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TR--Peak District

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General fitness, health and nutrition
Published
6 April 2004
Last activity
16 April 2004
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John Goldfine
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  1. Car to Bangor. Taught all morning. Zipped over to airport.
    Plane to Boston. Wait. Wait. Plane to Heathrow. Train to
    Paddington. Underground to Kingscross. Train to Edale.
    Foot to B & B.

    And if you can believe it, the dear who ran the B& B
    apologized for not meeting me at the station, as if I could
    have tolerated even another second of sitting. I'd spent a
    lot of time the past few years imagining the valley between
    Kinder Scout and Mam Tor, so even though I'd missed a
    night's sleep, up to Hollins Cross I went. The day was gray,
    cold, windy, but I was not disappointed as I walked toward
    Mam Tor. All the people would usually be a turnoff, but I
    reminded myself there were fewer on the whole hill than had
    been clustered around the baggage carousel at the airport.

    By the way, what was a through-walker who spends nights at
    accommodation doing with checked baggage, you may ask.
    Foolishly, I had strapped my walking stick to my pack,
    exactly as I had ten weeks earlier when I was on my way to
    Cornwall. But this time security in Boston jumped on it.
    Apparently the 'sharp' point on the end triggered the
    nanny response. I had to check the damn thing, lest I get
    up to any hijinx in the aircraft. Anohter victory for
    homeland security. On my way back, I took the basket off
    the stick (it has a cane handle) and added a rubber tip.
    Since I had a few blisters I didn't have to fake a tender
    walk--and security opened all doors to me! Jumped me to
    the head of the check-in line! Rushed my cane over to me
    after I'd stepped through the metal screener. Called me
    sir without the usual insolence! No checked baggage for
    Mr. Gimpy, unh-unh.

    Back to Mam Tor. One of the school girls said to her claque
    as we approached the summit: "Girls, stop! Savor it!" Which
    got a big laugh all around. I assume some teacher was being
    mocked, but I thought the remark was very apposite. What
    does one take away from a continuous stream of stimulation?
    What is savored and remembered, what forgotten? I think
    people get exhausted in museums because of the difficulty of
    answering this. Since I'm not a photographer, I just wander
    along almost positive that stopping to savor something is
    not the key to making it part of my memory. But I will
    remember the girl's comment, and I enjoyed my walk very
    much. I went down to Edale, had a pint and supper, walked
    back to my B & B, watched a little of 'Weakest Link' and
    went to sleep.

    Sunday was a not a travel day. I'd planned to stay a second
    night in Edale. Another cold gray day, but not misty, and so
    up the Pennine Trail, up Jacob's Ladder, and onto Kinder
    Scout. After all the warnings I'd read about KS, aftrer
    checking the website oif the local rescue service with its
    litany of broken legs, ankles, and hypothermia, I was
    terrified. I walked carefully, trying to avoid becoming, no
    the one hand, one of those peat-men dug up three thousand
    years later, or on the other, flattened body. My mood of
    terror really didn't lift until I reached the head of
    Grindsbrook Clough where I found myself surrounded by crowds
    of eight year old girls in pink plastic Wellies, old-timers
    jumping from rock to rock, young lovers drinking tea in
    hollows out of the wind, etc. The place was crawling--more
    people than Saturday on Mam Tor! I decided KS would have to
    wait until another time to claim me as victim, and I
    proceeded to Riinging Roger and down to Edale, where I tried
    the other pub and then back to the B & B.

    Next day, I climbed over Mam Tor, down to Castleton, up Cave
    Dale (lovely) and was off on my trip. My biggest regret of
    the day was not taking seriously the warning at the head of
    Monks' Dale that the walking was rocky and difficult. Oh, I
    was quick to sneer--difficult for a granny in a walker or a
    family with a stroller! But for me! I was jumbled pretty
    damn quick. What a pain--jumbled, incredibly slippery
    limestone cobble. The kind of place you hope for mud as a
    relief. Down Monsal Dale a bit and then into Taddington,
    where my request for directions to the Waterloo Hotel was
    met with incomprehension and head shakes, until finally the
    woman I was talking to said, "Oh, do you mean the WATERLOO
    Hotel?" Uh, isn't that what I said? Apparently, my flat
    American accent had finally defeated the Duke.

