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Supermarket bread labeling

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General fitness, health and nutrition
Published
19 September 2007
Last activity
21 September 2007
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jmm1951
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  1. Mostly I make my own bread, because I don't like the supermarket
    breads, but sometimes I am short and buy a loaf from WalMart. (There
    are no bakers within 30 miles of where I live.)

    Usually I get the bread labeled "California Sourdough." I suspect that
    it is neither. This bread is OK for making toast and has the benefit
    of not having added sugar or corn syrup included in the list of
    ingredients.

    The list of ingredients includes yeast, which would not be found in a
    sourdough bread, unless the sourdough culture was described as yeast,
    which I guess is possible. (There is no mention of sourdough culture.)

    Of course only a fool would believe supermarket descriptions of foods,
    but does anyone know how genuine sourdough would be labeled and how
    one would identify it?

  2. "jmm1951" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    Mostly I make my own bread, because I don't like the supermarket
    breads, but sometimes I am short and buy a loaf from WalMart. (There
    are no bakers within 30 miles of where I live.)

    Usually I get the bread labeled "California Sourdough." I suspect that
    it is neither. This bread is OK for making toast and has the benefit
    of not having added sugar or corn syrup included in the list of
    ingredients.

    The list of ingredients includes yeast, which would not be found in a
    sourdough bread, unless the sourdough culture was described as yeast,
    which I guess is possible. (There is no mention of sourdough culture.)

    Of course only a fool would believe supermarket descriptions of foods,
    but does anyone know how genuine sourdough would be labeled and how
    one would identify it?

    All sourdough bread begins with SOME kind of yeast. Whether the yeast is
    naturally occurring or added by the baker, the bread still contains yeast,
    so I suppose they include it in the ingredients for that reason.

    "A fresh culture begins with a mixture of flour and water. Fresh flour
    naturally contains a wide variety of yeast and bacteria spores. When wheat
    flour contacts water, naturally-occurring amylase enzymes break down the
    starch into complex sugars (saccharose and maltose); maltase converts the
    sugars into glucose and fructose that yeast can metabolize. The
    lactobacteria feed mostly on the metabolism products from the yeast. [1] The
    mixture develops a balanced, symbiotic culture after repeated feedings."

  3. "jmm1951" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    Mostly I make my own bread, because I don't like the supermarket
    breads, but sometimes I am short and buy a loaf from WalMart. (There
    are no bakers within 30 miles of where I live.)

    Usually I get the bread labeled "California Sourdough." I suspect that
    it is neither. This bread is OK for making toast and has the benefit
    of not having added sugar or corn syrup included in the list of
    ingredients.

    The list of ingredients includes yeast, which would not be found in a
    sourdough bread, unless the sourdough culture was described as yeast,
    which I guess is possible. (There is no mention of sourdough culture.)

    Of course only a fool would believe supermarket descriptions of foods,
    but does anyone know how genuine sourdough would be labeled and how
    one would identify it?

    Just guessing here, but I think by law they would have to declare what is in
    the sourdough starter by name. This could be why it lists yeast because
    there is in fact natural yeast in the starter. Some people are on a yeast
    free diet so perhaps for this reason they list it.

  4. "Julie Bove" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:OxbIi.3202$yO2.276@trndny01...

    Quoted message said:


    "jmm1951" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    Mostly I make my own bread, because I don't like the supermarket
    breads, but sometimes I am short and buy a loaf from WalMart. (There
    are no bakers within 30 miles of where I live.)

    Usually I get the bread labeled "California Sourdough." I suspect that
    it is neither. This bread is OK for making toast and has the benefit
    of not having added sugar or corn syrup included in the list of
    ingredients.

    The list of ingredients includes yeast, which would not be found in a
    sourdough bread, unless the sourdough culture was described as yeast,
    which I guess is possible. (There is no mention of sourdough culture.)

    Of course only a fool would believe supermarket descriptions of foods,
    but does anyone know how genuine sourdough would be labeled and how
    one would identify it?

