Torque wrench recommendations

On Tue, 6 Apr 2004 22:10:39 +0000 (UTC), "Paul Davis"
<[email hidden]> wrote in message
<[email hidden]>:

Quoted message said:

Could anyone recommend a useable wrench.

The only torque wrench any cyclist will ever need: <url:http://www.sheldonbrown.com/tork-
grip.html>

--
Guy
===
May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after
posting. chapmancentral.co.ukchapmancentral.co.ukOpen ↗

88% of helmet statistics are made up, 65% of them at
Washington University

Paul Davis said:

Hi, I'm a keen cyclist but very much the beginner in
terms of maintainence. However I'm starting to get into
bike maintainance and am looking for a suitable torque
wrench. I've been told that cheap torque wrenches got
wildly out of calibration quickly and are unreliable at
the ends of their range and that beam type ones aren't
really that good.

I currently have a cheap Draper unit (10-80Nm) that only
torques right hand threads and am unsure how this leaves
me doing bottom brackets.

Could anyone recommend a useable wrench. I'm ok doing
small fasteners by hand but want something reliable for
crank arms and BBs, cheap if possible but not too cheap so
as to be unreliable.

I've heard ok things about Halfords Pro and Norbar, I
don't know where my 30 quid Draper fits in.

Thanks for any thoughts, Paul - definately and
mechanical newbie!

It's a 3T problem, there are 3 levels of torque:

T = Tight. FT = F***ing Tight. VFT = Very F***ing Tight.

Remember, don't force it use a bigger hammer.

Paul Davis said:

Hi, I'm a keen cyclist but very much the beginner in
terms of maintainence. However I'm starting to get into
bike maintainance and am looking for a suitable torque
wrench. I've been told that cheap torque wrenches got
wildly out of calibration quickly and are unreliable at
the ends of their range and that beam type ones aren't
really that good.

I currently have a cheap Draper unit (10-80Nm) that only
torques right hand threads and am unsure how this leaves
me doing bottom brackets.

Could anyone recommend a useable wrench. I'm ok doing
small fasteners by hand but want something reliable for
crank arms and BBs, cheap if possible but not too cheap so
as to be unreliable.

I've heard ok things about Halfords Pro and Norbar, I
don't know where my 30 quid Draper fits in.

Thanks for any thoughts, Paul - definately and
mechanical newbie!

I don't think you need one for BBs or pedals or other backwards-
threads. Just tighten them till they're moderately tight,
and they won't come loose because the pedalling action works
against this. Or such is my experience - this is why these
threads are made backwards.

Unlike the other posters, I wouldn't mind a torque wrench
for some jobs like tightening steerers (get it too tight,
and the fork can split; too loose...) and I've stripped a
few 4 mil bolt in the past (and always felt so stupid
after). But all these are RHTs - and I don't think they're
super-precision jobs. How inaccurate do cheap torque-
wrenches get?

Quoted post said:

Originally posted by Paul Davis
Hi, I'm a keen cyclist ... [edit]

Could anyone recommend a useable wrench. I'm ok doing small
fasteners by hand but want something reliable for crank arms
and BBs, cheap if possible but not too cheap so as to be
unreliable.

I've heard ok things about Halfords Pro and Norbar, I don't
know where my 30 quid Draper fits in.

Thanks for any thoughts, Paul - definately and
mechanical newbie!

Have a look at this site:

http://www.handytools.co.uk

You can compare various manufacturer's specs and prices. Personally I'd opt for a Britool - at least you know it's going to last and not go haywire on you.

On Tue, 06 Apr 2004 23:24:19 +0100, "Just zis Guy, you know?"
<[email hidden]> ([email hidden])

Quoted message said:

On Tue, 6 Apr 2004 22:10:39 +0000 (UTC), "Paul Davis"
<[email hidden]> wrote in message
<[email hidden]>:

Quoted message said:

Could anyone recommend a useable wrench.

IRTA " re-usable wench".

