Towbar carrier for six bikes

Hi all, I have been hunting for ideas for towbar carriers. I have found
lots that carry four bikes but none that carry more. Has anyone ever
made or seen one for six bikes? Anyone know if there is any sort of
legal restriction on size/length of towbar mounted carriers/boxes etc?
We have welding gear and materials so could make one to fit. It would be
to go on a diesel minibus so no issues with engine power, weight,
suspension etc.

Towbar carriers seem the perfect idea. A trailer has to be taken
everywhere or else one has to find a safe place to leave it. A roof rack
would be awkward to load and unload regularly and the places we go often
have height restrictions on the car parks.

Any thoughts/ideas please?
--
Holly, in France.
Holiday Home in Dordogne
http://la-plaine.chez.tiscali.fr/

"Holly, in France" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Hi all, I have been hunting for ideas for towbar carriers. I have found
lots that carry four bikes but none that carry more. Has anyone ever
made or seen one for six bikes? Anyone know if there is any sort of
legal restriction on size/length of towbar mounted carriers/boxes etc?
We have welding gear and materials so could make one to fit. It would be
to go on a diesel minibus so no issues with engine power, weight,
suspension etc.

Towbar carriers seem the perfect idea. A trailer has to be taken
everywhere or else one has to find a safe place to leave it. A roof rack
would be awkward to load and unload regularly and the places we go often
have height restrictions on the car parks.

Any thoughts/ideas please?

The big problem is the weight overhang. Having the weight off six bikes plus
the rack overhanging is going to have an effect on handling.

Moray Cuthill said:

The big problem is the weight overhang. Having the weight off six bikes plus
the rack overhanging is going to have an effect on handling.

And may pose a problem for the towbar itself. It may not be designed to
take that sort of loading.

Jon

in France said:

vehicle when fully loaded. We also tow a heavy road compressor with a
single axle. My maths/physics isn't good enough to do any sort of
meaningful calculation but I would have thought, again subjectively,
that six bikes even at a metre or so out from the towbar wouldn't
produce anything like the load of the trailer/compressor.

I would think that the weight of 6 bikes *all* acting through the
towbar would be worse than a heaviertrailer which is only partially
acting through the towbar. A trailer has weight infront and behind its
axle. Any weight behind the axle reduces the component of weight
downwards on the towbar.

--
Microsoft Sam speaks his mind:
www.artybee.net/sam_speaks_his_mind.mp3

"Holly, in France" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

That is a good point too. But these towbars are regularly used to pull
trailer loads of up to 1500kg. Trailer is double axle so carries alot of
the weight itself, but it still noticeably lowers the suspension on the
vehicle when fully loaded. We also tow a heavy road compressor with a
single axle. My maths/physics isn't good enough to do any sort of
meaningful calculation but I would have thought, again subjectively,
that six bikes even at a metre or so out from the towbar wouldn't
produce anything like the load of the trailer/compressor.

-- .
Holly
Holiday home in Dordogne
http://la-plaine.chez.tiscali.fr

Don't forget that the loading on a bike carrier is entirely on the towbar,
whereas on a trailer, the loading is on the towbar BUT also on the axle of
the trailer, hence a trailer can safely carry a much heavier load than when
the loading is entirely on the towbar - as is the case with a bike carrier.

Cheers, helen s

Moray Cuthill said:

"Holly, in France" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Hi all, I have been hunting for ideas for towbar carriers. I have
found lots that carry four bikes but none that carry more. Has
anyone ever
made or seen one for six bikes? Anyone know if there is any sort of
legal restriction on size/length of towbar mounted carriers/boxes
etc?
We have welding gear and materials so could make one to fit. It
would be to go on a diesel minibus so no issues with engine power,
weight, suspension etc.

Towbar carriers seem the perfect idea. A trailer has to be taken
everywhere or else one has to find a safe place to leave it. A roof
rack would be awkward to load and unload regularly and the places we
go often have height restrictions on the car parks.

Any thoughts/ideas please?

The big problem is the weight overhang. Having the weight off six
bikes plus the rack overhanging is going to have an effect on
handling.

Hmm, you could be right, thanks. I was guessing that if a normal car can
carry four bikes in this way, a loaded minibus would manage six. A
heavy trailer which affects the handling on a car seems to affect our
Peugeot Expert van less, and the Boxer minibus less again. All
subjective though....