    Just guessing here, but I think by law they would have to declare what is
    in the sourdough starter by name. This could be why it lists yeast
    because there is in fact natural yeast in the starter. Some people are on
    a yeast free diet so perhaps for this reason they list it.

    I think if it were real sourdough, the starter would be described as
    'levain' not yeast. Then you would know that it is natural, and no yeast
    had been 'added.'
    Dee Dee

  5. "Dee Dee" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:


    "Julie Bove" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:OxbIi.3202$yO2.276@trndny01...

    Quoted message said:


    "jmm1951" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    Mostly I make my own bread, because I don't like the supermarket
    breads, but sometimes I am short and buy a loaf from WalMart. (There
    are no bakers within 30 miles of where I live.)

    Usually I get the bread labeled "California Sourdough." I suspect that
    it is neither. This bread is OK for making toast and has the benefit
    of not having added sugar or corn syrup included in the list of
    ingredients.

    The list of ingredients includes yeast, which would not be found in a
    sourdough bread, unless the sourdough culture was described as yeast,
    which I guess is possible. (There is no mention of sourdough culture.)

    Of course only a fool would believe supermarket descriptions of foods,
    but does anyone know how genuine sourdough would be labeled and how
    one would identify it?

    Just guessing here, but I think by law they would have to declare what is
    in the sourdough starter by name. This could be why it lists yeast
    because there is in fact natural yeast in the starter. Some people are
    on a yeast free diet so perhaps for this reason they list it.

    I think if it were real sourdough, the starter would be described as
    'levain' not yeast. Then you would know that it is natural, and no yeast
    had been 'added.'
    Dee Dee

    Maybe, but that would annoy anyone who didn't know what "levain" was,
    especially if they had forgotten to bring their dictionaries to the grocery
    store. I'll take a guess and say that 99% of shoppers wouldn't know that
    word.

  6. jmm1951 said:

    Usually I get the bread labeled "California Sourdough." I suspect that
    it is neither. This bread is OK for making toast and has the benefit
    of not having added sugar or corn syrup included in the list of
    ingredients.

    You make your own bread usually, but when you can't you go to
    Walmart to buy it?

    Of all the "artisan" baked goods being sold through real grocery
    stores and bakeries, you choose the bottom the barrel - the
    "Great Value" brand.

    -sw

  7. jmm1951 said:


    Usually I get the bread labeled "California Sourdough." I suspect that
    it is neither. This bread is OK for making toast and has the benefit
    of not having added sugar or corn syrup included in the list of
    ingredients.

    The list of ingredients includes yeast, which would not be found in a
    sourdough bread, unless the sourdough culture was described as yeast,
    which I guess is possible. (There is no mention of sourdough culture.)

    Of course only a fool would believe supermarket descriptions of foods,
    but does anyone know how genuine sourdough would be labeled and how
    one would identify it?

    Genuine sourdough bread made with sourdough starter would have
    "sourdough starter" listed as an ingredient, I should think.

    Is it possible that the supermarket bread lists yeast because it was
    made with conventional yeast? I'm going with your suspicions that it is
    neither true California nor true sourdough. It may have some other
    ingredient to give it a bit of sour taste, but it lists yeast as an
    ingredient because that's what's in there.

    --Lia

  8. "Julia Altshuler" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    jmm1951 said:


    Usually I get the bread labeled "California Sourdough." I suspect that
    it is neither. This bread is OK for making toast and has the benefit
    of not having added sugar or corn syrup included in the list of
    ingredients.

    The list of ingredients includes yeast, which would not be found in a
    sourdough bread, unless the sourdough culture was described as yeast,
    which I guess is possible. (There is no mention of sourdough culture.)

    Of course only a fool would believe supermarket descriptions of foods,
    but does anyone know how genuine sourdough would be labeled and how
    one would identify it?

    Genuine sourdough bread made with sourdough starter would have "sourdough
    starter" listed as an ingredient, I should think.