Quoted message said:

The only torque wrench any cyclist will ever need: <url:http://www.sheldonbrown.com/tork-
grip.html>

I've got a set of torque-limiting screwdrivers. Available
for 99p for two dozen at your local car-boot sale.

--
Matt K Dunedin, NZ

Paul Davis said:

Hi, I'm a keen cyclist but very much the beginner in terms
of maintainence. However I'm starting to get into bike
maintainance and am looking for a suitable torque wrench.
I've been told that cheap torque wrenches got wildly out of
calibration quickly and are unreliable at the ends of their
range and that beam type ones aren't really that good.

I currently have a cheap Draper unit (10-80Nm) that only
torques right hand threads and am unsure how this leaves me
doing bottom brackets.

Could anyone recommend a useable wrench. I'm ok doing small
fasteners by hand but want something reliable for crank
arms and BBs, cheap if possible but not too cheap so as to
be unreliable.

I've heard ok things about Halfords Pro and Norbar, I don't
know where my 30 quid Draper fits in.

I've got a Halfords Pro one which I've used a fair bit on
the motorbike. Nice bit of kit, reasonable price and
lifetime no quibble guarantee if it breaks.
--
"We take these risks, not to escape from life, but to
prevent life escaping from us." bensales.combensales.comOpen ↗

anonymous coward said:

I don't think you need one for BBs or pedals or other backwards-
threads. Just tighten them till they're moderately tight,
and they won't come loose because the pedalling action
works against this. Or such is my experience - this is why
these threads are made backwards.

I tend to agree but they can still come loose sometimes.

Cartridge BBs can often bind if done up very tight, so that
often limits you before any worry about thread/frame damage.
This is less of an issue if shell has been faced properly
(so faces are parallel).

Quoted message said:

Unlike the other posters, I wouldn't mind a torque wrench
for some jobs like tightening steerers (get it too tight,
and the fork can split; too loose...

And what? The stem would just twist round rather than come
off if the bolts were a little too loose. Tight enough to
stop twisting should be sufficient - that's moderately tight
with an ordinary allen key.

I have stripped these threads myself but that was before I
realised the above. I was using nearly my full hand strength
on an allen key. Nothing like that is necessary.

A torque wrench is good for cranks.

~PB

Paul Davis said:

I currently have a cheap Draper unit (10-80Nm) that only
torques right hand threads

Are you sure the bit can't be pushed through to the other
side of the tool?

I can't recommend a particular model but a good supplier of
Draper tools
is:

justoffbase-tools.co.uktools.aspOpen ↗

~PB

Quoted message said:

The only torque wrench any cyclist will ever need:
url:http://www.sheldonbrown.com/tork-grip.html

See tinyurl.comyrxbaOpen ↗ for Sheldon "Torque Wrench? I
Don' Need No Steenkin' Torque Wrench!" Brown's more serious
thoughts on TRs, including:

"A torque wrench is an automotive tool, quite un-
necessary for bicycle work. While I'm not much of a car
mechanic, my understanding is that the major application
for torque wrenches is to provide even tightening of
cylinder heads and other covers that rely on deformable
gaskets for sealing. Providing even torque on all of the
fasteners helps prevent deforming the head and provides
even compression of the gasket. There is no similar
application on a bicycle."

~PB

We had this issue raised in u.r.c fairly recently, if you want to read
the previous thread it can be found here:

makeashorterlink.commakeashorterlink.comOpen ↗

I recommended Norbar wrenches and I'll do so again now. They
are excellent quality tools and good value to boot, about 50
quid will buy you just what you need, which is probably a
Norbar SL1.

I use torque tools constantly at work, and I'd choose Norbar
over Halfords everytime. In fact, I prefer Norbar wrenches
to the (much more expensive) Snap On ones I currently have.

