Suggestions for custom touring bike

GlenB said:

My father offered to buy me a custom bike. I think I'd enjoy a

custom

Quoted message said:

touring bike most. I love cycling, road and mountain, but I don't

ride

Quoted message said:

that much, maybe 1-2x monthly 25-30 miles on the beach bike path on

my

Quoted message said:

1998 Bianchi San Remo, or in the local mountains on my 1994 Bontager
Race-Lite w/ XTR.

I've been touring since I was 17, when I took an AYH group trip in

1973

Quoted message said:

for 1,200 miles over 6 weeks, completley unsupported throught Nova
Scotia and PEI.
My family does love credit card touring. We've ridden 150 miles from
LA- San Diego 7 times and have taken a 10 day credit card tour of the
Netherlands (the best place for biking).

So now maybe I do deserve a $4,000- $5,000 bike! (why not, we all do)

So what bike should I get? I've only had steel bikes. I currently
ride a Bianchi San Remo, with 3x8 chorus set up and bar cons.

Although

Quoted message said:

I'm 200#, I ride on 25- 28c tires, with out any problems.

I initially was leaing towards a Waterford RSE bike. Rivendell

seemed

Quoted message said:

too "retro".
My LBS suggested I look into Seven Cycles. They have steel as well

as

Quoted message said:

Ti, and supposedly they have a great fitting system. The LBS also
suggested IF, Independent Fabrication. I still like the classic look
of the waterford lugged frame, but they don't seem to encourage

custom

Quoted message said:

sizing, although they will if you ask them to. Seven, with their
exensive fitting system seems to encourage it.

Should I stick with a steel fork, or is carbon fiber desireable?

I'm not 100% sure of the components, but I think I'm leaning towards
the brand new Dura Ace 7803 series, with the DA 10 STI and a 3x10
gearing. I could go with ultegra, to save $$, but I heard the DA10

is

Quoted message said:

a better lever and it is my father's money anyway. With shimano, I
can get the long extension brakeset in case I ever want to use wider
tires. From my Bianchi, I found I don't like canti's and regular
levers just don't work out well with V-brakes. Also, I have a thumb
problem and don't like the button on the side of the campy ergo

lever.

Quoted message said:

I know I'm giving up the low gearing of a mountain rig, but I have a
50-40-30 campy setup now, and think I can live with shimano's

52-39-30

Quoted message said:

x 27. Can I some how use a mountain crank set or drive train with

STI

Quoted message said:

levers?

Also,
I don't really know much about what wheels to spec.
In advance, I appriciate your input.

It doesn't sound like you are wanting a loaded touring bike but a
credit card sport touring bike. Difference being a loaded touring bike
is designed to haul many pounds of stuff in panniers and have low gears
under 20 gear inches. Sport touring credit card bike is designed to
haul a large seat bag or rack bag on a rear rack and may not need as
low of gearing. Of course with people using trailers such as the BOB,
I suppose any bike will serve as a loaded touring bike since you don't
have to have any racks or panniers to haul stuff.

Dura Ace triple cranksets use a unique bolt circle for the inner
chainring. 30 teeth is the smallest. Period. Most other road triples
use the standard 74mm bcd inner chainring size and a 24 tooth is the
smallest. Quite a difference. It is possible that Dura Ace will
abandon its current unique inner chainring size and go to the 74mm bcd
standard and allow smaller inner chainrings. Doubtful though.

I would want the possibility of a larger rear cog than 27 on a touring
or sport touring bike. With Shimano 10 speed, 27 is the largest rear
cog size. Combined with the 30 tooth inner ring from Dura Ace, and you
have a low gear of 29.4 gear inches. I like a lot lower gear when
touring.

I have a Waterford 1200 racing bike. Wonderful handling and beautiful
to look at. I think their Adventure Cycling 1900 would make a
wonderful loaded touring bike and their RSE bikes wonderful credit card
touring bikes. As for Waterford offering custom sizing but not
promoting it, its probably for a couple reasons. 1. They use lugs and
lugs are cast for certain angles that fit their standard geometries.
2. Their standard size frames fit the vast majority of people.
Everyone seems to think they are special and need a custom size frame.
If that had any truth to it, there would be even fewer bicyclists than
there are. You mention having several bikes. Are they off the shelf
frames? Have they fit you just fine for many years and miles of
riding?

