Team TT: Time losses....

It's the same as last year. So 20 sec max for the team in second (unless real time is less loss), then 30, 40, etc. Only change to TTT rules is that, if somebody doesn't finish with the main group of their team (still fifth rider's time) because they fell within the least 1 km, they get the time of their team. This is in response to Simoni's problem in the TTT last year.

WHAT IS THIS A STUPID RULE..................to make it
less boring! Give me a %@%&$(% break! Let the mayo's and ulle's of the world paddle harder then! Unbelievble..........

musette said:

It's the same as last year. So 20 sec max for the team in second (unless real time is less loss), then 30, 40, etc. Only change to TTT rules is that, if somebody doesn't finish with the main group of their team (still fifth rider's time) because they fell within the least 1 km, they get the time of their team. This is in response to Simoni's problem in the TTT last year.

MJtje said:

WHAT IS THIS A STUPID RULE..................to make it
less boring! Give me a %@%&$(% break! Let the mayo's and ulle's of the world paddle harder then! Unbelievble..........

I bet they would change the rule if a French team dominated the TTT but only put 20 or 30 seconds on the likes of T-mobile, Discovery, or CSC.

Since relative positioning is what determines losses, one could lose a lot to the top team, but only 5 seconds to the team with the immediately faster time, and still be 10 seconds back from the latter time if the top team has done very well. This is why everybody within the top TTT teams has to ride their hardest, including DC now that it is not starting last. However, it will be starting only 5 minutes before CSC, so will have some ability to adjust to CSC's time en route.

This is where Eki would have really helped. However, Padrnos is a pretty good TTTist, and Noval's contribution will help relative to last year. LA has mentioned on more than one occasion, including to S Crow, that this is the best he has ever felt on a bike. In Stages one and 2, he felt like his feet were "floating" on the pedals.

Procycling lists Bruyneel comments that Phonak and CSC are his biggest threats; Riis lists DC and Phonak. Neither lists TM!! 😉

Yeah, it's too bad about Eki. He's been a perennial stalwart, a real asset for the TT's. And he is the true Athens TT gold medalist, in my mind. I wonder how much difference that will make in the TT.

I can see why many Europeans think Lance has it in him to win 3 more Tours after this year. He won't be around to do it, of course. But I can imagine that he might have that kind of ability. Wow, what a rider he is.

Popo will be showing more of his colors tomorrow. I'm eagerly awaiting a glimpse at what he is capable of. He wouldn't have been going full steam in the first TT because he's a support specialist this year. He won't be holding back tomorrow. My eyes are on this young rider.

I think it will be closely contested, but Chechu is better than last year, Popo is going to be strong, Paolo will kill himself to try and be strong (especially after his not doing too well in the ITT in Stage 1 may have caused DC to not have the pole position tomorrow, since his ride didn't even count), and Noval will try to stay with the group. I think DC will win by more than 20 sec over CSC and Phonak.

So if Phonek win and DC finish second by 3 seconds and CSC third at 7 seconds they will lose more time because of their postions.... wow thats interesting....

musette said:

It's the same as last year. So 20 sec max for the team in second (unless real time is less loss), then 30, 40, etc. Only change to TTT rules is that, if somebody doesn't finish with the main group of their team (still fifth rider's time) because they fell within the least 1 km, they get the time of their team. This is in response to Simoni's problem in the TTT last year.

thebluetrain said:

I bet they would change the rule if a French team dominated the TTT but only put 20 or 30 seconds on the likes of T-mobile, Discovery, or CSC.

I don't think anyone even pretends this rule is not to limit the damages a dream team like Discovery can do.

whiteboytrash said:

So if Phonek win and DC finish second by 3 seconds and CSC third at 7 seconds they will lose more time because of their postions.... wow thats interesting....

Nah you missed the "unless the real time is less" part. In your example they would only lose the actual time. the 20,30,40 etc. is the maximum raping they can recieve...if the time is less they will use actual.

[font=Verdana]I see... that’s just way to confusing.... Riis will need a Professor in mathematics in the car doing the equations on the road !

If the riders cant follow it how am I supposed to follow ! ? ![/font]

wilmar13 said:

Nah you missed the "unless the real time is less" part. In your example they would only lose the actual time. the 20,30,40 etc. is the maximum raping they can recieve...if the time is less they will use actual.

Well, LA really looks forward to the TTT and categorizes it as "fun". He always does a lot of prepartation for it. We'll see how much fun it is if it rains. Unfortunately I will miss the TTT. I will be at sea tues-fri so I am gonna miss it. It is one of my favorite parts of the TdF, but I will be back for the first mountain stage on Sun. Should be a very interesting day. I cant wait to see the attacks. Gets my blood pumping.

