TR Ben nevis

In article <[email hidden]>, Rooney
<[email hidden]> writes

Quoted message said:

But I do think they need to put more money
into tourism - it is a better earner for the locals than sheep
farming!

And it appears to be easier to fleece tourists than sheep !
--
Bill Grey
http://www.billboy.co.uk

In article <[email hidden]>, Fran
<[email hidden]> writes

Quoted message said:

[email hidden] said...

Quoted message said:

They're not happy with a decent profit, they just want to rip -off
holiday makers.

But that's not limited to Snowdonia; that just about describes
any area blessed with a thriving tourist industry.

Mac Arthur Glen (retail outlet near Sarn) - in the COSTA coffee shop it
coast £4.15 for two coffees and one cake! and we're not even tourists
there!!!

COSTA - a most appropriately names shop - COSTA fortune !
--
Bill Grey
http://www.billboy.co.uk

Quoted message said:

To be honest, I wouldn't shop there unless I had to. I find the area
far poorer in terms of choice, prices, customer service etc. than,
say, the Lake District. But I do think they need to put more money
into tourism - it is a better earner for the locals than sheep
farming!

Exactly. I can remember 15 or 20 years ago when the local economy of
Snowdonia was collapsing. Young adults had experienced a short period of
good but dangerous work when the powerstation at Llanberis was literally
being dynamited out of the rock. After construction ceased the area was in
a terrible state. I remember the scepticism of the locals when people
started talking about the importance of tourism.

Now the transformation is amazing. It may not be to everyone's choice but
at least the economy has some new strength to it. Many of the locals I knew
back then had to leave and seek work elsewhere in the UK and the community
was visibly ageing. Now the place is vibrant and lively which will help not
only the newcomers but those who want to stay or those who want to return.
Certainly, in places like Llanberis, Capel, Betwys and Bethesda much of this
transformation has been based on outdoor pursuit-type tourism.

And, even more remarkably, the locals have discovered the importance of
customer care and a warm welcome ....

--
Andy Howell
Birmingham, UK

To mail simply put back the dots ...

On 14/5/05 09:26, in article [email hidden], "W. D.

Grey said:

And it appears to be easier to fleece tourists than sheep !

True. Mind you if this makes the difference between a community going under
and one surviving it might not be too much of a bad thing!

--
Andy Howell
Birmingham, UK

To mail simply put back the dots ...

[email hidden] said...

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>, Fran
<[email hidden]> writes

Quoted message said:

[email hidden] said...

Quoted message said:

They're not happy with a decent profit, they just want to rip -off
holiday makers.

But that's not limited to Snowdonia; that just about describes
any area blessed with a thriving tourist industry.

Mac Arthur Glen (retail outlet near Sarn) - in the COSTA coffee shop it
coast £4.15 for two coffees and one cake! and we're not even tourists
there!!!

COSTA - a most appropriately names shop - COSTA fortune !

Yes, I know McArthur Glen very well as it's a favourite place
of mine. There's a rather fine health food shop there where I
can buy industrial quantities of things like crystallised
ginger and raw cashew nuts. I've eaten in the main eatery
there (the one by the cinema) and I've shopped occasionally in
Sainsburys - but I agree with you totally about the coffee
shop. It's lovely, but absolutely exorbitant. Better off
doing whatever you want in the main shops and then going
across to Sainsburys and have coffee and cake there instead;.
--
/
Fran O(<|={
\

In article <BEAB9EFC.42DF9%andy.howellNOSPAM@ecotrendDOTorgDOTuk>, Andy
Howell <andy.howellNOSPAM@ecotrendDOTorgDOTuk.?.invalid> writes

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

And it appears to be easier to fleece tourists than sheep !

True. Mind you if this makes the difference between a community going under
and one surviving it might not be too much of a bad thing!

My feelings are that the enterprise does well, but the man in the street
sees little of the profits
--
Bill Grey
http://www.billboy.co.uk

andy.howellNOSPAM@ecotrendDOTorgDOTuk said...

Quoted message said:

On 14/5/05 17:49, in article [email hidden], "W. D.

Grey said:

My feelings are that the enterprise does well, but the man in the street
sees little of the profits

Well, I',m sure that is true. But there wouldn't be much left of Llanberis
these days if it wasn't for tourism!