    Is it possible that the supermarket bread lists yeast because it was made
    with conventional yeast? I'm going with your suspicions that it is
    neither true California nor true sourdough. It may have some other
    ingredient to give it a bit of sour taste, but it lists yeast as an
    ingredient because that's what's in there.

    --Lia

    "True" sourdough bread contains yeast. It may not have been added, but it
    *does* contain yeast.

  9. Julia Altshuler said:
    jmm1951 said:


    Usually I get the bread labeled "California Sourdough." I suspect that
    it is neither. This bread is OK for making toast and has the benefit
    of not having added sugar or corn syrup included in the list of
    ingredients.

    The list of ingredients includes yeast, which would not be found in a
    sourdough bread, unless the sourdough culture was described as yeast,
    which I guess is possible. (There is no mention of sourdough culture.)

    Of course only a fool would believe supermarket descriptions of foods,
    but does anyone know how genuine sourdough would be labeled and how
    one would identify it?

    Genuine sourdough bread made with sourdough starter would have
    "sourdough starter" listed as an ingredient, I should think.

    Is it possible that the supermarket bread lists yeast because it was
    made with conventional yeast? I'm going with your suspicions that it is
    neither true California nor true sourdough. It may have some other
    ingredient to give it a bit of sour taste, but it lists yeast as an
    ingredient because that's what's in there.

    --Lia

    Boudin lists is sourdough round ingredients as:

    INGREDIENTS: unbleached flour (wheat
    flour, malted barley flour, niacin,
    reduced iron, thiamine mononitrate,
    riboflavin, folic acid), water, salt.

    Click on "nutritional information".

    http://tinyurl.com/34n52p
    http://www.boudinbakery.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=order&action=product_detail&product_group_id=83&product_id=312&product_sub_id=1444

    Boron

  10. "Boron Elgar" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    Julia Altshuler said:
    jmm1951 said:


    Usually I get the bread labeled "California Sourdough." I suspect that
    it is neither. This bread is OK for making toast and has the benefit
    of not having added sugar or corn syrup included in the list of
    ingredients.

    The list of ingredients includes yeast, which would not be found in a
    sourdough bread, unless the sourdough culture was described as yeast,
    which I guess is possible. (There is no mention of sourdough culture.)

    Of course only a fool would believe supermarket descriptions of foods,
    but does anyone know how genuine sourdough would be labeled and how
    one would identify it?

    Genuine sourdough bread made with sourdough starter would have
    "sourdough starter" listed as an ingredient, I should think.

    Is it possible that the supermarket bread lists yeast because it was
    made with conventional yeast? I'm going with your suspicions that it is
    neither true California nor true sourdough. It may have some other
    ingredient to give it a bit of sour taste, but it lists yeast as an
    ingredient because that's what's in there.

    --Lia

    Boudin lists is sourdough round ingredients as:

    INGREDIENTS: unbleached flour (wheat
    flour, malted barley flour, niacin,
    reduced iron, thiamine mononitrate,
    riboflavin, folic acid), water, salt.

    If no yeast is added, sourdough still contains yeast, but it's naturally
    present in the flour. So, the bread manufacturers may still want (or be
    required) to list yeast as an ingredient.

  11. Boron wrote on Wed, 19 Sep 2007 14:06:35 -0400:

    ??>> jmm1951 wrote:
    ??>>>
    ??>>> Usually I get the bread labeled "California Sourdough." I
    ??>>> suspect that it is neither. This bread is OK for making
    ??>>> toast and has the benefit of not having added sugar or
    ??>>> corn syrup included in the list of ingredients.
    ??>>>
    ??>>> The list of ingredients includes yeast, which would not
    ??>>> be found in a sourdough bread, unless the sourdough
    ??>>> culture was described as yeast, which I guess is
    ??>>> possible. (There is no mention of sourdough culture.)
    ??>>>
    ??>>> Of course only a fool would believe supermarket
    ??>>> descriptions of foods, but does anyone know how genuine
    ??>>> sourdough would be labeled and how one would identify it?
    ??>>
    ??>> Genuine sourdough bread made with sourdough starter would
    ??>> have "sourdough starter" listed as an ingredient, I should
    ??>> think.
    ??>>
    ??>> Is it possible that the supermarket bread lists yeast
    ??>> because it was made with conventional yeast? I'm going
    ??>> with your suspicions that it is neither true California
    ??>> nor true sourdough. It may have some other ingredient to
    ??>> give it a bit of sour taste, but it lists yeast as an
    ??>> ingredient because that's what's in there.
    ??>>
    ??>> --Lia

