TR--Peak District

John Laird wrote on Sun, 11 Apr 2004 00:54:36 +0100....

Quoted message said:

You will probably encounter ten roundabouts on your
journey to Clapham. For the most part, the lead-in road
brings you in at such an angle that it would be perverse
to attempt to go round clockwise.

Erm... does this make me a pervert? I always make a point of
going round them clockwise.

Anti-clockwise (or counter-clockwise if you are American)
would be far more perverse, not to mention dangerous.

--
Tim Jackson [email hidden] (Change
'.invalid' to '.co.uk' to reply direct) Absurd patents:
visit patent.freeserve.co.ukpatent.freeserve.co.ukOpen ↗

Tim Jackson wrote on Sun, 11 Apr 2004 02:05:36 +0100....

[Roundabouts]

Quoted message said:

Anti-clockwise (or counter-clockwise if you are American)
would be far more perverse, not to mention dangerous.

Unless you come from Swindon, of course.
swindonweb.comlifemagi0.htmOpen ↗

--
Tim Jackson [email hidden] (Change
'.invalid' to '.co.uk' to reply direct) Absurd patents:
visit patent.freeserve.co.ukpatent.freeserve.co.ukOpen ↗

John Laird said:

Xmurray said:

Thanks to all for the information. I think I need to have
a car even at the risk of great peril. But it will be hard
to overcome 20 years of driving on the right, especially
the roundabouts as was mentioned. I like the "post-it with
a big arrow" trick on the steering wheel and will
definitely use it. I'm flying into Manchester arriving 6AM
Sunday so will definitely have jet lag but I'm hoping
Manchester is simpler than Heathrow and that things will
be quiet on a Sunday morning. ?? Heading form there
straight to Clapham in the Dales. And yes, we did reserve
an automatic.

Manchester Airport should indeed be quiet on a Sunday
morning at 6am. That's not to say it will be speedy and
efficient getting your car sorted, though. This is Britain,
after all ;-)

You will also have the M56 to M60 to negotiate, just make
sure you read the signs right and get in the correct lane.
Mind you it is less serious now that the M60 is open all the
way round, since you'd be wanting the M66 which exits at the
northern side it wouldn't make much difference which way you
went round apart from having to negotiate the heart of
Junction 18 (traffic light controlled roundabout) rather
than a simple slip road (ramp) if you went clockwise.

Quoted message said:

You will probably encounter ten roundabouts on your journey
to Clapham. For the most part, the lead-in road brings you
in at such an angle that it would be perverse to attempt to
go round clockwise.

OOOOPS!! It's clockwise for driving on the left (like
the UK) anti-clockwise fro driving on the right
(Europe USA etc).

Quoted message said:

It may seem strange driving on the left, but at least we
don't have crazy 6-way light-controlled junctions at which
you can completely head off in the wrong direction.

Not driven in London for a while then?

Quoted message said:

The nearest major country that also drives on the left is
probably 10000 miles distant,

Ireland, which is next door, is a minor country and doesn't
count. :-)

Quoted message said:

so the millions of us who leave these shores every year and
drive abroad have to adapt pretty quickly.

And a fair few of us manage it in cars with the steering
wheel on the wrong side, RHD car in LHD continental Europe.

Quoted message said:

It *is* possible.

Enjoy your visit. May is often a very nice time of
the year.

Indeed it is, especially in Scotland and other boggy
moorland areas where the wee beasties [1] are still
underground and thus aren't a problem.

[1] One of several species of tiny biting insect. Culicoides
impunctatus - highland midge Culicoides halophilus -
costal midge Culicoides nubeculosis - farm midge
Culicoides obsoletus - garden midge
--
Phil Cook looking north over the park to the
"Westminster Gasworks"

In a recent message
<[email hidden]>, John Laird <nospam@laird-
towers.org.uk> wrote.

[...]

Quoted message said:

And there is positively no turning on red lights, anywhere.

[...]

Yes, most important! The rule in England is very clear,
a red light always means 'stop'. There are no
exceptions to this.

Regards, Nick.

--
Nick Hopton and Anne Hopton Caversham, Reading, England
<[email hidden]

"Tim Jackson" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

John Laird wrote on Sun, 11 Apr 2004 00:54:36 +0100....

Quoted message said:

You will probably encounter ten roundabouts on your
journey to Clapham.