    Sometime I'll write about passive-aggressiveness in hotel
    keepers, the kind of attitude that keeps them eating their
    lunch while refusing to show the weary traveller his room.
    ("Haven't turned the heat on yet."😉 The kind that hears a
    'half-pint of X and and a half-pint of Y' as a request for
    a pint of half & half. Some people shouldn't be in the
    people business.

    Off the next morning and got lost in the mist in a few
    minutes, my usual navigation skills coming to the front.
    Sorted myself out and off to Chelmorton, Chrome Hill,
    Crowdecote, and eventually my B & B, just outside
    Hartington. I've been reading a biography of the fifth (?)
    Duchess of Devonshire, Georgianna, and understood why the
    pub in Hartington was the 'Duke of Devonshire.' Nice to be
    able to interpret one or two of the surrounding surfaces.
    Alas, closed, so I made do with the Cotton Hotel and a nice
    Staffordshire oatcake stuffed with good things.

    Next day was fair and fast walking down Wolfscote Dale,
    Dovedale, to Ilam, and then up the Manifold Way to Wetton,
    where the damn pub was closed for the day, so more walking
    and over to Hopedale for a pint and a meal. Lovely walking,
    lovely weather.

    Rain next morning and blisters which dogged me all day as I
    returned to the Dove, then up Biggin Dale, the Tissington
    Trail, Monyash, down Lathkill Dale, and my overnight
    accommodation. Two delightful shih-tzus in the pub, one of
    whom licked and licked my hand, like my dear half-shihtsy,
    Chloe, and the other who gently tugged on my sleeve and
    cuffs, again just like Miss Chloe. I was missing my dogs
    quite a bit by this point. My blisters were quite nasty by
    this point. Foolishly I'd put heel cups in my boots to
    lessen the chance of plantar fasciitis, but the reduced
    volume, combined with the warm weather, combined with me
    stupidly forgetting to leave the tops of my gaiters open and
    so generating a lot of moisture, had chewed my tootsies
    pretty thoroughly.

    Instead of walking to Matlock next day, I walked into
    Bakewell, caught a bus to Derby, caught a train to London,
    went to a hotel, then off to Stanfords for maps and books, a
    Chinese noodle place for noodles, the Odeon for a movie, and
    the trip was just about over, wasn't it?

  2. john goldfine wrote:

    A very strange TR, but very interesting nonetheless.

    Quoted message said:

    Car to Bangor. Taught all morning. Zipped over to airport.
    Plane to Boston. Wait. Wait. Plane to Heathrow. Train to
    Paddington. Underground to Kingscross. Train to Edale.
    Foot to B & B.

    This baffled me at first. That's the craziest route to the
    Peak District I'd ever heard of. Why on earth would you
    drive to North Wales and catch a plane to America first? And
    since when do RAF Valley do commercial flights?

    Later I twigged. Bangor, Maine.

    Quoted message said:

    I'd spent a lot of time the past few years imagining the
    valley between Kinder Scout and Mam Tor,

    How did it match your expectations?

    Quoted message said:

    What does one take away from a continuous stream of
    stimulation? What is savored and remembered, what
    forgotten?

    Interesting question. As a general rule it's the photos that
    I savor and remember.

    Quoted message said:

    Since I'm not a photographer, I just wander along almost
    positive that stopping to savor something is not the key
    to making it part of my memory.

    Perhaps not. Difficult to tell for me. Being a photographer
    I specifically choose which bits I want to savour by
    photographing them, and usually those are the bits that I
    end up remembering. But do I remember them because they were
    the best bits or do I remember them because I photographed
    them. In other words, am I remembering the actual event, or
    am I just remembering the photographs I took?

    Over time the memory fades, but the photos remain. In some
    cases, the photos are the only I things I remember, probably
    because I've looked at them over and over, thus reinforcing
    the memory. Photos do trigger memories of the actual events
    of course, but in time the photos trigger specific memories
    that I associate with those photos, and probably not the
    trip as a whole.

