Too Many Leaders

[J Jones]

Much is being said about Lance's competition not being as prepared as they
should be - which, I tend to agree with. But, to me it seems like the other
team's leadership models are severely flawed when compared to Discovery.
Team leadership profiles are:

Discovery: Lance, Lance, Lance
T-Mobile: Jan, Kloden, Vino
Phonak: Floyd, Botero

Why wouldn't these top-contending teams model themselves EXACTLY like team
Discovery - 1 and only 1 leader, with everyone else there to serve the
leader? This whole business of "Jan's our leader, unless he sucks, then
Vino or Kloden can take over" seems disorganized (at the least), but would
also prevent the team from developing the unity and appropriate training
regiments to win. Am I missing something here? Seems like a no-brainer to
me - the Discovery model clearly works.
Jeff

 

[Jonathan v.d. Sluis]

"J Jones" <[email protected]> schreef in bericht
news:[email protected]...
> Much is being said about Lance's competition not being as prepared as they
> should be - which, I tend to agree with. But, to me it seems like the
other
> team's leadership models are severely flawed when compared to Discovery.

I've noticed some other factors in which the disco boys have a definite
advantage:

- None of the other teams prepare for the tour. Only Lance really trains
professionally.

- The other teams don't explore the stages before the tour.

- Other teams are too caught up their old traditions. For example, they
refuse to explore technical innovations for their equipment. Only Lance
rides good gear. He has a carbon frame, and everybody knows that a carbon
frame gives you the fastest bike.

- Ullrich eats too many donuts in the winter.

- Ullrich doesn't live for his sport. He doesn't try hard enough to win and
wastes his talent.

- The Europros rely on drugs, Lance relies on training to get better.

- The mentality of Old Europe prevents people there from winning.

- The Disco Boys are all good friends, I mean buddies. There's Chechu, and
Eki, and Mad Max, they are all class acts unlike those doped Europros. Other
teams meet eachother for the first time at the first day of the tour.

 

[curt]

I tend to agree. This has been the case for years. If Jan had a team that
rode for him he may have a better chance, but as it is now, the tour is over
unless something happens to Lance like a crash. I think Jan was in
condition to have a chance this year, but those that have had crashes, know,
it takes quite a bit out of a person. I like the way Jan handled it, not
taking anything away from Lance. Very cool..


"J Jones" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Much is being said about Lance's competition not being as prepared as they
> should be - which, I tend to agree with. But, to me it seems like the
other
> team's leadership models are severely flawed when compared to Discovery.
> Team leadership profiles are:
>
> Discovery: Lance, Lance, Lance
> T-Mobile: Jan, Kloden, Vino
> Phonak: Floyd, Botero
>
> Why wouldn't these top-contending teams model themselves EXACTLY like team
> Discovery - 1 and only 1 leader, with everyone else there to serve the
> leader? This whole business of "Jan's our leader, unless he sucks, then
> Vino or Kloden can take over" seems disorganized (at the least), but would
> also prevent the team from developing the unity and appropriate training
> regiments to win. Am I missing something here? Seems like a no-brainer
to
> me - the Discovery model clearly works.
> Jeff
>
>

 

[Tim Smith]

"J Jones" <[email protected]> wrote:

>Why wouldn't these top-contending teams model themselves EXACTLY like team
>Discovery - 1 and only 1 leader, with everyone else there to serve the
>leader? This whole business of "Jan's our leader, unless he sucks, then
>Vino or Kloden can take over" seems disorganized (at the least), but would
>also prevent the team from developing the unity and appropriate training
>regiments to win. Am I missing something here? Seems like a no-brainer to
>me - the Discovery model clearly works.

There are some interesting insights into this in Daniel Coyle's recent
book "Lance Armstrong's War". I put off getting the book (not yet
another book excessively praising or slanging Lance, I thought), but
actually it's a pretty good read. Seems reasonably accurate, for all I
know (no insider, me).

Basically, his point is that Discovery/USPS is a unique phenomenon in
bike racing, driven by Lance and Bruyneel, and what Coyle with
tongue-in-cheek calls the "Belgian mafia". The other teams just don't
have the leaders with the right psychological makeup to perform like
this.

Be interesting to see what happens to the Discovery team in 2006.