    BE> Boudin lists is sourdough round ingredients as:

    BE> INGREDIENTS: unbleached flour (wheat
    BE> flour, malted barley flour, niacin,
    BE> reduced iron, thiamine mononitrate,
    BE> riboflavin, folic acid), water, salt.

    You interested me so I examined 2 makes of sourdough bread at my
    local Giant supermarket. One called "Yukon Jack" that is quite
    good and claimed to be "genuine soudough" did not list any yeast
    or starter. The other from the La Brea bakery said it contained
    "sourdough culture". They are both pretty good if not up to
    Boudin's as bought in San Francisco but I think they baked in
    the store using frozen dough.

    James Silverton
    Potomac, Maryland

    E-mail, with obvious alterations:
    not.jim.silverton.at.verizon.not

  12. James Silverton said:

    Boron wrote on Wed, 19 Sep 2007 14:06:35 -0400:

    ??>> jmm1951 wrote:
    ??>>>

    Quoted message said:

    ??>> Genuine sourdough bread made with sourdough starter would
    ??>> have "sourdough starter" listed as an ingredient, I should
    ??>> think.
    ??>>
    ??>> Is it possible that the supermarket bread lists yeast
    ??>> because it was made with conventional yeast? I'm going
    ??>> with your suspicions that it is neither true California
    ??>> nor true sourdough. It may have some other ingredient to
    ??>> give it a bit of sour taste, but it lists yeast as an
    ??>> ingredient because that's what's in there.
    ??>>
    ??>> --Lia

    BE> Boudin lists is sourdough round ingredients as:

    BE> INGREDIENTS: unbleached flour (wheat
    BE> flour, malted barley flour, niacin,
    BE> reduced iron, thiamine mononitrate,
    BE> riboflavin, folic acid), water, salt.

    You interested me so I examined 2 makes of sourdough bread at my
    local Giant supermarket. One called "Yukon Jack" that is quite
    good and claimed to be "genuine soudough" did not list any yeast
    or starter. The other from the La Brea bakery said it contained
    "sourdough culture". They are both pretty good if not up to
    Boudin's as bought in San Francisco but I think they baked in
    the store using frozen dough.

    James Silverton

    I have been all over the net looking up lists and find what you
    do...some mention starter, some not.

    I'd bet that the ones that do list yeast, though, actually have yeast
    and may use starters minimally or create the "sour" with flavor
    enhancers.

    Some of stores use frozen, some use mixes. The Hub's company has done
    work at a baking mix manufacturer that supplies Panera, Publix and
    Subway with some mixes. The manufacturer also has another division
    that supplies frozen dough.

    I currently have 8 separate sourdough starters a burblin' in the
    kitchen....

    Boron

  13. "Boron Elgar" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    James Silverton said:

    Boron wrote on Wed, 19 Sep 2007 14:06:35 -0400:

    ??>> jmm1951 wrote:
    ??>>>

    Quoted message said:

    ??>> Genuine sourdough bread made with sourdough starter would
    ??>> have "sourdough starter" listed as an ingredient, I should
    ??>> think.
    ??>>
    ??>> Is it possible that the supermarket bread lists yeast
    ??>> because it was made with conventional yeast? I'm going
    ??>> with your suspicions that it is neither true California
    ??>> nor true sourdough. It may have some other ingredient to
    ??>> give it a bit of sour taste, but it lists yeast as an
    ??>> ingredient because that's what's in there.
    ??>>
    ??>> --Lia

    BE> Boudin lists is sourdough round ingredients as:

    BE> INGREDIENTS: unbleached flour (wheat
    BE> flour, malted barley flour, niacin,
    BE> reduced iron, thiamine mononitrate,
    BE> riboflavin, folic acid), water, salt.