    The question is what would I remember if I didn't take any
    photographs? There have been a small number of walks and
    trips I've done without any photography and I do have
    memories from those, but far fewer and much more vague.
    They form a kind of "dark ages" in the photographic record
    of my outdoor activities. The memories are almost black and
    white, sometimes dreamlike, but sometimes elevated to
    special technicolor status. Some of those memories are
    probably better than the actual event, photographs may have
    looked worse.

    Yet occasionally there are times when I have a very strong
    memory of something which I didn't photograph, and I kick
    myself that I didn't point a camera at it. Yet some of those
    memories wouldn't have translated well to photographs even
    if I had taken them.

    And the other side of the coin is that I take so many
    photographs that I often find myself doing it robotically. I
    sometimes spend so long looking through the viewfinder
    capturing the memory that I forget to put the camera down
    for a moment and really look at what I'm photographing.
    Sometimes I walk away from a scene and realise that I didn't
    really look at it, I didn't savour it.

    Sometimes the first time I really see a scene is when I look
    at the photo later...

    But sometimes I do put the camera down and just savour it. I
    guess that's what I like most about wild camping, I can sit
    by the tent and stare at a scene for hours.

    Quoted message said:

    After all the warnings I'd read about KS, aftrer checking
    the website oif the local rescue service with its litany
    of broken legs, ankles, and hypothermia, I was terrified.

    Oh yes, Kinder is a terrible spot for damaging ankles... ;-)

    Quoted message said:

    "Oh, do you mean the WATERLOO Hotel?" Uh, isn't that what
    I said? Apparently, my flat American accent had finally
    defeated the Duke.

    This is when I twigged that you meant Bangor, Maine.

    Quoted message said:

    Sometime I'll write about passive-aggressiveness in hotel
    keepers, the kind of attitude that keeps them eating their
    lunch while refusing to show the weary traveller his room.
    ("Haven't turned the heat on yet."😉 The kind that hears a
    'half-pint of X and and a half-pint of Y' as a request for
    a pint of half & half. Some people shouldn't be in the
    people business.

    Basil Fawlty?

    Quoted message said:

    Instead of walking to Matlock next day, I walked into
    Bakewell, caught a bus to Derby, caught a train to London,
    went to a hotel, then off to Stanfords for maps and books,
    a Chinese noodle place for noodles, the Odeon for a movie,
    and the trip was just about over, wasn't it?

    Nice TR.

    Paul
    --
    wilderness-wales.co.ukwilderness-wales.co.uk
    wildwales.fsnet.co.ukwildwales.fsnet.co.uk
    photosig.comuserphotos

  3. john goldfine said:

    Car to Bangor. Taught all morning. Zipped over to airport.
    Plane to Boston. Wait. Wait. Plane to Heathrow. Train to
    Paddington. Underground to Kingscross. Train to Edale.
    Foot to B & B.

    If I didn't know there was a Bangor, MA then I would have
    been seriously confused by this, as that's the oddest route
    and airport from North Wales I can think of!

  4. In a recent message <[email hidden]>,
    john goldfine <[email hidden]> wrote.

    Quoted message said:

    Car to Bangor. Taught all morning. Zipped over to airport.
    Plane to Boston. Wait. Wait. Plane to Heathrow. Train to
    Paddington. Underground to Kingscross. Train to Edale. Foot
    to B & B.

    The penny just dropped... It's *that* Bangor and *that*
    Boston <g>. Now it all makes sense.

    [...]

    Quoted message said:

    Sometime I'll write about passive-aggressiveness in hotel
    keepers, the kind of attitude that keeps them eating their
    lunch while refusing to show the weary traveller his room.
    ("Haven't turned the heat on yet."😉 The kind that hears a
    'half-pint of X and and a half-pint of Y' as a request for
    a pint of half & half. Some people shouldn't be in the
    people business.

    I'm sure the sort of attitudes you mention are doing great
    damage to tourist industry in England. It's intolerable that
    a customer should be treated as the enemy. There's an age-
    old game these people play called 'letting them know where
    they stand'. It's crummy, tenth-rate behaviour and it's all
    too common here. I've never, ever, experienced anything like
    this on your side of the water.

