Professional Cycling · Public discussion

The Benefit of Testosterone

Started by thunder · · Last activity · 31 posts · 5,974 views

Thread navigation

Jump through the discussion

Go to the original post, the replies on this page, or the latest preserved contribution.

Thread details

What we know about this thread

Original section
Professional Cycling
Published
14 January 2007
Last activity
18 January 2007
Original author
thunder
Posts
31
Discussion status
Public discussion
Total views
5,974
Views / 30 days
14

The navigation and discussion metadata provide context. Posts remain in their original chronological order.

Showing posts 1–20 of 31
Posts remain in their original chronological order.

Text size
  1. Over at Daily Peloton forums, D-Queued gives a good precis of quick research on the academic studies that do actually exist on testosterone and athletic performance.

    http://www.dailypelotonforums.com/main/index.php?showtopic=2779

    Quoted post said:

    There have been extensive discussion of the benefits, or more precisely the lack thereof, of Testosterone in numerous threads.

    Much of this discussion is related to the Landis case, as well as the various assertions by the Landis camp in the ongoing PR campaign (albeit not incorporated in his legal defense statements). There have been further assertions that finding any information was also a difficult to impossible task. Thus, it made sense to investigate further and post whatever actual research could be found on the subject.

    Note that the research accessed here was neither difficult nor time-consuming to find. It involved simple search phrases such as "Testosterone performance in athletes". Far, far less time was reauired to to find this material than was required to actually type this post out. Some of it did cost me some money, but even that was minor. Moreover, the research all predates Stage 17 of last summer's Tour.

    As noted in an earlier post, there has actually been a lot of research on Testosterone. Much or most of the research has been related to health issues -- resolving Testosterone deficiency, etc., particularly in older individuals. Not surprisingly, there has not been as much scientific research into performance enhancement for medical/ethical reasons among others. The use of Testosterone is known to be 'rampant' within the sporting world, and one must conclude that such use reflects extensive experimentation, and hence research, within sport. The research on health-related benefits has indicated benefits that would support a top cyclists interest in Testosterone as an enhancement agent.

    Beyond those cited previously, such research includes(1)

    [INDENT]Anabolic steroids are testosterone derivatives with three mechanisms of action. First, anticatabolic effects reverse the actions of glucocorticoids and help metabolize ingested proteins, converting a negative nitrogen balance into a positive one. Second, anabolic effects directly induce skeletal muscle synthesis. Third, there is a "steroid rush"--a state of euphoria and decreased fatigue that allows the athlete to train harder and longer.[/INDENT]

    All of which are completely consistent with Manzano's description of the benefit of Testosterone in his 2004 testimony about Kelme/Fuentes.

    With respect to research on Testosterone benefit in athletes specifically, there are at least three studies of note:

    A 1996 study (2) injected volunteers weekly over a period ten weeks with either 600 milligrams of testosterone enanthate or a placebo. Performance tests done at the end of this period showed the hormone had improved muscle size and strength in those doing strength training, and to a lesser extent in those who did not exercise. Strength increased in both testosterone groups, as well as in the exercise group receiving placebo, but was greater in the exercise group with testosterone than in the exercise group with placebo.(3)
    A 2001 study (4) looked at the effects of different doses, with testing conducted only at the end of the 20 week study. This study concluded that changes in leg press strength, leg power, thigh and quadriceps muscle volumes, hemoglobin, and IGF-I were positively correlated with testosterone concentrations, whereas changes in fat mass and plasma high-density lipoprotein (HDL) cholesterol were negatively correlated.

    A similar 2003 study (5) concluded that, "the effects of testosterone on muscle performance are specific; it increases maximal voluntary strength and leg power, but does not affect fatigability or specific tension. The changes in leg strength and power are dependent on testosterone dose and circulating testosterone concentrations and exhibit a log-linear relationship with serum total and free testosterone." In other words, it makes you stronger without fatiguing you.

