TR: Pumlumon & Elan 3-day backpack

GeoffC wrote

Quoted message said:

As on all our visits to the Elan Valley, the area was
totally deserted.

Elan is one of our regular jaunts and it never fails to
astound me just how few people you see there. Much of the
central moorland between, say, Elan and Strata Florida is
remote and featureless but it nonetheless has an air of
mystery and tranquility about. Dotted within are fine peaks
like Drygarn Fawr while around the edges there's plenty of
hills that overlook the valleys from great viewpoints (Y
Gamriw for instance). The whole place just seems to be
generally overlooked ... which is fine by me :-)

Chris

Chris Gilbert said:

Much of the central moorland between, say, Elan and
Strata Florida is remote and featureless but it
nonetheless has an air of mystery and tranquility about.
Dotted within are fine peaks like Drygarn Fawr while
around the edges there's plenty of hills that overlook
the valleys from great viewpoints (Y Gamriw for
instance). The whole place just seems to be generally
overlooked ... which is fine by me :-)

That would be what I call the Cwmdeuddwr Hills. Great
area for solitude and wild walking. And fun navigation
in hill fog!

Paul
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On 11 Jun 2004 01:43:51 -0700, [email hidden] (Chris

Gilbert) said:

Elan is one of our regular jaunts and it never fails to
astound me just how few people you see there.

Me too, it must be because the whole area is almost pathless
and generally pretty wet, as well as a navigation nightmare
- good place to hone your skills!. Few people will invest
the effort here when the rocky regions beckon more.

Quoted message said:

Much of the central moorland between, say, Elan and Strata
Florida is remote and featureless but it nonetheless has an
air of mystery and tranquility about. Dotted within are
fine peaks like Drygarn Fawr while around the edges there's
plenty of hills that overlook the valleys from great
viewpoints (Y Gamriw for instance).

Absolutely right, it makes a fine change from the rocky
honeypots, especially in summer.

Quoted message said:

The whole place just seems to be generally overlooked ...
which is fine by me :-)

Long may it be so!.

-- GeoffC

Chris Gilbert said:

GeoffC wrote

Quoted message said:

As on all our visits to the Elan Valley, the area was
totally deserted.

Elan is one of our regular jaunts and it never fails to
astound me just how few people you see there. Much of
the central moorland between, say, Elan and Strata
Florida is remote and featureless but it nonetheless has
an air of mystery and tranquility about. Dotted within
are fine peaks like Drygarn Fawr while around the edges
there's plenty of hills that overlook the valleys from
great viewpoints (Y Gamriw for instance). The whole
place just seems to be generally overlooked ... which is
fine by me :-)

Chris

The locals like it that way also.

The stones, at least the cairns on Drygan, were built by the
lead miners from the mines in the Rhiwnant Valley which is
just below Drygan towards the Claerwen Valley.

Derek Cosslett

"Chris Gilbert" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

an air of mystery and tranquility about. Dotted within are
fine peaks like Drygarn Fawr while around the edges
there's plenty of hills that

Is there anything significant on the top of Drygarn Fawr?
I believe it's just, and only just, visible from the stone
circle at Kerry Hill / Pole (Ceri) near Newtown. Drop a
few feet down from the circle and it's no longer visible.
Have wondered whether its "viewability" might have
determined where the stone circle was sited. (There's a
tumulus higher up.)

--
M Stewart one time surveyor of stone circles... Milton
Keynes, UK www.megalith.freeserve.co.uk/oddimage.htm
myweb.tiscali.co.ukms1938Open ↗

Paul Saunders said:

That would be what I call the Cwmdeuddwr Hills. Great
area for solitude and wild walking. And fun navigation in
hill fog!

Paul

Peter Hermon uses that name in his 'Hillwalking in Wales'
books, but I think the Elan Valley name is more widely
recognised - it's certainly easier to pronounce!.

