time trial

Arthur Clune said:

Simon Brooke said:

Watch the five-day weather forecast. If time trial night looks fine, don't
train hard that week. If it looks foul, train hard. You're bound to do
your best times in warm, calm weather.

You'll be lucky to get better that way though. If you want to improve
over time, more structure is better. You can't plan a 3 week on/one week
off type cycle based on the weather.

Especially given that the 5 day forecast is about as reliable as,
errrrr, errrrr... Okay, I'm struggling to think of anything as
unreliable as a 5 day forecast in the UK! ;-/

Still, one of the beauties of the internet is you can just surf around
different weather sites until you find something that suits. So if you
really don't want to do something, surf around for bad weather for an
excuse, and similarly if you really /do/ want to do it, find a good
prediction!

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email hidden] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

Well, I'm down to do the club 10 tomorrow. The timekeeper has been
issued with a properly certified and calibrated calendar.

At the moment the weather doesn't look too bad. I have not been on the
road bike for two weeks due to illness, so will have a nice ride out
beforehand. Then half an hour of suffering[1]. And then home.

...d

[1] It's easy for the fast guys - they don't have to suffer for as
long.

"Simon Brooke" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

in message <[email hidden]>, Arthur Clune
([email hidden]'😉 wrote:

That will really [censored] you off if it's pouring with rain and lashing with
wind on the week of your 'target' event, and all balmy and sunny and calm
the week before!

The points for these mid-weeks are calculated based on finishing position
(not time). The fastest rider gets 20 points, 2nd 19 and so on. Sometimes
there aren't 20 riders and even less on crappy nights, so I reckon the only
way I can move up the standings is by turning up on really foul nights when
the fast guys aren't wanting to get their steeds wets.
....and they laughed at my mudguards!

Jim J

in message <[email hidden]>, David

Martin (') said:

Well, I'm down to do the club 10 tomorrow. The timekeeper has been
issued with a properly certified and calibrated calendar.

At the moment the weather doesn't look too bad. I have not been on the
road bike for two weeks due to illness, so will have a nice ride out
beforehand. Then half an hour of suffering[1]. And then home.

I, too, have a ten tomorrow. So we can suffer together - if on opposite
sides of Scotland!

--
[email hidden] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

;; Human history becomes more and more a race between
;; education and catastrophe.
H.G. Wells, "The Outline of History"

"Peter Clinch" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Okay, I'm struggling to think of anything as unreliable as a 5 day
forecast in the UK! ;-/

Service in the UK.

"Simon Brooke" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

in message <[email hidden]>, David

Martin (') said:

Well, I'm down to do the club 10 tomorrow. The timekeeper has been
issued with a properly certified and calibrated calendar.

At the moment the weather doesn't look too bad. I have not been on the
road bike for two weeks due to illness, so will have a nice ride out
beforehand. Then half an hour of suffering[1]. And then home.

I, too, have a ten tomorrow. So we can suffer together - if on opposite
sides of Scotland!

Make that three of us, only I will be doing 14.5 miles, first time, on a
bike not really designed for this sort of thing.

The plan is not to go too hard at the beginning and try to maintain a
constant power output.

Simon Brooke said:

in message <[email hidden]>, David

Martin (') said:

Well, I'm down to do the club 10 tomorrow. The timekeeper has been
issued with a properly certified and calibrated calendar.

Quoted message said:

At the moment the weather doesn't look too bad. I have not been on the
road bike for two weeks due to illness, so will have a nice ride out
beforehand. Then half an hour of suffering[1]. And then home.

I, too, have a ten tomorrow. So we can suffer together - if on opposite
sides of Scotland!

We are broadly of the same time band.. I'll be glad to break evens.
Second off.
Most definitely not the second to finish (having looked at the list of
riders behind me).

Many of our young riders are up for their first ten. Should be a good
evening if the weather stays good. And I have negotiated a lift out
there though I'll have to ride home afterwards.

...d

Adam Lea said:

The plan is not to go too hard at the beginning and try to maintain a
constant power output.

That is the optimal strategy for a flat TT. Can be easier said than
done of course!