And we'd be without the world's finest caff.

--
/
Fran O(<|={
\

In article <BEACE3AF.42E84%andy.howellNOSPAM@ecotrendDOTorgDOTuk>, Andy
Howell <andy.howellNOSPAM@ecotrendDOTorgDOTuk.?.invalid> writes

Quoted message said:

On 14/5/05 17:49, in article [email hidden], "W. D.

Grey said:

My feelings are that the enterprise does well, but the man in the street
sees little of the profits

Well, I',m sure that is true. But there wouldn't be much left of Llanberis
these days if it wasn't for tourism!

What is there without the Electric Mountain and the Snowdon train.?

Llyn Padarn and the slate museum is well worth a visit.
--
Bill Grey
http://www.billboy.co.uk

In article <[email hidden]>, Fran
<[email hidden]> writes

Quoted message said:

andy.howellNOSPAM@ecotrendDOTorgDOTuk said...

Quoted message said:

On 14/5/05 17:49, in article [email hidden], "W. D.

Grey said:

My feelings are that the enterprise does well, but the man in the street
sees little of the profits

Well, I',m sure that is true. But there wouldn't be much left of Llanberis
these days if it wasn't for tourism!

And we'd be without the world's finest caff.

I couldn't find it last time I was there : -^

Is that Peter's Pommes Frites and Peas Place ?
--
Bill Grey
http://www.billboy.co.uk

On 15/5/05 11:56, in article [email hidden],

Fran said:

And we'd be without the world's finest caff.

More like expanding business empire :-)

--
Andy Howell
Birmingham, UK

To mail simply put back the dots ...

In message <[email hidden]>

W. D. Grey said:

In article <[email hidden]>, Mike
Clark <[email hidden]> writes

Quoted message said:

You mentioned a current train fare of £40 per passenger. Let's assume
the profit margin were as a guess 50% (which I bet is wildly
optimistic). Just on those two figures alone you thus need a million
passenger journeys to pay off the initial capital costs. But if you then
figured in things like interest rates and the need to cover other
maintainence costs I'm sure it would all look much much worse.

Not forgetting the income from the cafe !

So do you estimate that the income from the cafe is likely to be more
than a small percentage of £20 per head? How many cafe's do you know
that can turn over a profit of £10 million pounds in a few years? That's
got to be net profit not gross turnover.

--
o/ \\ // |\ ,_ o Mike Clark
<\__,\\ // __o | \ / /\, "A mountain climbing, cycling, skiing,
"> || _`\<,_ |__\ \> | immunology lecturer, antibody engineer and
` || (_)/ (_) | \corn computer user"

In message <[email hidden]>

W. D. Grey said:

In article <[email hidden]>, Rooney
<[email hidden]> writes

Quoted message said:

I guess the Welsh/UK authorities will bear in mind that it's a big
tourist attraction, so it's a benefit to the local economy. I wouldn't
oppose a public subsidy to refurbish the railway and stations.

As for being a benefit to the local economy, what is generally forgotten
by the operators is that the majority of the tourists are working folk
or retired people NOT millionaires that can afford the ridiculous prices
they charge for everything. This goes for most retailers in the
Snowdonia area.

Generally people in business (at least the successful ones) are quite
aware of how much money the people they are marketing to can afford. I
take your point about retired people, but "working folk" includes a very
large body of people that have a much higher disposable income, and a
much higher standard of living than previous generations. How many
families are you aware of that can support several vehicles, lots of
luxury electrical goods, including Hi Fi, TV, video, cable or satellite,
a mobile telephone for each member of the family, and who take regular
vacations abroad?

Quoted message said:

They're not happy with a decent profit, they just want to rip -off
holiday makers.

The tourist industry is in general a seasonal market. Thus those who
work in it are unlikely to be making the same level of income throughout
the year. Thus you have to earn enough money in a short period of time
to sustain yourself over the whole year.

--
o/ \\ // |\ ,_ o Mike Clark
<\__,\\ // __o | \ / /\, "A mountain climbing, cycling, skiing,
"> || _`\<,_ |__\ \> | immunology lecturer, antibody engineer and
` || (_)/ (_) | \corn computer user"

Mike Clark said:

In message <[email hidden]>

Rooney said:

On Fri, 13 May 2005 17:46:48 +0100, "W. D. Grey"
<[email hidden]> wrote:

[snip]

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

They're not happy with a decent profit, they just want to rip -off
holiday makers.