For

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

the most part, the lead-in road brings you in at such an
angle that it

would

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

be perverse to attempt to go round clockwise.

Erm... does this make me a pervert? I always make a point
of going round them clockwise.

Thanks for clearing that up, I was starting to get really
confused! Who technically has the right of way, vehicles
already in the roundabout or vehicles entering the
roundabout?

The hat wearing driver is also given a wide berth here in
the states for the same reasons!

Quoted message said:

Anti-clockwise (or counter-clockwise if you are American)
would be far more perverse, not to mention dangerous.

--
Tim Jackson [email hidden] (Change
'.invalid' to '.co.uk' to reply direct) Absurd patents:
visit patent.freeserve.co.ukpatent.freeserve.co.ukOpen ↗

"John Laird" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Xmurray said:

Thanks to all for the information. I think I need to have
a car even at

the

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

risk of great peril. But it will be hard to overcome 20
years of driving

on

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

the right, especially the roundabouts as was mentioned. I
like the

"post-it

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

with a big arrow" trick on the steering wheel and will
definitely use it. I'm flying into Manchester arriving
6AM Sunday so will definitely have

jet

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

lag but I'm hoping Manchester is simpler than Heathrow
and that things

will

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

be quiet on a Sunday morning. ?? Heading form there
straight to Clapham

in

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

the Dales. And yes, we did reserve an automatic.

Manchester Airport should indeed be quiet on a Sunday
morning at 6am. That's not to say it will be speedy and
efficient getting your car sorted, though. This is
Britain, after all ;-)

You will probably encounter ten roundabouts on your
journey to Clapham.

For

Quoted message said:

the most part, the lead-in road brings you in at such an
angle that it

would

Quoted message said:

be perverse to attempt to go round clockwise. You could
always wear a

hat -

Quoted message said:

here this signifies the driver is 50+, probably senile,
and rarely exceeds 30mph anywhere. Everyone else gets out
of their way.

One thing to watch - our motorway (freeway) junctions are
numbered consecutively, not in mile-posts. And there is
positively no turning on

red

Quoted message said:

lights, anywhere. We don't have 4-way stops. Speed
limits unless

otherwise

Quoted message said:

marked are 30 in built-up areas (street lights are a good
clue), 60 elsewhere and 70 on any dual- carriageway,
including motorways. You can test your speedometer by
driving very quickly past thoughtfully-provided
calibration devices which are small boxes on high posts,
often painted yellow, at the side of the road. On your
return home, the hire company

will

Quoted message said:

send you a nice photo of your car showing its exact speed.
The photos

cost

Quoted message said:

60gbp. (I jest - these are speed cameras.)

Thanks for the warning! I speed all the time here in the
states and they are just starting to use the cameras more
and more. I'm sure somone will post there locations on a
website so we can enter them into our GPS's. Since I'll be
on vacation and driving on the left I think I'll just take
it easy and avoid testing out my speedometer!

Quoted message said:

It may seem strange driving on the left, but at least we
don't have crazy 6-way light-controlled junctions at which
you can completely head off in

the

Quoted message said:

wrong direction. The nearest major country that also
drives on the left

is

Quoted message said:

probably 10000 miles distant, so the millions of us who
leave these shores every year and drive abroad have to
adapt pretty quickly. It *is*

possible.

Quoted message said:

Enjoy your visit. May is often a very nice time of
the year.

--
Seen it all, done it all, can't remember most of it.

Mail john rather than nospam...

Xmurray said:

"Tim Jackson" <[email hidden]> wrote
in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

John Laird wrote on Sun, 11 Apr 2004 00:54:36 +0100....

Quoted message said:

You will probably encounter ten roundabouts on your
journey to Clapham.

For

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

the most part, the lead-in road brings you in at such
an angle that it

would

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

be perverse to attempt to go round clockwise.

Erm... does this make me a pervert? I always make a point
of going round them clockwise.

Thanks for clearing that up, I was starting to get really
confused! Who technically has the right of way, vehicles
already in the roundabout or vehicles entering the
roundabout?

Those on the roundabout have right of way. There is a broken
white line for those entering so they must give way.

highwaycode.gov.ukhighwaycode.gov.ukOpen ↗ should clear this up.

Quoted message said:

The hat wearing driver is also given a wide berth here in
the states for the same reasons!