--
^-- $
Holly testing a wierd and wonderful sig separator
http://la-plaine.chez.tiscali.fr/

Holly said:

That is a good point too. But these towbars are regularly used to pull
trailer loads of up to 1500kg.

They may pull 1500kg or more but the actual load downwards on the towbar
will probably not exceed 50kg which is about 4 bikes worth. Six bike
carriers are not built for a reason and the reason is both the weight on
the towbar and its mounting and the unweighting of the steering at the
front that all that weight cantilevered out the back produces. I would
suggest thinking again and having four or less on the back and two or
more on the roof.

Tony

Tony Raven said:

They may pull 1500kg or more but the actual load downwards on the towbar
will probably not exceed 50kg which is about 4 bikes worth. Six bike
carriers are not built for a reason and the reason is both the weight on
the towbar and its mounting and the unweighting of the steering at the
front that all that weight cantilevered out the back produces. I would
suggest thinking again and having four or less on the back and two or
more on the roof.

Or using a trailer. You can apparently get a trailer which has mountings
for bikes on its roof, or you could use use a large box trailer. Perhaps
you could buy a basic trailer frame and build a steel / glass fibre box
to take the bikes (You did mention a passing interest in homebuilding!)

Jon

Jon Senior said:

Moray Cuthill said:

The big problem is the weight overhang. Having the weight off six
bikes plus the rack overhanging is going to have an effect on
handling.

And may pose a problem for the towbar itself. It may not be designed
to take that sort of loading.

That is a good point too. But these towbars are regularly used to pull
trailer loads of up to 1500kg. Trailer is double axle so carries alot of
the weight itself, but it still noticeably lowers the suspension on the
vehicle when fully loaded. We also tow a heavy road compressor with a
single axle. My maths/physics isn't good enough to do any sort of
meaningful calculation but I would have thought, again subjectively,
that six bikes even at a metre or so out from the towbar wouldn't
produce anything like the load of the trailer/compressor.

-- .
Holly
Holiday home in Dordogne
http://la-plaine.chez.tiscali.fr

in France said:

Hi all, I have been hunting for ideas for towbar carriers. I have found
lots that carry four bikes but none that carry more. Has anyone ever
made or seen one for six bikes?

No, and I'd be faintly surprised of there were any. I have a Tradekar
Take Four which is not advised for fitting to cars below a certain
size due to the weight of carrier plus bikes - all car towbars have a
maximum permitted nose weight and four bikes and a rack exceeds that
for a lot of cars.

Pendle make a six-bike trailer, or you can put some on the back and
some on the roof. We travel with four on the towbar and the triplet
and sometimes my recumbent on the roof - room for more, as well :-)

Guy
--
http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk

"To every complex problem there is a solution which is
simple, neat and wrong" - HL Mencken

On Sun, 13 Mar 2005 12:40:18 +0000, Tony Raven <[email hidden]>

wrote in message : said:

They may pull 1500kg or more but the actual load downwards on the towbar
will probably not exceed 50kg which is about 4 bikes worth.

And consider the moment about the towbar attachment point...

Guy
--
http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk

"To every complex problem there is a solution which is
simple, neat and wrong" - HL Mencken

"Peter B" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Work out the distance from the towball to the rear axle, say 1500mm, a

40kg

Quoted message said:

weight @ 1m will equal the same, but of course you've also got the other 5
bikes at less than a metre to take into consideration.

Some dodgy maths there methinks :-(

Pete

"Jon Senior" <jon_AT_restlesslemon_DOT_co_DOT_uk> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Or using a trailer. You can apparently get a trailer which has mountings
for bikes on its roof, or you could use use a large box trailer. Perhaps
you could buy a basic trailer frame and build a steel / glass fibre box
to take the bikes (You did mention a passing interest in homebuilding!)

www.indespension.co.uk/
Make bicycle carrying trailers.

Pete.

On Sun, 13 Mar 2005 17:37:41 +0100, "Peter B" <[email hidden]>

wrote in message : said:

www.indespension.co.uk/
Make bicycle carrying trailers.

s/make/sell/ I think, but yes Indispension are pretty good - I got
mine from them (they have a place round the corner from me).

Guy
--
http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk

"To every complex problem there is a solution which is
simple, neat and wrong" - HL Mencken

Just zis Guy said:

Indispension are pretty good

I hope their trailers are better than their website! The only website
I've seen to compare was the old BRS (Truck rental company) one.