I've seen Independent Fabrications bikes, Club Racer and Independence,
and a few Seven bicycles. They seemed just fine too. They did not
have lugs though. If I was spending that kind of money on a bike, I'd
want it to look good, as well as ride good. You can easily have both.
Co-Motion also makes sport touring and loaded touring frames. Stock
and custom sizing. No lugs though.

I've toured in the Netherlands. Nothing really bad about it but it was
not my favorite place in Europe. Too flat. And along the coast is
terribly windy. And you are required to use the bike paths. If you
don't know where the bike paths go and are trying to get somewhere,
they can easily take you somewhere else. I prefer to ride the roads I
know are going where I want to go.

GlenB said:

My father offered to buy me a custom bike. I think I'd enjoy a custom
touring bike most. I love cycling, road and mountain, but I don't ride
that much, maybe 1-2x monthly 25-30 miles on the beach bike path on my
1998 Bianchi San Remo, or in the local mountains on my 1994 Bontager
Race-Lite w/ XTR.

I've been touring since I was 17, when I took an AYH group trip in 1973
for 1,200 miles over 6 weeks, completley unsupported throught Nova
Scotia and PEI.
My family does love credit card touring. We've ridden 150 miles from
LA- San Diego 7 times and have taken a 10 day credit card tour of the
Netherlands (the best place for biking).

So now maybe I do deserve a $4,000- $5,000 bike! (why not, we all do)

So what bike should I get? I've only had steel bikes. I currently
ride a Bianchi San Remo, with 3x8 chorus set up and bar cons. Although
I'm 200#, I ride on 25- 28c tires, with out any problems.

I initially was leaing towards a Waterford RSE bike. Rivendell seemed
too "retro".
My LBS suggested I look into Seven Cycles. They have steel as well as
Ti, and supposedly they have a great fitting system. The LBS also
suggested IF, Independent Fabrication. I still like the classic look
of the waterford lugged frame, but they don't seem to encourage custom
sizing, although they will if you ask them to. Seven, with their
exensive fitting system seems to encourage it.

Should I stick with a steel fork, or is carbon fiber desireable?

I'm not 100% sure of the components, but I think I'm leaning towards
the brand new Dura Ace 7803 series, with the DA 10 STI and a 3x10
gearing. I could go with ultegra, to save $$, but I heard the DA10 is
a better lever and it is my father's money anyway. With shimano, I
can get the long extension brakeset in case I ever want to use wider
tires. From my Bianchi, I found I don't like canti's and regular
levers just don't work out well with V-brakes. Also, I have a thumb
problem and don't like the button on the side of the campy ergo lever.

I know I'm giving up the low gearing of a mountain rig, but I have a
50-40-30 campy setup now, and think I can live with shimano's 52-39-30
x 27. Can I some how use a mountain crank set or drive train with STI
levers?

Also,
I don't really know much about what wheels to spec.
In advance, I appriciate your input.

You ride once or twice a month 25-30 miles and you want to spend
4000-5000 dollar on a new bike? You got to be kidding.

Lou, from the Netherlands
--
Posted by news://news.nb.nu

<[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Dura Ace triple cranksets use a unique bolt circle for the inner
chainring. 30 teeth is the smallest. Period. Most other road triples
use the standard 74mm bcd inner chainring size and a 24 tooth is the
smallest. Quite a difference. It is possible that Dura Ace will
abandon its current unique inner chainring size and go to the 74mm bcd
standard and allow smaller inner chainrings. Doubtful though.

Your doubts are correct. I don't read Japanese, but Shimano-Japan website
has pictures of the new DA 10 triple and the crank appears to come with
52/39/30 chainrings with the bcd appearing to be 130/92, the same as DA 9.
Thus, the only inner/granny gear available will be the 92mm 30t chainring,
period. See here:

http://cycle.shimano.co.jp/publish/content/cycle/sic/jp/ja/2005/front_triple.html

Personally, I would get the ultegra stuff with the 74mm inner granny
chainring to get more versatility....

It does sound a bit much. I've been riding all of my life and all of
my bikes I bought used. As my father is graciously offering, why
shouldn't I step up? It's not how far I ride, but how much I enjoy it
while I do it. Besides, I'd rather ride my mountain bike up hills
rather than a road bike, joys not easily found in the Netherlands.

