The Logical Extreme

Nuxx Bar said:

If, from now on, every time a driver exceeded a speed limit they
received a £60 fine and 3 penalty points (i.e. the logical extreme of
the speed camera policy which many here are so fond of), what would be
the result?

Much increased safety for the cyclists (and others) on the roads.

You'll be recommending this course of action to your MP, then...

On Mon, 10 Mar 2008 13:45:18 -0700 (PDT), Nuxx Bar
<[email hidden]> said in
<[email hidden]>:

Quoted message said:

Hi trolls! (And non-trolls...I believe there are one or two....)

Loads, but you're not one of them.

Guy
--
May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after posting.
http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk

85% of helmet statistics are made up, 69% of them at CHS, Puget Sound

Nuxx Bar said:

I reckon every regular driver would end up being banned within a very
short space of time. Does anyone think otherwise?

Very unlikely. More likely the majority of motorists would quite
quickly find that their right foot can be brought under conscious
control after all.

regards, Ian SMith
--
|\ /| no .sig
|o o|
|/ \|

Nuxx Bar said:

Hi trolls! (And non-trolls...I believe there are one or two....)

If, from now on, every time a driver exceeded a speed limit they
received a £60 fine and 3 penalty points (i.e. the logical extreme of
the speed camera policy which many here are so fond of), what would be
the result?

I reckon every regular driver would end up being banned within a very
short space of time. Does anyone think otherwise? Please do say so,
otherwise I'll have to assume not.

Yup, I think otherwise. I have received a total of nine penalty points in
thirty-four years driving. I'm not proud of that, I'd be a lot prouder if
it were none. But the only thing speeding proves is that you aren't paying
enough attention, and people who aren't paying enough attention shouldn't
be on the road anyway.

As it happens I'm looking at buying a new car just now, and the new car I'm
thinking of buying - nothing very flashy - comes with a user configurable
speed limiter (you can kick down through it). This is apparently now quite
common. For cars with that sort of facility there can be absolutely no
excuse for ever speeding.

Quoted message said:

No wonder the motorist-haters want cameras everywhere eh? If I hated
motorists and wanted as many of them banned as possible, I'd certainly
see cameras as the most effective way of achieving that in the
foreseeable future. Cameras cost lives of course but you can't have
everything. Banning motorists is the top priority, and all those
bereaved families will just have to lump it.

No competent drivers will be banned. The incompetents, well, they should be
off the road anyway.

--
[email hidden] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

;; I'll have a proper rant later, when I get the time.

Nuxx Bar said:

Hi trolls! (And non-trolls...I believe there are one or two....)

If, from now on, every time a driver exceeded a speed limit they
received a £60 fine and 3 penalty points (i.e. the logical extreme of
the speed camera policy which many here are so fond of), what would be
the result?

Most drivers would learn to slow down, and there would be less accidents
because of less speeding. Also most of those accidents would be less severe.

The worst drivers, the boy racers and those who simply cannot control
their vehicles would be banned, which would also make roads a lot safer.

If it was easier to get speeders and other bad drivers off the road,
people like Kiera Coultas, then the roads would be far safer.

Quoted message said:

No wonder the motorist-haters want cameras everywhere eh? If I hated
motorists and wanted as many of them banned as possible, I'd certainly
see cameras as the most effective way of achieving that in the
foreseeable future.

This would mean that cameras are specifically an anti-motorist measure,
which must be untrue, as you have just admitted that there are no
anti-motorist measures in the UK.

Quoted message said:

Cameras cost lives of course but you can't have
everything.

Cameras saves lives, road safety statistics show this.

Quoted message said:

Banning motorists is the top priority, and all those
bereaved families will just have to lump it.

Like the family of Jordan Wickington, who was killed by a repeat
speeding motorist. If his killer had been taken off of our roads
earlier, he would be alive now.

What about the families of the hundreds or thousands of people who are
alive today because of speed cameras. Don't they count in your speed at
all costs world.

"Martin Dann" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Nuxx Bar said:

Hi trolls! (And non-trolls...I believe there are one or two....)

If, from now on, every time a driver exceeded a speed limit they
received a £60 fine and 3 penalty points (i.e. the logical extreme of
the speed camera policy which many here are so fond of), what would be
the result?

Most drivers would learn to slow down, and there would be less accidents
because of less speeding. Also most of those accidents would be less
severe.

There might not be as big a reduction in accidents as you might expect due
to risk compensation i.e. if people are forced to drive at a speed that they
feel is slower than necessary they may get too complacent and thus reduce
concentration.