    In 2004, a study was conducted in Australia that utilized low dosages and weekly evaluation over the six week duration. Dosages of testosterone enanthate were 3.5 milligrams per kilogram of body weight (e.g. below 350 mg dose) for six weeks and compared with a placebo group. Tests included a cycling power ouput test (increasing the relevance to this forum and cycling related benefit), and the results were striking.

    Image in The Benefit of Testosterone

    Discussion of the test and its results was provided in New Scientist(6):

    [INDENT]EVEN a low dose of testosterone can give athletes a big performance boost - and in a fraction of the time thought necessary
    …
    There was, however, a dramatic improvement in the performance of the athletes taking testosterone. The most unexpected finding was that the greatest increases in muscle size and power occurred just three weeks into the trial
    …
    Taking testosterone for short periods only, taking smaller doses, or doing both, would reduce the chances of athletes getting caught by drugs testers. "Athletes have probably already figured this out, and we are just confirming that scientifically," says Randall Urban of the University of Texas at Austin
    …
    if athletes or coaches have learned by trial and error to use low doses for short periods only, there is less chance of them being caught. Their TE ratios should also return to normal faster, further reducing the chances of detection even under the new testing regime[/INDENT]

    Hopefully this material sheds some light on the possibility of Testosterone use as a realistic short-term aid for cycling performance, even at low doses.
    Dave.
    (1) Haupt HA, Rovere GD. Anabolic steroids: a review of the literature. Am J Sports Med 1984;12:69-84.
    (2) Bhasin S, Storer TW, Berman N, Callegari C, Clevenger B, Phillips J, et al. The effects of supraphysiologic doses of testosterone on muscle size and strength in normal men. N Engl J Med 1996; 335:1-7.
    (3) http://www.mja.com.au/public/issues/jan20/...dy/kennedy.html
    (4) Bhasin S, Woodhouse L, Casaburi R, et al. Testosterone dose-response relationships in healthy young men. Am J Physiol Endocrinol Metab. 2001 Dec;281(6):E1172-81.
    (5) Storer TW, Magliano L, Woodhouse L, et al. Testosterone dose-dependently increases maximal voluntary strength and leg power, but does not affect fatigability or specific tension. J Clin Endocrinol Metab. 2003 Apr;88(4):1478-85.
    (6) Cohen, D. Cheating is easier than you think. New Scientist. August 2004, 2460: 6-7.

  2. In a couple of obscure articles I have read about insulin also being used, what good would that do ?

  3. Tim Lamkin said:

    In a couple of obscure articles I have read about insulin also being used, what good would that do ?

    Insulin is used by serious bodybuilders because it works as well as or better than steroids to build muscle. Used improperly it will kill you. It won't benefit us cyclists.

  4. Interesting read, thanks for posting.

    The ridiculous thing, however, is that in many cases cyclists aren't sure why they inject what they inject. Because only a very few of the top riders can afford serious doping consultations, the lesser riders just take what they hear the big guns are taking. Dosages, drugs, interactions -- half the peloton is probably completely blind about the benefits or detriments of the illegal and unethical witchcraft they are feeding into their blood streams.

    Lumpy, nice avatar. Haven't seen "Bill the cat" in ages!

  5. This is good information. Now the question I am dying to get answered:
    How can I naturally increase my testosterone level?

    This may seem like a dumb question to the more knowledgeable cyclists on this site but for beginners like myself who don't know the following information might be helpful.

    I got this from http://www.4-men.org/increasing-testosterone.html
    for similar information see the links on this page

    Quoted post said:

    Skip the Fad Diets
    Research suggests that eating a high protein, low carb diet can cramp your testosterone levels. High amounts of dietary protein in your blood can eventually lower the amount of testosterone produced in your testes. (there go my power bar snacks) Your protein intake should be about 16% of your daily calories. If you're the average 170 pound man eating 2,900 calories per day, you should be eating as part of that 140 grams of protein which is about the amount found in two breasts (chicken, not hers) and a 6 ounce can of tuna.

