touring frames???

Gotte said:

I'm planning a two week trip with a friend across Northern France and into Germany for next year. We've both got mountain bikes with cro mo frames. both are in pretty fair condition.
Ive been reading up, and I see a general line of thought that a touring bike is best, with maybe a bike built around an older mtb frame second.
Am I right in thinking that the only real differece is length of the chainstays (for panniers) and the angles of the frame.
Is an early 90s MTB likely to be close to a touring angle.
Also, anyone know what the angles are on a good touring frame? I'd be interested in seeing how close the angles are on my bike.

Thanks in advance.

Hi, your mountain bike should be good enough for a tour, if you need to see the angles, the Trek 520 is a made to tour bike and you can check out the geometry, and compare.
I also used this information to get my wife the Trek 7.2FX WSD, it has almost the same angles.
Hope it helps you out some, cheers

xilios said:

Hi, your mountain bike should be good enough for a tour, if you need to see the angles, the Trek 520 is a made to tour bike and you can check out the geometry, and compare.
I also used this information to get my wife the Trek 7.2FX WSD, it has almost the same angles.
Hope it helps you out some, cheers

Thanks for that.
I've had great fun reading your trip from Belgium to Greece. It was particularly interesting seeing as I was in Malmedy last summer (didn;t do any cycling there, though - family holiday). I'm upto Switzerland so far, which is great to see, because I've been in the alps and loved them. Look forward to reading it to the end.

Again, thanks for the input.

Gotte said:

I'm planning a two week trip with a friend across Northern France and into Germany for next year. We've both got mountain bikes with cro mo frames. both are in pretty fair condition.
Ive been reading up, and I see a general line of thought that a touring bike is best, with maybe a bike built around an older mtb frame second.
Am I right in thinking that the only real differece is length of the chainstays (for panniers) and the angles of the frame.
Is an early 90s MTB likely to be close to a touring angle.
Also, anyone know what the angles are on a good touring frame? I'd be interested in seeing how close the angles are on my bike.

Thanks in advance.

i think a mtb is a fine choice for touring, if you put proper tires on... and of course no suspension. Just make sure all the contact points are good for long-distance riding. Ideally you'd have something other than a flat bar -- although some people prefer it, there's no right/wrong on that. I prefer drops, but to each his own. My touring bike is a bridgestone xo-1, which is a 26" wheeled bike with road geometry. not exactly a touring bike, more of a do-everything superbike. i don't think a traditional touring bike is all that much better, but i haven't done a tour on one, so i can't say for sure. you can definately do it on a well-prepared mtb. of course, there are the basic touring features that you'll need like eyelets for racks -- and front rack mounts are not standard on rigid forks, i believe. but you can get around that with clamps, so it's not that big of a deal. Off the top of my head, I'd say the most important features for a touring bike are: eyelets for racks, heel clearance (long chainstays), slick tires (but not super skinny), triple chainring, good saddle. after that, things like barcon shifters and clearance for fenders if you'll be riding in the wet at any point.

Thanks for that. I think I'm decided on keeping the olf MTB from. It's cromo, probably heavier than I'd like, but there you go. It'll keep me fit. I remember reading about some chap who cycled across Alaska at the turn of the century on a bone shaker, so I suspect, relatively speaking a non triple butted yet cromo frame isn't that mch of a burden.
It's okay as frames go - it's got old MTB geometry, so it's usable, and it's long enough - chain stays are about 43 cm, and wheelbase is 104 cm. It's got eylets on the back (though I'm tempted by a trailer, unless we choose to go with the barest minemum).
I drilled the rear brake bar on the frame, so I'm trying caliper brakes on 27 wheels as oppesed to 26. I'm only used to 27s on a road bike, so I'm not sure on a MTB style frame.
That's my next decision - whether to go with fast rolling 27s or slower but more comfortable (?) 26s. Oh that and whether to go for a more raised headset. I'm undecided about bars, as yet. I might go with flats, but with barends fitted closer into the headset (those loopover type as opposed to the plugin type).

Any suggestions welcome, of course.

Gotte said:

That's my next decision - whether to go with fast rolling 27s or slower but more comfortable (?) 26s.

