Teaching proper braking to children

chris French said:

A friend of our's 6 yo daughter - had a nasty tumble recently.

was going down a pathway realised she'd got a bit too fast, slammed on
the anchors a bit hard and went over the handlebars head first into a
concrete post - it put a really good dent in her helmet. got some other
general bruises and scratches, but basically ok, but a bit of scarey
parent moment I think.

Anyway, any suggestions for helping to teach more controlled braking?

Without a helmet she might be more aware...

In article <[email hidden]>, chris French
[email hidden] says...

Quoted message said:

A friend of our's 6 yo daughter - had a nasty tumble recently.

was going down a pathway realised she'd got a bit too fast, slammed on
the anchors a bit hard and went over the handlebars head first into a
concrete post - it put a really good dent in her helmet. got some other
general bruises and scratches, but basically ok, but a bit of scarey
parent moment I think.

Anyway, any suggestions for helping to teach more controlled braking?

Get her to ride down the path a few more times. :-)
Are you sure the bike fits her and the brakes are set up properly?

chris French said:

A friend of our's 6 yo daughter - had a nasty tumble recently.

was going down a pathway realised she'd got a bit too fast, slammed on
the anchors a bit hard and went over the handlebars head first into a
concrete post - it put a really good dent in her helmet. got some other
general bruises and scratches, but basically ok, but a bit of scarey
parent moment I think.

Anyway, any suggestions for helping to teach more controlled braking?

Correct braking comes with experience and is natural once a child has
a feel for the bike.

Sheldon Brown suggests that the front brake only needs to be used, and
while this may be technically correct, for emergency stops I teach
children to use both brakes, applying the rear brake slightly before
the front brake.

To teach emergency stops, stand well back from the child and ask them
to cycle towards you as fast as possible, braking as late as possible,
aiming to end up with their front wheel just in front of your feet.
Their feet should remain on the pedals until the bike has come to a
complete standstill. Should they apply their front brake too hard and
go over the handlebars they'll have a soft landing! (The child should
set the pedal at the 'two o'clock' position as soon as they can after
stopping, so they are ready to set off again.)

Once the child has perfected emergency stops, teach them to use their
brakes to slow down. Cycling in a large circle, ask the child to slow
the bike to as slow a speed as possible, by very gently applying both
brakes, and then speed up again. Feet should remain on the pedals at
all times.

When you are confident the child has a good feel for the bike, send
them down a steep slope. The child should be able to control their
speed by keeping both brakes partially applied. Feet should remain on
the pedals at all times, though not pedalling.

Teach the child to keep two or more fingers over both brake levers at
all times, and never to take their feet off the pedals unless stopped.

A novice cyclist's instinctive reaction to panic at going too fast,
especially down a hill, is to [censored] at the brakes, take their feet
off the pedals and lean forward to see any point of impact. This is a
sure way to crash. I have observed a child do exactly this while they
have been in my care - she was the one child who missed my playground
based session on braking, and I should never have allowed her to
progress to cycling on the road until that session had been completed.

"chris French" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

A friend of our's 6 yo daughter - had a nasty tumble recently.

was going down a pathway realised she'd got a bit too fast, slammed on
the anchors a bit hard and went over the handlebars head first into a
concrete post - it put a really good dent in her helmet. got some other
general bruises and scratches, but basically ok, but a bit of scarey
parent moment I think.

Anyway, any suggestions for helping to teach more controlled braking?

Applying the rear brake slightly earlier might help. Although not
applicable in an emergency situation, I've found when I've got new pads it
helps to apply them gently well in advance so they're starting to bite
before pulling them hard to come to a stop.

But then again, I'm a lot heavier than they typical 6 year old (and most
multiples thereof!) and my brakes are rarely good enough to throw me over
the handlebars despite trying!
--
peter

Cheap train tickets database
http://www.petereverett.co.uk/tickets/

Email sent to this address is generally deleted upon arrival
Visit website if you want to contact me

Following on from Tom Crispin's message. . .

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Anyway, any suggestions for helping to teach more controlled braking?

/Please/ don't make it complicated. Even with your long list including
pedal position 2'o'clock etc you left out "push back with arms". My
point is that these are kids on bikes not A-level students.