Yes, I only do light touring, a set of rear panniers and that's it. I
do my camping by car and backpack, and would rather eat in a restaurant
at the end of a days touring. Besides, I've turned cycle touring into
a family adventure with teenage kids, and this is what works for us.

I'm tending to agree with you about the beauty of a lugged frame, but
why is it really needed? Waterford tig welds frames too. Maybe it's
just old fashioned. Is it really better? Do tig welded frames ever
break at the welds?

Regarding the Netherlands, I loved the bike paths. Living in LA I want
nothing more than to find a long ride WITHOUT CARS. I thought the bike
paths in the NL were fabulous. I agree, the winds were fierce at
times, and (for some) hills are the great. It could be boring. They
have several flavors of bike maps, mapping their national network of
bike freeways. The maps are detailed to the point of there being
concrete monuments in the ground with corresponding numbers on the map
to figure out where you are. I'll take their bike paths any day to
going to some strange country and being un-sure about road surface
condtions and traffic.
Where did you like the riding the best? I herd the rhine is good. My
wife has brought up china and cuba!

GlenB said:

It does sound a bit much. I've been riding all of my life and all of
my bikes I bought used. As my father is graciously offering, why
shouldn't I step up?

Nothing wrong with stepping up nor with accepting your father's
generosity. But I think you still want to think a bit about the value
you'd get for a given expenditure.

Custom bikes make sense if there's a particular characteristic you
really want that's not available on standard models and especially if
there's something about you that prevents you from getting a good fit on
a factory frame.

But I'd think that in your circumstance you could get more versatility
and enjoyment from having a variety of less expensive standard bikes
rather than a single costly custom one. A mountain bike, sport-touring
road bike, and a touring bike that cost around $1000 each would seem to
provide you with greater value than a single custom design that costs
over $3000. Maybe include a recumbent as well.

Getting an off-the-shelf bike also has the distinct advantage that you
can try it out and see how you like it before making a purchase decision.

The shimano North america site has the new DA 10 triple listed and also
the Ultegra 3x 10.

The Ultegra only lists the same 52-39-30T chainwheels. Is the smaller
cog available?
Will it shift OK with the same deraileur and the STI shifters?

http://bike.shimano.com/catalog/cycle/products/group.jsp?FOLDER%3C%3Efolder_id=2534374302032866&ASSORTMENT%3C%3East_id=1408474395181202&bmUID=1111796479751

I also read somewhere that the new DA 10 STI has much improved shifting
over the older 9, so I assumed it was better than the ultegra also.
This was my primary reason for going the DA 3x10 route.

Well I've only ridden off the shelf bikes, and as I've always bought
them used, theyv'e never fit perfectly. I think my bikes have felt too
stretched out, needing a shorter stem, but that always seemed like too
much a hassle and expense to switch.

I debated saying to my father well, how about 2 less expensive bikes,
as I've been thinking about a full suspension mtb also, but I didn't
want to push it.

I recently bought a used trek 520 for both my wife and daughter and
they are very nicely made and setup with 105 components. I got for my
son, a used Cannondale T2000 and it is very light and has an XT-
ultegra mix. They are very nice bikes, but I do have this offer that I
can't refuse, so I think I'll try the custom route.

I will say that is almost impossible to find a touring bike new at a
bike shop (here in L.A.) to try out first, so it's almost easier to buy
one on the internet (new or used) and hope it works.

I don't have a particularly different body, but maybe by spending the
time and $$$ with my LBS, I will get finally get propertly fitted for a
bicycle after 30 years of riding!

Consider Bilenky cycle works http://www.bilenky.com/index.htm Steve
makes very nice bikes. They are either semi or full custom. You
choose the components, you can have S&S couplings and you pick the
paint etc.

Steve will fit the bike for the useage it is to get, mine which was
intended for loaded touring, has an extra heavy downtube.

If you do get a custom touring bike please increase you miles.

Tom Gibb

Per GlenB:

Quoted message said:

My LBS suggested I look into Seven Cycles. They have steel as well as
Ti, and supposedly they have a great fitting system.

I used Seven for my FS and lucked out on the fit - so I'm a happy camper.

