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The Fear

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UK and Europe
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16 August 2003
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29 August 2003
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dannyfrankszzz
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  1. I've been cycling now for about two years. I usually do about 50-100 miles a week. I really enjoy cycling and I would do a lot more if it wasn't for the fear element.

    I live in London and whenever/wherever I'm riding, it's always in the back of my mind that it just takes one idiot to do me a serious injury. I've had several small collisions which so far have not resulted in anything serious (fingers crossed) but I begin to go down that path of fear of "is it only a matter of time before a serious accident does happen?" I know this is negative thinking but it does cause me to be ultra cautious and defensive when I ride. Accident avoidance is far more important than being in the right but tasting tarmac.

    Normally, when I ride I try to hug the kerb as much as possible but when there is a parked car I have to veer out and while doing so I always turn my head to look at the driver - just to make it clear in their mind that I'm moving out. This seems to have a better effect and makes the driver slow down when they realise that I'm aware of them.

    I dream about the UK becoming like Holland and the Netherlands where cyclists ride with no fear.

    Anyway, sorry to be on a bit of a downer but I guess I just wanted to know how everybody else deals with it.

    Happy Riding!

  2. "dannyfrankszzz" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    I've been cycling now for about two years. I usually do about 50-100 miles a week. I really enjoy
    cycling and I would do a lot more if it wasn't for the fear element.

    I live in London and whenever/wherever I'm riding, it's always in the back of my mind that it just
    takes one idiot to do me a serious injury. I've had several small collisions which so far have not
    resulted in anything serious (fingers crossed) but I begin to go down that path of fear of "is it
    only a matter of time before a serious accident does happen?" I know this is negative thinking but
    it does cause me to be ultra cautious and defensive when I ride. Accident avoidance is far more
    important than being in the right but tasting tarmac.

    Normally, when I ride I try to hug the kerb as much as possible but when there is a parked car I
    have to veer out and while doing so I always turn my head to look at the driver - just to make it
    clear in their mind that I'm moving out. This seems to have a better effect and makes the driver
    slow down when they realise that I'm aware of them.

    I dream about the UK becoming like Holland and the Netherlands where cyclists ride with no fear.

    Anyway, sorry to be on a bit of a downer but I guess I just wanted to know how everybody else
    deals with it.

    I'm also a London cyclist, and do around 50 miles commuting every week.

    Anyways, first thing - go and buy, or borrow from your local library, John Franklin's "Cyclecraft"
    that will explain the best way to cycle the streets. This applies especially in the case of cycling
    close to the kerb - you should be at *least* a metre away from the kerb, imho.

    Personally, I find a "[censored] you, I've got just as much right to be here" attitude works very well. As
    does stopping for red lights and not cycling on the pavement. Oh, and treating pedestrians as gods
    of the road *as well as* the pavement - took me a while to realise that view to be honest.

    Thomas.

  3. Quoted message said:

    Anyways, first thing - go and buy, or borrow from your local library, John Franklin's "Cyclecraft"
    that will explain the best way to cycle the streets. This applies especially in the case of cycling
    close to the kerb - you should be at *least* a metre away from the kerb, imho.

    Extremely good advice. Always claim your space. Ride assertively and defensively. Be seen - wear
    bright, pref fluorescents for the day and reflectives at night. Use lights at night & in poor
    visibility. Be a considerate cyclist - stop at red lights, signal your intentions etc., etc.. In
    other words - take up as much space on the road as a small car. If you cycle assertively, on the
    whole drivers give you room. Plus when you come across the idiot who doesn't then *you* have got an
    escape route. If you cycle timidly in the gutter, drivers *will* intimidate you & cycle too close.

    Cheers, helen s

    ~~~~~~~~~~
    This is sent from a redundant email Mail sent to it is dumped My correct one can be gleaned from
    h*$el***$$n*$d$ot$**s**i$$m*$m$**on**$s$@*$$a**$*ol*$*.*$$c$om*$ by getting rid of the
    overdependence on money and fame
    ~~~~~~~~~~

  4. in article [email hidden], dannyfrankszzz at [email hidden] wrote
    on 16/8/2003 7:53 pm:

    Quoted message said:

    Normally, when I ride I try to hug the kerb as much as possible

    Oooh! Baaaaad move!