 

[trg]

"J Jones" <[email protected]> a écrit dans le message de news:
[email protected]...
| Much is being said about Lance's competition not being as prepared as they
| should be - which, I tend to agree with. But, to me it seems like the
other
| team's leadership models are severely flawed when compared to Discovery.
| Team leadership profiles are:
|
| Discovery: Lance, Lance, Lance
| T-Mobile: Jan, Kloden, Vino
| Phonak: Floyd, Botero
|
| Why wouldn't these top-contending teams model themselves EXACTLY like team
| Discovery - 1 and only 1 leader, with everyone else there to serve the
| leader? This whole business of "Jan's our leader, unless he sucks, then
| Vino or Kloden can take over" seems disorganized (at the least), but would
| also prevent the team from developing the unity and appropriate training
| regiments to win. Am I missing something here? Seems like a no-brainer
to
| me - the Discovery model clearly works.
| Jeff

It's a question of putting all your eggs in one basket. You've got to be
very sure that it will work. USP/DSC has already occupied the terrain. Other
teams don't have the confidence that they will win against Lance and USP,
even if they devote themselves 100% to it.

 

[[email protected]]

On Wed, 6 Jul 2005 07:39:17 -0400, "J Jones" <[email protected]> wrote:

>Much is being said about Lance's competition not being as prepared as they
>should be - which, I tend to agree with. But, to me it seems like the other
>team's leadership models are severely flawed when compared to Discovery.
>Team leadership profiles are:
>
>Discovery: Lance, Lance, Lance
>T-Mobile: Jan, Kloden, Vino
>Phonak: Floyd, Botero
>
>Why wouldn't these top-contending teams model themselves EXACTLY like team
>Discovery - 1 and only 1 leader, with everyone else there to serve the
>leader?

Leadership is not a something you assign in a flow chart.

 

[Frank Drackman]

"Jonathan v.d. Sluis" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "J Jones" <[email protected]> schreef in bericht
> news:[email protected]...
>> Much is being said about Lance's competition not being as prepared as
>> they
>> should be - which, I tend to agree with. But, to me it seems like the
> other
>> team's leadership models are severely flawed when compared to Discovery.
>
> I've noticed some other factors in which the disco boys have a definite
> advantage:
>
> - None of the other teams prepare for the tour. Only Lance really trains
> professionally.
>
> - The other teams don't explore the stages before the tour.
>
> - Other teams are too caught up their old traditions. For example, they
> refuse to explore technical innovations for their equipment. Only Lance
> rides good gear. He has a carbon frame, and everybody knows that a carbon
> frame gives you the fastest bike.
>
> - Ullrich eats too many donuts in the winter.
>
> - Ullrich doesn't live for his sport. He doesn't try hard enough to win
> and
> wastes his talent.
>
> - The Europros rely on drugs, Lance relies on training to get better.
>
> - The mentality of Old Europe prevents people there from winning.
>
> - The Disco Boys are all good friends, I mean buddies. There's Chechu, and
> Eki, and Mad Max, they are all class acts unlike those doped Europros.
> Other
> teams meet eachother for the first time at the first day of the tour.
>


You have to try harder than this. You pined the troll meter way too early
in the message

 

[David Ferguson]

On Wed, 6 Jul 2005 07:39:17 -0400, "J Jones" <[email protected]> wrote:

>Much is being said about Lance's competition not being as prepared as they
>should be - which, I tend to agree with. But, to me it seems like the other
>team's leadership models are severely flawed when compared to Discovery.
>Team leadership profiles are:
>
>Discovery: Lance, Lance, Lance
>T-Mobile: Jan, Kloden, Vino
>Phonak: Floyd, Botero
>
>Why wouldn't these top-contending teams model themselves EXACTLY like team
>Discovery - 1 and only 1 leader, with everyone else there to serve the
>leader? This whole business of "Jan's our leader, unless he sucks, then
>Vino or Kloden can take over" seems disorganized (at the least), but would
>also prevent the team from developing the unity and appropriate training
>regiments to win. Am I missing something here? Seems like a no-brainer to
>me - the Discovery model clearly works.
>Jeff
>


I understand what you are saying but I whole heartedly disagree.

Example: LeMond and Hinault.

The real problem in your example is that NONE of those people is going
to beat Armstrong (ick, that sounds so July trollish).

If you had two guys on a team who were true contenders and the team
split then it might be an issue.

CSC is running the "Discovery model" and while they are doing well,
they are little more threat so far.

D

 

[gwhite]

[email protected] wrote:
>
> On Wed, 6 Jul 2005 07:39:17 -0400, "J Jones" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >Much is being said about Lance's competition not being as prepared as they
> >should be - which, I tend to agree with. But, to me it seems like the other
> >team's leadership models are severely flawed when compared to Discovery.
> >Team leadership profiles are:
> >
> >Discovery: Lance, Lance, Lance
> >T-Mobile: Jan, Kloden, Vino
> >Phonak: Floyd, Botero
> >
> >Why wouldn't these top-contending teams model themselves EXACTLY like team
> >Discovery - 1 and only 1 leader, with everyone else there to serve the
> >leader?
>
> Leadership is not a something you assign in a flow chart.