The area around Waun Claerddu must have been designed by God
to torment walkers in mist. There are innumerable hillocks
that just might or might not be big enough to have a ring
contour, of which there are lots on the map. There are
boundary stones everywhere on the skyline that briefly
appear through the mist and add further to the confusions.
No people though!.

What is the origin of all those stones anyway?.

Regards

-- GeoffC

In message <[email hidden]>, Paul
Saunders <[email hidden]> writes

Quoted message said:

GeoffC said:

What is the origin of all those stones anyway?.

No idea.

Out of the ground?

--
Martin Richardson
239/284 Munros - 15% to go 34/34 'Furths' & 439/439 Nuttalls
- 0% to go
240/89 Donalds - 53% to go 0/? Himalayans - 100% to go
241/1552 Marilyns - 72% to go

Quoted message said:

Is there anything significant on the top of Drygarn Fawr?
I believe it's just, and only just, visible from the stone
circle at Kerry Hill / Pole (Ceri) near Newtown. Drop a
few feet down from the circle and it's no longer visible.
Have wondered whether its "viewability" might have
determined where the stone circle was sited. (There's a
tumulus higher up.)

I don't recall the exact name or details, but several years
ago I read a library book called "The First Stonehenge" or
similar. It concentrated on the eastern end of the Mynydd
Preseli in Pembrokeshire, from whence came the Bluestones at
Stonehenge. Anyway, like Ronnie Corbett I'll get to the
point eventually, near the outcrop from which the bluestones
were taken is a large hillfort called Foel Drygarn. From
Foel Drygarn, guesss where the midsummer sun rises? You
guessed it. So the significance of Drygarn is that it may
well once have been part of the observations that predated
and gave the model for Stonehenge, which in itself appears
to have spawned measurements used in the construction of the
Egyptian pyramids. Whether it's just speculation or not, it
makes a fascinating subject and a reason in itself for
visting the summit. Sorry to bore you,

Steve Jones

Derek said:

The stones, at least the cairns on Drygan, were built by
the lead miners from the mines in the Rhiwnant Valley
which is just below Drygan towards the Claerwen Valley.

Are you sure? I thought those were ancient cairns. The
miners may have *rebuilt* them but they were probably there
already. The name probably originates a long time ago, and
the name specifically mentions cairns, three of them, hence
"dry-garn". I've seen two huge cairns up there, but I'm at a
loss to where the third is (or was).

The whole area is *very* ancient cairny. Y Gamriw, to the
east past Gorllwyn and north a bit, is positively covered in
them, like huge rocky molehills scattered all over the
place. The summit cairn has been rebuilt (last time I was
there it was a circular walled structure with a door making
an excellent shelter - all it needed was a tarp over the top
and I could happily have spent the night there. The others
are all slumped piles of rocks though, often very big piles,
probably left that way for thousands of years. I'd guess
that Drygarn Fawr probably looked like that until the
miners(?) decided to rebuilt it.

Paul
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Malcolm Stewart said:

Is there anything significant on the top of Drygarn Fawr?

Anything significant? You'd better believe it. Biggest damn
cairn I've seen in Wales. Approximately 4m high I reckon and
well built. Cylindrical with vertical sides, you have to
climb it..

Quoted message said:

I believe it's just, and only just, visible from the
stone circle at Kerry Hill / Pole (Ceri) near Newtown.
Drop a few feet down from the circle and it's no longer
visible. Have wondered whether its "viewability" might
have determined where the stone circle was sited.
(There's a tumulus higher up.)

I think that's a strong possibilitiy. Drygarn Fawr is the
highest summit in the area so it's a major landmark.

Paul
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GeoffC said:

Quoted message said:

That would be what I call the Cwmdeuddwr Hills. Great
area for solitude and wild walking. And fun navigation in
hill fog!

Peter Hermon uses that name in his 'Hillwalking in Wales'
books, but I think the Elan Valley name is more widely
recognised - it's certainly easier to pronounce!.