    You interested me so I examined 2 makes of sourdough bread at my
    local Giant supermarket. One called "Yukon Jack" that is quite
    good and claimed to be "genuine soudough" did not list any yeast
    or starter. The other from the La Brea bakery said it contained
    "sourdough culture". They are both pretty good if not up to
    Boudin's as bought in San Francisco but I think they baked in
    the store using frozen dough.

    James Silverton

    I have been all over the net looking up lists and find what you
    do...some mention starter, some not.

    I'd bet that the ones that do list yeast, though, actually have yeast
    and may use starters minimally or create the "sour" with flavor
    enhancers.

    Some of stores use frozen, some use mixes. The Hub's company has done
    work at a baking mix manufacturer that supplies Panera, Publix and
    Subway with some mixes. The manufacturer also has another division
    that supplies frozen dough.

    I currently have 8 separate sourdough starters a burblin' in the
    kitchen....

    Boron

    How did you create your starter? Flour & water, or some other method?

  14. JoeSpareBedroom said:
    Quoted message said:

    I currently have 8 separate sourdough starters a burblin' in the
    kitchen....

    Boron

    How did you create your starter? Flour & water, or some other method?


    That is the best way to do it. Many folks start with rye flour and
    water. Others prefer white. Some feel that non-chlorinated water is
    best, some don't have too much trouble with tap water.

    I have not ever found it necessary to make a starter using grapes,
    fruit juice, purchased yeast, milk or anything else in addition to the
    flour and water.

    You can find lots of sourdough information and link to other sourdough
    info sites from here:

    http://www.nyx.net/~dgreenw/sourdoughfaqs.html

    And get specific starter info here:

    ftp://rtfm.mit.edu/pub/usenet-by-group/news.answers/food/sourdough/starters

    Also lots of information and instructions here:

    http://samartha.net/SD/

    If you would like a really dependable starter for the cost of a
    self-addressed, stamped envelope, contact the peeps at:

    http://home.att.net/~carlsfriends/

    You will receive a packet of dried starter that will be easy to revive
    following the instructions online. If you're not used to creating your
    own starter, Carl's is a great way to begin the habit...uh...hobby.

    There are some wonderful volunteers who maintain and dry the starter
    to send out to those who want some.

    There are also several places online where you can purchase tried &
    true starter. King Arthur Flour offers one or two, there are other
    sources mentioned in the FAQ I linked above.

    Boron

  15. "Boron Elgar" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    I currently have 8 separate sourdough starters a burblin' in the
    kitchen....

    Boron

    I've just gotta start using starters. Are yours all sitting out? I just
    can't bear thinking of making room in the refrigerators for them. They're
    overloaded now.

    Dee Dee

  16. On Wed, 19 Sep 2007 21:08:18 -0400, "Dee Dee" <[email hidden]>

    Quoted message said:


    "Boron Elgar" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    I currently have 8 separate sourdough starters a burblin' in the
    kitchen....

    Boron

    I've just gotta start using starters. Are yours all sitting out? I just
    can't bear thinking of making room in the refrigerators for them. They're
    overloaded now.

    Dee Dee

    I keep them out when they are being refreshed and to be used for
    baking. The rest of the time they are in the fridge.

    You needn't store much. You can go to the dollar store and get small
    containers to store them in. When you need some, take a fingertip size
    piece and use it as the basis for refreshing a full starter for
    baking.

    The standard way of storing it is fridge or drying it out & keeping
    the chips in the fridge or freezer.

