Sugar Can Impair Cell-Mediated Immunity

If this claim is true, Americans should be succumbing to infectious
diseases all the time, but that doesn't happen, so something more is at
work here. They have some evidence, but what it means requires
interpretation by someone who has a grasp of a large body of studies
that encompass all aspects of the phenomenon. They do not demonstrate
such a grasp in the study, but instead appear to be fixated on "the
horrors of sugar." I don't doubt that people who drink super-size
sodas all day long are going to have all kinds of "abnormalities," but
you have to correlate it to a disease and there has to be a known
mechanism before you can start thinking of making a scientific
hypothesis. Then again, there's so much shoddy papers pretending to be
"science" these days that most "scientists" probably don't understand
this point.

C.Health wrote:

[snipped]

Thanks for the interesting posts.

This is all consistent with the observations that animals (including
humans) on calorie restriction (which greatly lowers average BG and
usually FBG) do not get sick easily (and recover faster when they do)
even though their white blood cell counts are generally always lower
than normally fed animals.

--Paul Wakfer

MoreLife for the rational - http://morelife.org
Reality based tools for more life in quantity and quality
The Self-Sovereign Individual Project - http://selfsip.org
Rational freedom by self-sovereignty & social contracting

C.Health said:

30% below that of the ten normals). A final point of considerable clinical
interest in that paper was the recording of PI over a 60 hour fast by seven
normal subjects. During this interval, the group's average BG fell from 90
to 75 mg% and its PI rose by 60% (Sanchez 1973). Although neutrophils are
not CMI effector cells, fasting results suggest that anorexia might be a
host defense mechanism in cancer. In the second study, five male dental
students drank 24 ounces of sucrose sweetened cola (66 grams of rCHO) on one
occasion leading to an average PI decrease of 49.8% in 45 minutes as BG rose
from 85 mg% (fasting) to 157 mg%, and 24 ounces of sugar free cola on
another day resulting in no significant change in PI (Ringsdorf 1976).

Interesting article. To bad most of the studies cited in it are pretty
old and are not available on pubmed. Contradictory to the article, in
the study below (the full text of PMID: 4117287) there was no
significant difference between the phagocytic activity of the 100mg/100
ml and the 50mg/100 ml glucose concentrations. Only at very high
glucose concentrations (200mg/100 ml and higher) a decrease in
phagocytic activity was found.

Influence of Glucose Levels on the In Vitro Phagocytosis of Bacteria by
Human Neutrophils

Carel J. van Oss
Department of Microbiology, School of Medicine, State University of New
York at Buffalo, Buffalo, New York

Abstract

A previously developed in vitro method for studying the phagocytosis of
bacteria and particles by human neutrophils was used to investigate the
influence of different glucose levels on phagocytosis. It was found
that high glucose levels (200, 400, and 800 mg of glucose/100 ml)
significantly depressed the phagocytosis of Staphylococcus epidermidis,
S. aureus, and Escherichia coli. At very low glucose levels, a somewhat
decreased phagocytic activity was noted. The strongest phagocytic
activity occurred at glucose concentrations of 50 and 100 mg/100 ml. A
second effect noted at the higher (200, 400 and 800 mg/100 ml) glucose
concentrations was a decreased adhesiveness of the neutrophils to solid
surfaces. The mechanism of the decrease in phagocytosis and in
neutrophil adhesiveness at higher glucose levels is unknown, but it is
not linked to increased osmotic pressures due to the presence of
glucose, as ethanol, at the same and even higher osmolal
concentrations, had no effect on the phagocytosis. These results show
that not only the phagocytic activity of those neutrophils that do
adhere to a solid surface is diminished at higher glucose
concentrations but also that fewer neutrophils adhere to solid surfaces
at higher glucose levels. These two phenomena combined may provide at
least part of the explanation for the well-known decrease in resistance
to bacterial infections of diabetics.

http://www.pubmedcentral.gov/articlerender.fcgi?tool=pubmed&pubmedid=4117287

"Olafur Pall Olafsson" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

C.Health said:

30% below that of the ten normals). A final point of considerable

clinical

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

interest in that paper was the recording of PI over a 60 hour fast by

seven

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

normal subjects. During this interval, the group's average BG fell from

90

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

to 75 mg% and its PI rose by 60% (Sanchez 1973). Although neutrophils

are

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

not CMI effector cells, fasting results suggest that anorexia might be a
host defense mechanism in cancer. In the second study, five male dental
students drank 24 ounces of sucrose sweetened cola (66 grams of rCHO) on

one

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

occasion leading to an average PI decrease of 49.8% in 45 minutes as BG

rose

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

from 85 mg% (fasting) to 157 mg%, and 24 ounces of sugar free cola on
another day resulting in no significant change in PI (Ringsdorf 1976).

