SUV Protest

Dear Guy;

Funny thing, the Evolution of these Vehicles. A few decades
ago, the only Apes possessing same were Duck Hunters, Farmers,
Construction Workers, you know, folks who might actually have some sort
of Reason for a Off-Road Truck with 4wD and a place to put their Doggie
and cooler(s) and 8 or 9 Implements of Destruction, etc(not that there's
Anything Wrong with That). Why anyone without these rather Special
Needs would feel compelled to shell out the rather exorbitant $$$ is
rather quaint, even in the continuing saga of Yuppie Status-Seeking.

jmt

Just zis Guy said:

I submit that on or about Fri, 16 Sep 2005 15:29:56 GMT, the person
known to the court as Ryan Cousineau <[email hidden]> made a
statement (<[email hidden]> in Your
Honour's bundle) to the following effect:

Quoted message said:

I'd rather not talk about the evil that are SUVs, because I am
suspicious that their recent pariah status has more to do with the
visceral impression they make than their actual contribution to human
sorrow.

Hmmm. I see them as a symptom, not a cause; but there is no doubt
that selfishness, aggression and plain old-fashioned pig-ignorance are
significantly correlated with ownership of SUVs, hereabouts anyway.

Guy

Andy Gee said:

What I find works second best is the fake ticket thing for SUVs actually
blocking bike lanes. No damage, lots of education and thought.

Well at least fake tickets can be issued!

I once called the police to complain about the line of mini-vans and
SUVs parked in the bike lane near an elementary school, as parents
waited for school to let out. They wouldn't do anything, even though the
bike lane had "No Parking Any Time" signs. The explanation was that
those vehicles were not really parked, they were "paused." Meanwhile,
every bicyclist had to veer around these parked vehicles into the street.

"Zoot Katz" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

15 Sep 2005 18:28:43 -0700,
<[email hidden]>,
"Bob" <[email hidden]> wrote, in part:

Quoted message said:

Ecowarriors? Young activists? Horse hockey. They are most likely simply
typical kids acting out their antisocial angst. BTW, in Illinois we'd
simply call them heads (a cop term for arrestee) because here what they
are doing is a class A misdemeanor. It's a class 4 felony on a
subsequent offense.

Is their any offence committed by letting the air out of someone's
bicycle tires? Would such a complaint even be seriously entertained?

i'd think you could make a case for vandalism and/or reckless endangerment.
might even be a decent case for tort.

brink

Quoted message said:

That's the most bizarre thing ... that the "profile" is to have a
highly waxed Hummer that never goes off-road. It is a demonstration of
conspicuous consumption in its purest form.

There is a big difference between buying a Hummer, Navigator, or
Escalade, versus a small SUV that is essentially the replacement for
station wagons, that no longer are widely available.

One very good way to encourage people to leave their SUVs at home when
not needed would be to re-structure the way auto insurance premiums are
determined. It is too expensive to add a small car to the fleet when you
have to pay the full amount of insurance on an SUV that is rarely
driven. I once asked an insurance person about this, and the reason they
gave for the way they do things, is that all the vehicles could be in
use at the same time if you lent one of your vehicles out.

In my area, I think that the main reason a lot of people buy SUVs is
because they don't want to put on tire chains when going to the
mountains in the winter, but they're hauling around all that extra
vehicle the rest of the year as well.

"Zoot Katz" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Thu, 15 Sep 2005 17:06:39 GMT, <[email hidden]>,
another scud enslaved nobody, "Nuck 'n Futz" <[email hidden]> piddled:

Quoted message said:

All I'm saying is that flattening the tires of some stranger's Explorer is
a
cowardly way of expressing one's holier-than-thou self.

How do feel about hit-and-run?

Whether it results in just minor property damage to your shiney scud
or death or injury to pedestrians and cyclists, about twenty percent
of you scud slaves prove it doesn't take backbone to be assholesl

that's human nature, whether a person is driving an automobile, or
accidentally lets their shopping cart slip and dings someone's car, or a
bicyclist rides through wet cement on a sidewalk. there will always be
people who won't stop and take responsibility for the damage they create.

brink

Bill Henry said:

Areas that get a lot of snow and ice often have a lot of SUVs. While
you can get around without 4-wheel drive in such areas, having it might
make the difference between being stuck and getting home.

And a lot of people around here get 4WD vehicles for the times they go
up to the snow. Half the time the CHP requires chains, the chains aren't
even needed, and it's such a hassle for some people to put them on that
they just buy an SUV as opposed to a minivan.

"Zoot Katz" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Fri, 16 Sep 2005 16:20:42 GMT,
<[email hidden]>, "Bill Sornson"

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

CARS SUCK! and so do _all_ the [censored] who defend that sickness that
is the status quo.

Except when YOU deem it acceptable to drive or ride in one???

Three interrogation points? oh my. Turn in your punctuation cop badge,
hypocrite.

I've not driven by *choice* for a long time.