Jon

On Sun, 13 Mar 2005 19:59:32 +0000, Jon Senior
<jon_AT_restlesslemon_DOT_co_DOT_uk> wrote in message
<[email hidden]>:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Indispension are pretty good

I hope their trailers are better than their website!

It's great peanut butter, but the jar is something else.

Guy
--
http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk

"To every complex problem there is a solution which is
simple, neat and wrong" - HL Mencken

Jon Senior said:

Tony Raven wrote:

Thanks everyone for your replies, I'll reply to a few bits.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

They may pull 1500kg or more but the actual load downwards on the
towbar will probably not exceed 50kg which is about 4 bikes worth.

I have done a highly unscientific experiment and concluded that the load
downwards on the towbar with the trailer fully loaded is considerably
more than that! I weigh about 75kg and when I stood on the towbar and it
dropped the back of the van about 1/2". My son and I think from memory
that it drops it about 2" with the trailer on. That is not to say that
the towbar *should" be able to carry that weight, but it does! Neither
the towbar or the vehicle handbooks say anything about noseweights and I
haven't been able to find out on the internet either. The towbar is a
Peugeot fitted one and the van is going for service this week so I will
ask in the garage. Also, it is the type of towbar where the ball is held
on with two large bolts and can be interchanged with a pin type one for
commercial/agricultural use. Thus any carrier which we make will be
bolted on directly rather than relying on the towball.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Six bike carriers are not built for a reason

Good point.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

and the reason is both
the weight on the towbar and its mounting and the unweighting of the
steering at the front that all that weight cantilevered out the back
produces. I would suggest thinking again and having four or less on
the back and two or more on the roof.

Don't like the roof option for various reasons. We would have to buy a
proper roof rack which would rarely be used, also it would be hard to
get the bikes up and onto it, also the problem of the height barriers in
the car parks.

Quoted message said:

Or using a trailer. You can apparently get a trailer which has
mountings for bikes on its roof, or you could use use a large box
trailer. Perhaps you could buy a basic trailer frame and build a
steel / glass fibre box to take the bikes (You did mention a passing
interest in homebuilding!)

The trailer we have would carry all the bikes easily and is stable and
easy to tow. We would just have to make some sort of a rack to hold the
bikes in place and a security system to secure them. The problem when on
holiday is that we would have to take the trailer everywhere or find
somewhere suitable to leave it. Not an impossible problem though.

For the moment I will have a google and see if I can find any four bike
carrier designs that we could copy. Two of the bikes atm are childrens
sizes (but that won't be for long!) and could probably be fitted in the
boot if we packed carefully, with the four big ones on the back. Also I
have had an idea whereby two bikes could be mounted one above the other
in in frames, in order to reduce the leverage issue. I have seen bikes
carried like this on the back of camper vans but have never looked at
the details, I must keep a look out!

Thanks again for all your comments.

--
Holly, in France
Holiday Home in Dordogne
http://la-plaine.chez.tiscali.fr/

in France said:

Neither
the towbar or the vehicle handbooks say anything about noseweights and I
haven't been able to find out on the internet either.

Are you sure? What is the vehicule in question?

Guy
--
May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after posting.
http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk

88% of helmet statistics are made up, 65% of them at CHS, Puget Sound

Holly said:

Hi all, I have been hunting for ideas for towbar carriers. I have found
lots that carry four bikes but none that carry more. Has anyone ever
made or seen one for six bikes? Anyone know if there is any sort of
legal restriction on size/length of towbar mounted carriers/boxes etc?
We have welding gear and materials so could make one to fit. It would be
to go on a diesel minibus so no issues with engine power, weight,
suspension etc.

Towbar carriers seem the perfect idea. A trailer has to be taken
everywhere or else one has to find a safe place to leave it. A roof rack
would be awkward to load and unload regularly and the places we go often
have height restrictions on the car parks.

Any thoughts/ideas please?
--
Holly, in France.
Holiday Home in Dordogne
http://la-plaine.chez.tiscali.fr/

Hummm, I've seen one that might be big enough on a land-rover, similar
to: http://www.bak-rak.com/bikestuff.htm
But if you can fabricate how about additional spreaders off the chassis
as well? Some of the van based camper builders supply bigger racks that
replace a standard towbar too. Properly built 6 bikes shouldn't be a
problem, I've carried a HEAVY vintage motorcycle on a suitable towbar
rack in the past.

Niel.