Also, one of the hardcore motorheads in our family looked at the Ti welding and
just about lost his cool - said it was *really* well done.

Some weeks ago, at guy at the LBS said someone walked in with Seven's cross bike
built up for them as a tourer - with Rohloff hub, no less. Said he wanted
"bulletproof". Haven't had a chance to see the thing yet, but it sounds
interesting....

--
PeteCresswell

GlenB said:

I will say that is almost impossible to find a touring bike new at a
bike shop (here in L.A.) to try out first, so it's almost easier to buy
one on the internet (new or used) and hope it works.

I don't have a particularly different body, but maybe by spending the
time and $$$ with my LBS, I will get finally get propertly fitted for a
bicycle after 30 years of riding!

Think about a true custom builder as well. One of many possibilities-

http://www.mikkelsenframes.com/pages/803200/index.htm

Many others on the west coast.

The biggest issue for you, it seems, is going to be dealing with the
fitting. I'd start there; find people who will spend the time to
develop the proper fit, and then the bike will fall into place.
Whether that means dealing with the frame builder directly, or having
a great dealer for setting up a frame sizing from Seven or IF or a
similar outfit.

I'd also suggest thinking down the road a bit. In ten or twenty years,
you might want a higher stem or other such accommodations to age. Get
a bike that keeps the future open.

GlenB said:

My father offered to buy me a custom bike. I think I'd enjoy a custom
touring bike most. I love cycling, road and mountain, but I don't ride
that much, maybe 1-2x monthly 25-30 miles on the beach bike path on my
1998 Bianchi San Remo, or in the local mountains on my 1994 Bontager
Race-Lite w/ XTR.

Quoted message said:

I've been touring since I was 17, when I took an AYH group trip in 1973
for 1,200 miles over 6 weeks, completley unsupported throught Nova
Scotia and PEI.
My family does love credit card touring. We've ridden 150 miles from
LA- San Diego 7 times and have taken a 10 day credit card tour of the
Netherlands (the best place for biking).

Quoted message said:

So now maybe I do deserve a $4,000- $5,000 bike! (why not, we all do)

Quoted message said:

So what bike should I get? I've only had steel bikes. I currently
ride a Bianchi San Remo, with 3x8 chorus set up and bar cons. Although
I'm 200#, I ride on 25- 28c tires, with out any problems.

Quoted message said:

I initially was leaing towards a Waterford RSE bike. Rivendell seemed
too "retro".

Rivendell is not "retro", they are "BOBish". A "BOBish" bicyclist
uses stuff that works and isn't easily swayed by bicycle "FADS". Blue
tires and pink vinyl seats do not get even a passing glance among
BOBish bicyclists, whose bikes are made entirely of steel, aluminum,
leather, linen, and plastic. A BOBish cyclist is not swayed by sexy
Italian stuff that only works for racing - they tend to prefer the
classy Japanese stuff that is still going strong and performing well
after only 30 years of operation.

Read more about it here :

http://search.bikelist.org/query.asp?SearchString=&FMMod=-1d&FMModDate=&SortBy=MsgDate%5Ba%5D&Scope=internet-bob&RecordsPerPage=250

I think you would be quite well served by a nice Rivendell Rambouillet
- a Rivendell sport bike, and they are very beautiful, especially if
you can get an orange one from last year. Outfit the bike with a
combination of Nitto, Ultegra, MKS, Sugino, and Brooks stuff. Take
the money you save and use it for a credit card tour, or give your dad
a vacation to Alaska, that's what I would do.

I wish I still had a Dad that I could do this for.

- Don Gillies
San Diego, CA

GlenB said:

.............. They are very nice bikes, but I do have this offer that I

can't refuse, so I think I'll try the custom route.

I will say that is almost impossible to find a touring bike new at a
bike shop (here in L.A.) to try out first, so it's almost easier to buy
one on the internet (new or used) and hope it works.

I don't have a particularly different body, but maybe by spending the
time and $$$ with my LBS, I will get finally get propertly fitted for a
bicycle after 30 years of riding!

I have decided to got he custom route too. I still have my 1974 Peugeot
that I bought as a graduation gift - I did not know it at the time but I
would not buy a vehicle until about 3 years later (at the age of 29). The
bike never fit properly even with an extended seat post with about 6" of
set-back. The Chinese $20 garage-sale ATB made me wonder about that style
of wheels for trecking/touring.