Arthur

--
Arthur Clune PGP/GPG Key: http://www.clune.org/pubkey.txt
The struggle of people against power is the struggle
of memory against forgetting - Milan Kundera

Arthur Clune said:

Adam Lea said:

The plan is not to go too hard at the beginning and try to maintain a
constant power output.

That is the optimal strategy for a flat TT. Can be easier said than
done of course!

Spesh if you get one of those againsterlies blowing. :-( Work a little
too hard into the wind only to find it is still against you after the
turn.

I used to try to stay within my aerobic limit until the last mile or
two when I would wind it up to finish.
--
Phil Cook looking north over the park to the "Westminster Gasworks"

Well I tried the resting idea
"Jim" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

The points for these mid-weeks are calculated based on finishing position
(not time). The fastest rider gets 20 points, 2nd 19 and so on. Sometimes
there aren't 20 riders and even less on crappy nights, so I reckon the
only way I can move up the standings is by turning up on really foul
nights when the fast guys aren't wanting to get their steeds wets.
...and they laughed at my mudguards!

Jim J

Follow-up
I tried the resting idea, 'did an easy 30 miles at the weekend, nothing on
Monday, or Tuesday or Today.
Last week I cycled a bit every day and did 45mins on my awful exercise
"bike" the day before the TT, the result was that my legs were a bit sore
right from the off.
Tonight though, on my 5th TT also a 10, they were ok at least for a few
miles. The course goes north first then returns by the same route. A brisk
southerly and a downhill meant that 35mph was quite easy initially until the
road flattened and reality kicked in. I was pleased I wasn't passed on the
way out but in the last 2 miles 6,4,and 5 passed me in quick succession (one
of whom I know is 12 years my elder), I was riding no.2. I misjudged the
uphill finish (again) thinking the guy taking photos was the timekeeper I
did my best attempt at a sprint finish only to find that I still had a
couple of hundred yards to go. So against the wishes of my body I tried to
keep this pace up to the line and even thought I might catch my minuteman at
one point (although that may have been the result of my oxygen deficit
affecting my judgement). I know you're supposed to warm-down at the end but
I had to get off the bike ASAP and stood and gasped for breath for what
seemed like ages.
My time, a modest 29:10, 21 secs better than last week and my best so far,
the fastest on the night was a Dundee Thistle rider with 21:32 (I think).
BTW I'm riding a 1980/90s road bike (bought off eBay for £100) with clip-on
aerobars (£15 second hand) so no space age kit for me.
The good news is that with only 16 riders tonight I reckon it'll get 7
points in the league table, the bad news is that now I have done my "target"
event I have to train hard through the next two.
Cheers and thanks
Jim J

Jim said:

Well I tried the resting idea"Jim" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

The points for these mid-weeks are calculated based on finishing position
(not time). The fastest rider gets 20 points, 2nd 19 and so on. Sometimes
there aren't 20 riders and even less on crappy nights, so I reckon the
only way I can move up the standings is by turning up on really foul
nights when the fast guys aren't wanting to get their steeds wets.
...and they laughed at my mudguards!

Quoted message said:

Jim J

Follow-up
I tried the resting idea, 'did an easy 30 miles at the weekend, nothing on
Monday, or Tuesday or Today.
Last week I cycled a bit every day and did 45mins on my awful exercise
"bike" the day before the TT, the result was that my legs were a bit sore
right from the off.
Tonight though, on my 5th TT also a 10, they were ok at least for a few
miles. The course goes north first then returns by the same route. A brisk
southerly and a downhill meant that 35mph was quite easy initially until the
road flattened and reality kicked in. I was pleased I wasn't passed on the
way out but in the last 2 miles 6,4,and 5 passed me in quick succession (one
of whom I know is 12 years my elder), I was riding no.2. I misjudged the
uphill finish (again) thinking the guy taking photos was the timekeeper I
did my best attempt at a sprint finish only to find that I still had a
couple of hundred yards to go. So against the wishes of my body I tried to
keep this pace up to the line and even thought I might catch my minutemanat
one point (although that may have been the result of my oxygen deficit
affecting my judgement). I know you're supposed to warm-down at the end but
I had to get off the bike ASAP and stood and gasped for breath for what
seemed like ages.
My time, a modest 29:10, 21 secs better than last week and my best so far,
the fastest on the night was a Dundee Thistle rider with 21:32 (I think).
BTW I'm riding a 1980/90s road bike (bought off eBay for £100) with clip-on
aerobars (£15 second hand) so no space age kit for me.
The good news is that with only 16 riders tonight I reckon it'll get 7
points in the league table, the bad news is that now I have done my "target"
event I have to train hard through the next two.
Cheers and thanks
Jim J