Interesting article. To bad most of the studies cited in it are pretty
old and are not available on pubmed. Contradictory to the article, in
the study below (the full text of PMID: 4117287) there was no
significant difference between the phagocytic activity of the 100mg/100
ml and the 50mg/100 ml glucose concentrations. Only at very high
glucose concentrations (200mg/100 ml and higher) a decrease in
phagocytic activity was found.

Influence of Glucose Levels on the In Vitro Phagocytosis of Bacteria by
Human Neutrophils

Carel J. van Oss
Department of Microbiology, School of Medicine, State University of New
York at Buffalo, Buffalo, New York

Abstract

A previously developed in vitro method for studying the phagocytosis of
bacteria and particles by human neutrophils was used to investigate the
influence of different glucose levels on phagocytosis. It was found
that high glucose levels (200, 400, and 800 mg of glucose/100 ml)
significantly depressed the phagocytosis of Staphylococcus epidermidis,
S. aureus, and Escherichia coli. At very low glucose levels, a somewhat
decreased phagocytic activity was noted. The strongest phagocytic
activity occurred at glucose concentrations of 50 and 100 mg/100 ml. A
second effect noted at the higher (200, 400 and 800 mg/100 ml) glucose
concentrations was a decreased adhesiveness of the neutrophils to solid
surfaces. The mechanism of the decrease in phagocytosis and in
neutrophil adhesiveness at higher glucose levels is unknown, but it is
not linked to increased osmotic pressures due to the presence of
glucose, as ethanol, at the same and even higher osmolal
concentrations, had no effect on the phagocytosis. These results show
that not only the phagocytic activity of those neutrophils that do
adhere to a solid surface is diminished at higher glucose
concentrations but also that fewer neutrophils adhere to solid surfaces
at higher glucose levels. These two phenomena combined may provide at
least part of the explanation for the well-known decrease in resistance
to bacterial infections of diabetics.

http://www.pubmedcentral.gov/articlerender.fcgi?tool=pubmed&pubmedid=4117287

Quoted message said:

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the first study that I posted was referring to
the ingestion of 100 gm of different sugars. Your study is referring to
glucose concentrations which means that 100mg/100ml is not the same as
ingesting 100 gram portions of glucose. Therefore it isn't contradicting my
first post. The study I posted was in vivo and the other is referring to
neutriphil adhesiveness to glass. These are very different studies. I still
found your post quite interesting.

C.Health said:

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the first study that I posted was referring to
the ingestion of 100 gm of different sugars. Your study is referring to
glucose concentrations which means that 100mg/100ml is not the same as
ingesting 100 gram portions of glucose. Therefore it isn't contradicting my
first post. The study I posted was in vivo and the other is referring to
neutriphil adhesiveness to glass. These are very different studies. I still
found your post quite interesting.

Hi,

You're right, these are very different studies and not fully
comparable. What I was comparing the study I posted to was this
particular quote from the article you posted:

"A final point of considerable clinical interest in that paper was the
recording of PI over a 60 hour fast by seven normal subjects. During
this interval, the group's average BG fell from 90 to 75 mg% and its PI
rose by 60% (Sanchez 1973). Although neutrophils are not CMI effector
cells, fasting results suggest that anorexia might be a host defense
mechanism in cancer. In the second study, five male dental students
drank 24 ounces of sucrose sweetened cola (66 grams of rCHO) on one
occasion leading to an average PI decrease of 49.8% in 45 minutes as BG
rose from 85 mg% (fasting) to 157 mg%, and 24 ounces of sugar free cola
on another day resulting in no significant change in PI (Ringsdorf
1976)."

