Theory behind unintended unclipping from Eggbeaters?

[Booker C. Bense]

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In article <opszkx5inrxtdc4g@ivarsnotebook>,
Ivar Hesselager <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>Thanks to you all for sharing experiences and opinions on eggbeaters. I
>can't make out why the experiences are so different. Maybe my way of
>pedaling or the shape of my shoe sole or just plain luck, has kept me from
>the bad experiences others have encountered. Still I think I should not
>spend the doubble amount of money on the Ti version if there is a risk
>that the spring will wear out in a couple of years. But I like the
>eggbeaters so much that I will stick to them and probably buy the SL
>version again.

_ I have not seen the spring problem either. I have one pair
that's seen two years use and there is no slop in the spring
at all. I have had problems with cleats wearing out and breaking
in half as well as some bearing problems.

_ I suspect Crank Brothers contracts all their manufacture and
they may have just had a bad run of parts.

_ Booker c.Bense



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[Booker C. Bense]

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In article <opszkx5inrxtdc4g@ivarsnotebook>,
Ivar Hesselager <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>Thanks to you all for sharing experiences and opinions on eggbeaters. I
>can't make out why the experiences are so different. Maybe my way of
>pedaling or the shape of my shoe sole or just plain luck, has kept me from
>the bad experiences others have encountered. Still I think I should not
>spend the doubble amount of money on the Ti version if there is a risk
>that the spring will wear out in a couple of years. But I like the
>eggbeaters so much that I will stick to them and probably buy the SL
>version again.

_ I have not seen the spring problem either. I have one pair
that's seen two years use and there is no slop in the spring
at all. I have had problems with cleats wearing out and breaking
in half as well as some bearing problems.

_ I suspect Crank Brothers contracts all their manufacture and
they may have just had a bad run of parts.

_ Booker c.Bense



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[Luke]

In article <[email protected]>,
amakyonin <[email protected]> wrote:

> I have destroyed a pair of the original Eggbeaters because I didn't
> service them often enough (I did them every 500 miles, sometimes less).
> Even with a rebuild kit it was never the same because the spindle was
> too scored and would eat up the new bushing. Any grit that gets into
> the interface also eats into the bushing. I have neglected the 4x4s for
> over 2000 miles at a time and they still look great inside with just
> minor wear marks on the spindle as is to be expected. Small amounts of
> dirt still get in but the metal needle bearings are obviously more wear
> resistant than a plastic bush.

The original Beaters shipped with a metal bushing. That corrosion would
seize it within the pedal's body and render it such a PITA to replace
during pedal rebuilds I suspect is the reason that Crank Bros. switched
to plastic. Doing away with the first generation's snap ring/Allen bolt
combo in favour of a nut/threaded spindle also simplified matters.


> The original design admittedly had
> problems with its seals and they look improved in the newer designs but
> the bushing is always an inferior bearing solution. I have a pair of
> second generation Eggbeater S pedals (essentially the same as the
> current SL) but don't have enough mileage on them to comment on their
> durability.

> When you spin the pedal of an eggbeater with your hand you will be
> lucky if the body makes one complete revolution because there is so
> much drag on the bushing.

I notice that quite a bit drag is attributable to the pedal's o-ring
seal. I suppose it's worth it if it keeps the bushing free of
contaminants. And, as you noted, the newer seal is of a more robust
design than earlier versions.

> Conversely, the 4x4s spin much more freely
> and you won't be able to count the revolutions. Part of this is that
> they come from the factory with a light oil for lubrication instead of
> the grease used in the Crank Brothers. I have been using a mixture of a
> light coat of grease on the spindle and heavy weight oil in the
> bearings and still get good results and low bearing drag. You really
> need to use a full load of grease to get any useful life out of the
> plastic bushings.

Yes, neglecting maintenance on the Beaters is NOT a good idea. It can
have unsettling - and, potentially catastrophic, consequences! I've
posted to this forum on this issue - search the archives - but it bears
repeating.

Twice in the several years I've used Beaters, I've suffered their
winged housing assemblies detaching from their spindles - while riding!
Vigilance is in order in ensuring that the cartridge bearing is in good
health. IF THE BEARINGS ARE NOISY OR CLICKING THEN SERVICE THEM ASAP.
DON'T PUT IT OFF FOR ANOTHER DAY.

Those familiar with the design of the Beaters will know that any
outward force exerted on the pedal (toward the spindle end) is borne by
the housing of the cartridge bearing at the end of the spindle. This is
a tiny component and not doesn't withstand lateral force well. In the
first incarnation of (ChroMo) Beaters an Allen Bolt was responsible for
securing the housing onto the spindle (and a snap ring fastened the
cartridge within the pedal housing); with my Stainless 'S' Beaters it's
a nut.