Freuchie course? Sounds like the modified one that goes out to
Melville Lodges roundabout and back. The Thistle rider would have been
Brian Sproul (about 5'5", aero helmet, black carbon TT bike). You are
about the same speed as me. I ride a 1980's/90's steel bike, no
aerobars, and the same wheels I rode my first 10 on in 1990.

...d (Another Thistle rider)

Jim said:

My time, a modest 29:10, 21 secs better than last week and my best so far,

Result!

Quoted message said:

The good news is that with only 16 riders tonight I reckon it'll get 7
points in the league table, the bad news is that now I have done my "target"
event I have to train hard through the next two.

🙂

Try doing one session a week like this:

Warm up (10-15 mins)
5 mins hard but not bonkers
Rest for 5.

Now the hard work:

Do a 5 min effort a little faster than your '10' pace. Don't start too
fast. First minute should feel like a solid effort, last minute should
feel very hard indeed.

Rest for 5 minutes.

Repeat 4 times (total of 5 efforts).

Warm down on the way home.

If you event is on the Tuesday (so that will be your second hard
training ride of the week), try doing this on the Saturday or
the Thursday (Saturday might be better as you will be fresher)
and try and get in one longer ride (2 hours) during the rest of
the week, keeping things moving along but not going full on
(I know that sounds vague, but I hope you see what I mean).

I'd suggest not doing more than two hard sessions a week for
now. Remember it's the rest that makes you faster.

A couple of weeks of that and you should see some good improvements
for your next target event.

Arthur

--
Arthur Clune PGP/GPG Key: http://www.clune.org/pubkey.txt
The struggle of people against power is the struggle
of memory against forgetting - Milan Kundera

(Arthur Clune) said:

I'd suggest not doing more than two hard sessions a week for
now. Remember it's the rest that makes you faster.

*naive*
I've tried rest. Lots of it. Seems to make me slower. Should I be
doing some other training as well? */naive*

The intervals thing really does work. I'd aim for a week before the
race, go out and do as Arthur suggested. An alternative approach is to
not do long intervals but to do short ones.

Basically ride at a comfortable but fastish pace (ie club run rather
than chain gang). Pick a point about 200-250m away. Sprint eyeballs
out as hard as you can for that distance. Don't stop riding but ease
back down. As soon as your pulse rate drops below threshold (ie to
that of a fast cruising pace) then repeat. Do this a few times till
you can no longer do it (typically 4 or 5 sprints). Then cruise for
5-10 mins. Repeat. If you are still alive, cruise, repeat.

Warm down and head home. Over the next few days keep the legs turning
over but don't do anything hard. A medium to long steady ride about
3-4 days before hand. then gentle before the race.

This time I did it differently. I was ill two weeks before the race
and had only just recovered in time, but too late to do any serious
training. Not recommended.

...d

David Martin said:

The intervals thing really does work. I'd aim for a week before the
race, go out and do as Arthur suggested. An alternative approach is to
not do long intervals but to do short ones.

What you suggest is a good workout, but is targeting anerobic systems.
For quick wins TT'ing, 5 x 5 is the way to go.

For longer term gains mixing in both the sort of short interval you
describe and 2 x 20 minute intervals has worked for me.

--
Arthur Clune PGP/GPG Key: http://www.clune.org/pubkey.txt
The struggle of people against power is the struggle
of memory against forgetting - Milan Kundera

(Arthur Clune) said:

David Martin said:

The intervals thing really does work. I'd aim for a week before the
race, go out and do as Arthur suggested. An alternative approach is to
not do long intervals but to do short ones.

