these are that "chainstay ends
not parallel". But what is "chainstay ends"? (English is not my first
language). Another fault can be the lubrication.. I have cleaned the hub
and oiled it with a PTFE-spray, and used PTFE-grease on ball rings. Is
this totally wrong? I don't think my problem can be a result of any of the
other faults mentioned.

Have anyone any other ideas on what the problem is?

Regards,
Rasmus

Most likely it is not resulted from the "chainstay ends not
parallel". First, check if the chain is not tensioned too much. A bit of
slack is what SA hubs like. Second, the hub cones should not be adjusted too
tight. See a quote from Sheldon:
"Cone adjustments must only be made on the left side of the hub. A properly
adjusted 3-speed wheel will have slight play at the rim. If the cone
adjustment is too tight, the pedals will tend to turn forward as the wheel
turns. (This same symptom may result if the chain is too tight.)"
Finally, if any of the above, than it would be time to check your dropouts
if they are paralell.

Cheers,

Tomek Li

Quoted message said:

Most likely it is not resulted from the "chainstay ends not
parallel". First, check if the chain is not tensioned too much. A bit of
slack is what SA hubs like. Second, the hub cones should not be adjusted
too tight. See a quote from Sheldon:
"Cone adjustments must only be made on the left side of the hub. A
properly adjusted 3-speed wheel will have slight play at the rim. If the
cone adjustment is too tight, the pedals will tend to turn forward as the
wheel turns. (This same symptom may result if the chain is too tight.)"
Finally, if any of the above, than it would be time to check your dropouts
if they are paralell.

Thanks,

If I understand you guys right is the chainstay ends/dropouts a part of the
frame, and since my wheel drags the sprocket also when I hold the axle in my
hands and spin the wheel, I guess the problem is inside the hub.

"Cone adjustments must only be made on the left side of the hub"

The left side of the hub? Is that the brake side? I guess that may be a
problem then...

Regards,
Rasmus

3 Oct 2005 18:17:35 +0200 'Rasmus Strand said:

Hi,

The problem with my Sturmey Archer AB hub from 1964 is that there is drag on
pedals when free-wheeling. I've found a fault-finding chart
(http://www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~hadland/sa/safaultfind.pdf) that says it
can be a result of five fault. One of these are that "chainstay ends not
parallel". But what is "chainstay ends"? (English is not my first language).

Chainstay ends are also called dropouts or forkends. Yes, part of the
frame.

Quoted message said:

Another fault can be the lubrication.. I have cleaned the hub and oiled it
with a PTFE-spray, and used PTFE-grease on ball rings. Is this totally
wrong? I don't think my problem can be a result of any of the other faults
mentioned.

The hub needs to have some actual liquid oil in it: not filled, but
about 10 cc or so. Some grease on the bearings is also fine.

Quoted message said:

Have anyone any other ideas on what the problem is?

It is most likely that you have the cones adjusted too tight. Once the
hub is reassembled, you should first tighten up the right cone until
it starts to get tight, and then back it off between 1/4 and 1/2 turn.
There is a special "no turn" washer that will lock it there.

Then adjust the left cone tight enough to eliminate most of the play,
but not so tight that the sprocket drags when you spin the hub.

-
-----------------------------------------------
Jim Adney [email hidden]
Madison, WI 53711 USA
-----------------------------------------------

Rasmus Strand said:

The problem with my Sturmey Archer AB hub from 1964 is that there is drag on
pedals when free-wheeling. I've found a fault-finding chart

It's *usually* a sign that the main hub bearings are too tight. Sturmey
hubs need to have a *leeeetle* bit of play in them, rather than being
totally playfree like other hubs. Also can be a sign of grease on the
freewheel pawls, but I'll assume that's not it given what you mentioned
below. To adjust the bearings, use the left cone on the brake side, there
should be a ring right over the brake plate with 4 notches which will turn
the cone when you turn it. Loosen the left axle nut a turn or so, then
take a punch and hammer (or improvise, it shouldn't destroy a screwdriver
and adjustable wrench used as hammer either) and knock that ring loose a
little bit. That usually fixes it for me. There should be a millimetre or
two of play at the rim.

