Tandem Brakes & Wheels

"Sam Salt" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

As per my previous post I am thinking of purchasing a tandem.

The more I read the more I realise that tandeming appears to be very
different proposition from riding a solo.

With regard to the braking,there seems to be two schools of thought
regarding disc brakes,especially on the front.

There is the *Thorn* view which seems to say that a disc on the front is
equal to drinking cyanide and it is only a matter of time before death
beats a path to your door as the forces involved in braking with a disc
will eventualy rip the wheel from the dropouts with dire results.

The Thorn view is actually rather more sophisticated than that - they don't
consider any disc braked forks to be suitable for tandem use, which rather
surprises those of use riding MTB tandems with bouncy forks and 20mm axles.

Quoted message said:

Then there are the views of those I have read on the Tandem Club site who
say there is no problem and what is all the fuss about.

Only some of those...

Quoted message said:

The machine I have my eye on is the Landescape Custom Tour which has discs
front and back with a V-brake on the rear rim as a third brake.Now I can't
imagine Landescape producing a death-trap on wheels so I wondered if any
one had any more views to throw into my confused melting pot.

Read this page:

http://www.ne.jp/asahi/julesandjames/home/disk_and_quick_release/index.html

Some people believe James, others don't. Clearly Pete Bird (aka Landescape)
is in the latter camp.

So: Where is the disc mount on the landescape fork? (rear, like normal) What
angle are the dropouts at? What flavour QR skewer do they use? (synergy -
shimano is probably stronger) How big are the lawyer lips on the fork? What
have they done about the problem mentioned in the page above?

You'll probably be ok, but I wouldn't buy that fork with that brake.

Quoted message said:

Secondly,it would be used virtually 100% on the road,day trips,touring
etc.

26" or 700C wheels ?

Once again I don't suppose there is a definative answer but something to
think about would be welcome.

I've bent 700C tandem wheels on road, and I haven't bent 26" tandem wheels.
That was good enough for me.

We did once have a freewheel failure in Ireland. With the 26" wheels, I
could just go to the nearest bike shop and buy a new wheel to get us home.
(it was pretty dreadful, but we made it).

cheers,
clive

Sam Salt wrote on 17/07/2006 15:25 +0100:

Quoted message said:

The machine I have my eye on is the Landescape Custom Tour which has
discs front and back with a V-brake on the rear rim as a third brake.Now
I can't imagine Landescape producing a death-trap on wheels so I
wondered if any one had any more views to throw into my confused melting
pot.

Pete Bird, the man behind Landescape, is a reputable person in the
tandem field and he will have got it right. Before Landescape for many
years he was Swallow Tandems - a very well respected custom build
company - before he went to Dawes to sort out their tandems. Talk to
Pete about it - he knows all there is to know on tandems.

--
Tony

"Anyone who conducts an argument by appealing to authority is not using
his intelligence; he is just using his memory."
- Leonardo da Vinci

Tony Raven said:

Sam Salt wrote on 17/07/2006 15:25 +0100:

Quoted message said:

The machine I have my eye on is the Landescape Custom Tour which has
discs front and back with a V-brake on the rear rim as a third
brake.Now I can't imagine Landescape producing a death-trap on wheels
so I wondered if any one had any more views to throw into my confused
melting pot.

Pete Bird, the man behind Landescape, is a reputable person in the
tandem field and he will have got it right. Before Landescape for many
years he was Swallow Tandems - a very well respected custom build
company - before he went to Dawes to sort out their tandems. Talk to
Pete about it - he knows all there is to know on tandems.

Thanks gents for your input.

Sam Salt

in message <[email hidden]>, Sam Salt

(') said:

As per my previous post I am thinking of purchasing a tandem.

The more I read the more I realise that tandeming appears to be very
different proposition from riding a solo.

With regard to the braking,there seems to be two schools of thought
regarding disc brakes,especially on the front.

There is the *Thorn* view which seems to say that a disc on the front
is
equal to drinking cyanide and it is only a matter of time before
death
beats a path to your door as the forces involved in braking with a disc
will eventualy rip the wheel from the dropouts with dire results.

This is the James Annan issue.

It appears to be the case (but this is still controversial) that if you
have the disk caliper mounted behind the fork (as is normal) and you
have ordinary downward facing dropouts, then braking can (very
occasionally) cause the wheel to eject from the dropouts /even/ /if/ the
wheel was correctly installed and tightened. This is very occasional,
but it's inevitably a pretty nasty accident, and one guy to whom it
appears to have happened has been paralysed.

You can prevent it happening by using a monoblade fork, or a 'through
axle' type fork as used for downhill mountain biking, or by mounting the
caliper on the front of the right hand fork leg instead of the back of
the left hand fork leg.

--
[email hidden] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

;; Life would be much easier if I had the source code.

Simon Brooke said:

in message <[email hidden]>, Sam Salt

(') said:

As per my previous post I am thinking of purchasing a tandem.

The more I read the more I realise that tandeming appears to be very
different proposition from riding a solo.

With regard to the braking,there seems to be two schools of thought
regarding disc brakes,especially on the front.

There is the *Thorn* view which seems to say that a disc on the front
is
equal to drinking cyanide and it is only a matter of time before
death
beats a path to your door as the forces involved in braking with a disc
will eventualy rip the wheel from the dropouts with dire results.

This is the James Annan issue.

It appears to be the case (but this is still controversial) that if you
have the disk caliper mounted behind the fork (as is normal) and you
have ordinary downward facing dropouts, then braking can (very
occasionally) cause the wheel to eject from the dropouts /even/ /if/ the
wheel was correctly installed and tightened. This is very occasional,
but it's inevitably a pretty nasty accident, and one guy to whom it
appears to have happened has been paralysed.