Both these fasteners retain the cartridge bearing (and the pedal
housing in which it seats) by tightening against the bearing's housing
at the inner race. With an excessively worn bearing the cartridge can -
and in my case did twice - disintegrate: the pedal housing with the
outer bearing race still seated inside, will pull through, leaving the
inner race still affixed to the spindle.

Lest you panic, this only happened twice over several years. Further,
the liberation of the Beaters' housings occurred when the pedals were
installed on my messenger bike and, consequently, were *heavily* used
and not well maintained (rebuild kits were very difficult to find when
the Beaters were initially released). In both instances this failure
applied only to the first generation ChroMo model: my remaining 'S'
beater (and a second 'S' model I retired to excessive play between the
wings) have remained intact.

Regardless of the version of the Beater, the problem is easily averted
by regularly replacing the bearings. Users of these pedals will be well
served by following that advice.

Luke

 

[Luke]

In article <[email protected]>,
amakyonin <[email protected]> wrote:

> I have destroyed a pair of the original Eggbeaters because I didn't
> service them often enough (I did them every 500 miles, sometimes less).
> Even with a rebuild kit it was never the same because the spindle was
> too scored and would eat up the new bushing. Any grit that gets into
> the interface also eats into the bushing. I have neglected the 4x4s for
> over 2000 miles at a time and they still look great inside with just
> minor wear marks on the spindle as is to be expected. Small amounts of
> dirt still get in but the metal needle bearings are obviously more wear
> resistant than a plastic bush.

The original Beaters shipped with a metal bushing. That corrosion would
seize it within the pedal's body and render it such a PITA to replace
during pedal rebuilds I suspect is the reason that Crank Bros. switched
to plastic. Doing away with the first generation's snap ring/Allen bolt
combo in favour of a nut/threaded spindle also simplified matters.


> The original design admittedly had
> problems with its seals and they look improved in the newer designs but
> the bushing is always an inferior bearing solution. I have a pair of
> second generation Eggbeater S pedals (essentially the same as the
> current SL) but don't have enough mileage on them to comment on their
> durability.

> When you spin the pedal of an eggbeater with your hand you will be
> lucky if the body makes one complete revolution because there is so
> much drag on the bushing.

I notice that quite a bit drag is attributable to the pedal's o-ring
seal. I suppose it's worth it if it keeps the bushing free of
contaminants. And, as you noted, the newer seal is of a more robust
design than earlier versions.

> Conversely, the 4x4s spin much more freely
> and you won't be able to count the revolutions. Part of this is that
> they come from the factory with a light oil for lubrication instead of
> the grease used in the Crank Brothers. I have been using a mixture of a
> light coat of grease on the spindle and heavy weight oil in the
> bearings and still get good results and low bearing drag. You really
> need to use a full load of grease to get any useful life out of the
> plastic bushings.

Yes, neglecting maintenance on the Beaters is NOT a good idea. It can
have unsettling - and, potentially catastrophic, consequences! I've
posted to this forum on this issue - search the archives - but it bears
repeating.

Twice in the several years I've used Beaters, I've suffered their
winged housing assemblies detaching from their spindles - while riding!
Vigilance is in order in ensuring that the cartridge bearing is in good
health. IF THE BEARINGS ARE NOISY OR CLICKING THEN SERVICE THEM ASAP.
DON'T PUT IT OFF FOR ANOTHER DAY.

Those familiar with the design of the Beaters will know that any
outward force exerted on the pedal (toward the spindle end) is borne by
the housing of the cartridge bearing at the end of the spindle. This is
a tiny component and not doesn't withstand lateral force well. In the
first incarnation of (ChroMo) Beaters an Allen Bolt was responsible for
securing the housing onto the spindle (and a snap ring fastened the
cartridge within the pedal housing); with my Stainless 'S' Beaters it's
a nut.

Both these fasteners retain the cartridge bearing (and the pedal
housing in which it seats) by tightening against the bearing's housing
at the inner race. With an excessively worn bearing the cartridge can -
and in my case did twice - disintegrate: the pedal housing with the
outer bearing race still seated inside, will pull through, leaving the
inner race still affixed to the spindle.

Lest you panic, this only happened twice over several years. Further,
the liberation of the Beaters' housings occurred when the pedals were
installed on my messenger bike and, consequently, were *heavily* used
and not well maintained (rebuild kits were very difficult to find when
the Beaters were initially released). In both instances this failure
applied only to the first generation ChroMo model: my remaining 'S'
beater (and a second 'S' model I retired to excessive play between the
wings) have remained intact.