Adam Lea said:

"Martin Dann" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Nuxx Bar said:

Hi trolls! (And non-trolls...I believe there are one or two....)

If, from now on, every time a driver exceeded a speed limit they
received a £60 fine and 3 penalty points (i.e. the logical extreme of
the speed camera policy which many here are so fond of), what would be
the result?

Most drivers would learn to slow down, and there would be less accidents
because of less speeding. Also most of those accidents would be less
severe.

There might not be as big a reduction in accidents as you might expect due
to risk compensation i.e. if people are forced to drive at a speed that they
feel is slower than necessary they may get too complacent and thus reduce
concentration.

If people used to driving at 80 mph, then drive at 60mph, then they will
probably concentrate less. However once driving at 60mph becomes normal,
then they will start to concentrate more again.

The road safety statistics of English, French and German
motorways/autobahns shows that higher speed limits lead to more and
worse accidents.

On Mon, 10 Mar 2008 22:37:58 +0000, Simon Brooke
<[email hidden]> said in <[email hidden]>:

Quoted message said:

I have received a total of nine penalty points in
thirty-four years driving. I'm not proud of that, I'd be a lot prouder if
it were none.

/me has none, despite being a [censored] driver.

Luck, mainly.

Guy
--
May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after posting.
http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk

85% of helmet statistics are made up, 69% of them at CHS, Puget Sound

Simon Brooke said:

Nuxx Bar said:

Hi trolls! (And non-trolls...I believe there are one or two....)

If, from now on, every time a driver exceeded a speed limit they
received a £60 fine and 3 penalty points (i.e. the logical extreme of
the speed camera policy which many here are so fond of), what would be
the result?

I reckon every regular driver would end up being banned within a very
short space of time. Does anyone think otherwise? Please do say so,
otherwise I'll have to assume not.

Yup, I think otherwise. I have received a total of nine penalty points in
thirty-four years driving. I'm not proud of that, I'd be a lot prouder if
it were none. But the only thing speeding proves is that you aren't paying
enough attention, and people who aren't paying enough attention shouldn't
be on the road anyway.

Quoted message said:

As it happens I'm looking at buying a new car just now, and the new car I'm
thinking of buying - nothing very flashy - comes with a user configurable
speed limiter (you can kick down through it). This is apparently now quite
common. For cars with that sort of facility there can be absolutely no
excuse for ever speeding.

that rather assumes a constant speed doesn't it? even in town 20/30/40
is quite probable.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

No wonder the motorist-haters want cameras everywhere eh? If I hated
motorists and wanted as many of them banned as possible, I'd certainly
see cameras as the most effective way of achieving that in the
foreseeable future. Cameras cost lives of course but you can't have
everything. Banning motorists is the top priority, and all those
bereaved families will just have to lump it.

No competent drivers will be banned. The incompetents, well, they should be
off the road anyway.

true.
--
www.rogermerriman.com

In article <[email hidden]>, Simon Brooke
[email hidden] says...

Quoted message said:

Nuxx Bar said:

Hi trolls! (And non-trolls...I believe there are one or two....)

If, from now on, every time a driver exceeded a speed limit they
received a £60 fine and 3 penalty points (i.e. the logical extreme of
the speed camera policy which many here are so fond of), what would be
the result?

I reckon every regular driver would end up being banned within a very
short space of time. Does anyone think otherwise? Please do say so,
otherwise I'll have to assume not.

Yup, I think otherwise. I have received a total of nine penalty points in
thirty-four years driving. I'm not proud of that, I'd be a lot prouder if
it were none. But the only thing speeding proves is that you aren't paying
enough attention, and people who aren't paying enough attention shouldn't
be on the road anyway.

Four points in 29 years for me, and they were about 28 years ago. Not
paying attention to speed limits is like not paying attention to solid
white lines or traffic lights, and people who repeatedly ignore them or
are otherwise incapable of observing them deserve to lose the right to
drive.

Rob Morley said:

In article <[email hidden]>, Simon Brooke
[email hidden] says...

Quoted message said:

Nuxx Bar wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Hi trolls!  (And non-trolls...I believe there are one or two....)

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

If, from now on, every time a driver exceeded a speed limit they
received a £60 fine and 3 penalty points (i.e. the logical extreme of
the speed camera policy which many here are so fond of), what would be
the result?

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I reckon every regular driver would end up being banned within a very
short space of time.  Does anyone think otherwise?  Please do say so,
otherwise I'll have to assume not.

