The Thread about Nothing....

classic1 said:

Not on the 'program', technical course, longer than a pursuit, pursuits are a steady effort vs jumping out of corners in the prologue. 4th wasn't bad, Cancellaras effort was dominant.

Thanks. Makes sense. I didn't think of the accelerations being a lot different from track.

parawolf said:

1650 watts in the initial jump 😄

Correction:

Road experts: Classo, Hitchy, Jono, Lama, thunder, Nev, parawolf, etc.

Crankyfeet said:

Correction:

Road experts: Classo, Hitchy, Jono, Lama, thunder, Nev, parawolf, etc.

I might be able to generate some occasional big numbers, but i'm hardly much of an expert...

parawolf said:

I might be able to generate some occasional big numbers, but i'm hardly much of an expert...

Fair enuff. Correction (2)

Road experts: Classo, Hitchy, Jono, Lama, thunder, Nev, etc.
And road non-experts who for brief periods can generate max power numbers like a Pro Tour sprinter : parawolf

Crankyfeet said:

Memo to : People who know a hell of a lot more than me about road and track... which is basically everyone on here... but particularly the road experts, Classo, Hitch, Jono, Lama, thunder, Nev, etc. (that "etc." hopefully gets me out of jail)

From : Cycling Layman Cranky

Why didn't Wiggins do better in that 2007 TdF Prologue in London? It was basically set up for him it seems. Is it because he doesn't handle anything technical on the road that well? Or because he's dynamite over 4km but not nearly as good over 8km? He came 4th (-23 secs) which is obviously good (beaten by Cancellara, Kloden, and Hincapie)... but he seems to be very dominant on the track.

23 seconds would be a long way back on the track.

Agree with Classo...I think as well, he's not that great a bike handler...with all the twists & turns you need to be setting yourself up for the next corner almost as soon as you come out of the previous one....get a few wrong & you'll lose mucho time on such a short circuit. Cancellara has got it all happening

Hitchy said:

Agree with Classo...I think as well, he's not that great a bike handler...with all the twists & turns you need to be setting yourself up for the next corner almost as soon as you come out of the previous one....get a few wrong & you'll lose mucho time on such a short circuit. Cancellara has got it all happening

Yeah tks. Now I recall... Stuey hit that one particular tricky corner too fast or too narrow or both and crashed into the outside barrier at the apex. And he might have had a chance of figuring well in the placings perhaps at that distance (I'm guessing a bit)?? It did have some tight sections.

See this is where inexperience comes in. I tend to get distracted by the one-dimensional raw numbers and often miss or don't appreciate the vagaries of the race and course on that particular day.

parawolf said:

1650 watts in the initial jump 😄

Phwarrrrr! I think I will hold off on having a go at C grade thank you. I'd get smashed by the sound of it. Do most of the guys racing have powermeters now? I have a $14 cateye and make my pedals go round and round as quick as I can.

parawolf said:

I might be able to generate some occasional big numbers, but i'm hardly much of an expert...

I dunno. Expert, hero to kids.... close enough.

Geoff Vadar said:

Phwarrrrr! Do most of the guys racing have powermeters now? I have a $14 cateye and make my pedals go round and round as quick as I can.

No...very few. Your set up is more common & will win as many races as the guys spending a fortune...as you say, making the pedals go round quickly (in a big gear) is the key

Hitchy is the proud owner of a Powertap 2.4 & hasn't won anything for years

Hitchy said:

Agree with Classo...I think as well, he's not that great a bike handler...with all the twists & turns you need to be setting yourself up for the next corner almost as soon as you come out of the previous one....get a few wrong & you'll lose mucho time on such a short circuit. Cancellara has got it all happening

Dunno about that. He's won short prologues, is world madison champ and has won six-day bike races. He can handle his bike ok.

Hitchy said:

...as you say, making the pedals go round quickly (in a big gear) is the key

We have to thank the greats... Lance Armstrong and Chris Carmichael... for breaking through with this unbelievable scientific discovery... and after using it for years to kill the elite pro peloton... having the generosity and selflessness to reveal and donate for free their amazing secret of CADENCE to the world of cycling... even before retiring from professional racing.

Their finding... that if you dropped to a slightly smaller gear... you could increase your cadence.... and get the best results from the... cough*EPO*transfusions*cough... <pardon>... from the cardiovascular advantage you had... then you could win the Tour seven times. It has turned cycling UPSIDE DOWN.

Newbies like myself can only thank the Lord that I was introduced to the sport after this cataclysmic quantum leap in cycling knowledge.

Crankyfeet said:

We have to thank the greats... Lance Armstrong and Chris Carmichael...

I know there's a lot of stuff about Lance A on other parts of this site
cf Helmut Roule ibid
but having Lung Brain and Testicular cancer is pretty serious [censored]
which can seriously stuff your physiology

before you throw up Cranky, I think I should let you know...
I'm with Fox Mulder,
I want to believe.

especially if you can end up on that Californ_i_a show!!!😄😄😄

Crankyfeet said:

We have to thank the greats... Lance Armstrong and Chris Carmichael... for breaking through with this unbelievable scientific discovery... and after using it for years to kill the elite pro peloton... having the generosity and selflessness to reveal and donate for free their amazing secret of CADENCE to the world of cycling... even before retiring from professional racing.

Their finding... that if you dropped to a slightly smaller gear... you could increase your cadence.... and get the best results from the... cough*EPO*transfusions*cough... <pardon>... from the cardiovascular advantage you had... then you could win the Tour seven times. It has turned cycling UPSIDE DOWN.

