SUV Protest

Chris B. said:

Hell, I'll paste the whole thing for Google posterity:

snipz

Quoted message said:

Have you ever wondered why sport utility vehicle drivers seem like
such [censored]? Surely it's no coincidence that Terry McAuliffe,
chairman of the Dem-ocratic National Committee, tours Washington in
one of the biggest SUVs on the market, the Cadillac Escalade

LOL.

And here's what Howard Dean is currently driving:
http://www.publicityinsider.com/images/OscarMayer.jpg

Bill "too lazy to find a link that didn't spoil the punch line" S.

"SMS" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Bob the Cow said:

The "Universal Parking Regulation": If you put your four-way flashers
on, you can park wherever you wish.

Well the Honda Pilot that parked in the handicap space at my son's school
probably will not be doing that again, ever. One phone call was all it
took. It is a very expensive lesson.

A friend of mine, who died in 1996, was a quadriplegic. He was for a time a
peer counselor at the Paralyzed Veterans of America. He had a sign made for
the handicapped space outside the PVA storefront where he worked. It was
right under the "regular" handicapped sign. It said: "If you're not
handicapped when you park here, you WILL be when you leave".

"Bill Sornson" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Zoot Katz said:

I also use an Shop-Vac and an Electrolux.

You had a point?

That you'd look rather silly if you ranted and raved about Shop-Vacs and
Electroluxes (AND their users). That's all.

He's developing another video game starring himself, to be debuted on
rec.oldfashionedbrooms.misc, and he's making up nicknames for the [censored]
who use electric power to sweep up dust.

"Ryan Cousineau" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

The best
meat in town is at Bonetti's Meats in Aldergrove.

Can't be beat...

Quoted message said:

By bike, it would be
an all-day trip to get there and back with a load. My mother-in-law
would be unable to make the trip at all due to health limitations.

By car it's maybe 90 minutes round trip, and we do it about once a month
to pick up meat. I value tasty meat, and I value my time.

So now you've admitted to being not only a scud junkie but an animal eater.
Be prepared for a flame-torching by Zoot. Maybe even a "plonking">

"the black rose" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I can't even imagine what it must be like to live with all that
self-inflicted rancor, anger, and bitterness. What a frightful world to
live in! I feel pretty sorry for him.

Oh, no -- there are pretty bricks, and a yellow sky, and really peppy, if
repetitive and maddening, music. There are worse places to live than in
your own video game.

Sat, 17 Sep 2005 03:05:28 GMT,
<[email hidden]>, the black rose

Quoted message said:

I can't even imagine what it must be like to live with all that
self-inflicted rancor, anger, and bitterness. What a frightful world to
live in! I feel pretty sorry for him.

Your pity is misplaced.
You're the one unable to imagine or manifest a better lifestyle
without a car.
That's is truly sad.
But I don't feel sorry for you because you brought it on yourself.
--
zk

Fri, 16 Sep 2005 21:28:08 -0700,
<[email hidden]>, Mark Hickey

Quoted message said:

Thing is, he's just as "effective" as Vandeman. I can't think of a
better way to mute the message of bicycles as transportation than to
do what Zoot does.

I ride responsibly and I celebrate cycling. I also like tweaking the
grid-locked drones noses and thumbing mine at their impotence.
How's that muting the message?
--
zk

Fri, 16 Sep 2005 06:33:50 -0700,
<[email hidden]>, Mark Hickey

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I'm wondering how you're managing to post on the 'net without using
electricity.

Pedal power can easily maintain a notebook battery.

Not all electricity generation spews green house gasses - hydro, wind
and solar for instance. There are people online who do live off the
grid, ya know.

I know, but it's *almost* virtually impossible to not live in a way
that causes pollution. So it's not a matter of whether you do or not
- it's simply a matter of how much (which was my point).

I agree we should all do "as little damage as possible", but let's not
delude ourselves into thinking that we're not part of the problem too.

Gee, I do my laundry in cold water, buy local organic produce, cycle
and recycle, use public transit, don't fly, use energy efficient light
bulbs and have never supported bombing any one. How about you?
--
zk

Sat, 17 Sep 2005 02:59:16 GMT,
<[email hidden]>, Ryan Cousineau
<[email hidden]> wrote. in part:
\

Quoted message said:

People are smarter than you think, Zoot. The most important effect of
car culture has been to increase the reach of average people.

The average driver has a media besotted quarter-horsepower brain which
is why their multi-horsepoower carapaces cause so many problems.
\

Quoted message said:

By car it's maybe 90 minutes round trip, and we do it about once a month
to pick up meat. I value tasty meat, and I value my time.

That and a hundred other reasons are why I own a car.

\
Good grief, spare me your excuses if they're all as "valid" as that
one.
--
zk

Sat, 17 Sep 2005 00:45:32 GMT,
<[email hidden]>, "Bill Sornson"

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> Yeah Bill, cars really do suck.