    Like the men say, read Cyclecraft and the Highway Code, and remember that you can ride as far out as
    you judge consistent with your safety.

    Quoted message said:

    I dream about the UK becoming like Holland and the Netherlands where cyclists ride with no fear.

    I ride with very little fear, and that mainly when some twunt decides to overtake me despite it
    being blindingly obvious that it is not safe to do so.

    Guy

  5. dannyfrankszzz said:

    I dream about the UK becoming like Holland and the Netherlands where cyclists ride with no fear.

    Well, it's funny you should say that because I was in Amsterdam the other day and that is a city I'd
    *never* wish to cycle in, they certainly do know no fear.

    Normally I'm very happy riding in traffic, in fact I relish fast, busy, city traffic but this was
    just manic. Before I arrived I was looking forward to seeing what I thought would be utopia for the
    city cyclist, what I encountered was more like a battlefield. Narrow streets with cars urgently
    pushing their way through double parked gaps with thousands of bikes buzzing about in all
    directions. Several times I thought someone was about to be killed, a few times I thought the taxi I
    was a passenger in was going to do the squishing. It was not pleasant at all.

    On the other hand, Switzerland really is a paradise on earth for us two wheelers. Polite, civilised
    drivers, excellent cycle paths that efficiently guide you to useful or beautiful places, buses and
    trains begging you to travel with your bicycle. At the train station near to where I work there is a
    dedicated ramped underground bike "car park" with oodles of space - it even has a compressed air
    line with dual head for inflating different kinds of bike tyres in case you should find yourself
    with a flat. I was tempted to puncture a tyre just so I could take advantage.

    All this and practically zero fear of having your bike stolen. The hotel where I stay is used a
    couple of times a week by local cycling clubs, they roll in during evening rides to have a leisurely
    beer and a chat before setting off again. They all leave their Campag Record equipped Colnagos leant
    up against the wall outside, out of sight, and unlocked. Ever seen that in the UK? No, me
    neither.... what a wonderful way to live your life.

    Bob
    --
    Mail address is spam trapped To reply by email remove the beverage

  6. Everyone else here is going to suggest the Cyclecraft book as a good start, so I won't repeat what
    they say. They're right though.

    dannyfrankszzz said:


    [...] the fear element.

    Might be overcome by gaining an understanding of the different causes of collision between cars and
    cyclists, and the relative likelihood of each type of accident. Helped for me, at least.
    Surprisingly perhaps, the major cause isn't being hit from behind in normal, flowing traffic. Does
    anyone have a good link for this?

    Quoted message said:

    I know this is negative thinking but it does cause me to be ultra cautious and defensive when I
    ride. Accident avoidance is far more important than being in the right but tasting tarmac.
    Normally, when I ride I try to hug the kerb as much as possible

    This isn't necessarily the right thing to do at all times - it encourages silly overtaking from
    behind, and doesn't leave enough of a safety margin for you to move into if you need to take evasive
    action. Not to mention the fact that the gutters are full of glass, road chippings, potholes,
    gratings, dead badgers and other detritus.

    That said, being hit from behind is *not* one of the most common causes of injuries to
    adult cyclists.

    Quoted message said:

    but when there is a parked car I have to veer out and while doing so I always turn my head to look
    at the driver - just to make it clear in their mind that I'm moving out.

    Darting in and out of parked cars is probably quite a bit less safe than taking a path that any
    following drivers can easily predict, but you seem to have the negotiation bit down pat. Being in
    the main traffic stream and keeping away from the parked cars' doors is most definitely the Right
    Thing to do in these circumstances, and if there's another block of parked cars within a few bike
    lengths ahead, then you probably want to stay where you are, even when passing the gap. It's just
    more predictable.