    Stick with Tough Exercises
    To beef up your testosterone levels, the bulk of your workouts should involve "compound" weight-lifting exercises that train several large muscle groups, and not just one or two smaller muscles (say like your eyelids). Example: studies show that doing squats, bench presses or back rows increase your levels more than doing curls, tricep push-downs, etc...even though the effort may seem and feel the same. That's why doing squats can help you build bigger biceps. If taking a squat would do the same thing, I'd be the next Hulk Hogan.

    Do Five Reps Per Set
    Throwing around 5 pound dumbells won't help you effect a rise in testosterone, neither will lifting 12 packs. Start off by using a heavy weight that you can only lift five times. That weight is around 85% of your one-rep maximum. A Swedish study found that this workload produced the greatest boosts in testosterone levels in men. They also found it created a hunger for Lutefisk and Volvo's.

    Do Three Sets of Each Movement
    Penn State University scientists determined that this fosters greater increases in testosterone than just one or two sets. Rest a full minute between sets (use this time to perform a thong-check), so you can regain enough strength to continue lifting at least 70% of your one-rep maximum during the second and third sets.

    Rest Harder than You Work Out
    If you overtrain - meaning you don't allow your body to recuperate adequately between your training sessions - your circulating testosterone levels can plunge by as much as 40 PERCENT as was discovered by studies performed at the University of North Carolina. The symptoms of over training aren't hard to miss: irritability, insomnia, muscle shrinkage and collecting Enya cd's. To avoid overtraining, make sure you sleep a full 8 hours at night and never stress the same muscles with weight-lifting movements two days in a row. Getting adequate rest is probably one of the best testosterone increasers underutilized by men everywhere.

  6. Tim Lamkin said:

    In a couple of obscure articles I have read about insulin also being used, what good would that do ?


    It has some anabolic effects as described but it also helps muscles to take up glucose and turn it into glycogen more quickly, which is beneficial in a stage race.

    Many teams give their riders intravenous rehydration after stages. Not only do they give fluids, but they also give high energy formulations (like intralipid and various dextrose preparations), vitamins, and insulin. The insulin is mainly useful when combined with the high energy IV preparations to accelerate glycogenesis.

    Thus it can be a PED in the appropriate context.

  7. Tim Lamkin said:

    In a couple of obscure articles I have read about insulin also being used, what good would that do ?


    Insulin is used to aid glycogen replacement. It helps transport glucose into muscle cells and stimulates the hormonse that help make glycogen. It is undetectable and dead simple to obtain so you can bet that its use is a standard recovery product.

  8. I still don't think it hits the primary issue of the Landis case. Ie, him supposedly using it following the blow up on stage 16(I think it was 16). He had negative tests prior to that stage and negative tests after his positive. I still don't see one dose of testosterone helping any athlete that quickly. I suppose a large dose taken following the blow up could help his recovery, but it would have to be minimal at best.

    I don't deny he was using by any means. It has just never made sense that he would use it once.

  9. azdroptop said:

    I still don't think it hits the primary issue of the Landis case. Ie, him supposedly using it following the blow up on stage 16(I think it was 16). He had negative tests prior to that stage and negative tests after his positive. I still don't see one dose of testosterone helping any athlete that quickly. I suppose a large dose taken following the blow up could help his recovery, but it would have to be minimal at best.


    Bogus argument. Until someone can point to test results for exogenous testosterone on the stages before and after 17, you cannot say that Landis was not using it. The only thing we know is that the ratio test did not come up positive, but that is apparently easily managed.

    First off, stupidity is not a defense. If people were found innocent because the crimes they committed did not make sense then not many people would go to prison. Landis' argument that it does not make sense for him to use testosterone just does not hold much water.