What's difficult about Cwmdeuddwr? ;-)

Thing, is, the Elan Valley, as implied by the name, refers
specifically to the valley, and it's not the only valley
there. I believe Cwmdeuddwr refers to the two main valleys
(Elan and Claerwen). I think it means valley(s) of the two
waters or something like that (I'm sure someone will correct
me). The point of the name Cwmdeuddwr Hills is that it
refers to the hills around the two valleys, rather than the
valleys themselves.

Quoted message said:

The area around Waun Claerddu must have been designed by
God to torment walkers in mist.

Good innit? Although I've never actually had the pleasure of
being there in the mist yet.

Quoted message said:

There are innumerable hillocks that just might or might
not be big enough to have a ring contour, of which there
are lots on the map. There are boundary stones everywhere
on the skyline that briefly appear through the mist and
add further to the confusions. No people though!.

What is the origin of all those stones anyway?.

No idea.

Paul
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Steve Jones said:

So the significance of Drygarn is that it may well once
have been part of the observations that predated and gave
the model for Stonehenge,

Of course, we are talking about a different Drygarn.

Quoted message said:

Whether it's just speculation or not, it makes a
fascinating subject and a reason in itself for visting
the summit.

Indeed.

Quoted message said:

Sorry to bore you,

Not at all.

Paul
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"GeoffC" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

The area around Waun Claerddu must have been designed by
God to torment walkers in mist. There are innumerable
hillocks that just might or might not be big enough to
have a ring contour, of which there are lots on the map.
There are boundary stones everywhere on the skyline that
briefly appear through the mist and add further to the
confusions. No people though!.

What is the origin of all those stones anyway?.

Regards

-- GeoffC

The numerous boundary stones you refer to mark the boundary
of the 180 sq km Elan Estate, which is the catchment area
for the reservoirs. An outline map of the estate can be
found here. elanvalley.org.ukvisit.htmlOpen ↗

A thorn in the flesh of us Welsh since the Birmingham
Corporation compulsory purchased the land in the late
19thC to secure a water supply for the city, evicting over
100 occupants of the valley at a moments notice.
Compensation was paid to just a few landlords (and guess
where they were from!).

The Act of Parliament passed to facilitate this action
grants the general public access to the land for "air,
exercise and recreation" but wildcampers (wild campers?)
should note that this catchall does not extend as far as
camping, which is specifically prohibited across the whole
of the catchment area. I wouldn't let that stop you though.
elanvalley.org.ukrecreation.htmOpen ↗

--
Gwyn Reply to:- urw(dot)mail(dot)gwyn(at)xoxy(dot)net

Paul Saunders wrote on Tue, 15 Jun 2004 01:16:09 +0100....

Quoted message said:

Malcolm Stewart said:

Is there anything significant on the top of
Drygarn Fawr?

Anything significant? You'd better believe it. Biggest
damn cairn I've seen in Wales. Approximately 4m high I
reckon and well built. Cylindrical with vertical sides,
you have to climb it..

I seem to recall one like that on the Nantlle Ridge walk you
didn't do a couple of years back.

(Yeah, yeah, all right, I know, we *none* of us did the
Nantlle Ridge...)

--
Tim Jackson [email hidden] (Change
'.invalid' to '.co.uk' to reply direct) Absurd patents:
visit patent.freeserve.co.ukpatent.freeserve.co.ukOpen ↗

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

So the significance of Drygarn is that it may well once
have been part of the observations that predated and
gave the model for Stonehenge,

Of course, we are talking about a different Drygarn.