It's the whole mindset of car-culture that nauseates me. It's the
personal identification with their vehicles which is sick. Scud
jockeys regard it as an extension of their body - "I love my car, it's
my baby", "You touch my car, I break your face", etc.

i wonder if any bike owners feel the same way about their bike, e.g. if they
discovered some guy messing with their bike.

ehhhh.... nah.

brink

gds said:

Will the energy apocolypse come before or after the nuclear apocolypse?

Well, I would more likely expect one to cause the other. i.e. The
energy apocalypse will cause a huge squabbling for resources which
will cause the nuclear nations to use their nukes in a last gasp
attempt to seize energy reserves and ensure they are the 'Last Man
Standing' as it were.

It almost makes me hope old T.S. Elliot turns out to be right.

"This is the way the world ends Not with a bang but a whimper."

--
Dane Buson - z u v e m b i @ u n i x b i g o t s . o r g
"If you're feeling good, don't worry. You'll get over it."
-Bolings postulate to Murphy's Law

SMS <[email hidden]> wrote in
news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

Andy Gee said:

What I find works second best is the fake ticket thing for SUVs
actually blocking bike lanes. No damage, lots of education and
thought.

Well at least fake tickets can be issued!

I once called the police to complain about the line of mini-vans and
SUVs parked in the bike lane near an elementary school, as parents
waited for school to let out. They wouldn't do anything, even though
the bike lane had "No Parking Any Time" signs. The explanation was
that those vehicles were not really parked, they were "paused."
Meanwhile, every bicyclist had to veer around these parked vehicles
into the street.

In New York, bicycle lanes are "no stopping" zones. I've never had a cop
not respond to clearing a bike lane from an obviously hazardous situation,
which is really the only time I'll actually narc on someone. I did speak
to a lawyer once about making my fake tickets "real" by documenting tham
and submitting them to the Parking Violations Bureau, but a citizen has no
standing to initiate such a prosecution. We have a law against private
prosecutions. There is a possibility in New York State that a semi-
official, semi-private organization could be formed like a local Society
for the prevention of Cruelty to Animals which would have standing to issue
citations.

--ag

"SMS" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I once called the police to complain about the line of mini-vans and SUVs
parked in the bike lane near an elementary school, as parents waited for
school to let out. They wouldn't do anything, even though the bike lane
had "No Parking Any Time" signs. The explanation was that those vehicles
were not really parked, they were "paused."

Two phenomena which I find fascinating:

The "Universal Speed Law": If your hat is on backward, you can drive as
fast as you wish.

The "Universal Parking Regulation": If you put your four-way flashers on,
you can park wherever you wish.

Fri, 16 Sep 2005 20:35:30 GMT,
<[email hidden]>, Neil Brooks

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Good gravy! Are you sure? Are you really really sure? I am fascinated
that you know so much about the motivations of SUV owners around you.
Have you been poking through their garbage for under-shredded data?

Notice (or fail to notice) that I described a particular group of
people: those for whom excess/status/prestige/masculinity do more to
drive their choice than does practicality/utility/need. That's not
everybody ... but I bet it's certainly a big bunch of 'em.

They're hopeless dupes and that's the way the industry likes them.
The largest advertisers in all mediums are purveyors of scuds. The
entire economy is geared toward flogging and maintaining that
soon-to-be obsolescent junk. GM makes more money from its credit
branch than its manufacturing branch. It's a house of cards. Too bad
that when if falls its negative impact will reach beyond those
willingly enslaved dupes.
--
zk

Fri, 16 Sep 2005 15:41:37 -0700, <[email hidden]>,

brink said:

or a bicyclist rides through wet cement on a sidewalk.

Try that one and get back to us.
--
zk

16 Sep 2005 16:09:44 -0700,
<[email hidden]>, "gds"

Quoted message said:

My guess is that you haven't spent much time in the real back country.
Come out here to osuthern AZ with a non high clearance non 4wd vehicle
and I promise you that you will get stuck and/or kill your vehicle on
the roads that I regularly drive.

What about bicycles? How do they fair?
Other than getting run off the road by your scud, that is.
--
zk

Zoot Katz said:

Fri, 16 Sep 2005 16:20:42 GMT,
<[email hidden]>, "Bill Sornson"

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

CARS SUCK! and so do _all_ the [censored] who defend that sickness
that is the status quo.

Except when YOU deem it acceptable to drive or ride in one???

Three interrogation points? oh my. Turn in your punctuation cop badge,
hypocrite.

I've not driven by *choice* for a long time.

So you /do/ drive now and again. That's what I recalled you saying about a
week ago. (But I'm a hypocrite for using three question marks??? LOL)

Quoted message said:

It's the whole mindset of car-culture that nauseates me. It's the
personal identification with their vehicles which is sick. Scud
jockeys regard it as an extension of their body - "I love my car, it's
my baby", "You touch my car, I break your face", etc.

When somebody thinks it's acceptable to violently assault another
person because they'd keyed a car or let air from its tires, gobbed on
the windscreen or just told 'em their scud is butt ugly and stinks,
that are symptoms of the sickness that is fostered by car culture

The popular notion that driving is a personal activity is totally
twisted when driving occurs in a public space.