    You can get shifting a little if you feel you're holding anyone up, and if the gap is much bigger
    than 10 or so bike lengths, I'll sometimes shift into it in line with the parked cars' right-hand
    wheels (UK) in order to let a few pass.

    Quoted message said:

    This seems to have a better effect and makes the driver slow down when they realise that I'm aware
    of them.

    Probably more to do with the psychological impact of direct eye contact and your asserting yourself
    more than anthing to do with them being deeply insightful into the needs of another road user. But
    hey, it works and you should make use of it. Remember that car drivers aren't really that aware of
    what's going on in the first place, what with their restricted vision and hearing inside that
    insulated tin box of theirs. Up until the point you started negotiating your way out they probably
    thought you were a piece of broken glass in the gutter or a road sign or a dead badger or something.

    Seriously though, some drivers *aren't* watching out for anything smaller than a motor car. I find
    that a good hard stare at traffic emerging from side roads tends to a) get me noticed a tiny bit
    quicker, and b) tells me that they're more likely to have actually noticed me than not. You can't
    always rely on that though.

    And as for being polite, assertive, and clear about your intentions, nothing beats it. A smile and a
    wave if they're being helpful helps spread the good vibes further.

    Quoted message said:

    I dream about the UK becoming like Holland and the Netherlands where cyclists ride with no fear.

    There's a little article over at lesberries.co.ukheresy.html that
    mentions the comparative safety of the two countries. It's worth a read, perhaps.

    Quoted message said:

    Anyway, sorry to be on a bit of a downer but I guess I just wanted to know how everybody else
    deals with it.

    By not letting it affect me too much if someone else does something silly on the road, and by trying
    to understand what the problems and causes that affect us as cyclists. It doesn't take much nerve
    really to cycle just as assertively as necessary - if it did, I wouldn't be doing it, natural coward
    that I am - and once you start, the confidence gained starts feeding back on itself positively.

    Then again, I'm in the unusual position of having started to cycle as an adult, which may mean that
    I had fewer ingrained fears to start with. Hope this is all helpful.

    (And that Cyclecraft book that everyone else is probably mentioning iin this thread right now was
    quite handy too)

    --
    Andrew Chadwick <And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see it's path

  7. dannyfrankszzz said:

    I've been cycling now for about two years. I usually do about 50-100 miles a week. I really enjoy
    cycling and I would do a lot more if it wasn't for the fear element.

    I live in London and whenever/wherever I'm riding, it's always in the back of my mind that it just
    takes one idiot to do me a serious injury.

    Most accidents can be avoided by observant and skilfull cycling. That does leave the possibilty of
    freak incidents like being hit from behind when just cycling straight along normally - but these are
    very rare. Nearly always, trouble is caused by vehicles/people/things in front or to the side of
    you, or you making a bad move. All this you can nearly always prevent, avoid or mitigate because you
    can see what's going on and should be able to "read" what traffic is doing and is likely to do.

    Quoted message said:

    I've had several small collisions which so far have not resulted in anything serious (fingers
    crossed) but I begin to go down that path of fear of "is it only a matter of time before a
    serious accident does happen?" I know this is negative thinking but it does cause me to be ultra
    cautious and defensive when I ride.

    Defensive is good, cautious is good - up to a point but don't be too hesitant or nervous. But being
    assertive is best of all - that is when you reckon everone around has seen you or can see you, and
    can figure out what you are doing.

    Quoted message said:

    Accident avoidance is far more important than being in the right but tasting tarmac.

    Normally, when I ride I try to hug the kerb as much as possible

    That's often really bad practice - especially in London where you've got a lot of side turnings and
    a lot of pedestrians stepping off the kerb (plus all that broken glass in the gutter). Cycling
    further out gives you more of a chance in avoiding emerging vehicles/people (and the kerb) and can
    discourage or prevent vehicles behind overtaking you dangerously. In some situations, you should
    actually ride bang in the middle of the lane. This can be safe and safer.