    Second, there are two theories for Landis' positive. He may have transfused blood that was taken at a time when he was in heavy training and using testosterone for recovery. He may have simply messed up his masking technique after stage 16; he could have left a test patch on too long, he may have not dropped his ratio down with epitestosterone, he may have been counting on all the water he consumed to flush away test, etc.

    I still hope to see Landis race again, but I don't think he will beat the rap. I do think that once he appeals to CAS and gets a hearing, a year will have gone by and he'll start to think that an additional year is not that long to wait. No matter what he says now, I don't think he will retire. I expect to see Hamilton do well in the races he gets into and that will give hope to Landis.

  10. Has anyone heard which ester was attached to the test in his system? Cypionate, enanthate, propionate? It's my understanding that they can tell in a blood test.

    I wonder if he'd done test suspension. It has no ester and is suposedly undectable in one day.

  11. lumpy said:

    Insulin is used by serious bodybuilders because it works as well as or better than steroids to build muscle. Used improperly it will kill you. It won't benefit us cyclists.

    Are you a docter? If not, is you opinion qualified?

  12. Lanc_arm_strong said:

    Are you a docter? If not, is you opinion qualified?

    Yeah, Lumpster. You a doctor?

    Listen up everyone. Only doctors are qualified to address these issues so if you're not a doctor you CAN NOT make posts ref. performance enhancing drugs on this or any other forum on the World Wide Web. Also, unless you are qualified to coach by a cycling federation recognized by the UCI, or, you have raced as a professional for five years at the Pro Tour level, you likewise are not allowed to make remarks on this or any other forum ref. professional cycling.

    Additionally, since all journalists are liars with hidden agendas, which we all understand to mean that they are against certain riders who we are for whomever they might be, they too are disallowed from making statements of any sort unless it's in reference to their own guilt in connection with the various media conspiracies that abound on this and other forums, of which anyone can post since everyone is an expert in this area and no accredited institution of higher learning has created a degree in this field of study.

    Now does this mean that about 98 percent of the posts on this forum will be or are no longer valid? Well of course it does. In fact, I know from personal experience that 85 percent of what I say is made up bull shizzle that I CAN post because I have a degree, a BS in journalism. So naturally I can comment on a lot of things.

    I believe in American style freedoms and I believe everyone should be allowed -- actually encouraged -- to post whatever they want so long as it's something that I want to read.

  13. helmutRoole2 said:

    BS in journalism

    There is BS journalism? I thought journalism was all Holy Writ. 😄

  14. Lanc_arm_strong said:

    Are you a docter? If not, is you opinion qualified?

    No I'm not a doctor lance, so don't listen to me.

  15. helmutRoole2 said:

    Yeah, Lumpster. You a doctor?

    Listen up everyone. Only doctors are qualified to address these issues so if you're not a doctor you CAN NOT make posts ref. performance enhancing drugs on this or any other forum on the World Wide Web. Also, unless you are qualified to coach by a cycling federation recognized by the UCI, or, you have raced as a professional for five years at the Pro Tour level, you likewise are not allowed to make remarks on this or any other forum ref. professional cycling.

    Additionally, since all journalists are liars with hidden agendas, which we all understand to mean that they are against certain riders who we are for whomever they might be, they too are disallowed from making statements of any sort unless it's in reference to their own guilt in connection with the various media conspiracies that abound on this and other forums, of which anyone can post since everyone is an expert in this area and no accredited institution of higher learning has created a degree in this field of study.

    Now does this mean that about 98 percent of the posts on this forum will be or are no longer valid? Well of course it does. In fact, I know from personal experience that 85 percent of what I say is made up bull shizzle that I CAN post because I have a degree, a BS in journalism. So naturally I can comment on a lot of things.

    I believe in American style freedoms and I believe everyone should be allowed -- actually encouraged -- to post whatever they want so long as it's something that I want to read.

    Haha! But what about a Doctor of Journalism?

    [IMG]upload.wikimedia.org200px 10504755110907657454.jpg[/IMG]

  16. tcklyde said:

    Haha! But what about a Doctor of Journalism?