But you still use 'em. Puzzling.

I also use an Shop-Vac and an Electrolux.

You had a point?

That you'd look rather silly if you ranted and raved about Shop-Vacs and
Electroluxes (AND their users). That's all.

You don't want to hear the vacuum rant. I dislike having to use any
tool with a cord at one end and a hose at the other. Power washers are
the worst. They've two hoses and a cord.

I don't drive by "choice". I'm sometimes required to chauffer my
employer in their car. We're all safer when they're not driving.
--
zk

I submit that on or about Fri, 16 Sep 2005 22:41:36 GMT, the person
known to the court as SMS <[email hidden]> made a statement
(<[email hidden]> in Your Honour's bundle) to
the following effect:

Quoted message said:

There is a big difference between buying a Hummer, Navigator, or
Escalade, versus a small SUV that is essentially the replacement for
station wagons, that no longer are widely available.

Don't tell these people, they think station wagons are alive and well:
http://www.volvocars.us/Showroom/V70/

Guy
--
May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after posting.
http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk

85% of helmet statistics are made up, 69% of them at CHS, Puget Sound

Buck said:

Awww, come on guys! Both of you can't get the numbers?!?

SHOW ME THE NUMBERS!

Then we can go on with this little sidetrack in the conversation....

Try the California Report for Leaf Blower pollution, other numbers are
available in other areas of the same site.

http://www.arb.ca.gov/msprog/leafblow/leafblow.htm

Most of the numbers are broken down by the type of pollution.

W

Zoot Katz said:

Fri, 16 Sep 2005 20:35:30 GMT,
<[email hidden]>, Neil Brooks

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Good gravy! Are you sure? Are you really really sure? I am fascinated
that you know so much about the motivations of SUV owners around you.
Have you been poking through their garbage for under-shredded data?

Notice (or fail to notice) that I described a particular group of
people: those for whom excess/status/prestige/masculinity do more to
drive their choice than does practicality/utility/need. That's not
everybody ... but I bet it's certainly a big bunch of 'em.

They're hopeless dupes and that's the way the industry likes them.
The largest advertisers in all mediums are purveyors of scuds. The
entire economy is geared toward flogging and maintaining that
soon-to-be obsolescent junk. GM makes more money from its credit
branch than its manufacturing branch. It's a house of cards. Too bad
that when if falls its negative impact will reach beyond those
willingly enslaved dupes.

Zoot, take another pill, the Zoloft is wearing off....

The problem is, if you remove the car, what are you replacing it with.
Transit is one option, buses for moderate density areas, street cars,
subways and trains for high density areas. But what about low density
areas, like rural areas. Bikes are an option, for some areas, where the
distances are fairly short, expecting someone to pedal a century to get
to work, and another to get home, isn't often an option. I know one
couple that lives half way between their jobs, and it's still 50 miles
each way.

I figure that to eliminate the car culture will take at least 50 - 100
years.....

W

Mark Hickey said:

If you were riding along the curb, you'd have to worry about drivers
turning into you from the left, cutting you off with a right hook,
crossing in front of you from the school entrance, etc.

These drivers are not waiting for their children to walk out to the
sidewalk to get in the vehicle. G-d no. They are waiting to turn into
the drop-off/pick-up circle in front of the school. They will not be
exiting the bicycle lane into the street, they will be turning right
into the school. Of course nearly all of them live within 1/2 mile of
the school, no more than a 15 minute walk.

They do exit the drive-way when they are done (right turn only, unless
they ignore the sign) but they are pretty careful about that, as long as
the bicycles aren't riding in the wrong direction in the bicycle lane.

See my web site, "http://drivetoschoolhallofshame.com" for how these
parents ignore crosswalks.

Ryan Cousineau said:

Interesting lesson I learned from hanging out at traffic court in Ottawa
(helping friends fight a ticket; they won): at least in that venue,
almost every parking fine is cheaper than illegal use of a handicap
spot. If you can't find a spot and are desperate, double-park or park in
a no-parking zone before you use the handicap spot.

On private property, i.e. shopping centers, only the handicap spaces are
ticketable by the police. The shopping center can have up tow-away
zones, but in reality they won't do anything except in extreme
circumstances. Red zones, white zones, yellow zones, etc., are
meaningless on private property, but the blue zone is very meaningful.

I once parked in a red zone for a minute, and came out to see a
motorcycle cop writing a ticket for a handicap violation. He pointed to
a blue zone nearby, and said that it applied. I got it thrown out, but
it was a pain in the butt to go through the process, so I won't do that
again.

Note that you cannot even wait in a handicap zone, in your car.

"Just zis Guy, you know?" wrote ...