    Quoted message said:

    but when there is a parked car I have to veer out and while doing so I always turn my head to look
    at the driver - just to make it clear in their mind that I'm moving out. This seems to have a
    better effect and makes the driver slow down when they realise that I'm aware of them.

    I agree - but do it very early so you've lots of time and room to manourvre in advance. And
    it's often safer to stay out there rather than ducking back in when there's a gap between the
    parked cars.

    Quoted message said:

    I dream about the UK becoming like Holland and the Netherlands where cyclists ride with no fear.

    I would miss riding on proper roads at decent speed.

    Quoted message said:

    Anyway, sorry to be on a bit of a downer but I guess I just wanted to know how everybody else
    deals with it.

    I deal with it by enjoying it and continually getting better at it.

    ~PB, London

  8. Quoted message said:

    dannyfrankszzz wrote:

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    I live in London and whenever/wherever I'm riding, it's always in the back of my mind that it
    just takes one idiot to do me a serious injury.

    Just to add a conclusion to my previous reply.....

    There is that fear in the back of my mind that I could be taken out, but what I fear most is myself.
    I'm afraid I will take too many risks.

    ~PB

  9. Quoted message said:

    Like the men say, read Cyclecraft and the Highway Code, and remember that you can ride as far out
    as you judge consistent with your safety.

    Hey! The woman said it too!

    Cheers, helen s ;-)

    ~~~~~~~~~~
    This is sent from a redundant email Mail sent to it is dumped My correct one can be gleaned from
    h*$el***$$n*$d$ot$**s**i$$m*$m$**on**$s$@*$$a**$*ol*$*.*$$c$om*$ by getting rid of the
    overdependence on money and fame
    ~~~~~~~~~~

  10. [email hidden] schreef ...

    Quoted message said:

    Normally I'm very happy riding in traffic, in fact I relish fast, busy, city traffic but this was
    just manic. Before I arrived I was looking forward to seeing what I thought would be utopia for
    the city cyclist, what I encountered was more like a battlefield. Narrow streets with cars
    urgently pushing their way through double parked gaps with thousands of bikes buzzing about in all
    directions. Several times I thought someone was about to be killed, a few times I thought the taxi
    I was a passenger in was going to do the squishing. It was not pleasant at all.

    Welcome to paradise ;-) Well, Dutch traffic can be a bit busy from time to time, but car drivers are
    actually used to cyclists going in every conceivable direction. In all, "only" 1.150 people are
    killed in Dutch traffic each year - and this is taking all road users into account.

    Quoted message said:

    On the other hand, Switzerland really is a paradise on earth for us two wheelers.


    < SNIP DESCRIPTION OF SWITZERLAND>

    Quoted message said:

    Ever seen that in the UK? No, me neither.... what a wonderful way to live your life.

    Then again, in Switzerland, bikes are mainly used for recreation and sports purposes. Whereas in
    Amsterdam, people actually use them as a means of transportation

    --
    Regards, Marten

  11. Quoted message said:

    Welcome to paradise ;-) Well, Dutch traffic can be a bit busy from time to time, but car drivers
    are actually used to cyclists going in every conceivable direction. In all, "only" 1.150 people
    are killed in Dutch traffic each year - and this is taking all road users into account.

    The total number killed does not take into account the population or the number of journeys etc.
    The latest European Union Road Federation statistics for the year 2000
    (erf-stage.forumone.com2360) show very similar rates number of
    road fatalities per 1000 population for the Netherlands and the United Kingdom - in fact UK is
    slightly less.

    However, deaths per Km ridden are alleged to be approximately twice as great in the UK than in
    the Netherlands - although I've not managed to find any convincing stats on the Internet that
    relate to this.

    Trevor.

  12. Quoted message said:

    Normally, when I ride I try to hug the kerb as much as possible

    There are several reasons why that is a bad move.