    [...]

    Quoted message said:

    Instead of walking to Matlock next day, I walked into
    Bakewell, caught a bus to Derby, caught a train to London,
    went to a hotel, then off to Stanfords for maps and books,
    a Chinese noodle place for noodles, the Odeon for a movie,
    and the trip was just about over, wasn't it?

    Despite the setbacks, I hope you enjoyed it.

    Regards, Nick.

    --
    Nick Hopton and Anne Hopton Caversham, Reading, England
    <[email hidden]

  5. "Nick Hopton" <> Despite the setbacks, I hope you
    enjoyed it.

    Quoted message said:


    Oh, I loved it--I'm coming over at least twice a year the
    past few years to walk. I can't gety enough, though my feet
    and blisters apparently can.

    I apologize for forgetting about Bangor in N Wales and
    Boston over in the east. Had they named Bangor Norumbega, as
    was first mooted, my email would have been a lot clearer.

  6. "Paul Saunders">

    Quoted message said:

    How did it match your expectations?

    Oh, it exceeded my expectations. The valey and walking were
    both wonderful.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Interesting question. As a general rule it's the photos
    that I savor


    and remember.

    I like what you say about photography. Clearly you
    understand what I was getting at--we just have different and
    opposite solutions. I try to see it all obliquely, never
    directly, and it takes a lot to get me to remark to myself
    on anything--happened maybe once a day in the Peak District
    which is pretty good: entering Cave Dale, top of Jacob's
    Ladder, Chrome Hill, and so on.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
  7. "Chris Street" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    john goldfine said:

    Car to Bangor. Taught all morning. Zipped over to
    airport. Plane to Boston. Wait. Wait. Plane to Heathrow.
    Train to Paddington.


    Underground

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    to Kingscross. Train to Edale. Foot to B & B.

    If I didn't know there was a Bangor, MA then I would have
    been seriously confused by this, as that's the oddest
    route and airport from North Wales


    I

    Quoted message said:

    can think of!

    Bangor is in Maine not Massachussets. The "Kingscross" may
    have been a giveaway as well though.

  8. "john goldfine" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:


    "Nick Hopton" <> Despite the setbacks, I hope you
    enjoyed it.

    Quoted message said:


    Oh, I loved it--I'm coming over at least twice a year the
    past few years


    to

    Quoted message said:

    walk. I can't gety enough, though my feet and blisters
    apparently can.

    When are you doing the end-to-end?

    Quoted message said:

    I apologize for forgetting about Bangor in N Wales and
    Boston over in the east. Had they named Bangor Norumbega,
    as was first mooted, my email


    would

    Quoted message said:

    have been a lot clearer.

    In future do try to remember that Boston and Cambridge in MA
    were named after the Boston presently in Lincs and the
    Cambridge presently in Cambs!
    --
    Mark South Citizen of the World, Denizen of the Net <<Tiens!
    Ce poulet a une grenade!

  9. john goldfine said:

    I like what you say about photography. Clearly you
    understand what I was getting at--we just have different
    and opposite solutions. I try to see it all obliquely,
    never directly,

    Memories are a strange thing. What you think is important at
    the time may not be what you later remember.

    With photography it's as if I'm choosing my memories
    enroute, which is a rather arbitrary way of doing it.
    Naturally I tend to choose the photogenic scenes, yet much
    of the walk (and the subsequent memory) may consist of a
    long wet trudge through bogs. Not the sort of thing one
    feels inclined to photograph, but it may be the most
    significant aspect of the experience. If it isn't
    photographed, that memory will fade while the photographs do
    not, so the arbitrary choices eventually replace what the
    natural memories might have been.

    Very often one avoids photographing the commonplace,
    choosing instead to shoot the scenes that stand out from the
    crowd, thus the memory of the commonplace may be forgotten,
    even though it may have been a big part of the walk at the
    time. In the same way, one tends to forget the pain and
    exhaustion of a walk and eventually remember only the good
    things that happened.

    Do non-photographed trips provide more pure memories?
    Perhaps. But personally I prefer photos, even if they do
    misrepresent the actual experience.