    [IMG]upload.wikimedia.org200px 10504755110907657454.jpg[/IMG]

    All degrees in journalism are BS.

  17. Bro Deal said:

    Bogus argument. Until someone can point to test results for exogenous testosterone on the stages before and after 17, you cannot say that Landis was not using it. The only thing we know is that the ratio test did not come up positive, but that is apparently easily managed.

    First off, stupidity is not a defense. If people were found innocent because the crimes they committed did not make sense then not many people would go to prison. Landis' argument that it does not make sense for him to use testosterone just does not hold much water.

    Second, there are two theories for Landis' positive. He may have transfused blood that was taken at a time when he was in heavy training and using testosterone for recovery. He may have simply messed up his masking technique after stage 16; he could have left a test patch on too long, he may have not dropped his ratio down with epitestosterone, he may have been counting on all the water he consumed to flush away test, etc.

    I still hope to see Landis race again, but I don't think he will beat the rap. I do think that once he appeals to CAS and gets a hearing, a year will have gone by and he'll start to think that an additional year is not that long to wait. No matter what he says now, I don't think he will retire. I expect to see Hamilton do well in the races he gets into and that will give hope to Landis.


    I'm not trying to defend him at all. In my head it just doesn't make sense if he really only did take it one day to help him recover. If he was using it all along would he still have bonked so hard? I tend to think your second point is the most likely. He didn't mask it right.

  18. azdroptop said:

    I'm not trying to defend him at all. In my head it just doesn't make sense if he really only did take it one day to help him recover. If he was using it all along would he still have bonked so hard? I tend to think your second point is the most likely. He didn't mask it right.


    There is also the issue of the multiple other drugs he probably took (if he was being true to the Phonak jersey) that he did manage to mask successfully that were probably more relevant to his spectacular comeback. Examples being autologous blood, some sort of stimulant, pain killers for his hip etc.

  19. patch70 said:

    There is also the issue of the multiple other drugs he probably took (if he was being true to the Phonak jersey) that he did manage to mask successfully that were probably more relevant to his spectacular comeback. Examples being autologous blood, some sort of stimulant, pain killers for his hip etc.


    Very true possibility. While watching the stage it did look like an impressive ride, but after watching the replay it wasn't so much. The group pretty well let him go and Sastra came close to closing the gap at the end. The previous days falling apart certainly made it look amazing.

  20. helmutRoole2 said:

    Yeah, Lumpster. You a doctor?

    Listen up everyone. Only doctors are qualified to address these issues so if you're not a doctor you CAN NOT make posts ref. performance enhancing drugs on this or any other forum on the World Wide Web. Also, unless you are qualified to coach by a cycling federation recognized by the UCI, or, you have raced as a professional for five years at the Pro Tour level, you likewise are not allowed to make remarks on this or any other forum ref. professional cycling.

    Additionally, since all journalists are liars with hidden agendas, which we all understand to mean that they are against certain riders who we are for whomever they might be, they too are disallowed from making statements of any sort unless it's in reference to their own guilt in connection with the various media conspiracies that abound on this and other forums, of which anyone can post since everyone is an expert in this area and no accredited institution of higher learning has created a degree in this field of study.

    Now does this mean that about 98 percent of the posts on this forum will be or are no longer valid? Well of course it does. In fact, I know from personal experience that 85 percent of what I say is made up bull shizzle that I CAN post because I have a degree, a BS in journalism. So naturally I can comment on a lot of things.

    I believe in American style freedoms and I believe everyone should be allowed -- actually encouraged -- to post whatever they want so long as it's something that I want to read.


    Im wrong. Your right. Next time I'm sick I'm gonna go see my local journalist!😄

    Cheers.

    P.S: Obtaining a degree in journalism: how hard could that be? 😎

Active in the last 60 minutes

Active in this thread

0 users · 0 guests ·0 bots ·0 total

No signed-in users are active right now.

No known search crawlers active right now.