    If you hug the kerb you are sending out a signal to the drivers behind, as clearly as if you were
    making an official traffic signal. You are saying

    a) you want the driver behind to overtake

    b) you think there is enough room for them to overtake

    You can't blame the drivers (much) for acting on your signal, and so you shouldn't send that signal
    out unles you really mean it.

    Besides, if you are out a bit from the kerb, any emergency swerves can be away from the traffic,
    rather than towards it.

    Also, any junk on the road tends to be swept into the gutter by the cars' wheels. If you are out a
    bit you avoid that junk.

    Also, if you are out a bit, with the other traffic, you are where people are looking for traffic -
    people such as drivers coming out of a side street, or about to turn in, pedestrians about to cross
    the road, or whatever. To be seen, be where people look.

    The fear lessens with time, and lessens with knowledge. It helps to sometimes ride with experienced
    cyclists, who know what they are doing and when to be afraid, and when not to.

    Don't throw yourself in at the deep end, and in case of a really difficult bit, you can always walk
    along the pavement for a couple of hundred yards.

    Jeremy Parker

  13. Quoted message said:

    I live in London

    Do you know about the free bike maps that Transport for London put out? Get them from libraries,
    tube stations etc. or by phoning 020-7222-1234 (the tube map number). As well as official routes the
    maps also show the unofficial good quiet streets recommended by local cyclists.

    The final arbiter of what makes a good route was one Martin Whitfield, owner of Cycle City Guides.
    He apparently rode each and every route to see whether the route was good enough. Wow. There are a
    lot of streets in London His judgement seems pretty good. If an official bike route seems to be
    mysteriously left off the map, that is probably because he disapproved of it, and didn't want you to
    be lured on to it. His judgement was final, to the distress of a few of London's Cycling Officers.

    Jeremy Parker

  14. "dannyfrankszzz" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    Normally, when I ride I try to hug the kerb as much as possible but when there is a parked car I
    have to veer out and while doing so I always turn my head to look at the driver....

    Never "veer" anywhere when on the bike! If I see a parked car I will be starting to gradually
    move out 200 - 300 yards before the parked car depending on the type of road, so when I get to
    the car there will be no need to "negotiate" road space as I will already be in the correct
    position to pass.

  15. On Sun, 17 Aug 2003 14:07:23 +0000 someone who may be Jeremy Parker <[email hidden]>
    wrote this:-

    Quoted message said:

    The final arbiter of what makes a good route was one Martin Whitfield, owner of Cycle City Guides.
    He apparently rode each and every route to see whether the route was good enough.

    That is how they have produced all the other guides they have been involved in. They were probably
    ridden on one of their stable of Bromptons, some owned by the company, though Martin started getting
    into bigger wheels some years ago.

    cyclecityguides.co.ukcyclecityhome.html gives some information, click the home button to
    get their database of cycling maps. Please support their enterprise.

    Quoted message said:

    His judgement seems pretty good.

    Honed over many years. At one time he worked in the City and was one of the earliest long distance
    Brompton commuters of a decade or so ago.

    Quoted message said:

    His judgement was final, to the distress of a few of London's Cycling Officers.

    My heart does not bleed for them.

    --
    David Hansen, Edinburgh | PGP email preferred-key number F566DA0E I will always explain revoked
    keys, unless the UK government prevents me using the RIP Act 2000.

  16. "dannyfrankszzz" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    I've been cycling now for about two years. I usually do about 50-100 miles a week. I really enjoy
    cycling and I would do a lot more if it wasn't for the fear element.

    I live in London and whenever/wherever I'm riding, it's always in the back of my mind that it just
    takes one idiot to do me a serious injury. I've had several small collisions which so far have not
    resulted in anything serious (fingers crossed) but I begin to go down that path of fear of "is it
    only a matter of time before a serious accident does happen?" I know this is negative thinking but
    it does cause me to be ultra cautious and defensive when I ride. Accident avoidance is far more
    important than being in the right but tasting tarmac.

    Normally, when I ride I try to hug the kerb as much as possible but when there is a parked car I
    have to veer out and while doing so I always turn my head to look at the driver - just to make it
    clear in their mind that I'm moving out. This seems to have a better effect and makes the driver
    slow down when they realise that I'm aware of them.