    My walks and wild camping trips during the early years of
    82-84 are remembered in much the same way as those black and
    white film clips from WWII - distant, historical, faded,
    removed from reality - it's almost as if those trips were
    experienced by a different person. I feel little real
    connection with them. I know they happened, but was that
    really me? Hard to believe now.

    Yet from 85 onward my trips were recorded in glorious colour
    photographs. Not the best photographs I've ever taken, but
    one glance at a photograph of myself in Feb 1985 chewing on
    some corned beef outside a tent that no longer exists, next
    to a river in a valley that has since been re-landscaped,
    and I instantly go back in time to that place. I am that
    person, I'm sitting there, I can hear the river, feel the
    chill in the air, smell the wet grass etc. Photographs have
    an amazing ability to transport you back in time.

    Just a few months separate camping trips which feel "as if
    it were yesterday" and "as if it were ancient history". Had
    I taken, or not taken photographs on those trips, the
    memories now would be very different indeed. Fascinating to
    contemplate.

    Yet arguably, everything that has ever happened to us is
    stored in our brains somewhere, we just need some kind of
    stimuli to bring those memories to the surface. Photos can
    do that, but how else can it be acheived without photos? The
    memories must still be there...

    Sorry to take your TR off on a different tangent. I did
    enjoy it more than most. It was written in an
    interesting way.

    Paul
    --
    wilderness-wales.co.ukwilderness-wales.co.uk
    wildwales.fsnet.co.ukwildwales.fsnet.co.uk
    photosig.comuserphotos

  10. [email hidden] said...

    Quoted message said:

    "Girls, stop! Savor it!"


    Straight out of any one of the numerous 'school' books I
    read as a child! Wonderful :-)

    I don't often read trip reports, but that account was very
    entertaining John, and very evocative. I was with you every
    step of the way, right down to the blisters. Thanks for
    sharing your trip with us. I'm still giggling over the school-
    marm - she reminds me of someone I used to know.
    --
    Fran If you need my email address please ask.

  11. [email hidden] said...

    Quoted message said:
    john goldfine said:

    Car to Bangor. Taught all morning. Zipped over to
    airport. Plane to Boston. Wait. Wait. Plane to Heathrow.
    Train to Paddington. Underground to Kingscross. Train to
    Edale. Foot to B & B.

    If I didn't know there was a Bangor, MA then I would have
    been seriously confused by this, as that's the oddest
    route and airport from North Wales I can think of!


    Oh! I was thinking of Boston Lincs because I'd assumed
    north Wales and couldn't imagine the route otherwise. I
    just assumed John meant he'd 'zipped over' to Liverpool
    or Manchester, and... does Boston (Lincs) even *have*
    an airstrip?

    I'll go back to school, shall I, and do a geography course?
    --
    Fran If you need my email address please ask.

  12. Mark South said:

    In future do try to remember that Boston and Cambridge in
    MA were named after the Boston presently in Lincs and the
    Cambridge presently in Cambs!

    Unlike Bangor which apparently wasn't named after Bangor.
    bgrme.orgindex2.html

    I didn't even know we had a Boston in the UK.

    Paul
    --
    wilderness-wales.co.ukwilderness-wales.co.uk
    wildwales.fsnet.co.ukwildwales.fsnet.co.uk
    photosig.comuserphotos

  13. Fran <[email hidden]> wrote

    Quoted message said:

    [email hidden] said...

    Quoted message said:

    "Girls, stop! Savor it!"


    Straight out of any one of the numerous 'school' books I
    read as a child! Wonderful :-)


    I think I remember something like that in "The prime of Miss
    Jean Brodie"?

    Quoted message said:

    I don't often read trip reports, but that account was very
    entertaining John, and very evocative. I was with you every
    step of the way, right down to the blisters. Thanks for
    sharing your trip with us. I'm still giggling over the school-
    marm - she reminds me of someone I used to know.

    I always enjoy John's reports, always plenty of 'colour'.