What you suggest is a good workout, but is targeting anerobic systems.
For quick wins TT'ing, 5 x 5 is the way to go.

For longer term gains mixing in both the sort of short interval you
describe and 2 x 20 minute intervals has worked for me.

--
Arthur Clune PGP/GPG Key:http://www.clune.org/pubkey.txt
The struggle of people against power is the struggle
of memory against forgetting - Milan Kundera

I'm not sure I could do a 5 min interval faster than my pace on
tuesday. I was pretty much redlining it all the way - amazed I didn't
blow up sooner than 9 miles.

Anyhow, I have been let into the secret location of the club APR, so
if I fancy some torture on tuesday and can remember the course (tends
to be impromptu, compunded now by loads of road works)

...d

"David Martin" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Jim said:

Quoted message said:

My time, a modest 29:10, 21 secs better than last week and my best so
far,
the fastest on the night was a Dundee Thistle rider with 21:32 (I think).
BTW I'm riding a 1980/90s road bike (bought off eBay for £100) with
clip-on
aerobars (£15 second hand) so no space age kit for me.
Jim J

Freuchie course? Sounds like the modified one that goes out to
Melville Lodges roundabout and back. The Thistle rider would have been
Brian Sproul (about 5'5", aero helmet, black carbon TT bike). You are
about the same speed as me. I ride a 1980's/90's steel bike, no
aerobars, and the same wheels I rode my first 10 on in 1990.

..d (Another Thistle rider)

Yes it was Freuchie and Brian Sproul was the fastest on the night.
Is this him http://saddlesoar.j2fm.net/lochleven/pages/LochLeven_77.htm
My bike is also still on the original wheels, cables, brake blocks and late
80s flourescent paint job.
Next Wednesday is a "hilly time trial", I don't know the course so I don't
know if I'll try it, being of slight build I might have less of a
disadvantage than usual. The next normal TT in the series is 4th July at
Cleish.
Cheers
Jim J

Thanks for this, I will certainly give it a bash, or at least try and work
in some of these intervals into my riding, if I can do it on my 1 hour
commute home that would be ideal. However like David M, I think that 5
minutes at max would probably do me in after one or two intervals.

Cheers
Jim J

"Arthur Clune" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

SNIP
A couple of weeks of that and you should see some good improvements
for your next target event.

Arthur

--

Quoted message said:

Yes it was Freuchie and Brian Sproul was the fastest on the night.
Is this himhttp://saddlesoar.j2fm.net/lochleven/pages/LochLeven_77.htm

Yes, as is http://www.aaaphoto.co.uk/viewimage.php?src=3/images/8

He does now have a new bike - black one.

Quoted message said:

My bike is also still on the original wheels, cables, brake blocks and late
80s flourescent paint job.

Calbes, brakes and most parts on mine have been replaced over the
years, but the frame and wheels are still original. It has also had a
respray.

Quoted message said:

Next Wednesday is a "hilly time trial", I don't know the course so I don't
know if I'll try it, being of slight build I might have less of a
disadvantage than usual. The next normal TT in the series is 4th July at
Cleish.

I'm missing most of those as I am on holiday.
...d

David Martin said:

I'm not sure I could do a 5 min interval faster than my pace on
tuesday. I was pretty much redlining it all the way - amazed I didn't
blow up sooner than 9 miles.

Your redline clearly isn't where you think it is. If you can
hold a given pace for 30 mins, you can do more than it for
5. It'll just hurt (a lot) more.

--
Arthur Clune PGP/GPG Key: http://www.clune.org/pubkey.txt
The struggle of people against power is the struggle
of memory against forgetting - Milan Kundera

"David Martin" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Yes, as is http://www.aaaphoto.co.uk/viewimage.php?src=3/images/8

I had a look at your photo gallery and realised that while you were taking
piccies at Melville Lodges (30 May) I was a bit further along the course
marshalling at Trafalgar.

Cheers
Jim J