    I had five I was working with (this is the start of my serious baking
    season) and was experimenting when a kind soul sent me two more to
    play with. Then I found another one stashed at the back of the fridge
    and it looked deader than a doornail, but 36 hours later with a few
    refreshments, it is lively and foamy.

    Starters are mighty tough. The reason I had so many is that I scored a
    1972 Sourdough Jack cookbook from eBay and it had the original dried
    starter packet. By the gods, that thing came alive. And one of the
    starters I was just given was dried in 1992. It, too, is quite lively.
    Boron

  17. "Boron Elgar" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    On Wed, 19 Sep 2007 21:08:18 -0400, "Dee Dee" <[email hidden]>

    Quoted message said:


    "Boron Elgar" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    I currently have 8 separate sourdough starters a burblin' in the
    kitchen....

    Boron

    I've just gotta start using starters. Are yours all sitting out? I just
    can't bear thinking of making room in the refrigerators for them. They're
    overloaded now.

    Dee Dee

    I keep them out when they are being refreshed and to be used for
    baking. The rest of the time they are in the fridge.

    You needn't store much. You can go to the dollar store and get small
    containers to store them in. When you need some, take a fingertip size
    piece and use it as the basis for refreshing a full starter for
    baking.

    Quoted message said:

    Boron

    I have plenty of containers -- and a fingertip.
    That's a good tip (no pun intended).
    Thanks.
    Dee Dee

  18. Julia Altshuler said:

    Is it possible that the supermarket bread lists yeast because it was
    made with conventional yeast? I'm going with your suspicions that it
    is neither true California nor true sourdough. It may have some other
    ingredient to give it a bit of sour taste, but it lists yeast as an
    ingredient because that's what's in there.

    --Lia

    Hi Lia🙂 You can get a starter free from rec.food.sourdough if you wanted
    to make your own.

  19. Ophelia said:


    Hi Lia🙂 You can get a starter free from rec.food.sourdough if you wanted
    to make your own.

    I'm not sure why I've never gotten into sourdough. I enjoy it when I
    buy it from a bakery. Many years ago, I used to work here:

    http://www.progressivebaker.com/resources/baker_profiles_renaissance.shtm

    but never thought to experiment at home.

    I enjoy making bread from scratch, the conventional yeast kind and don't
    make it nearly often enough. There's a Portuguese bakery in town which
    makes a good loaf for everyday use, and I use that for french toast,
    grilled cheese and sandwiches. I guess I get lazy and depend on them.
    Lately I've been meaning to start experimenting more with sweet yeast
    breads, the sort with jam and nuts and raisins rolled up and baked in.
    I may wait for cooler weather for that.

    --Lia

  20. "Ophelia" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    Julia Altshuler said:

    Is it possible that the supermarket bread lists yeast because it was
    made with conventional yeast? I'm going with your suspicions that it
    is neither true California nor true sourdough. It may have some other
    ingredient to give it a bit of sour taste, but it lists yeast as an
    ingredient because that's what's in there.

    --Lia

    Hi Lia🙂 You can get a starter free from rec.food.sourdough if you wanted
    to make your own.

    What is going on in this discussion??? There is naturally occurring yeast
    in flour, and in the air around us. You don't need to obtain any magical
    ingredients from anyone in order to make sourdough bread. An alternative is
    to make a "biga" using a little commercial yeast, as described in this
    method from "In Nonna's Kitchen", by Carol Field.

    Biga (bread starter)

    ¼ teaspoon active dry yeast or 1/10 small cake fresh yeast

    ¼ cup warm water

    ¾ cup plus 2 tablespoons water, room temperature

    2-1/2 cups (about 11 ounces) unbleached all purpose flour

    To make the biga: Stir the yeast into the warm water and let stand until
    creamy, about 10 minutes. Stir in the remaining water and then the flour, 1
    cup at a time. If you are making the biga by hand, mix with a wooden spoon
    for about 4 minutes. If you are using a heavy-duty electric mixer, mix with
    the paddle at the lowest speed for about 2 minutes.