Not that people haven't tried.

 

[Jonathan v.d. Sluis]

"Frank Drackman" <[email protected]> schreef in bericht
news:[email protected]...
>
> "Jonathan v.d. Sluis" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> >
> > "J Jones" <[email protected]> schreef in bericht
> > news:[email protected]...
> >> Much is being said about Lance's competition not being as prepared as
> >> they
> >> should be - which, I tend to agree with. But, to me it seems like the
> > other
> >> team's leadership models are severely flawed when compared to
Discovery.
> >
> > I've noticed some other factors in which the disco boys have a definite
> > advantage:
> >
> > - None of the other teams prepare for the tour. Only Lance really trains
> > professionally.
> >
> > - The other teams don't explore the stages before the tour.
> >
> > - Other teams are too caught up their old traditions. For example, they
> > refuse to explore technical innovations for their equipment. Only Lance
> > rides good gear. He has a carbon frame, and everybody knows that a
carbon
> > frame gives you the fastest bike.
> >
> > - Ullrich eats too many donuts in the winter.
> >
> > - Ullrich doesn't live for his sport. He doesn't try hard enough to win
> > and
> > wastes his talent.
> >
> > - The Europros rely on drugs, Lance relies on training to get better.
> >
> > - The mentality of Old Europe prevents people there from winning.
> >
> > - The Disco Boys are all good friends, I mean buddies. There's Chechu,
and
> > Eki, and Mad Max, they are all class acts unlike those doped Europros.
> > Other
> > teams meet eachother for the first time at the first day of the tour.
> >
>
>
> You have to try harder than this. You pined the troll meter way too early
> in the message

Yes, the original was better.

 

[gwhite]

J Jones wrote:
>
> Why wouldn't these top-contending teams model themselves EXACTLY like team
> Discovery - 1 and only 1 leader, with everyone else there to serve the
> leader?

Maybe the other teams don't have anyone so clearly superior and
consistant.

 

[Jonathan v.d. Sluis]

"gwhite" <[email protected]> schreef in bericht
news:[email protected]...
> J Jones wrote:
> >
> > Why wouldn't these top-contending teams model themselves EXACTLY like
team
> > Discovery - 1 and only 1 leader, with everyone else there to serve the
> > leader?
>
> Maybe the other teams don't have anyone so clearly superior and
> consistant.

You may be right. I hadn't thought about that.

 

[danko]

God, we have a poet and he likes cycling.

 

[Jack Hollis]

On Wed, 6 Jul 2005 21:04:31 +0200, "Jonathan v.d. Sluis"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>Ullrich doesn't live for his sport. He doesn't try hard enough to win
>> > and
>> > wastes his talent.


Jan has been good enough over the past 7 years to beat everyone except
one guy. If it weren't for Lance, the conversation would be about if
Jan is one of the greatest of all time after he won the TdF 6 times.

I think a lot of the dissapointment in Jan comes from people who don't
like Lance and are frustrated that their hopes are dashed every year.

Jan is who he is and it's a rare person who is able to live up to
their full potential, not to mention other peoples expectations.

 

[David Ferguson]

On Wed, 06 Jul 2005 20:24:57 -0400, Jack Hollis <[email protected]>
wrote:

>On Wed, 6 Jul 2005 21:04:31 +0200, "Jonathan v.d. Sluis"
><[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>Ullrich doesn't live for his sport. He doesn't try hard enough to win
>>> > and
>>> > wastes his talent.
>
>
>Jan has been good enough over the past 7 years to beat everyone except
>one guy. If it weren't for Lance, the conversation would be about if
>Jan is one of the greatest of all time after he won the TdF 6 times.
>
>I think a lot of the dissapointment in Jan comes from people who don't
>like Lance and are frustrated that their hopes are dashed every year.
>
>Jan is who he is and it's a rare person who is able to live up to
>their full potential, not to mention other peoples expectations.


Personally, after having watched Jan since before Armstrong came back,
the difference appears to me to be the fact that Armstrong knows you
win the tour a month before you get there and Jan thinks you win it
during July.

D

 

[Rico X. Partay]

Jack Hollis wrote:

> Jan has been good enough over the past 7 years to beat
> everyone except one guy.


You mean except for the other two guys who beat him last
year?