To be honest, I wouldn't shop there unless I had to. I find the area
far poorer in terms of choice, prices, customer service etc. than,
say, the Lake District. But I do think they need to put more money
into tourism - it is a better earner for the locals than sheep
farming!

As the foot and mouth crisis demostrated.

Wales - well, Snowdonia and that general region at least - hasn't
really cottoned on yet to the full potential of tourism. It's still
quite common to find pubs closed during the day and early evening, or
not selling food, or not selling coffee, or not letting kids in. It's
just as easy for me to reach as the Lake District, but I prefer the
Lakes not just for the more varied scenery and better walking
potential, but also for the towns and villages, the shops and bars,
the availability of all kinds of accommodation, the rather better
customer service and welcome, etc. And the fact that Blaenau
Ffestiniog isn't there!
--
R
o
o
n
e
y

"I always knew the entire Green party were nutters" - Ken Livingstone

[email hidden] said...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Well, I',m sure that is true. But there wouldn't be much left of Llanberis
these days if it wasn't for tourism!

And we'd be without the world's finest caff.

I couldn't find it last time I was there : -^

I'm not at all sure how you could miss it - last time I was
there it was bright blue. And I mean *bright* blue. And
orange.
http://tinyurl.com/85qp8
--
/
Fran O(<|={
\

On 16/5/05 20:53, in article [email hidden],

Fran said:

It brightens the place up, which it badly needs on a drab,

It's about the only splash of colour in Llanberis!

--
Andy Howell
Birmingham, UK

To mail simply put back the dots ...

Geoff Berrow said:

Thought I'd better write this as pretty soon it'll be very old news.

<snippy>

Thanks for an exciting TR! I'm sorry to hear it wasn't possible to
make the top that day, but delighted to learn that your leader was
brave enough to make the difficult decision to turn round. Now you can
start planning the next attempt, and you have the memory of an
exciting day out in the hills :-)

Best wishes,
--
,,
(**)PeeWiglet~~
/ \ / \ pee AT [guessthisbit].co.uk

I noticed that Message-ID: <[email hidden]>
from Peewiglet contained the following:

Quoted message said:

Thanks for an exciting TR! I'm sorry to hear it wasn't possible to
make the top that day, but delighted to learn that your leader was
brave enough to make the difficult decision to turn round. Now you can
start planning the next attempt, and you have the memory of an
exciting day out in the hills :-)

Thanks for that. And congratulations on your trip.
--
Geoff Berrow (put thecat out to email)
It's only Usenet, no one dies.
My opinions, not the committee's, mine.
Simple RFDs http://www.ckdog.co.uk/rfdmaker/

On Sat, 21 May 2005 16:07:04 +0100, Geoff Berrow
<[email hidden]> wrote:

[...]

Quoted message said:

Thanks for that. And congratulations on your trip.

Many thanks!

Best wishes,
--
,,
(**)PeeWiglet~~
/ \ / \ pee AT [guessthisbit].co.uk

In article <[email hidden]>, Peewiglet
<[email hidden]> writes

Quoted message said:

On Sat, 21 May 2005 16:07:04 +0100, Geoff Berrow
<[email hidden]> wrote:

[...]

Quoted message said:

Thanks for that. And congratulations on your trip.

Many thanks!

Best wishes,

Hi Peewiglet,,

Do you have a TR on your web-site yet and please what is the URL.

Well done indeed!
--
Bill Grey
http://www.billboy.co.uk

On Sun, 22 May 2005 19:09:03 +0100, "W. D. Grey"
<[email hidden]> wrote:

Hi Bill,

Quoted message said:

Do you have a TR on your web-site yet and please what is the URL.

I've not finished it yet - only got home late Friday afternoon - but
I'll certainly post the URL as soon as it's finished.

Quoted message said:

Well done indeed!

Thank you very much :-))

Best wishes,
--
,,
(**)PeeWiglet~~
/ \ / \ pee AT [guessthisbit].co.uk