"train your weaknesses" during the off-season

"Raptor" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I'm a pansy when it comes to riding in cold weather, so what should I try if my weakness is
climbing?

Go on a diet and lose weight.

Climbing ability is dictated by the power/weight ratio. Increasing power isn't easy, but losing
weight is.

It's not a popular answer since it involves discipline (giving up your Big Macs) in a way that isn't
the most fun, however, it is the most effective.

"Raptor" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I'm a pansy when it comes to riding in cold weather, so what should I try if my weakness is
climbing?

I have been doing a little lifting but sense that my muscles are getting bigger, which is
something I don't want. I'm a beefy, sprinter type and can max out the leg press machine at
the gym.

I have snowshoes, hiking boots, a gym membership and nearby mountains. I'm dabbling with skating
with the intent of learning to speed skate. Spinning classes seem to be helping my aerobic
capacity, but of course it's not the same as riding up a canyon road.

I prefer the "train your strengths" approach to riding. I KNOW that I'm never going to be a skinny
little climber, so I'd rather concentrate on the things that are going to win me the most races:
sprints, intervals, and mileage. The upside to this is that you're going to be a hammer in crits and
flatter rides. The downside is that you're not going to climb as fast as the climbers. Because
you've been working on your power and stamina, you'll be able to hang longer just 'cause.

This isn't to say I always avoid hills. Sometimes they're a necessary part of a training plan. My
hill riding is usually a specific power-oriented repeat type ride, rather than going out and
indiscriminately riding in the hills.

I have memories (I was going to say fond, but that's the wrong word for it!) of trainer sessions in
the winters in VA with friends. I actually LOST fitness in the spring when I started riding outside.

"Dr." Mike's recommendation: be the best sprinter/rouleur (sp?) that you can be and let the little
climbers suffer on your wheel on the flats. Go win crits grasshopper!

Quoted message said:

--
Lynn Wallace xmission.com~lawallOpen ↗ "I'm not proud. We really haven't done everything we
could to protect our customers. Our products just aren't engineered for security." --Microsoft VP
in charge of Windows OS Development, Brian Valentine.

"Mike S." <mikeshaw2@coxDOTnet> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I prefer the "train your strengths" approach to riding.

I used to do that. Training for sprints was fun because I was as fast as almost anyone in sprints
right from the start. Thing is, I hit a plateau until I started emphasizing weaknesses.

The downside of training weaknesses is that it's not as fun because you aren't good at it relative
to your peers. The upside is that you become a much better rider and win more races. It's far more
satisfying, IMO, to win a race using a part of your repertoire that used to be a weakness. It means
that you've transformed yourself and that accomplishment transcends merely emphasizing one's
natural talent.

A few professional riders who have managed this are Sean Kelly (sprinter to Classics God and Vuelta
winner), Johan Museeuw (sprinter to Classics God), Djamolodine Abdujaporov (sprinter to winning TdF
stage which ended on Category 3 climb), Lance Armstrong (power climber/one-day rider to TdF winner)
and Laurent Jalabert (sprinter to Vuelta winner, stage race GC specialist, World TT champion, UCI
#1 ranking).

In article <[email hidden]>, Kurgan Gringioni

Quoted message said:

"Raptor" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I'm a pansy when it comes to riding in cold weather, so what should I try if my weakness is
climbing?

Go on a diet and lose weight.

Climbing ability is dictated by the power/weight ratio. Increasing power isn't easy, but losing
weight is.

How hard would it be to increase power by 10% compared to reducing bodyfat from say, 17% to 7%?

-WG

In article <[email hidden]>, Kurgan Gringioni

Quoted message said:

"Mike S." <mikeshaw2@coxDOTnet> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I prefer the "train your strengths" approach to riding.

I used to do that. Training for sprints was fun because I was as fast as almost anyone in sprints
right from the start. Thing is, I hit a plateau until I started emphasizing weaknesses.

The downside of training weaknesses is that it's not as fun because you aren't good at it relative
to your peers. The upside is that you become a much better rider and win more races. It's far more
satisfying, IMO, to win a race using a part of your repertoire that used to be a weakness. It
means that you've transformed yourself and that accomplishment transcends merely emphasizing one's
natural talent.

A few professional riders who have managed this are Sean Kelly (sprinter to Classics God and
Vuelta winner), Johan Museeuw (sprinter to Classics God), Djamolodine Abdujaporov (sprinter to
winning TdF stage which ended on Category 3 climb), Lance Armstrong (power climber/one-day rider
to TdF winner) and Laurent Jalabert (sprinter to Vuelta winner, stage race GC specialist, World TT
champion, UCI #1 ranking).

Wow! An intelligent, thoughtful response to a question. Maybe this is somebody pretending to
be Kurgan.

-WG

"warren" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>, Kurgan Gringioni

Quoted message said:

"Mike S." <mikeshaw2@coxDOTnet> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I prefer the "train your strengths" approach to riding.

I used to do that. Training for sprints was fun because I was as fast as almost anyone in
sprints right from the start. Thing is, I hit a plateau until I started emphasizing weaknesses.

The downside of training weaknesses is that it's not as fun because you aren't good at it
relative to your peers. The upside is that you become

a

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

much better rider and win more races. It's far more satisfying, IMO, to

win

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

a race using a part of your repertoire that used to be a weakness. It

means

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

that you've transformed yourself and that accomplishment transcends

merely

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

emphasizing one's natural talent.

A few professional riders who have managed this are Sean Kelly (sprinter

to

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Classics God and Vuelta winner), Johan Museeuw (sprinter to Classics

God),

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Djamolodine Abdujaporov (sprinter to winning TdF stage which ended on Category 3 climb), Lance
Armstrong (power climber/one-day rider to TdF winner) and Laurent Jalabert (sprinter to Vuelta
winner, stage race GC specialist, World TT champion, UCI #1 ranking).