    And he seems to like the country I enjoy, Yorkshire Dales
    and Derbyshire, I have walked all those paths, John, as have
    many others on here, I'm sure....
    --
    Gordon

  14. "Paul Saunders" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    Mark South said:

    In future do try to remember that Boston and Cambridge
    in MA were named after the Boston presently in Lincs and
    the Cambridge presently in Cambs!

    Unlike Bangor which apparently wasn't named after Bangor.
    bgrme.orgindex2.html

    I'm not up on Irish hymns, but one might suspect that there
    is a strong connection between the names of Bangor in Wales
    and the hymn.

    Quoted message said:

    I didn't even know we had a Boston in the UK.

    It was in Lincs last time I looked. There's very little
    difference between the two Bostons except that the US one
    has a harbour, while the original is landlocked. Aside from
    that you could hardly tell them apart.

    Many New England towns were named after places in England -
    the Puritans were trying to create a _new_ England from the
    wilderness, with all the good things about old England and
    none of the disadvantages.

    Boston MA was originally called New Boston, and New York was
    originally often called simply York. I don't know if
    Cambridge MA was ever called New Cambridge.

    --
    Mark South Citizen of the World, Denizen of the Net <<Tiens!
    Ce poulet a une grenade!

  15. In [email hidden]
    john goldfine mused:

    Quoted message said:

    Car to Bangor. Taught all morning. Zipped over to airport.
    Plane to Boston. Wait. Wait. Plane to Heathrow. Train to
    Paddington. Underground to Kingscross. Train to Edale.
    Foot to B & B.


    <snip xl-ent TR>

    Glad you enjoyed the Peak - yes, Cave Dale is a bit of gem,
    but there again I think Monks Dale is as well, despite (or
    because of?) the 'cobbles'. And, yes, Kinder can be a tad
    busy at times. A walk over the plateau, watching for the
    heads that pop up and down, as the people they are attahced
    to descend and ascend, in and out of the groughs.

    Lathkill Dale is the apian's patella - a head torch is
    required for cursory examination of the caves/old
    workings. Some are walk-in, some are crawl on the tum.
    Some have a rapid change of direction, downwards, so it
    pays to be careful.

    Sorry to hear you found a "Basil Fawlty" type.

    Might I recommend Gordon Stainforth's "The Peak - Past and
    Present" as a good read/look - the photography is pretty
    good, and the prose isn't too bad either.

    --
    A l'eau - c'est l'heure (French Navy Motto)

  16. Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Mark South said:

    >


    I didn't even know we had a Boston in the UK.

    It was in Lincs last time I looked. There's very little
    difference


    between

    Quoted message said:

    the two Bostons except that the US one has a harbour,
    while the original


    is

    Quoted message said:

    landlocked. Aside from that you could hardly tell
    them apart.

    Many New England towns were named after places in England
    - the Puritans were trying to create a _new_ England from
    the wilderness, with all the


    good

    Quoted message said:

    things about old England and none of the disadvantages.

    Boston MA was originally called New Boston, and New York
    was originally often called simply York. I don't know if
    Cambridge MA was ever called


    New

    Quoted message said:

    Cambridge.


    I may not be able to adequately pronounce the name of the
    battle that ended Napoleon's career, but about Boston, New
    Boston if you will, I do know something, as, lo these many
    years ago, I first saw light of day there. You may be
    interested to know that Bostonians consider themselves a
    good cut above the unwashed hordes in places like New York
    and others further west and south. Boston is often referred
    to by natives (and not always with tongue in cheek) as The
    Hub, after OW Holmes Sr., a 19th Century essayist, who
    described it as the Hub of the Universe. This we native
    Bostonians find just, if perhaps a little understated.

    Boston also is known as Beantown, because of the ubiquitous
    Boston Baked Bean of its early days (the dreadful baked
    beans swimming in the middle of a Full English Breakfast are
    [censored] descendents of the real thing, which does not come
    out of a can.) In fact, there is a ditty about Boston,
    dietary staples, and its grand families:

    Welcome to Boston/Home of the bean and the cod/Where the
    Cabots speak only to the Lowells/And the Lowells speak
    only to God.