What if it is a baseball cap? That is my prefered headgear
for driving, mainly because the gap in the sun-visor is
always where the sun is :-(
--
Phil Cook looking north over the park to the
"Westminster Gasworks"

Xmurray said:

"John Laird" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

60gbp. (I jest - these are speed cameras.)

Thanks for the warning! I speed all the time here in the
states and they are just starting to use the cameras more
and more. I'm sure somone will post there locations on a
website so we can enter them into our GPS's. Since I'll be
on vacation and driving on the left I think I'll just take
it easy and avoid testing out my speedometer!

A good idea. I spent a few days just getting used to the
whole ethos of driving in Australia. I was on vacation and
didn't need to be anywhere by a certain time. I just drove
at the limit, if it was safe to do so, often I would find
myself a safe distance behind a truck making exactly the
same speed as me. Trucks in the UK tend to have two speeds
on the motorway (freeway) something like 56mph (90kph) and
70mph depending as much on the fuel policy of the operator
as the driver's inclination. The drivers won't risk going
above 70 because they might lose their licence and with it
their job. The big operators all have GPS tracking equipment
fitted so they can see where their drivers are. On ordinary
roads there are differential speed limits for cars and
trucks, with the latter limited to 45 on non-trunk roads
where cars can do 60.
--
Phil Cook looking north over the park to the
"Westminster Gasworks"

john goldfine <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

"Paul Saunders" <[email hidden]> wrote in
message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Statistically May is one of the sunniest and driest
months of the year. Best time to plan a holiday if you
want fine weather IMO. > > I'm

wondering if we need to

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

buy some kind of fancy high-tech Gore-Tex type jackets
or if we can just wear sweatshirts and carry the simple
thin nylon waterproof pullovers that collapse into
their own pouch.

I'd recommend lightweight waterproofs. I can't guarantee
that you won't have serious rain, but the odds for good
that any rain will be relatively light.

I agree with Paul: the weather could be glorious--
bluebells, wild garlic, sunny and sweet. It could also be
buckets--I walked through a bunch of them last May between
Kirkby Lonsdale and Dent, walking up Barbondale. So, I'd
want to depend on something more hitech than sweats and a
nylon shell.

I think Paul is speaking as one who likes rain and is used
to our weather. After 6 years living in California my
daughter will only come to the UK in July!
--
Gordon

Gordon said:

Quoted message said:

"Paul Saunders" <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Statistically May is one of the sunniest and driest
months of the year.

Quoted message said:

I think Paul is speaking as one who likes rain and is used
to our weather. After 6 years living in California my
daughter will only come to the UK in July!

No, I'm speaking statistically. Take a look at the weather
averages in Wales over the last 30 years; met-met-Open ↗
office.gov.uk/climate/uk/averages/19712000/areal/wales.ht ml

Note that July is the driest month of the year with only
78.3mm of rainfall, narrowly beating May with just 80.6mm of
rainfall. However, May is the clear winner for sunshine with
186.8 hours compared to July's
181.8 hours in 2nd place.

Oddly enough, June ranks 4th in both sunshine and rainfall.

But you may be keen to point out that you live in Northern
England, not Wales, so take a look at this page instead; met-met-Open ↗
office.gov.uk/climate/uk/averages/19712000/areal/england_
n.html

It turns out that in your part of the country May is both
the driest and sunniest month of the year, with 60.2mm and
181.7 hours respectively, beating July which ranks 3rd for
rainfall with 64.3mm and 2nd for sunshine with 176.6 hours.

Interestingly, you only get 75% of the rain we get in Wales
during May, while we get slightly more sunshine.

I don't know where you got the idea that I think May is dry
and sunny because I like rain. I think May is dry and sunny
because it is! Best month of the year for camping IMO.
Typically spring (Mar 21-Jun 20) is sunnier and drier than
summer, although many people seem to be unaware of this fact
(summer is hotter than spring, but not sunnier or drier)

In your part of the country April is drier than July and
August is wetter than March!

I think it's about time you told your daughter that she
should visit in May instead of July. :-)

Paul
--
wilderness-wales.co.ukwilderness-wales.co.ukOpen ↗
wildwales.fsnet.co.ukwildwales.fsnet.co.ukOpen ↗
photosig.comuserphotosOpen ↗

In message
<[email hidden]>, Phil Cook
<[email hidden]> writes

Quoted message said:

What if it is a baseball cap? That is my prefered headgear
for driving, mainly because the gap in the sun-visor is
always where the sun is :-(

I thought the generations-old maxim still applies. "If you
want to look a prat, wear a silly hat".