Everywhere we look, cars and bad driving are deemed acceptable.
They're promoted in entertainment, advertising and language. It's
reinforced by the courts when grievous crimes are dismissed with a
wink and a nod.

That people are told to equate cars with freedom is the biggest
con-job yet. People are slaves to their scuds. They're mentally
crippled by their inability to conceive of life without their car.
They're physically hobbled by their dependency on cars.

And all the while the rest of us are forced to breathe the [censored] they
spew, dodge the mayhem they create and waste our resources to
accommodate them.

Yeah Bill, cars really do suck.

But you still use 'em. Puzzling.

Fri, 16 Sep 2005 15:39:26 -0700, <[email hidden]>,

brink said:

"Zoot Katz" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

15 Sep 2005 18:28:43 -0700,
<[email hidden]>,
"Bob" <[email hidden]> wrote, in part:

Quoted message said:

Ecowarriors? Young activists? Horse hockey. They are most likely simply
typical kids acting out their antisocial angst. BTW, in Illinois we'd
simply call them heads (a cop term for arrestee) because here what they
are doing is a class A misdemeanor. It's a class 4 felony on a
subsequent offense.

Is their any offence committed by letting the air out of someone's
bicycle tires? Would such a complaint even be seriously entertained?

i'd think you could make a case for vandalism and/or reckless endangerment.
might even be a decent case for tort.

Case? I bet cop won't even put down his doughnut to investigate.
--
zk

Fri, 16 Sep 2005 15:51:05 -0700, <[email hidden]>,

brink said:

i wonder if any bike owners feel the same way about their bike, e.g. if they
discovered some guy messing with their bike.

ehhhh.... nah.

Michelle's saddle was stolen over a year ago. She replaced it with a
bouquet of blue artificial flowers that's still there today. She rides
it all over town standing up on the pedals and has fantastic glutes.
Anyway, when I asked why she'd not replaced it, she shrugged and said
it's not worth getting worked up about or having another saddle stolen
and that the flowers are her statement of non attachment. I've gotta
admit it looks cool.
--
zk

In article <[email hidden]>,

jmt said:

Dear Guy;

Funny thing, the Evolution of these Vehicles. A few decades
ago, the only Apes possessing same were Duck Hunters, Farmers,
Construction Workers, you know, folks who might actually have some sort
of Reason for a Off-Road Truck with 4wD and a place to put their Doggie
and cooler(s) and 8 or 9 Implements of Destruction, etc(not that there's
Anything Wrong with That).

By my observations, such folks usually opt for 2wD
pickup trucks (often with lots of scar tissue on the body,)
which seem to serve their respective [a]vocations very well.
Duck hunters can fit a bunch of kennels in the bed, farmers
can put a stock rack on it to carry livestock, and construction
workers can huck a bunch of unwieldly-shaped & sized tools in
the back, maybe under a canopy for weather protection, or
locked in a big diamond-plate box welded & bolted onto the truck.

cheers,
Tom

--
-- Nothing is safe from me.
Above address is just a spam midden.
I'm really at: tkeats [curlicue] vcn [point] bc [point] ca

In rec.bicycles.misc Zoot Katz said:

Fri, 16 Sep 2005 15:41:37 -0700, <[email hidden]>,

brink said:

or a bicyclist rides through wet cement on a sidewalk.

Try that one and get back to us.

I know of at least one person doing it.

http://www.jwz.org/gruntle/cement.html

--
Dane Buson - z u v e m b i @ u n i x b i g o t s . o r g
"I never forget a face, but in your case I'll make an exception."
-Groucho Marx

Dear TK;

With the suv, the guns/dogs/coolers don't get wet, and are
accessible I suppose... Now, I like guns and dogs myself, but don't
wanna pay the entry fee for the high privilege of That much convenience.

I drive a PickEmUp truck too, ; )
jmt

Tom Keats said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

jmt said:

Dear Guy;

Funny thing, the Evolution of these Vehicles. A few decades
ago, the only Apes possessing same were Duck Hunters, Farmers,
Construction Workers, you know, folks who might actually have some sort
of Reason for a Off-Road Truck with 4wD and a place to put their Doggie
and cooler(s) and 8 or 9 Implements of Destruction, etc(not that there's
Anything Wrong with That).

By my observations, such folks usually opt for 2wD
pickup trucks (often with lots of scar tissue on the body,)
which seem to serve their respective [a]vocations very well.
Duck hunters can fit a bunch of kennels in the bed, farmers
can put a stock rack on it to carry livestock, and construction
workers can huck a bunch of unwieldly-shaped & sized tools in
the back, maybe under a canopy for weather protection, or
locked in a big diamond-plate box welded & bolted onto the truck.

cheers,
Tom

Fri, 16 Sep 2005 23:40:01 GMT,
<[email hidden]>, irrelevant as ever,
"Bill Sornson" <[email hidden]> had to write:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Yeah Bill, cars really do suck.

But you still use 'em. Puzzling.

I also use an Shop-Vac and an Electrolux.

You had a point?
--
zk