Notice the blood glucose levels reported above f.ex. 90 mg% and 75 mg%.
Assuming that by mg% they mean mg/dl this would equal 90mg/dL and
75mg/dL which are typical blood glucose numbers seen in a healthy
human. Since a dL equals 100ml the numbers can be further converted to
90mg/100ml and 75mg/100ml. These numbers can than be compared to the
concentration used in the study I posted. In that study phagocytic
activity was highest at 50 and 100 mg/100ml glucose concentration but
it was lower at 200, 400 and 800 mg/100 ml. What I found interesting
is that in this study the phagocytic activity was not found to be any
lower at 100mg/100ml than at 50mg/100ml, while the article you posted
reported a lower phagocytosis index at 90mg/dL than at 75mg/dL and
lower at 157mg/dL than at 85mg/dL. There are two things that might
explain why the study I posted reported no difference between the 50
and 100mg/100ml concentrations:

1)The study is not comparable to the studies refered to in the article
you posted.
2)The inverse relationship between glucose concentration and phagocytic
activity does not hold at very low glucose concentrations.

I actually think number 2 might be the case here. Phagocytes use
glucose as energy and 50mg/dL glucose is probably a low enough
concentration to cause them to have sub optimal energy resulting in
reduced phagocitic activity.

"C.Health" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:d0LRe.28236$FL1.24810@trnddc09...

Quoted message said:

http://www.second-opinions.co.uk/leukocytic_index.html

I would suggest you try reading about the complications of diabetes and the
dangers of sepsis with ketoacidosis and poor wound healing infections of
wounds in diabetes.

Basic stuff but I guess it's news for some people.

"Robert" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"C.Health" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:d0LRe.28236$FL1.24810@trnddc09...

Quoted message said:

http://www.second-opinions.co.uk/leukocytic_index.html

I would suggest you try reading about the complications of diabetes and

the

Quoted message said:

dangers of sepsis with ketoacidosis and poor wound healing infections of
wounds in diabetes.

Basic stuff but I guess it's news for some people.

You must be referring to his post, not mine, and I agree with you:

From: "montygram" <[email hidden]>
Newsgroups: misc.health.alternative,sci.med.nutrition,sci.life-extension
Sent: Thursday, September 01, 2005 5:40 PM
Subject: Re: Sugar Can Impair Cell-Mediated Immunity

Quoted message said:

If this claim is true, Americans should be succumbing to infectious
diseases all the time, but that doesn't happen, so something more is at
work here. They have some evidence, but what it means requires
interpretation by someone who has a grasp of a large body of studies
that encompass all aspects of the phenomenon. They do not demonstrate
such a grasp in the study, but instead appear to be fixated on "the
horrors of sugar." I don't doubt that people who drink super-size
sodas all day long are going to have all kinds of "abnormalities," but
you have to correlate it to a disease and there has to be a known
mechanism before you can start thinking of making a scientific
hypothesis. Then again, there's so much shoddy papers pretending to be
"science" these days that most "scientists" probably don't understand
this point.

montygram said:

If this claim is true, Americans should be succumbing to infectious
diseases all the time, but that doesn't happen, so something more is at
work here.

Actually they are "succumbing to infectious diseases all the time", in
greater numbers than they need to. What infectious diseases? Colds,
flus, west nile, HIV, infected cuts, ear infections, etc. They may not
all be "succumbing" to them but they suffer more symptoms for longer
periods. Those who have a better nutritional status, especially with
vit C, get fewer infectious diseases or suffer fewer and lesser
symptoms than those who are nutritionally deficient.

TC

Quoted message said:

They have some evidence, but what it means requires
interpretation by someone who has a grasp of a large body of studies
that encompass all aspects of the phenomenon. They do not demonstrate
such a grasp in the study, but instead appear to be fixated on "the
horrors of sugar." I don't doubt that people who drink super-size
sodas all day long are going to have all kinds of "abnormalities," but
you have to correlate it to a disease and there has to be a known
mechanism before you can start thinking of making a scientific
hypothesis. Then again, there's so much shoddy papers pretending to be
"science" these days that most "scientists" probably don't understand
this point.

Vit C does work to prevent cold (and other illnesses)
if you take 8-15 grams aday. but after you got a cold you need much
larger doses, typically 30-50 grams a day in order to lessen the
symptoms and shorten the duration of the cold.
of course the dtudies dont follow thid protocol, therefore this debate
will continue until a proper trial will be conducted.
I tried it on myself a lot of time and it works every time.
see also Dr. klenner and Cathcart articles.
beni.