But controlled and fierce braking is something cyclists (whether
trainers or not) take for granted, and as you point out, overlooking it
could spell disaster. So a useful thread.

OT : I still flick each brake at the crest of a descent this goes with a
thought of a plan and what risks there might be such as loose gravel on
that tight bend at the bottom.

Tom's post follows:

Quoted message said:

Correct braking comes with experience and is natural once a child has
a feel for the bike.

Sheldon Brown suggests that the front brake only needs to be used, and
while this may be technically correct, for emergency stops I teach
children to use both brakes, applying the rear brake slightly before
the front brake.

To teach emergency stops, stand well back from the child and ask them
to cycle towards you as fast as possible, braking as late as possible,
aiming to end up with their front wheel just in front of your feet.
Their feet should remain on the pedals until the bike has come to a
complete standstill. Should they apply their front brake too hard and
go over the handlebars they'll have a soft landing! (The child should
set the pedal at the 'two o'clock' position as soon as they can after
stopping, so they are ready to set off again.)

Once the child has perfected emergency stops, teach them to use their
brakes to slow down. Cycling in a large circle, ask the child to slow
the bike to as slow a speed as possible, by very gently applying both
brakes, and then speed up again. Feet should remain on the pedals at
all times.

When you are confident the child has a good feel for the bike, send
them down a steep slope. The child should be able to control their
speed by keeping both brakes partially applied. Feet should remain on
the pedals at all times, though not pedalling.

Teach the child to keep two or more fingers over both brake levers at
all times, and never to take their feet off the pedals unless stopped.

A novice cyclist's instinctive reaction to panic at going too fast,
especially down a hill, is to [censored] at the brakes, take their feet
off the pedals and lean forward to see any point of impact. This is a
sure way to crash. I have observed a child do exactly this while they
have been in my care - she was the one child who missed my playground
based session on braking, and I should never have allowed her to
progress to cycling on the road until that session had been completed.

--
PETER FOX Not the same since the pancake business flopped
[email hidden]
2 Tees Close, Witham, Essex.
Gravity beer in Essex <http://www.eminent.demon.co.uk>

On Thu, 12 Apr 2007 01:42:21 +0100
chris French <[email hidden]> wrote:

Experience is a very good and quick teacher ...

Quoted message said:

was going down a pathway realised she'd got a bit too fast,
slammed on the anchors a bit hard and went over the handlebars head
first

I did exactly that myself. Once. It wasn't on my first bike,
but rather the first time I rode a bike with UK brakes.

Quoted message said:

into a
concrete post - it put a really good dent in her helmet.

Except we didn't have silly hats in my day. I just got up,
sorted myself out, and walked the (now somewhat bent) bike
back home.

--
not me guv

"I'm able-bodied. Why should I want a car?"

Nick Kew said:

On Thu, 12 Apr 2007 01:42:21 +0100
chris French <[email hidden]> wrote:

Experience is a very good and quick teacher ...

Quoted message said:

was going down a pathway realised she'd got a bit too fast,
slammed on the anchors a bit hard and went over the handlebars head
first

I did exactly that myself. Once. It wasn't on my first bike,
but rather the first time I rode a bike with UK brakes.

Quoted message said:

into a
concrete post - it put a really good dent in her helmet.

Except we didn't have silly hats in my day. I just got up,
sorted myself out, and walked the (now somewhat bent) bike
back home.

Yes you did have silly hats, I think; you wore them to football games and
if you were in a panto.

Tom Crispin said:

Sheldon Brown suggests that the front brake only needs to be used,

Not in all situations. Exceptions are mentioned.

Quoted message said:

and
while this may be technically correct, for emergency stops I teach
children to use both brakes, applying the rear brake slightly before
the front brake.

Applying the rear before the front won't do anything to stop the rider going
over the bars if the front is later applied too hard, will make the rear
tyre more likely to skid and the rider more likely to loose control, and
will reduce stopping distance because time is being lost while the front
brake is not being used - even if that is just for a fraction of a second.
I think teaching this also gives the wrong message that the rear brake is
more important - since important things tend to be done first.

If both brakes are going to be used generally, it's better to apply them at
the same time, IMHO.