The 26 wheels will give you lower gears, which you may or may not prefer. As for 700C being faster rolling, well, they are, but do you ever notice the difference?

artemidorus said:

The 26 wheels will give you lower gears, which you may or may not prefer.

Hmmm, I'd not thought of it like that....Now you've got me thinking.

Actually, the thing that's preying on my mind most is stem choice, or rather, how to get one that gets my position right so I don;t get numb hands, which I tend to get on my MTB. at present my bars are flat, but the stem is short. It makes the bike ride really nicely (though perhaps the bars could be a touch higher), but I still get a numb left hand. I've got bar ends and move my hands arond a lot, but i don't know, maybe I'm just getting old...

Gotte said:

Hmmm, I'd not thought of it like that....Now you've got me thinking.

Actually, the thing that's preying on my mind most is stem choice, or rather, how to get one that gets my position right so I don;t get numb hands, which I tend to get on my MTB. at present my bars are flat, but the stem is short. It makes the bike ride really nicely (though perhaps the bars could be a touch higher), but I still get a numb left hand. I've got bar ends and move my hands arond a lot, but i don't know, maybe I'm just getting old...

I love the Look Ergo-stem..

photojtn said:

I love the Look Ergo-stem..

Thanks for that. I'll check it out.

Gotte said:

Thanks for that. I think I'm decided on keeping the olf MTB from. It's cromo, probably heavier than I'd like, but there you go. It'll keep me fit. I remember reading about some chap who cycled across Alaska at the turn of the century on a bone shaker, so I suspect, relatively speaking a non triple butted yet cromo frame isn't that mch of a burden.
It's okay as frames go - it's got old MTB geometry, so it's usable, and it's long enough - chain stays are about 43 cm, and wheelbase is 104 cm. It's got eylets on the back (though I'm tempted by a trailer, unless we choose to go with the barest minemum).
I drilled the rear brake bar on the frame, so I'm trying caliper brakes on 27 wheels as oppesed to 26. I'm only used to 27s on a road bike, so I'm not sure on a MTB style frame.
That's my next decision - whether to go with fast rolling 27s or slower but more comfortable (?) 26s. Oh that and whether to go for a more raised headset. I'm undecided about bars, as yet. I might go with flats, but with barends fitted closer into the headset (those loopover type as opposed to the plugin type).

Any suggestions welcome, of course.

We did our last tour on 26" wheels and found them fine. We were using 1.5" slicks and they rolled well and gave enough so I when I made a wrong turn and rode down a few stairs it was not a worry. 26" wheels are stronger and theres not that much difference in rolling resistance.
Drop bars do give more positions.
If you change to caliper brakes you will limit the size tyres you can use. Canti's work well with road levers.
A good book to read while you are on your ride is "Around the World on a Wheel" by John Foster Fraser. They rode 19,000 mile around the world on fixed gear bikes inthe 1890's. Weight wasn't a problem!

Cheers

Geoff

Thanks for that. I have to use caliper brakes if I fit 700 because the frame lugged for a 26 wheel. That may be the one reason I choose 26's. Main problem is they don;t work very well. Still, I've never had a caliper brake that has worked well. I was thinking of tryng a BMX brake. I've read about them being fitted to MTB frames with 700s, but it's all exta expense that might just be good money after bad. so I don;t know.
I'm still undecided.
I read a piece that equated 700 to 1 mph quicker (I'm assuming for peddling output) to 26's. I have to say, the 700s I've got feel nice, but I've not tried them against slick 26's, so I don;t know.
Thanks for the book recommendation. I'll check it out.

Oh, did you try those 1.5's on cinder roads? how were they?

Gotte said:

Thanks for that. I have to use caliper brakes if I fit 700 because the frame lugged for a 26 wheel. That may be the one reason I choose 26's. Main problem is they don;t work very well. Still, I've never had a caliper brake that has worked well. I was thinking of tryng a BMX brake. I've read about them being fitted to MTB frames with 700s, but it's all exta expense that might just be good money after bad. so I don;t know.
I'm still undecided.
I read a piece that equated 700 to 1 mph quicker (I'm assuming for peddling output) to 26's. I have to say, the 700s I've got feel nice, but I've not tried them against slick 26's, so I don;t know.
Thanks for the book recommendation. I'll check it out.