    I dream about the UK becoming like Holland and the Netherlands where cyclists ride with no fear.

    Anyway, sorry to be on a bit of a downer but I guess I just wanted to know how everybody else
    deals with it.

    Happy Riding!

    As everyone else is pointing out, don't hug the kerb! Being struck from behind Hardly Hever Happens.
    Being cut up by vehicles turning left does, and they're much more likely to do it if you're not in
    the road in front of them.

    To give you some idea of how hazardous veering out is, one year the Met identified cycling off the
    pavement into traffic as the biggest single cause of cycling fatalities in London.

    Try the Inner-City Cycling Tips at greengas.u-net.comgreengas.u-net.com

    And never, ever, get caught in the gutter beside a left-turning HGV.

    Ben (not in any official capacity)

  17. Quoted message said:

    And never, ever, get caught in the gutter beside a left-turning HGV.

    Agreed - and also with busses. And some taxi drivers *sigh*

    Although, at least for the most part, at least motorcyclists appear to be on our side 🙂

    Thomas.

  18. [email hidden] schreef ...

    Quoted message said:


    Quoted message said:


    Welcome to paradise ;-) Well, Dutch traffic can be a bit busy from time to time, but car drivers
    are actually used to cyclists going in every conceivable direction. In all, "only" 1.150 people
    are killed in Dutch traffic each year - and this is taking all road users into account.

    The total number killed does not take into account the population or the number of journeys etc.
    The latest European Union Road Federation statistics for the year 2000
    (erf-stage.forumone.com2360) show very similar rates number of
    road fatalities per 1000 population for the Netherlands and the United Kingdom - in fact UK is
    slightly less.

    Thank you for this link.

    Quoted message said:

    However, deaths per Km ridden are alleged to be approximately twice as great in the UK than in the
    Netherlands - although I've not managed to find any convincing stats on the Internet that relate
    to this.

    And I wonder as to *why* this would be so. Perhaps someone can find this out?

    --
    Regards, Marten

  19. dannyfrankszzz said:

    I've been cycling now for about two years. I usually do about 50-100 miles a week. I really enjoy
    cycling and I would do a lot more if it wasn't for the fear element.

    I live in London and whenever/wherever I'm riding, it's always in the back of my mind that it just
    takes one idiot to do me a serious injury.

    You could live anywhere and it would still be a possibility. And it would be a possibility if
    you were a pedestrian or a motorist as well. RTAs that end up in A&E are not the sole province
    of cyclists.

    Quoted message said:

    I dream about the UK becoming like Holland and the Netherlands where cyclists ride with no fear.

    No fear at all suggests a dream world. People over in the NL have accidents too.

    Quoted message said:

    Anyway, sorry to be on a bit of a downer but I guess I just wanted to know how everybody else
    deals with it.

    From years of riding I know that although a fatal accident is *possible*, it isn't actually
    *likely* as long as I use my head when I'm out there. Same goes for driving, walking,
    rollerskating, rock climbing, sea kayaking, etc. etc.

    Pete.
    --
    Peter Clinch University of Dundee Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Medical Physics, Ninewells Hospital
    Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK net [email hidden]
    dundee.ac.uk~pjclinch

  20. "Peter Clinch" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    I live in London and whenever/wherever I'm riding, it's always in the back of my mind that it
    just takes one idiot to do me a serious injury.

    Quoted message said:

    You could live anywhere and it would still be a possibility.

    It's probably safer cycling in London than many other places, as there are enough cyclists on the
    roads every day that people are at least expecting to see them. I have a sneaking suspicion that
    most of the crashes are suicyclists; your average Bromptoneer or sensible urban cyclist seems to be
    in little danger provided the teaching of Guru Franklin is heeded.

    --
    Guy
    ===

    WARNING: may contain traces of irony. Contents may settle after posting.
    chapmancentral.comchapmancentral.com

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