~PB

chris French said:

A friend of our's 6 yo daughter - had a nasty tumble recently.

was going down a pathway realised she'd got a bit too fast, slammed
on the anchors a bit hard and went over the handlebars head first
into a concrete post - it put a really good dent in her helmet. got
some other general bruises and scratches, but basically ok, but a bit
of scarey parent moment I think.

Anyway, any suggestions for helping to teach more controlled braking?

When you need to slow down quickly, you've got to brace yourself by pushing
against the bars while braking. How exactly you teach this to a 6 yo, I
don't really know.

~PB

Pete Biggs said:

Applying the rear before the front won't do anything to stop the rider going
over the bars if the front is later applied too hard, will make the rear
tyre more likely to skid and the rider more likely to loose control, and
will reduce stopping distance because time is being lost while the front
brake is not being used - even if that is just for a fraction of a second.
I think teaching this also gives the wrong message that the rear brake is
more important - since important things tend to be done first.

If both brakes are going to be used generally, it's better to apply them at
the same time, IMHO.

I'm inclined to agree with PB here.

When doing my trainer training we did all sorts of stuff on
demonstrating how the front is really more important, but I don't recall
anything in particular on the overall sequence how to brake, aside from
not 100% power all at once. So as above, don't make it any more
complicated than it needs to be.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email hidden] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

I scribbled:

Quoted message said:

Applying the rear before the front won't do anything to stop the
rider going over the bars if the front is later applied too hard,
will make the rear tyre more likely to skid and the rider more likely
to loose control, and will reduce stopping distance because time is
being lost while the front brake is not being used

I mean /increase/ the distance it takes to stop.

~PB

"_" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Without a helmet she might be more aware...

I think you'd find she'd be more injured, not more aware. Children arent
noted for their awareness of possible injury, and im fairly sure that it
would never cross the mind of a 6 year old. Letting children out without
helmets is a nonsensical suggestion.

"chris French" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

A friend of our's 6 yo daughter - had a nasty tumble recently.

was going down a pathway realised she'd got a bit too fast, slammed on
the anchors a bit hard and went over the handlebars head first into a
concrete post - it put a really good dent in her helmet. got some other
general bruises and scratches, but basically ok, but a bit of scarey
parent moment I think.

Anyway, any suggestions for helping to teach more controlled braking?
--
Chris French

Personally I think this is something really young kids learn early on. And
its something that cant really be taught as it is a "feel" thing, like
muscle memory. Kids for decades have been going over the handlebars and
picking themselves up again to get on with it, its done the vast majority no
harm, and with a helmet it will continue to do even fewer kids harm. Just
part of the "ropes" I think. You can spend all day teaching them that they
dont need to grab a fist full, but if theyve never done it before they dont
know what its like to not do! Plus its equipment-relative, i nearly went
over the bars the first time i tried my 4-pot discs, despite many years of
biking, because I was eager to try their bite and had underestimated them.

"Coyoteboy" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"_" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Without a helmet she might be more aware...

I think you'd find she'd be more injured, not more aware. Children arent
noted for their awareness of possible injury, and im fairly sure that it
would never cross the mind of a 6 year old. Letting children out without
helmets is a nonsensical suggestion.

<klaxon sounds>

Do you want the short rebuttal, or the full one?

Short one:

Suggesting that children need to wear helmets is nonsensical. Exhibit a, my
mate who at age 6 or so had 'cracked his head open' many times, without
obvious side-effect. Nobody considered wearing helmets then.

The full one is available at www.cyclehelmets.org, but requires a bit of
work on your part to understand it.

clive

Quoted message said:

How exactly you teach this to a 6 yo, I
don't really know.

Show and tell? Exaggerate the motions, explain why, lift the back of the
bike up while she's sat on it, move her forward and lift it easy, get
her to sit back and you can't lift her, that sort of thing. Don't worry
about the language used, (I mean grown up rather than Anglo Saxon!!) 6yo
cyclists will be OK with the concept of moving their weight around to
maintain equilibrium; they have been using the technique since hey
learned to walk!

hth,

Tony B

Clive George said:

Suggesting that children need to wear helmets is nonsensical. Exhibit a, my
mate who at age 6 or so had 'cracked his head open' many times, without
obvious side-effect. Nobody considered wearing helmets then.

It's a choice, not a need.