I always wondered what the reason was that anyone over the
age of 18 would ever wear a baseball cap!

Then again, I don't understand why so many males in their
20s and 30s deliberately make themselves look 50 years old
by having such a short haircut it makes them look like near-
geriatric slapheads.

--
Chris Morriss

I just thought I should add a link to the UK stats as a whole;
met-office.gov.ukuk.htmlOpen ↗

May is the sunniest and driest month. December is the
gloomiest and wettest month. July is the hottest month,
February is the coldest.

Sunshine (hrs)
===========
183.5 - May
184.4 - July
185.3 - June
186.1 - August
187.7 - April
188.1 - September

Least Rainfall (mm)
===============
189.1 - May
190.6 - April & July
191.6 - June
192.6 - August
193.7 - February
194.8 - March

Paul
--
wilderness-wales.co.ukwilderness-wales.co.ukOpen ↗
wildwales.fsnet.co.ukwildwales.fsnet.co.ukOpen ↗
photosig.comuserphotosOpen ↗

Tim Jackson said:

John Laird wrote on Sun, 11 Apr 2004 00:54:36 +0100....

Quoted message said:

You will probably encounter ten roundabouts on your
journey to Clapham. For the most part, the lead-in road
brings you in at such an angle that it would be perverse
to attempt to go round clockwise.

Erm... does this make me a pervert? I always make a point
of going round them clockwise.

O--o-o-o-o-o-o-o-h-h-h-h-h-h-h-h-h....

Bollocks !

--
Excommunicated: On vacation without a computer.

Mail john rather than nospam...

Paul Saunders <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

Gordon said:

Quoted message said:

"Paul Saunders" <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> Statistically May is one of the sunniest and driest
> months of the year.

Quoted message said:

I think Paul is speaking as one who likes rain and is
used to our weather. After 6 years living in California
my daughter will only come to the UK in July!

Note that July is the driest month of the year

[....]

Quoted message said:

I don't know where you got the idea that I think May is dry
and sunny because I like rain.

I just pointed out that someone who lives in CA has a
different perspective than you or I!

Quoted message said:

I think it's about time you told your daughter that she
should visit in May instead of July. :-)

The main reason is the temperature Paul, she can't stand our
cold climate any more. :-)
--
Gordon

Chris Morriss <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

In message
<[email hidden]>, Phil Cook
<[email hidden]> writes

Quoted message said:

What if it is a baseball cap? That is my prefered headgear
for driving, mainly because the gap in the sun-visor is
always where the sun is :-(

I thought the generations-old maxim still applies. "If you
want to look a prat, wear a silly hat".

I always wondered what the reason was that anyone over the
age of 18 would ever wear a baseball cap!

Then again, I don't understand why so many males in their
20s and 30s deliberately make themselves look 50 years old
by having such a short haircut it makes them look like near-
geriatric slapheads.

You sound to be very self-conscious about appearance. ;-)

I meet quite a few people who are 'funny' about my wearing a
baseball cap, but they are very practical, apart from the
sun shade effect they also keep rain and hail off my specs
and my face.
--
Gordon

Chris Morriss said:

Then again, I don't understand why so many males in their
20s and 30s deliberately make themselves look 50 years old
by having such a short haircut it makes them look like near-
geriatric slapheads.

It doesn't do that at all. It tends to make them look
younger.

--

Paul

My Lake District walking site (updated 29th September 2003):

paulrooney.netfirms.compaulrooney.netfirms.comOpen ↗

Gordon said:

I just pointed out that someone who lives in CA has a
different perspective than you or I!

But you specifically mentioned rain.

Quoted message said:

The main reason is the temperature Paul, she can't stand
our cold climate any more. :-)

Fair enough, July is the hottest month. But sunshine and
heat are not the same thing.

In spite of July being marginally drier than May in your bit
of Britain, May is the driest and sunniest in both Wales and
the UK as a whole, so I still think that May is the best
time of year for outdoor activities in general (not
photography though). Better for less insects, better for
less tourists and better for slightly cooler temperatures,
although May can sometimes be bloody hot. We've had
heatwaves in April before now.