Quoted message said:

Yup, I think otherwise. I have received a total of nine penalty points in
thirty-four years driving. I'm not proud of that, I'd be a lot prouder if
it were none. But the only thing speeding proves is that you aren't paying
enough attention, and people who aren't paying enough attention shouldn't
be on the road anyway.

Four points in 29 years for me, and they were about 28 years ago.  Not
paying attention to speed limits is like not paying attention to solid
white lines or traffic lights, and people who repeatedly ignore them or
are otherwise incapable of observing them deserve to lose the right to
drive.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Zero in 21 for me

David L

Nuxx Bar said:

I reckon every regular driver would end up being banned within a very
short space of time. Does anyone think otherwise? Please do say so,
otherwise I'll have to assume not.

No points in 28 years driving. Speed cameras on every road please.

Nuxx Bar said:

If I hated
motorists and wanted as many of them banned as possible, I'd certainly
see cameras as the most effective way of achieving that in the
foreseeable future.

If I hated motorists and wanted as many of them banned as possible,
I'd simply
outlaw the private motor car. Much quicker and effective than messing
around
with speed cameras.

David Lloyd said:

Zero in 21 for me

Zero in 38.

--
Dave...

Response to dkahn400

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Zero in 21 for me

Zero in 38.

Zero in 24. (Where *did* that time go?)

--
Mark, UK
"One of the gigs was in Kidderminster at a venue called Frank Freeman's
Dancing School. This was in the days when groups were called things like
Creedence Clearwater Revival or New Riders of the Purple Sage, and one
of the band said to me: 'Hey, that's a really groovy name.' 'Not
really,' I told him. 'It's a dancing school run by a man named Frank
Freeman'."

Nuxx Bar said:

Hi trolls! (And non-trolls...I believe there are one or two....)

If, from now on, every time a driver exceeded a speed limit they
received a £60 fine and 3 penalty points (i.e. the logical extreme of
the speed camera policy which many here are so fond of), what would be
the result?

I've no idea. Would you care to name any of those long-promised
anti-motorist measures? Or were you lying when you claimed you would
post them?

Cheers,
Luke

--
Red Rose Ramblings, the diary of an Essex boy in
exile in Lancashire <http://www.shrimper.org.uk>

On Tue, 11 Mar 2008 08:59:24 +0000, [email hidden] (Roger

Merriman) said:

Simon Brooke <[email hidden]> wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

As it happens I'm looking at buying a new car just now, and the new car I'm
thinking of buying - nothing very flashy - comes with a user configurable
speed limiter (you can kick down through it). This is apparently now quite
common. For cars with that sort of facility there can be absolutely no
excuse for ever speeding.

that rather assumes a constant speed doesn't it? even in town 20/30/40
is quite probable.

Quoted message said:

I've got one. It's all on a steering wheel stalk. 3 position rotary
switch: speed limiter, off, cruise control.

Two paddles: speed up, speed down. Short pushes have 1mph increments,
longer pushes have 5mph.

[censored] on end of stalk: activate/deactivate Speed limiter or cruise
control.

Set speed is shown on dash when 3 position switch is on either speed
limiter or cruise control.

I usually have mine set to 30mph, ready to be activated by a push on
the [censored].

Nul points, 30 years.

--

Tim

I understand very little of what's being discussed
but for some reason it's fascinating.

(Jon Thompson, urs)

In article <[email hidden]>, Roger
Merriman
[email hidden] says...

Quoted message said:

that rather assumes a constant speed doesn't it? even in town 20/30/40
is quite probable.

All it takes is a couple of buttons on the steering wheel or a stalk to
quickly set the appropriate speed as you approach/enter a different
limit. The set limit can be displayed on the speedo so you don't have
to look at anything else.

Roger Merriman said:

Simon Brooke said:

Nuxx Bar said:

Hi trolls! (And non-trolls...I believe there are one or two....)

If, from now on, every time a driver exceeded a speed limit they
received a £60 fine and 3 penalty points (i.e. the logical extreme of
the speed camera policy which many here are so fond of), what would be
the result?

I reckon every regular driver would end up being banned within a very
short space of time. Does anyone think otherwise? Please do say so,
otherwise I'll have to assume not.

Yup, I think otherwise. I have received a total of nine penalty points in
thirty-four years driving. I'm not proud of that, I'd be a lot prouder if
it were none. But the only thing speeding proves is that you aren't paying
enough attention, and people who aren't paying enough attention shouldn't
be on the road anyway.

Quoted message said:

As it happens I'm looking at buying a new car just now, and the new car I'm
thinking of buying - nothing very flashy - comes with a user configurable
speed limiter

I thought all motorcars driven on the roads had that - but that they were
called a "driver".