It rained during last year's TTT, and that didn't affect USPS winning by a comfortable margin, even though Bruyneel told people to take it easy in the end. USPS was able to very quickly make up a 40+ second deficit at an early point to Iles Balears.

USPS went deliberately cautiously in the beginning. And then they lost Noval.... You can bet each of the "new" team members for the TdF has great incentive to do well for their boss. Popo wants to prove he can inherit the team, and wants to discourage Bruyneel and LA from feeling like they should recruit a big name at the end of this season. He also wants to see what he can do, i.e., if he can fulfill Bruyneel's hopes for him in terms of helping LA. Paolo wants to further establish himself within the team, the only true path to which is not to achieve individual glory but to be a great domestique to LA on DC. He could be viewed as bearing partial responsibility (together with Ace perhaps) for DC not being the final team to start, so he better perform.

The rain stopped just after USPS started... they were the only team riding without rain....

musette said:

It rained during last year's TTT, and that didn't affect USPS winning by a comfortable margin, even though Bruyneel told people to take it easy in the end. USPS was able to very quickly make up a 40+ second deficit at an early point to Iles Balears.

They obviously could not have been the only team riding without rain, because other teams were still on the road when USPS started. I recall the roads were very wet throughout, and that there were umbrellas being held above the USPS riders at the start, just before they set off. I don't recall when the rain precisely ended.

As Warner Wolf used to say.... "Lets go to the video tape !"

musette said:

They obviously could not have been the only team riding without rain, because other teams were still on the road when USPS started. I recall the roads were very wet throughout, and that there were umbrellas being held above the USPS riders at the start, just before they set off. I don't recall when the rain precisely ended.

musette said:

LA has mentioned on more than one occasion, including to S Crow, that this is the best he has ever felt on a bike.

I'd always assumed you and S Crow are the same person.

Ah.... I found the rules......... so this means if CSC win and Phonak come second with T-Mobile third and DC fourth all spaced by 15 seconds LA would lose 40 seconds to DaveZ and Basso....... it appears the times are hard set rather than taking the actual time if smaller than the hard set time.....

• The teams' times are taken on the fifth rider to finish, and all riders finishing together with their team are credited with that time. Riders who are dropped will be given their actual time, and there is a time limit of the winning team's time +25% to avoid elimination, which could be a tough call for a rider who gets dropped early; the rest of this spiel only affects the individual GC for riders who finish with their teams.
  
• The maximum amount of time that a rider who finishes with their team can lose to the riders on the winning team is determined by the placing of their team: riders in the team that finishes second can lose no more than 20 seconds, 3rd - 30 seconds, 4th - 40 seconds and so on in ten second increments down to the 15th team, who can lose no more than 2.30, and then in five second increments down to the 21st team whose riders can lose no more than 3 minutes. If the team finishes closer to the winners than the maximum, the riders get the actual team time.
  
• The actual team times are used for the overall team classification.
  

Now, as well as giving accountants something to do in their spare time, this system gives a little scope for slightly odd outcomes for the riders with a real interest in the general classification, particularly if the winners are a team without any serious GC contenders, since the limits are on what they lose to the winning team, not to each other. If, for example, Bouygues Telecom unexpectedly power ahead, with T-Mobile finishing second a minute down and Discovery Channel a couple of seconds slower still, Jan Ullrich would gain 10 seconds on Lance Armstrong, even though the actual difference between them was far less. And if another team finished between them, it would be 20 seconds difference, and so on (the reductio ad absurdum case would be if the teams in 2nd to 21st position finished separated by fractions of a second but more than 3 minutes down on the winners, in which unlikely event riders finishing in the same second could be credited with times up to 2.40 apart). So placings may well be as important as times here for the GC riders - they need to worry not only about each other but about the other strong time trialling teams as well.

WBT : you have correctly analysed the situation : time and placings are important in the TTT.

The fact of the matter is that ASO have come up with what they think is the best strategy to acknowledge good TTT performance while not totally punishing those teams that cannot TTT (that is why the 3 minute limit has been imposed - and rightly so).

whiteboytrash said:

Does anyone know what the times losses are for each placing in the TTT ? Is it 10s, 20s, 30s etc. ?

Keep it simple:
Here is a summary of the maximum time losses a team can incur during today’s stage.
2nd place - 20"
3rd - 30"
4th - 40"
5th - 50"
6th - 1’00"
7th - 1’10"
8th - 1’20"
9th - 1’30"
10th - 1’40"
11th - 1’50"
12th - 2’00"
13th - 2’10"
14th - 2’20"
15th - 2’30"
16th - 2’35"
17th - 2’40"
18th - 2’45"
19th - 2’50"
20th - 2’55"
21st - 3’00"