Paul
--
wilderness-wales.co.ukwilderness-wales.co.ukOpen ↗
wildwales.fsnet.co.ukwildwales.fsnet.co.ukOpen ↗
photosig.comuserphotosOpen ↗

In article
<[email hidden]>, Phil Cook
<[email hidden]> writes

Quoted message said:

You will also have the M56 to M60 to negotiate, just make
sure you read the signs right and get in the correct lane.

Indeed, almost as soon as you join the M56 you need to be
sure which way you want to go on the M60 and ensure you are
in the correct lane - it is not the most intuitive of
junctions.

Quoted message said:

Mind you it is less serious now that the M60 is open all
the way round, since you'd be wanting the M66 which exits
at the northern side it wouldn't make much difference which
way you went round apart from having to negotiate the heart
of Junction 18 (traffic light controlled roundabout) rather
than a simple slip road (ramp) if you went clockwise.

Just for your info when going anti-clockwise on the M60 the
exit to the M66 is straight on, staying on the main
carriageway, underneath the junction - you have to take the
slip road up towards the J18 roundabout to stay on the M60!
This is because the section of the M60 between 18 & 19 used
to be part of the M66.

Having said that it is 5km shorter to go clockwise so, if
Steve is happy with the navigation (both onto and off the
M60) I would recommend that way. If he were a bit unsure
then taking the East / anti-clockwise route is probably
easier as long as he remembers to leave the M56 by the first
exit after joining it - signed as staying on the M56 but
leaving the main carriageway!

--

dscs.demon.co.ukdscs.demon.co.ukOpen ↗

Quoted message said:

In article
<[email hidden]>, Phil Cook
<[email hidden]> writes

Quoted message said:

You will also have the M56 to M60 to negotiate, just make
sure you read the signs right and get in the correct lane.

Indeed, almost as soon as you join the M56 you need to be
sure which way you want to go on the M60 and ensure you are
in the correct lane - it is not the most intuitive of
junctions.

Indeed it is not. To get to the clockwise M60 you have to
leave the M56 by *not* taking any off ramps and then, after
a short stretch of dual carriageway A road with an off ramp
to a B road under it, join the clockwise M60 which IIRC is
signed as M60 West and North.

multimap.combrowse.cgiOpen ↗
dth=700&height=600&scale=25000

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Mind you it is less serious now that the M60 is open all
the way round, since you'd be wanting the M66 which exits
at the northern side it wouldn't make much difference
which way you went round apart from having to negotiate
the heart of Junction 18 (traffic light controlled
roundabout) rather than a simple slip road (ramp) if you
went clockwise.

Just for your info when going anti-clockwise on the M60 the
exit to the M66 is straight on, staying on the main
carriageway, underneath the junction - you have to take the
slip road up towards the J18 roundabout to stay on the M60!
This is because the section of the M60 between 18 & 19 used
to be part of the M66.

Gargh! I'd forgotten that the M60 turns straight into the
M66 underneath the roundabout. Have a look at this to help
explain it. multimap.combrowse.cgiOpen ↗
2.258&scale=25000

My brother lives in Blackley and to get to his house when
coming from the east I have to go past the junction (no
ramps from or to the east) and turn round at junction 19

Quoted message said:

Having said that it is 5km shorter to go clockwise so, if
Steve is happy with the navigation (both onto and off the
M60) I would recommend that way. If he were a bit unsure
then taking the East / anti-clockwise route is probably
easier as long as he remembers to leave the M56 by the
first exit after joining it - signed as staying on the M56
but leaving the main carriageway!

My brother used to live in Northenden so I learned that
maze of slips fairly quickly. But it still confuses me
with all those M60 signs and the fact you leave the M56 to
stay on it.
--
Phil Cook looking north over the park to the
"Westminster Gasworks"

In message <[email hidden]>,
Paul Rooney <[email hidden]> writes

Quoted message said:

Chris Morriss said:

Then again, I don't understand why so many males in their
20s and 30s deliberately make themselves look 50 years old
by having such a short haircut it makes them look like near-
geriatric slapheads.

It doesn't do that at all. It tends to make them look
younger.

Ah yes of course. The classic 'Emperor's New Clothes'
self-delusion!
--
Chris Morriss