However, it makes good sense for a parent to ask a child to wear a
helmet when learning to ride on a hard surface, especially when your
mate who at the age of 6 or so had 'cracked his head open' many times,
may have been saved from a few visits to casualty had he been wearing
a helmet.

According to an article on cyclehelmets.org, children are most likely
to benefit from helmet use becuase of their their 'lower riding
speeds, lower falling heights, and lack of riding skills generally.'

http://www.cyclehelmets.org/papers/c2023.pdf

Indeed, it is with child novice cyclists, and the high probability of
them suffering a fall, that I support cycle training providers
insisting that helmets be worn. Once children have progressed from
the playground to the road for cycle training they should be free to
make an informed choice, as they should not be on the roads if they
cannot yet ride a bike without falling.

I have just uploaded the first draft of a completely new risk
assessment for cycle training to:
http://www.johnballcycling.org.uk/ra1

As I'm fairly close to a layman when it comes to formal risk
assessments, I'd be grateful for any positive critisism - or comments
about anything I'm doing right.

"Nick Kew" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

On Thu, 12 Apr 2007 01:42:21 +0100
chris French <[email hidden]> wrote:

Experience is a very good and quick teacher ...

Quoted message said:

was going down a pathway realised she'd got a bit too fast,
slammed on the anchors a bit hard and went over the handlebars head
first

I did exactly that myself. Once. It wasn't on my first bike,
but rather the first time I rode a bike with UK brakes.

Did similar the one and only time i have ridden a bike with the brakes the
wrong way round, except i went over the bars and landed on my feet (No
somersault involved).

Niall

On Thu, 12 Apr 2007 18:49:51 +0100,

Tom Crispin said:

Clive George said:

Suggesting that children need to wear helmets is nonsensical. Exhibit a, my
mate who at age 6 or so had 'cracked his head open' many times, without
obvious side-effect. Nobody considered wearing helmets then.

It's a choice, not a need.

However, it makes good sense for a parent to ask a child to wear a
helmet when learning to ride on a hard surface, especially when your
mate who at the age of 6 or so had 'cracked his head open' many times,
may have been saved from a few visits to casualty had he been wearing
a helmet.

Clive's mate could have cracked his head open doing stuff other than
cycling. Jumping off of things, running into things, just plain falling
down.

Quoted message said:

According to an article on cyclehelmets.org, children are most likely
to benefit from helmet use becuase of their their 'lower riding
speeds, lower falling heights, and lack of riding skills generally.'

http://www.cyclehelmets.org/papers/c2023.pdf

Sure - as long as everyone knows that the benefit is fairly minor.
Bumps and cuts to the head mainly, the very rare case of concussion.

Quoted message said:

Indeed, it is with child novice cyclists, and the high probability of
them suffering a fall, that I support cycle training providers
insisting that helmets be worn. Once children have progressed from
the playground to the road for cycle training they should be free to
make an informed choice,

Now this is where the problem comes. Where do these kids get the
education in order to make that informed choice? Their parents may well
swallow the pro-helmet argument without an adequate investigation
(trusting to common-sense just like so many others), their previous
tuition had them wearing helmets, your time is probably better spent
doing practical tuition rather than spend time talking about the
pros-and-cons of helmets (and it might be problematical if little Johnny
tells his mum that his teacher said helmets can't save your life when
mum thinks they can, esp. if there is a very pro-helmet governer she can
moan at).

--
Andy Leighton => [email hidden]
"The Lord is my shepherd, but we still lost the sheep dog trials"
- Robert Rankin, _They Came And Ate Us_

On 12 Apr 2007 18:39:33 GMT, Andy Leighton <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Now this is where the problem comes. Where do these kids get the
education in order to make that informed choice? Their parents may well
swallow the pro-helmet argument without an adequate investigation
(trusting to common-sense just like so many others), their previous
tuition had them wearing helmets, your time is probably better spent
doing practical tuition rather than spend time talking about the
pros-and-cons of helmets (and it might be problematical if little Johnny
tells his mum that his teacher said helmets can't save your life when
mum thinks they can, esp. if there is a very pro-helmet governer she can
moan at).

It's just as well that I don't say that helmets can't save you life,
then.

However, I do say that helmets won't make you less likely to have an
accident.