So I am getting an expedition-grade custom frame and forks and wheel-rims
built by Arvon Stacey in Tofield, Alberta. With the S&S couplers, a
powdercoat paint job, 48 spoke wheels built on Phil Wood hubs, mostly Deore
parts and a Brooks 17B saddle, the cost will be under $2500 Canadian. Mind
you, most of the parts (excluding the BB so far) were e-bay purchases -
used, but still OK. The drop bars cost $2 and postage was almost 5 times
that!! Still cheaper than new - and they are fine except for some scratches
that will be covered by tape. Money saved that way will be put into the
puncture-resistant tires for travel in OZ - apparently thorns can cause
grief in some parts of that country. (Here snow is still on the ground).

At least the bike will fit me much better than the Peugeot and the
Chinese-made ATB. Then to travel with it, not just commute about the city.

Getting it stolen will always be a worry, but then I have case-hardened
chain and locks that I can easily carry - or even buy the chain in
Australia/Europe and leave it behind.

So......have fun with your custom-built. I know I will. Some of the fun is
in the planning of (and discussion about) the design features/building
details.

Ken

Russell Seaton said:

GlenB wrote:
...

Quoted message said:

I'm not 100% sure of the components, but I think I'm leaning towards
the brand new Dura Ace 7803 series, with the DA 10 STI and a 3x10
gearing. I could go with ultegra, to save $$, but I heard the DA10
is a better lever and it is my father's money anyway. With shimano, I
can get the long extension brakeset in case I ever want to use wider
tires. From my Bianchi, I found I don't like canti's and regular
levers just don't work out well with V-brakes. Also, I have a thumb
problem and don't like the button on the side of the campy ergo
lever.

I know I'm giving up the low gearing of a mountain rig, but I have a
50-40-30 campy setup now, and think I can live with shimano's
52-39-30 x 27. Can I some how use a mountain crank set or drive train with
STI levers?...

...
Dura Ace triple cranksets use a unique bolt circle for the inner
chainring. 30 teeth is the smallest. Period. Most other road triples
use the standard 74mm bcd inner chainring size and a 24 tooth is the
smallest. Quite a difference. It is possible that Dura Ace will
abandon its current unique inner chainring size and go to the 74mm bcd
standard and allow smaller inner chainrings. Doubtful though.

I would want the possibility of a larger rear cog than 27 on a touring
or sport touring bike. With Shimano 10 speed, 27 is the largest rear
cog size. Combined with the 30 tooth inner ring from Dura Ace, and you
have a low gear of 29.4 gear inches. I like a lot lower gear when
touring....

An XTR rear derailleur and 11-32 cassette could be substituted for the
DA or Ultegra parts to obtain lower gearing, and would work with a
9-speed STI shifter.

--
Tom Sherman - Earth (Downstate Illinois, North of Forgottonia)

Per Dan Daniel:

Quoted message said:

I'd also suggest thinking down the road a bit. In ten or twenty years,
you might want a higher stem or other such accommodations to age. Get
a bike that keeps the future open.

In the context of that advice, I'd say:

- If you can push the steering tube an inch longer, do it.
- Don't trim the fork flush - leave a couple inches protruding.
--
PeteCresswell

GlenB said:

Yes, I only do light touring, a set of rear panniers and that's it.

I

Quoted message said:

do my camping by car and backpack, and would rather eat in a

restaurant

Quoted message said:

at the end of a days touring. Besides, I've turned cycle touring

into

Quoted message said:

a family adventure with teenage kids, and this is what works for us.

I'm tending to agree with you about the beauty of a lugged frame, but
why is it really needed? Waterford tig welds frames too. Maybe it's
just old fashioned. Is it really better? Do tig welded frames ever
break at the welds?

Regarding the Netherlands, I loved the bike paths. Living in LA I

want

Quoted message said:

nothing more than to find a long ride WITHOUT CARS. I thought the

bike

Quoted message said:

paths in the NL were fabulous. I agree, the winds were fierce at
times, and (for some) hills are the great. It could be boring. They
have several flavors of bike maps, mapping their national network of
bike freeways. The maps are detailed to the point of there being
concrete monuments in the ground with corresponding numbers on the

map

Quoted message said:

to figure out where you are. I'll take their bike paths any day to
going to some strange country and being un-sure about road surface
condtions and traffic.
Where did you like the riding the best? I herd the rhine is good.