I Know that Paul, it is however a spooky coincidence that
the top of a far off hill in west Wales shares that name
and from where the most important sunrise of the ancient
calender rises over its namesake. The Cambrian mountains
are fairly sparsely populated with tumuli & hill forts and
it just so happens that Drygarn has a massive cairn, on top
of which a large fire could have been lit to make it
visible many miles away & establish exactly where the
midsummer sun is rising. There are other astronomical
alignments in the Preseli hills which are mirrored in
Stonehenge and that area must have had a huge significance,
otherwise why would they have shipped the stones all the
way to Salisbury Plain? - A feat that was re-enacted a few
years ago and ended in dismal failure, showing the effort
and expertise the ancients were prepared to exert. Its got
me sold enough to plan to get up at an ungodly hour next
Monday morning to try to see it fo myself.

Steve

The message <[email hidden]>
from Tim Jackson <[email hidden]> contains these words:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Is there anything significant on the top of Drygarn
Fawr?

Anything significant? You'd better believe it. Biggest
damn cairn I've seen in Wales. Approximately 4m high I
reckon and well built. Cylindrical with vertical sides,
you have to climb it..

Quoted message said:

I seem to recall one like that on the Nantlle Ridge walk
you didn't do a couple of years back.

Wasn't it square rather than round?

Quoted message said:

(Yeah, yeah, all right, I know, we *none* of us did the
Nantlle Ridge...)

Oh yes we did. It is only Paul who thought that
insignificant flat lump to the West is part of the
Nantlle ridge.

--
Roger Chapman so far this year 34 summits New - 18 (Marilyns
6, Sweats 1, Outlying Fells 11) Repeats - 16( Marilyns 5,
Sweats 11, Wainwrights 11) Knackered knee - 4 times

Ferlas Mor said:

The numerous boundary stones you refer to mark the
boundary of the 180 sq km Elan Estate, which is the
catchment area for the reservoirs. An outline map of the
estate can be found here.
elanvalley.org.ukvisit.htmlOpen ↗

Handy.

Quoted message said:

The Act of Parliament passed to facilitate this action
grants the general public access to the land for "air,
exercise and recreation" but wildcampers (wild campers?)
should note that this catchall does not extend as far as
camping,

Typical killjoy attitude. What do they think campers do,
pour poison into the streams? There's more than enough
room and water for a handful of wild campers to have any
effect on it.

Quoted message said:

which is specifically prohibited across the whole of the
catchment area.

Whoops! Too late...

Quoted message said:

I wouldn't let that stop you though.

How would they stop you? I've never seen anyone
wandering those hills looking for campers. Very rare to
see anyone at all.

Paul
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Roger wrote on Tue, 15 Jun 2004 22:31:08 +0100....

Quoted message said:

The message
<[email hidden]> from Tim
Jackson <[email hidden]> contains
these words:

[Re: tall cairns]

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I seem to recall one like that on the Nantlle Ridge walk
you didn't do a couple of years back.

Wasn't it square rather than round?

Possibly; I can't really remember.

Looking at the Nuttalls' book, it must have been on Mynydd
Tal-y- Mignedd, where they describe a "tall stone tower,
built by quarry workers to commemorate Queen Victoria's
Diamond Jubilee". Was it a proper job with mortar, then,
rather than merely a well-built cairn?

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

(Yeah, yeah, all right, I know, we *none* of us did the
Nantlle Ridge...)

Oh yes we did. It is only Paul who thought that
insignificant flat lump to the West is part of the
Nantlle ridge.

As I recall, he even thought the Lleyn Peninsula was part of
the Nantlle ridge... [ D&RFC. No, Paul, we *really* don't
want to discuss it again :-) ]

--
Tim Jackson [email hidden] (Change
'.invalid' to '.co.uk' to reply direct) Absurd patents:
visit patent.freeserve.co.ukpatent.freeserve.co.ukOpen ↗

Roger said:

Quoted message said:

(Yeah, yeah, all right, I know, we *none* of us did the
Nantlle Ridge...)

Oh yes we did. It is only Paul who thought that
insignificant flat lump to the West is part of the
Nantlle ridge.

Oh no you didn't! Only die-hard traditionalist peak baggers
with an imperial fixation think that only summits over
2000ft are significant. ;-)

Paul
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