    When people talk about prez candidate Kerry as a Boston
    Brahmin, they mean he's related to those Cabots and Lowells--
    in fact, he's aWinthrop, which is just as ancient and fancy
    though it doesn't rhyme with anything much except 'sinner
    pup' so didn't find itself in a ditty. Bostonians are old
    world in that they are aware of such things-origins, family,
    accents--whereas in most of the US, no one cares that much.

    Boston is also home of the hapless Boston Red Sox, the
    baseball team. As I walk in England and see the ubiquitous
    New York Yankee cap on the heads of people who have no idea
    what it symbolizes for a Bostonian, it takes a bit of self-
    control not to berate the wearers, or if they look puny
    enough, knock it right off their heads. Wearing a Yankees
    cap in Boston is an invitation to a fight, because fancying
    the Yankees is like fancying Satan, like rooting for the life-
    destroying asteroid heading for earth. It's a Boston thing.
    The Red Sox insignia, for those who care, is a modest but
    proud B, usually red, on a blue field.

    There is no excitement for a native like the excitement of
    cresting the hill on Route One after a long drive down from
    his home of exile in the State of Maine (formerly a province
    of Massachussets) and seeing the skyscrapers of the Hub.

  17. Mark South said:

    "Paul Saunders" <[email hidden]> wrote:

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    I didn't even know we had a Boston in the UK.

    It was in Lincs last time I looked.

    Of course it is. That's why Mr. Saunders has never heard of
    it. Outside Wales and in a flat area. :-)

    Quoted message said:


    Many New England towns were named after places in England -
    the Puritans were trying to create a _new_ England from the
    wilderness, with all the good things about old England and
    none of the disadvantages.

    New York was originally often called simply York.

    Was New York ever called simply York? Toronto used to be
    called York. Before it was New York it was Nieuw Amsterdam.
    --
    Phil Cook looking north over the park to the
    "Westminster Gasworks"

  18. john goldfine said:

    Wearing a Yankees cap in Boston is an invitation to a
    fight, because fancying the Yankees is like fancying
    Satan, like rooting for the life-destroying asteroid
    heading for earth. It's a Boston thing. The Red Sox
    insignia, for those who care, is a modest but proud B,
    usually red, on a blue field.

    Ah, a bit like wearing a Man Utd shirt in Liverpool then.

    Why we brits go for "Yankee" paraphenalia is beyond me. I
    know that Man U and the Yankees have a marketing agreement
    for mutual inflation of profit from sales or merchandise,
    but the USA T shirts and stars and stripes logos I simply
    cannot fathom.
    --
    Phil Cook looking north over the park to the
    "Westminster Gasworks"

  19. In a recent message <[email hidden]>,
    john goldfine <[email hidden]> wrote.

    [...]

    Quoted message said:

    There is no excitement for a native like the excitement
    of cresting the hill on Route One after a long drive
    down from his home of exile in the State of Maine
    (formerly a province of Massachussets) and seeing the
    skyscrapers of the Hub.

    Not to mention the green monster <g>.

    Regards, Nick.

    --
    Nick Hopton and Anne Hopton Caversham, Reading, England
    <[email hidden]

  20. "Phil Cook" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    Mark South said:

    "Paul Saunders" <[email hidden]> wrote:

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    I didn't even know we had a Boston in the UK.

    It was in Lincs last time I looked.

    Of course it is. That's why Mr. Saunders has never heard
    of it. Outside Wales and in a flat area. :-)

    Why should he care indeed? :-)

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Many New England towns were named after places in England
    - the Puritans were trying to create a _new_ England from
    the wilderness, with all the


    good

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    things about old England and none of the disadvantages.

    New York was originally often called simply York.

    Was New York ever called simply York? Toronto used to be
    called York. Before it was New York it was Nieuw
    Amsterdam.

    The Dutch called it Nieuw Amsterdam, the name given it by
    Mijnheer Stuyvesant. I don't think the English liked the
    name so well.

    It is referred to as simply York in american writings of the
    early 19th century. And no, they aren't referring to Old
    York/Jorvik/Eburacum.

    And when on earth is one of you going to turn this back into
    a GPS thread as the gods intended??????
    --
    Mark South Citizen of the World, Denizen of the Net <<Tiens!
    Ce poulet a une grenade!

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