Quoted message said:

I submit that on or about Fri, 16 Sep 2005 22:41:36 GMT, the person
known to the court as SMS made a statement to
the following effect:

Quoted message said:

There is a big difference between buying a Hummer, Navigator, or
Escalade, versus a small SUV that is essentially the replacement for
station wagons, that no longer are widely available.

Don't tell these people, they think station wagons are alive and well:
http://www.volvocars.us/Showroom/V70/

Guy

I think the key phrase there is "widely available", which Volvos do not
appear to me to be in this country.
--
mark

Quoted message said:

De-construct this. It's too damn late. The highways were
built, the neighborhoods were destroyed, the parking lots
built, the suburbs built as far as the eye can see. This
happened a long time ago. We're on the back side of it
now. Where were you 30 years ago when your tantrums
might have actually done some good? All of this happened
because people love the idea of one person-one car and
they demanded it. People wanted their cars and their
houses in the suburbs. The only thing that's going
to de-construct this is Hubbert's Peak and the end
of the cheap oil era. The current situation is untenable
and unsustainable on its own, contains the seeds of its
own demise, and no amount of 'protest' is going to make
a damn bit of difference compared to that.

Great post. It captures the curmudgeonly attitude I've acquired
lately.

A small number of people in our society conserve energy, ride bikes,
etc. It is currently a fringe activity. Most people don't even
understand the nature of the problem. A CNBC poll today asks the
age-old question "who's to blame?" for high gasoline prices. Barely a
third of the respondents are ready to accept that it is us, the
consumers, who are paying these prices:

Domestic oil producers: 45%
Congress: 5%
OPEC: 21%
Consumers: 29%

That's the state of "energy planning" in our society. Most people
drive they cars and then "blame" domestic oil producers or opec.

I submit that on or about Sat, 17 Sep 2005 14:36:55 GMT, the person
known to the court as "mark" <[email hidden]> made a statement
(<[email hidden]> in Your
Honour's bundle) to the following effect:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Don't tell these people, they think station wagons are alive and well:
http://www.volvocars.us/Showroom/V70/

Quoted message said:

I think the key phrase there is "widely available", which Volvos do not
appear to me to be in this country.

Owned by Ford, don'tchaknow. Who also make the Mondeo wagon (I think
sold as the Taunus over there). The GM Omega is also available as a
wagon (very spacious), as are the Saab 9-3 and 9-5, the Honda Accord,
the Verso variants of the various Toyotas and so on.

In my experience the phrase "station wagons are unavailable these
days" is semantically equivalent to "station wagons returning under
20mpg are unavailable these days", the statement is every bit as much
a pretext as the "reasons" advanced by many non-cyclists for driving
improbably short distances.

If you want something bigger, then minivans are the natural successor
to the old Mercury wagons. SUVs are and always have been, for most of
their drivers, a fashion accessory. Trucks are functional,
Land-Rovers and the original plastic-seated Land Cruisers are
functional but uncomfortable, SUVs are, in the main, for people who
just want to barge everyone else out of their way while they pretend
to themselves that they are a rugged outdoorsman rather than an obese,
unfit, office-bound married father of two.

Guy
--
May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after posting.
http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk

85% of helmet statistics are made up, 69% of them at CHS, Puget Sound

Zoot Katz said:

Fri, 16 Sep 2005 15:41:37 -0700, <[email hidden]>,

brink said:

or a bicyclist rides through wet cement on a sidewalk.

Try that one and get back to us.

Bike messengers are known to utilize coned-off construction
zones to the chagrin of orange vested folk whose job it is
to keep them out. I know of two local messengers who
succumbed to hub-deep cement of a freshly poured slab,
causing their bikes to stop cold and their bodies to be
launched head first into the slop. Unfortunately I was
not there to witness either event. I imagine that a few
of the orange vested city workers there laughed heartily,
while the rest just stood around doing nothing.

Robert

In article <[email hidden]>,

Bob the Cow said:

"Ryan Cousineau" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

The best
meat in town is at Bonetti's Meats in Aldergrove.

Can't be beat...

Quoted message said:

By bike, it would be
an all-day trip to get there and back with a load. My mother-in-law
would be unable to make the trip at all due to health limitations.

By car it's maybe 90 minutes round trip, and we do it about once a month
to pick up meat. I value tasty meat, and I value my time.

So now you've admitted to being not only a scud junkie but an animal eater.
Be prepared for a flame-torching by Zoot. Maybe even a "plonking">

Hardly. Zoot (or his offline alter-ego, who shall remain nameless) and I
are acquaintances. We may disagree (vehemently) on many issues, but
that's not as important as you might think.

--
Ryan Cousineau [email hidden] http://www.wiredcola.com/
"I don't want kids who are thinking about going into mathematics
to think that they have to take drugs to succeed." -Paul Erdos