Regardless of the version of the Beater, the problem is easily averted
by regularly replacing the bearings. Users of these pedals will be well
served by following that advice.

Luke

 

[Michael Press]

In article <021120050229027537%[email protected]>,
Luke <[email protected]> wrote:

> In article <[email protected]>,
> amakyonin <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > I have destroyed a pair of the original Eggbeaters because I didn't
> > service them often enough (I did them every 500 miles, sometimes less).
> > Even with a rebuild kit it was never the same because the spindle was
> > too scored and would eat up the new bushing. Any grit that gets into
> > the interface also eats into the bushing. I have neglected the 4x4s for
> > over 2000 miles at a time and they still look great inside with just
> > minor wear marks on the spindle as is to be expected. Small amounts of
> > dirt still get in but the metal needle bearings are obviously more wear
> > resistant than a plastic bush.
>
> The original Beaters shipped with a metal bushing. That corrosion would
> seize it within the pedal's body and render it such a PITA to replace
> during pedal rebuilds I suspect is the reason that Crank Bros. switched
> to plastic. Doing away with the first generation's snap ring/Allen bolt
> combo in favour of a nut/threaded spindle also simplified matters.
>
>
> > The original design admittedly had
> > problems with its seals and they look improved in the newer designs but
> > the bushing is always an inferior bearing solution. I have a pair of
> > second generation Eggbeater S pedals (essentially the same as the
> > current SL) but don't have enough mileage on them to comment on their
> > durability.
>
> > When you spin the pedal of an eggbeater with your hand you will be
> > lucky if the body makes one complete revolution because there is so
> > much drag on the bushing.
>
> I notice that quite a bit drag is attributable to the pedal's o-ring
> seal. I suppose it's worth it if it keeps the bushing free of
> contaminants. And, as you noted, the newer seal is of a more robust
> design than earlier versions.
>
> > Conversely, the 4x4s spin much more freely
> > and you won't be able to count the revolutions. Part of this is that
> > they come from the factory with a light oil for lubrication instead of
> > the grease used in the Crank Brothers. I have been using a mixture of a
> > light coat of grease on the spindle and heavy weight oil in the
> > bearings and still get good results and low bearing drag. You really
> > need to use a full load of grease to get any useful life out of the
> > plastic bushings.
>
> Yes, neglecting maintenance on the Beaters is NOT a good idea. It can
> have unsettling - and, potentially catastrophic, consequences! I've
> posted to this forum on this issue - search the archives - but it bears
> repeating.
>
> Twice in the several years I've used Beaters, I've suffered their
> winged housing assemblies detaching from their spindles - while riding!
> Vigilance is in order in ensuring that the cartridge bearing is in good
> health. IF THE BEARINGS ARE NOISY OR CLICKING THEN SERVICE THEM ASAP.
> DON'T PUT IT OFF FOR ANOTHER DAY.
>
> Those familiar with the design of the Beaters will know that any
> outward force exerted on the pedal (toward the spindle end) is borne by
> the housing of the cartridge bearing at the end of the spindle. This is
> a tiny component and not doesn't withstand lateral force well. In the
> first incarnation of (ChroMo) Beaters an Allen Bolt was responsible for
> securing the housing onto the spindle (and a snap ring fastened the
> cartridge within the pedal housing); with my Stainless 'S' Beaters it's
> a nut.
>
> Both these fasteners retain the cartridge bearing (and the pedal
> housing in which it seats) by tightening against the bearing's housing
> at the inner race. With an excessively worn bearing the cartridge can -
> and in my case did twice - disintegrate: the pedal housing with the
> outer bearing race still seated inside, will pull through, leaving the
> inner race still affixed to the spindle.
>
> Lest you panic, this only happened twice over several years. Further,
> the liberation of the Beaters' housings occurred when the pedals were
> installed on my messenger bike and, consequently, were *heavily* used
> and not well maintained (rebuild kits were very difficult to find when
> the Beaters were initially released). In both instances this failure
> applied only to the first generation ChroMo model: my remaining 'S'
> beater (and a second 'S' model I retired to excessive play between the
> wings) have remained intact.
>
> Regardless of the version of the Beater, the problem is easily averted
> by regularly replacing the bearings. Users of these pedals will be well
> served by following that advice.

The more folks write about these pedals the more
astonished I am. Critical maintenance schedule for
_pedals_?

--
Michael Press
The rest of the world.

 

[amakyonin]

This is a problem with all minimalist low-stack pedals. There just
isn't enough room left inside for a super robust bearing design.