    Rising: Place the sticky biga in a large lightly oiled bowl, cover with
    plastic wrap, and let rise at cool room temperature for 24 to 48 hours. The
    starter will triple in volume, then fall back upon itself. It ill still be
    wet and sticky when you use it, so moisten your hands when you scoop some
    out to measure it. Cover and refrigerate after 48 hours. You may keep the
    biga refrigerated for up to 5 days.

    REMAINDER OF RECIPE:

    To make the dough by hand: Stir the yeast into the warm water in a large
    mixing bowl; let it stand until creamy, about 10 minutes. Add the room
    temperature water and the biga. Squeeze the biga through your fingers to
    break it up and then stir it vigorously with a wooden spoon until the water
    is chalky white and the starter is well shredded. Begin stirring the flour
    mixed with the salt, 2 cups at a time, into the yeast mixture. Beat well
    with a wooden spoon until the dough comes together into a shaggy moist mass.
    Flour your work surface and your dough scraper and keep a mound of flour
    nearby for your hands. Turn the dough out onto the floured surface and,
    with the help of the dough scraper and as little flour as possible, turn and
    knead the dough until it gradually loses its stickiness, although it will
    remain wet.

    By heavy-duty electric mixer: Stir the yeast into the warm water in a large
    mixing bowl; let it stand until creamy, about 10 minutes. Add the room
    temperature water and the biga. Squeeze the biga through your fingers to
    break it up and then stir it vigorously with a wooden spoon until the water
    is chalky white and the starter is well shredded. Add the flour and salt
    and with the paddle attachment mix until the dough comes together. You may
    need to add up to 4 tablespoons more flour, but the dough will never come
    away from the sides and bottom of the bowl. Change to the dough hook and
    knead for 4 to 5 minutes at medium speed. You may finish kneading the
    sticky wet dough by hand on a well-floured surface, sprinkling the top with
    up to 4 tablespoons more flour.

    First Rise: Place the dough in a lightly oiled bowl. If you have a
    straight-sided translucent plastic container, please use it so that you can
    mark exactly where the dough starts and measure its progress until it has
    tripled. Cover tightly with plastic wrap and let rise until tripled and
    full of air bubbles, about 3 hours.

    Shaping and second rise: Turn the sticky dough out onto a well-floured work
    surface. Flour a dough scraper and have a mound of flour nearby for your
    hands. Pour the dough out of the bowl but do not punch it down. Lightly
    flour the top and cut into 3 equal pieces. You can moisten your hands in
    water if the dough seems very sticky; wet hands do not stick to wet dough.
    Flatten each piece and roll it up lengthwise, using your thumbs as a guide
    for how tight the rolls should be. Turn the dough 90 degrees, gently pat it
    flat, and roll it up again, still using your thumbs as a guide. Shape each
    piece into a ball by rolling the dough between your cupped hands, using the
    surface of your work table to generate tension and create a taut skin on the
    surface of the dough. Place the loaves on floured parchment paper or waxed
    paper, set them on baking sheets or pizza peels, cover with a heavy cloth,
    and let rise until doubled, about 1 hour.

    At least 30 minutes before you plan to bake, heat the oven(s) to 450 degrees
    with baking stones inside.

    Baking: Just before baking, sprinkle the stones with cornmeal. Gently
    invert the loaves onto the stones—you may leave whatever parchment paper has
    stuck to the wet dough for 15 minutes or so and remove it once the dough has
    set. You may prefer to slide the loaves onto the baking stones without
    turning them over; you may also leave them on the baking sheets and set them
    directly on the stones. The break will look deflated when you initially put
    it in, but will puff up like a pillow in no time. Bake until golden brown
    and crusty, about 35 minutes, or until a tap on the bottom produces a hollow
    sound that indicates the loaf is baked. Cool on racks.

    Variation: Use 1 scant cup (5 ounces) whole wheat flour, preferably
    stone-ground and 4-3/4 cups (1-1/3 pounds) unbleached all-purpose flour.

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