My

Quoted message said:

wife has brought up china and cuba!

It sounds like the sport touring type bike is probably the best option
for you. Able to put a rear rack on it and panniers when needed.
Otherwise just a rear rack bag for normal riding.

Lugs are not better or worse than TIG welding or fillet brazing for the
customer. It depends on what you want in regards to aesthetics. But
for the factory or builder, TIG welding is cheaper and quicker and
easier. My sensibilities just don't allow me to pay top dollar for a
TIG welded frame. If the TIG welded frame is offered at a cheaper
price point than the lugged frame, then fine. But when you get near
$2,000 for a frame and/or fork for a TIG welded steel frame, then I
start to wonder about the seller's greed. With a similarly priced
lugged frame you are fairly certain the builder actually had to put
some time in to the frame to justify the final cost. I'm beginning to
like Surly (QBP) more and more. TIG welded 4130 steel frame and fork
made in Taiwan or China and sold for $400.

Regarding custom, you seem to want a custom frame so get one. Pick a
local builder in the LA area. I think there are many well known custom
builders in LA. You may end up with a custom frame that is the same
size as an off the shelf frame. But twice or three times the price.
And you cannot test ride it beforehand to get an idea if the fit is
right. Personally, I think you really need to know what you want
regarding frame sizing before getting a custom frame. Otherwise you
rely solely on their sizing expertise and judgment. It may or may not
result in a correctly sized bike. Use your current bike sizes to
figure out approximately what size bike you need.

I did not have bike path specific maps when riding through the
Netherlands in 1992. I just had whatever local maps I could find. I
rode from the North Sea across the 30 mile dam, down the coast to
Amsterdam, then out the south along the coast into Belgium. I knew I
wanted to go to this town or that town and picked the roads that went
that way. But when there was a bike path I was sort of forced to use
it. But many times the bike paths did not parallel the roads exactly.
They angled off in other directions away from the town I wanted to go
to. So I was glad to get to the south of the Netherlands where the
paths were not and I could just ride the roads.

My favorite parts of Europe were Austria for the overall scenery.
Czechslovakia for the rural riding without much traffic and pretty
close to primitive ways. Czechslovakia also for meeting people on the
road and staying with them for a few days. Bavaria reminded me of the
midwest with its farm fields. The mountains were sort of the highlight
of the trip for their difficulty and reward. Dolomites in Italy and
Alps in western Austria. Sunday mornings in Italy were enjoyable with
all of the middle age men out riding their bikes.

I felt that rivendell is a bit luddite- ish and cult-ish , with the
sugino cranksets, leather seats and leather bar tape and the retro
offerings of wool jerseys and waxed- canvas panniers. (although I
must admit the low sugino gearing is great). While I do have a
fondness for the classics (my leaning is towards a lugged steel bike
with custom pinstriping) I don't see why titanium is any less
desireable than aluminium. When aluminum "alloy" components came out
in the '70s surplanting steel, they were the new technology. Titanium
is just another alloy, carbon fiber is another plastic. While I
certainly wouldn't want a pink vinyl seat, my "retro", bongrager
hardtail mtb bike has blue sidewall tires that go quite nicely with the
frame panels, and I did recently see a pink "hello Kitty" cruiser bike,
with a pink seat that I immediately wanted to get for my wife.

While I think classics are great, new technology is mostly better. I
had sewups and couldn't wait to get rid of them. Those weinmann
centerpull brakes were just terrible, especially on the chromed steel
rims. I think the current lightweight seats are just fine. About 5
years ago I bought a 1980's colnago from a friend for $350 just
because it just was so classic and looked so great, but downtube
shifting has had its day and 24 speeds are better than 12. The
internet being so fabulous, I found a whole cult dedicated to the
1960-'s raleigh chopper, which was my main ride when I was 12 years
old. I instantly wanted to buy one, but I reasoned that I had no place
to ride it and already have 7 bikes in my garage plus 2 in storage.