Newbies like myself can only thank the Lord that I was introduced to the sport after this cataclysmic quantum leap in cycling knowledge.

lol

Apparently there are physiological reasons for revving rather than grinding but someone like Ullrich was never going to rev like a smaller rider. I love how arsestrong, Carmichael and Bruyneel take credit for it though. It was probably Michele 'Dr Evil' Ferrari who sussed out the benefits.. In the olden days before 12 sprockets were invented everyone revved. Van Impe was a pedaller, Roche, Pantani, Herrera, Indurain.......

I know its not the be all end all, but from what I can gather Armstrongs VO2 max is high but not phenomenally high. Lemond, Indurain, Evans all have higher VO2. Even O'Grady, McGee, Borbridge and Brett Aitken do if you believe some of the stories coming out of the AIS.

classic1 said:

I know its not the be all end all, but from what I can gather Armstrongs VO2 max is high but not phenomenally high. Lemond, Indurain, Evans all have higher VO2. Even O'Grady, McGee, Borbridge and Brett Aitken do if you believe some of the stories coming out of the AIS.

Ferrari said in "Lance's War" that it was his high lactate threshold and his extremely low lactic acid production when at functional threshold or slightly above that was his big advantage. Of course the production or non-production of lactic acid at or above threshold can be heavily influenced by dope I imagine.

There's also the account of the Festina doctor who was questioned in the investigation following the scandal... of a new young Festina recruit going from a VO2max of about 68 to a VO2max of 96 after only four months on the Festina "programme". So EPO greatly stuffs around with the VO2max numbers.

46kgToDate said:

I know there's a lot of stuff about Lance A on other parts of this site
cf Helmut Roule ibid
but having Lung Brain and Testicular cancer is pretty serious [censored]
which can seriously stuff your physiology

before you throw up Cranky, I think I should let you know...
I'm with Fox Mulder,
I want to believe.

especially if you can end up on that Californ_i_a show!!!😄😄😄

As far as the typical Lance haters go on this forum... I'm quite mild. I don't particularly like the guy... but I don't treat him any worse than any other pro from his era when it comes to doping.... maybe a little worse for the probable corruption with the UCI and the bad example he set. There are some who seem to think he is responsible for most of the ills of cycling.

I just found the cadence thing funny even from a novice's standpoint. I mean... in today's day and age with powermeters and rollers/trainers... it wouldn't take a pro that long to test what his optimum cadence was that produced the optimum average power output over say an hour... which is about the time taken for most of the 50km ITT's he raced in the TdF. It's not rocket science... but together with a few other factors... was sold as such to fans... arguably to counter the questions being asked of how his numbers and performances could increase significantly compared to his pre-cancer days.

Geoff Vadar said:

I just wish there was more team type things happening. I miss me footy heaps because what made it so good was that I contributed to a group effort. I love handicaps where i get to work like a dog with a group of guys in a common cause.

Riding alone and for myself every week in crits and things is so [censored] its not funny. I dunno the sport just feels hollow for me sometimes. Even most of the club members are so wound up their own world and power numbers etc that it's hard to think anyone gives a flying [censored] about anyone else.

Except when someone gets run over by a car and is in the Alfred. Then we all seem to be best mates.

I put my violin down around here somewhere... [img]cyclingforums.comsmile.gifOpen ↗[/img]

Farkin sooky sooky la la.

Thats why track is good. You corruptly get organised with all your mates, work together, get some proze money, split the dough then go out and get [censored].

classic1 said:

Farkin sooky sooky la la.

Thats why track is good. You corruptly get organised with all your mates, work together, get some proze money, split the dough then go out and get [censored].

Get [censored].

Geoff Vadar said:

Get [censored].

Boo hoo, you girl. Did you get sand in your mangina riding down beach road today?

As is obvious, me and Geoff don't see eye to eye on much... but we have some things in common. Both of us took up cycling around the same time (Geoff a little earlier I think)... and both of us have a history in team competitive sports. I similarly enjoy team environments... and easily my best sporting memories have been big games, or tournaments wins, or premiership wins, that were shared with a team.

I really struggle to stay motivated on my own in a gym... and compared to the group rides I was doing before racing... a lot of my training programme is similar to being alone in the gym. Rugby and cricket training were half training... half social play. They also seem to involve the more stimulating aspects of a game. Hitting a cover drive out of the middle feels almost as good in training as it does in a real game. Apart from the thrill of a long curvy descent... there doesn't seem to be as much stimulating skill for me pedaling on a road on my own. That could be because I don't have much skill. Some nice scenery though.

The team races have easily been the most fun for me... but they're few and far between... because the guys that turn up each race aren't consistent... our standard and experience isn't that great... and I have my own struggles just hanging on if the hills get anything more than rolly. I also seemed to lose a bit of motivation when I started seeing the limits in my ability.

I'm probably meandering into Dr. Phil stuff again, but deleting your post Geoff probably means that there is some peer group pressure to not complain. Sport has got to be fun... or we lose interest pretty quick.. obviously (not telling you how to suck eggs). We are only riding for our own enjoyment... not for anyone else. Going through similar experiences to you this season... I think you could perhaps try to make slight changes to the training and races you enter (maybe giving track more of a go like classic suggested)... so it's more fun for the long term. But these feelings can be cyclical as well I suppose as we go through plateaus.

just cranky 2c

Crankyfeet said:

I'm probably meandering into Dr. Phil stuff again, but deleting your post Geoff probably means that there is some peer group pressure to not complain. Sport has got to be fun... or we lose interest pretty quick.. obviously (not telling you how to suck eggs). We are only riding for our own enjoyment... not for anyone else. Going through similar experiences to you this season... I think you could perhaps try to make slight changes to the training and races you enter (maybe giving track more of a go like classic suggested)... so it's more fun for the long term. But these feelings can be cyclical as well I suppose as we go through plateaus.

just cranky 2c

Yes, you are.

Vadar knows I love him and he loves me.. He even dresses up for me.