Oh, did you try those 1.5's on cinder roads? how were they?

A BMX brake on a loaded touring bike? Don't even let the thought of doing this speculate about crossing your mind. Definitly good money after bad.

I am not sure what you call cinder roads but we used the tyres even on a fairly gnarly dirt road (West Head down to PittwaterYHA at night) and even though the traction wasn't there we still made it down and up without walking or punctures.

Cheers

Geoff

I once saw one that was like a vice. I forget what it was called, though. What did they used to use before V's? Like I said, I've never had an effective caliper brake, but someone must have, once 🙂. I once had some centrepulls that were nice. Maybe I'll check out ebay. Or how about road bike calipers. Maybe they'd work. Maybe I'll swap them over from my road bike to try.

Yes, you're right, a cinder path is a dirt track - kind of gravelled (they used to use cinders from industy). I don't know if I'll e encountering any on the treck I'm planning, but I bet I wll.

Again, many thanks for the input.

Gotte said:

I once saw one that was like a vice. I forget what it was called, though. What did they used to use before V's? Like I said, I've never had an effective caliper brake, but someone must have, once 🙂. I once had some centrepulls that were nice. Maybe I'll check out ebay. Or how about road bike calipers. Maybe they'd work.

I've just fitted some Shimano cantilever brakes and levers from the early to mid 90's (a friend gave me them after a groupset modernisation): XT levers, which increase their mechanical advantage as they travel due to a floating cable stop, narrow-profile calipers with a semi-floating yoke and modern, after-market, long, narrow pads. I wasn't expecting to be impressed, as I'm a linear-pull convert, but they work a real treat! Shame that they've probably been off the market for more than a decade...
A road dual-pivot caliper would suffice for the rear brake if you're happy with the very limited tyre choice you would then have (not a single-pivot one!), but I'd want something with better advantage on the front.

Yesterday I used my converted MTB to touringbike for a long training ride in the backwoods of Oslo, ending with a descent of som 1400 feet on tarmac. I usually ride this downhill with my roadbike and the difference in better braking power was very noticable. My MTB has Conti Travelcontacts, old cantilever front/U-brake rear with Cool-stop pads and roadtype levers on drop bars. If you are going to ride on less than good tarmac this is IMO a much better setup than 700 wheels with skinny tires. I also feel safer in that I can ride on the very edge of the road and take any kind of roughness out there when the traffic is scary.

Gotte said:

I once saw one that was like a vice. I forget what it was called, though. What did they used to use before V's? Like I said, I've never had an effective caliper brake, but someone must have, once 🙂. I once had some centrepulls that were nice. Maybe I'll check out ebay. Or how about road bike calipers. Maybe they'd work. Maybe I'll swap them over from my road bike to try.

Yes, you're right, a cinder path is a dirt track - kind of gravelled (they used to use cinders from industy). I don't know if I'll e encountering any on the treck I'm planning, but I bet I wll.

Again, many thanks for the input.

modern dual-pivot calipers work great and are easy to maintain. with that said, i wouldn't do that. stick with the cantis and 26s. i don't think you'll mind the 26s - you might even prefer them. but switching from the oem wheel size and brake spec seems like asking for trouble on a touring bike. i'd say take as few chances as possible, and worry less about the bike.

ishiwata said:

modern dual-pivot calipers work great and are easy to maintain. with that said, i wouldn't do that. stick with the cantis and 26s. i don't think you'll mind the 26s - you might even prefer them. but switching from the oem wheel size and brake spec seems like asking for trouble on a touring bike. i'd say take as few chances as possible, and worry less about the bike.

Thanks for that. I may wll do that. I've just splashed out on some shimano canti's (£40), and they aren;t that much better than the old ones I was using. I don;t know what it is, but I think I may well ust have to go back to 26's. Luckily, I can put the shimanos on my road bike, so it wasn't money down the drain.

Again, manythanks for the input

Phil