While I do agree that the low handlebars and compact race geometry of
95% of the road offerings can't be right for non- racers and certainly
not for me I was a bit scared off by the large frame issue, thinking it
would be too difficult and risky to get it right. Still the blue and
white ramboullet on their website is absolutely georgous and I may
consider it, but I really don't need a loaded tourer. I saw an
orangeish Waterford on ebay that kind of got me going in this
direction. It was copper metalflake with ivory panels and black trim.
Check it out:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7136451259&rd=1&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWA%3AIT&rd=1

I was thinking of asking my dad to take my family on a vacation
(Japan), but I thought better of it. It's easier to go out to lunch
and to accept a gift (like this bike) that I'll ride for 20 years.

GlenB said:

So now maybe I do deserve a $4,000- $5,000 bike! (why not, we all do)

So what bike should I get? I've only had steel bikes. I currently
ride a Bianchi San Remo, with 3x8 chorus set up and bar cons. Although
I'm 200#, I ride on 25- 28c tires, with out any problems.

I initially was leaing towards a Waterford RSE bike. Rivendell seemed
too "retro".
My LBS suggested I look into Seven Cycles. They have steel as well as
Ti, and supposedly they have a great fitting system. The LBS also
suggested IF, Independent Fabrication. I still like the classic look
of the waterford lugged frame, but they don't seem to encourage custom
sizing, although they will if you ask them to. Seven, with their
exensive fitting system seems to encourage it.

Not sure I get this. i talk to Richard Schwinn often(we are a
Waterford/Gunnar dealer) and he is eager to make the frameset any way
the customer wants.

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Should I stick with a steel fork, or is carbon fiber desireable?

Carbon does wonderful things to a bike but I would recommend canti
brakes for fenders.

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I'm not 100% sure of the components, but I think I'm leaning towards
the brand new Dura Ace 7803 series, with the DA 10 STI and a 3x10
gearing. I could go with ultegra, to save $$, but I heard the DA10 is
a better lever and it is my father's money anyway. With shimano, I
can get the long extension brakeset in case I ever want to use wider
tires. From my Bianchi, I found I don't like canti's and regular
levers just don't work out well with V-brakes. Also, I have a thumb
problem and don't like the button on the side of the campy ergo lever.

I know I'm giving up the low gearing of a mountain rig, but I have a
50-40-30 campy setup now, and think I can live with shimano's 52-39-30
x 27. Can I some how use a mountain crank set or drive train with STI
levers?

I would recommend DA barcons, with a friction backup feature. Altho not
touring loaded in east jesus, if you do kill a STI lever, you are going
to be stuck. Not many shops have spares laying around. This would also
allow you to use any front der and crank combo w/o all the finnickyness
of STI and the front der.

For wheels, have a local good wheel builder design a set for you and
your needs. Stay away from wheels outta a box. They are generally NOT
reliable, do not deliver what the hype/marketing says, are not worth the $$.

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Also,
I don't really know much about what wheels to spec.
In advance, I appriciate your input.

Your San Remo is a perfect match for the distance you ride. But if I had
your budget, it is easy to spend.

Some discount Rivendell, and that is a mistake. Call on the phone, and go
visit these guys. You'll love the shop and the neighborhood.
Gaansari never came up. What a wonderful group of bikes.
Co-Motion in Eugene, Oregon will work with you. A delightful group of bikes
and more great people to deal with.
Koga Miata is worth a look. It still is difficult to get in the US. I'd
call Sheldon Brown and ask. 14 speed internal hub, sturdy and the list goes
on.
Cant skip Vanilla Bikes in Portland, Oregon. You are missing a delightful
purchase, and the extreme attention to detail.
With your change, get a high end Dahon folder to keep in the trunk of your
car. the Joy of Biking is to have it with you where ever you go. for the
rest of us, get a low end folder and do the same. You see so much more
where ever you go.

Do you have your Carradice Bags yet? A Nightrider blow torch headlight (I
have 2). There's another $1000. And wood fenders are a must. Maybe you
need to add some money. See, easy to spend.

"GlenB" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

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My father offered to buy me a custom bike. I think I'd enjoy a custom
touring bike most. I love cycling, road and mountain, but I don't ride
that much, maybe 1-2x monthly 25-30 miles on the beach bike path on my
1998 Bianchi San Remo, or in the local mountains on my 1994 Bontager
Race-Lite w/ XTR.