Paul Davis said:

Hi, I'm a keen cyclist but very much the beginner in terms
of maintainence. However I'm starting to get into bike
maintainance and am looking for a suitable torque wrench.
I've been told that cheap torque wrenches got wildly out of
calibration quickly and are unreliable at the ends of their
range and that beam type ones aren't really that good.

I currently have a cheap Draper unit (10-80Nm) that only
torques right hand threads and am unsure how this leaves me
doing bottom brackets.

Could anyone recommend a useable wrench. I'm ok doing small
fasteners by hand but want something reliable for crank
arms and BBs, cheap if possible but not too cheap so as to
be unreliable.

I've heard ok things about Halfords Pro and Norbar, I don't
know where my 30 quid Draper fits in.

Thanks for any thoughts, Paul - definately and
mechanical newbie!

--

"Bob"

'The people have spoken, the [censored]'

Email address is spam trapped.
To reply directly remove the beverage.

Thanks for all the thoughts. What's the general view on beam
type torque wrenches such as the Park TW-2? My LBS has
warned me off them but other people seem to recommend them
as they tend not to go out of calibration like clickers. Are
they accurate and reliable?

I've seen Draper units for as little as £7.50 whilst the
Parks go for £39+

Pete Biggs said:

anonymous coward said:

I don't think you need one for BBs or pedals or other backwards-
threads. Just tighten them till they're moderately tight,
and they won't come loose because the pedalling action
works against this. Or such is my experience - this is
why these threads are made backwards.

I tend to agree but they can still come loose sometimes.

Cartridge BBs can often bind if done up very tight, so
that often limits you before any worry about thread/frame
damage. This is less of an issue if shell has been faced
properly (so faces are parallel).

Quoted message said:

Unlike the other posters, I wouldn't mind a torque wrench
for some jobs like tightening steerers (get it too tight,
and the fork can split; too loose...

And what?

I've had 2 problems with steerers in the past. One of them
kept suddenly coming loose however much I tightened it - I
binned it and replaced it with one that seemed more
dependable though I only tightened it moderately. The next
problem was with a friend's bike where I could never
tighten up the steerer-bolt until the steerer felt stiff.
It was always quite easy to move it relative to the wheel,
even when I'd tightened up the bolt as tight as I dared
(though perhaps I'm a weakling compared to you). In light
of my past experience that had left me quite shaken - I
sent her to the LBS.

Quoted message said:

The stem would just twist round rather than come off if
the bolts were a little too loose. Tight enough to stop
twisting should be sufficient - that's moderately tight
with an ordinary allen key.

Normally works for me too - maybe I've been unlucky.

Quoted message said:

I have stripped these threads myself but that was before I
realised the above. I was using nearly my full hand
strength on an allen key. Nothing like that is necessary.

Paul Davis said:

Thanks for all the thoughts. What's the general view on
beam type torque wrenches such as the Park TW-2? My LBS has
warned me off them but other people seem to recommend them
as they tend not to go out of calibration like clickers.
Are they accurate and reliable?

Beam type torque wrenches are perfectly fine, although in
general they need more care in use and can be awkward and
even difficult sometimes. They also need to be of good
quality in the first place, they ain't necessarily a cheap
option to a good torque wrench if that is your hope.

A beam torque wrench will require you to always pay
attention how you hold it, your hand must be in the correct
position when applying force for the reading to be accurate.
You'll also need to have your eyes relatively square on and
level with the scale, so that you can read it properly when
using the wrench. This can be inconvenient as you can't just
pick up the tool and click off the fasteners you've been
working on. You'll find you may have to start wandering
around the bike, half kneeling or whatever to get yourself
in the right position to use the torque wrench. A pain in
the rear if you ask me.

You don't need to worry too much about your wrench going out
of calibration. If you buy a quality tool in the first place
then the kind of usage you'll give it at home means it will
stay in good working condition for bleedin' yonks. It's
tools that live in places like workshops and are used for
thousands of cycles that need will require regular re-
calibration.