Quoted message said:

(http://www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~hadland/sa/safaultfind.pdf) that says it
can be a result of five fault. One of these are that "chainstay ends not
parallel". But what is "chainstay ends"? (English is not my first language).

The bits of the frame that the rear hub bolts to, basically. They're not
usually dropouts since they open to the end, and they're not track-ends
either since they're not a track bike (and look different), but it's the
bit of the bike that corresponds to that.

Quoted message said:

Another fault can be the lubrication.. I have cleaned the hub and oiled it
with a PTFE-spray, and used PTFE-grease on ball rings. Is this totally
wrong? I don't think my problem can be a result of any of the other faults
mentioned.

Did you open the hub up? (Older) Sturmeys are designed to be oiled with a
lightweight bicycle oil, start with a lot (the excess will drain out) and
then give it a drop a week or a few drops every few weeks in the oil
nipple. The ball bearings should be greased with bearing grease. I'm
pretty sure they didn't use Teflon in them originally, but if it's a good
grease it shouldn't be a problem.

Jasper

Hi,

Thanks everybody for all hints and tips... so far 🙂

I think I've tried everything now, but I still have the same problem. I even
translated the re-assembly-instructions
(http://www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~hadland/sa/saab.pdf) to norwegian to make
sure I did it right. This time I used 10W-30 motor oil, since it was
recommended on several websites and forums.

The strange thing is that when I hold the axle in my hands, spin the wheel,
and hold back the sprocket with my thumb, the wheel seems to be rotating by
fits and starts (the best description I can give with my limited english). I
get the same problem also when I remove the sprocket dust cap, so the uneven
unwanted friction is not a result of a porr dust cap.

By the way, my driver part seems to have some scratches around in on the
outside of the inner part. Can this be the problem?

Regards,
Rasmus

Rasmus Strand said:

The strange thing is that when I hold the axle in my hands, spin the wheel,
and hold back the sprocket with my thumb, the wheel seems to be rotating by
fits and starts (the best description I can give with my limited english). I
get the same problem also when I remove the sprocket dust cap, so the uneven
unwanted friction is not a result of a porr dust cap.

Yeah, that's just the ratcheting pawls which give a lot less resistance
when they're in the low spot of the ratchet than when in the high spot, as
far as I can tell.

Quoted message said:

By the way, my driver part seems to have some scratches around in on the
outside of the inner part. Can this be the problem?

Not really, the driver only transmits power to the star clutch , on the
sides of the driver 'teeth'.

If it's just a little pedalspinning when the wheel moves, I think that's
almost unavoidable, I've never seen an AB without at least a little (ie,
lift the bike up or have it upside down, spin the cranks by hand
preferably in third gear so the wheel goes Really Fast, then when you
release the pedals they will slowly start turning), but it shouldn't be
excessive (when you're riding it and freewheeling you should not feel
pressure on the pedals to keep turning, and if you lose the pedals for a
few seconds they shouldn't be going fast enough to hurt your shins).

Jasper

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

The strange thing is that when I hold the axle in my hands, spin the
wheel,
and hold back the sprocket with my thumb, the wheel seems to be rotating
by
fits and starts (the best description I can give with my limited english).
I
get the same problem also when I remove the sprocket dust cap, so the
uneven
unwanted friction is not a result of a poor dust cap.

Yeah, that's just the ratcheting pawls which give a lot less resistance
when they're in the low spot of the ratchet than when in the high spot, as
far as I can tell.

Maybe, but it seems more irregular than that.

Actually, I have two old bicycles with Sturmey Archer AB that I'm trying to
restore. After trying to get the one of the back wheels spinning as I want
to for about I week, I tried the other one today, hoping I would be more
lucky this time. But no. Both wheels are almost equally poor. I understand I
must live with a little drag, but I think it's too much at this time.

I'm tempted to give up now. I just can't figure out what the problem is. But
I would really appreciate any suggestions to how I can reduce the drag. So?

Thank you Jasper and everybody else for your help.

Rasmus