You can prevent it happening by using a monoblade fork, or a 'through
axle' type fork as used for downhill mountain biking, or by mounting the
caliper on the front of the right hand fork leg instead of the back of
the left hand fork leg.

--
[email hidden] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

;; Life would be much easier if I had the source code.

Ah but can you run a SON dyno hub if it's on the right front :-) (still waiting to see if Mr Larrington has managed to do this yet :-)

Bryan

I've got 700c wheels (36 spoke front / 48 rear), ordinary centre pull
rim on the front, and V on the back, plus drum brake on the back
operated by the stoker.

I find it doesn't stop as quick as I'd like, especially with a trailer
full of shopping. I think I'd like a disc brake on the front, but that
would probably mean new forks - not sure if I could get any compatible
with my 1950 frame. I'd make sure it was a calliper in front of the
fork variety so the wheel didn't pop out, and I'd probably upgrade to
48 spokes at the same time.

The drum on the back is good for long downhills, I think other types of
brake can overheat (not sure about discs).

I stick to 700c wheels as that's what most of my bikes are, so tyres
and wheels are interchangeable if necessary. I sometimes borrow the
tandem rear wheel for my solo when on a long tour. You might choose 26"
for the same reason.

cheers,

Bob.

In article <[email hidden]>
Clive George <[email hidden]> wrote:
<snip>

Quoted message said:

Read this page:

http://www.ne.jp/asahi/julesandjames/home/disk_and_quick_release/index.html

Interesting reading and seems pretty credible to me, but you have to
wonder why it hasn't been tested in the US courts.

Bob wrote on 18/07/2006 12:44 +0100:

Quoted message said:

I've got 700c wheels (36 spoke front / 48 rear), ordinary centre pull
rim on the front, and V on the back, plus drum brake on the back
operated by the stoker.

I find it doesn't stop as quick as I'd like, especially with a trailer
full of shopping. I think I'd like a disc brake on the front, but that
would probably mean new forks - not sure if I could get any compatible
with my 1950 frame. I'd make sure it was a calliper in front of the
fork variety so the wheel didn't pop out, and I'd probably upgrade to
48 spokes at the same time.

Try Magura hydraulic rim brakes on the front. We have them fitted to
our two tandems plus an Arai drag brake on the back. We've toured in
the Swiss Alps towing a BOB trailer full of camping equipment for four
and they stop perfectly well, even on steep downhills. Not quite as
good as my bikes with disc brakes but much much better than cable rim
brakes of any sort.

--
Tony

"Anyone who conducts an argument by appealing to authority is not using
his intelligence; he is just using his memory."
- Leonardo da Vinci

Rob Morley said the following on 18/07/2006 13:58:

Quoted message said:

Interesting reading and seems pretty credible to me, but you have to
wonder why it hasn't been tested in the US courts.

It is all very credible, and if you have forks without "lawyer lips" you
really should check the Q/R regularly - in fact you should anyway. If
you have one of the hubs affected by Shimano's voluntary recall (as I
did, but not on the bike with discs) then make sure you get the skewer
replaced.

With regards to the reference to having to wear gloves to minimise the
pain in the palm - Shimano (and others) say that the lever should be
tight enough to leave a distinct mark in your palm, by squeezing it
towards the fork blade between fingers and palm, and to do that can hurt
to some extent. So if that test was done by following the
manufacturer's advice, the wheel wouldn't have dropped out. This is a
little subjective though - how do you define "hurt"?

Ultimately though, I'm aware of this potential problem, so do check
regularly. It's the people that aren't aware and don't check who are at
risk. The lawyer lips on newer forks will at least prevent the wheel
dropping out, assuming they notice that the wheel has become loose!

The other alternatice of course is to use 20mm bolt-through axles, which
neatly removes the issue.

--
Paul Boyd
http://www.paul-boyd.co.uk/

In article <[email hidden]>, Bryan.2b4u59
@no-mx.forums.cyclingforums.com says...

Quoted message said:

Simon Brooke said:

in message <[email hidden]>, Sam Salt

(') said:

As per my previous post I am thinking of purchasing a tandem.

The more I read the more I realise that tandeming appears to be very
different proposition from riding a solo.

With regard to the braking,there seems to be two schools of thought
regarding disc brakes,especially on the front.

There is the *Thorn* view which seems to say that a disc on the

front

Quoted message said:

is
equal to drinking cyanide and it is only a matter of time before
death
beats a path to your door as the forces involved in braking with a

disc

Quoted message said:

will eventualy rip the wheel from the dropouts with dire results.

This is the James Annan issue.

It appears to be the case (but this is still controversial) that if
you
have the disk caliper mounted behind the fork (as is normal) and you
have ordinary downward facing dropouts, then braking can (very
occasionally) cause the wheel to eject from the dropouts /even/ /if/
the
wheel was correctly installed and tightened. This is very occasional,
but it's inevitably a pretty nasty accident, and one guy to whom it
appears to have happened has been paralysed.

You can prevent it happening by using a monoblade fork, or a 'through
axle' type fork as used for downhill mountain biking, or by mounting
the
caliper on the front of the right hand fork leg instead of the back of
the left hand fork leg.

--
[email hidden] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

;; Life would be much easier if I had the source code.

Ah but can you run a SON dyno hub if it's on the right front :-) (still
waiting to see if Mr Larrington has managed to do this yet :-)

You may have to wait a while, as although the parts for the new fixer
and, even more so the boxes in which they were shipped, are busy
reducing the floor space in the kitchen of Larrington Towers to a state
where the taking of Naughty Pictures is a physical impossibility, the
suppliers of the frame are on their collective holibobs until the end of
the month, chiz.

The light to be powered by said Schmidt ain't here yet, either...

--
Dave Larrington - <http://www.legslarry.beerdrinkers.co.uk/>
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