I wouldn't buy a Park wrench myself. It is very unlikely
they manufacture their own and you'll be paying just for the
Park brand name, which (IMHO) isn't worth much more than
Wilkos Hardware stamped on your tools. *shrug*

If I were in the market for a beam type torque wrench I'd be
considering options from the same manufacturers as a click
type, namely Norbar, Facom etc.

--

"Bob"

'The people have spoken, the [censored]'

Email address is spam trapped.
To reply directly remove the beverage.

Pete Biggs said:

"A torque wrench is an automotive tool, quite un-
necessary for bicycle work. While I'm not much of a
car mechanic, my understanding is that the major
application for torque wrenches is to provide even
tightening of cylinder heads and other covers that
rely on deformable gaskets for sealing. Providing even
torque on all of the fasteners helps prevent deforming
the head and provides even compression of the gasket.
There is no similar application on a bicycle."

Well, kind of. I have more than a little experience of car
mechanicing. What Sheldon says is true, although there are
other reasons for using a torque wrench as well. Every bolt
and set screw needs to be tightened within a certain torque
range: too loose and it will work back out, too tight and it
will strip. In some automotive applications the critical
minimum torque is much higher than in others, cylinder
heads, bearings and gearbox components spring to mind. This
is at least partly, as Sheldon suggests, about ensuring that
the assembled whole is within the designed tolerances. I
also used to use a torque wrench where the bolt was
inaccessible after fitting (e.g. inside the sump). But every
single bolt on a car has a correct torque, and if you get
the manufacturer's workshop manual rather than the Haynes
one you will often find that it has a table of torque
settings for bolts where the torque is not otherwise
specified.

For those fastenins where torque is not critical to maintain
overall tolerance the Mk. 1 Hand works surprisingly well. A
decent set of spanners is the key; you will find that the
smaller sizes have shorter spanners. That's to stop you
overtorquing them. With a relatively small amount of
practice you can feel when a bolt is tight (practice on
steel because it's harder on aluminium and more of a problem
when you're wrong).

But when you are building cars (or indeed bikes) by the
gazillion, hand-torquing every bolt is not an option, so
they use torque-controlled screwdrivers and wrenches. Which
require a torque setting. Which they then publish to cover
their arses and "because it's there". So although the
acceptable torque might be 0.8-1.4Nm they will publish 1.1
+/- 0.05 Nm because that's the figure they use on the line
and that's the accuracy to which the tool is certified or
calibrated.

It's another case of meaningless precision, in other words.
Except when it isn't.

--
Guy
===
May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after
posting. chapmancentral.co.ukchapmancentral.co.ukOpen ↗

88% of helmet statistics are made up, 65% of them at
Washington University

Paul Davis said:

Hi, I'm a keen cyclist but very much the beginner in
terms of maintainence. However I'm starting to get into
bike maintainance and am looking for a suitable torque
wrench. I've been told that cheap torque wrenches got
wildly out of calibration quickly and are unreliable at
the ends of their range and that beam type ones aren't
really that good.

I currently have a cheap Draper unit (10-80Nm) that only
torques right hand threads and am unsure how this leaves
me doing bottom brackets.

Could anyone recommend a useable wrench. I'm ok doing
small fasteners by hand but want something reliable for
crank arms and BBs, cheap if possible but not too cheap so
as to be unreliable.

I've heard ok things about Halfords Pro and Norbar, I
don't know where my 30 quid Draper fits in.

If you look at the excellent Park article
<http://www.parktool.com/repair_help/torque.shtml>, you can
see that the Norbar Slimline SL-1 which covers a range of
8-54Nm is ideal. It has been strongly recommended in this
newsgroup before. I've never been able to justify the
expense myself, but it is on my wishlist.

The Halfords Pro is cheaper, but probably also suitable for
bike maintenance.

--
David Green Cambridge, UK.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
DON'T MAIL THE REPLY ADDRESS! Before you click 'Send',
replace 'deadspam.com' with 'onetel.net.uk'.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~