Wow! An intelligent, thoughtful response to a question. Maybe this is somebody pretending to
be Kurgan.

my guess is either steve taylor or tom kunich. those guys know everything about bike racing.

heather

In article said:

How hard would it be to increase power by 10% compared to reducing bodyfat from say, 17% to 7%?

-WG

Warren,

If you are new to cycling, increasing your power at LT by 10% is something that can be done I would
think, pretty easily.

If however, you've been training at a high level for a while, I think gaining 10% power at LT would
be hard. Harder than dropping from 17% to 10% or so.

In article <[email hidden]>, chiefhiawatha

Quoted message said:

In article said:

How hard would it be to increase power by 10% compared to reducing bodyfat from say, 17% to 7%?

-WG

Warren,

If you are new to cycling, increasing your power at LT by 10% is something that can be done I
would think, pretty easily.

If however, you've been training at a high level for a while, I think gaining 10% power at LT
would be hard. Harder than dropping from 17% to 10% or so.

I've done about 650 races. I have a power sensor on my bike. Mine was a rhetorical question
for Henry.

-Warren

"Kurgan Gringioni" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Mike S." <mikeshaw2@coxDOTnet> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I prefer the "train your strengths" approach to riding.

I used to do that. Training for sprints was fun because I was as fast as almost anyone in sprints
right from the start. Thing is, I hit a plateau until I started emphasizing weaknesses.

The downside of training weaknesses is that it's not as fun because you aren't good at it relative
to your peers. The upside is that you become a much better rider and win more races. It's far more
satisfying, IMO, to

win

Quoted message said:

a race using a part of your repertoire that used to be a weakness. It

means

Quoted message said:

that you've transformed yourself and that accomplishment transcends merely emphasizing one's
natural talent.

A few professional riders who have managed this are Sean Kelly (sprinter

to

Quoted message said:

Classics God and Vuelta winner), Johan Museeuw (sprinter to Classics God), Djamolodine Abdujaporov
(sprinter to winning TdF stage which ended on Category 3 climb), Lance Armstrong (power
climber/one-day rider to TdF winner) and Laurent Jalabert (sprinter to Vuelta winner, stage race
GC specialist, World TT champion, UCI #1 ranking).

Yeah, but if you're a 4, or even a 3 you're better off training strengths. When you're a pro/1/2
then I'd say you really have to start worrying about things like that.

I don't want to have cancer, lose most of my muscle mass, and one of my testicles to win climbing
races. That's pretty much what it'd take for
me... Even in college when I weighed 155 I couldn't climb for [censored].

Mike

"Mike S." <mikeshaw2@coxDOTnet> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Yeah, but if you're a 4, or even a 3 you're better off training strengths. When you're a pro/1/2
then I'd say you really have to start worrying about things like that.

That's precisely why you're a 4 or a 3.

"warren" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>, chiefhiawatha

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>, warren

<[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

How hard would it be to increase power by 10% compared to reducing bodyfat from say, 17%
to 7%?

-WG

Warren,

If you are new to cycling, increasing your power at LT by 10% is

something

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

that can be done I would think, pretty easily.

If however, you've been training at a high level for a while, I think gaining 10% power at LT
would be hard. Harder than dropping from 17% to 10% or so.

I've done about 650 races. I have a power sensor on my bike. Mine was a rhetorical question
for Henry.

-Warren

I've already written that it's easier to lose weight.

You don't have to train more. You don't need a specialized training program. You don't need to buy
EPO. All you have to do is eat a lot less. It takes no extra time, therefore there is no valid
excuse for not doing it except for not having enough desire. Not having enough desire is the most
valid rationalization of all, however, most people's egos prevent them from acknowledging it.

I digress. In a way, getting light is harder because you have to overcome a primordial urge. Humans,
like any other animal, instinctively desire to consume more than they need so they can build up fat
stores to withstand periods of drought and famine. That's a problem now because there is plenty of
food in America and drought and the accompanying famine have been overcome by irrigation. Modern
society has evolved many times faster than the human body, hence our health problems due to
overconsumption.

BTW, I was a Fattie Racer (and rationalized it) for 9 years. It wasn't until the last 2 years that I
tried to race at a light weight and discovered how effective it is.

"Maxwell Laycock" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Kurgan Gringioni" <[email hidden]> wrote in

message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

"Mike S." <mikeshaw2@coxDOTnet> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I prefer the "train your strengths" approach to riding.

I used to do that. Training for sprints was fun because I was as fast as almost anyone in
sprints right from the start. Thing is, I hit a plateau until I started emphasizing weaknesses.

Lets get this straight mister "Rode my track bike once". You were just better than the other lame
local riders.

Max

I raced my track bike for 5+ years.

And yes, I was just better than most of the other lamos.

"Kurgan Gringioni" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Maxwell Laycock" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Kurgan Gringioni" <[email hidden]> wrote in

message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

"Mike S." <mikeshaw2@coxDOTnet> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...
>
> I prefer the "train your strengths" approach to riding.

I used to do that. Training for sprints was fun because I was as fast

as

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

almost anyone in sprints right from the start. Thing is, I hit a

plateau

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

until I started emphasizing weaknesses.

Lets get this straight mister "Rode my track bike once". You were just better than the other
lame local riders.

Max

I raced my track bike for 5+ years.

And yes, I was just better than most of the other lamos.

He was faster than I was at the time. Now that ole Henry ain't training, I'd bet that the freds on
the coast could whup his ass.

I'd still like to see him and a few other riders c'mon down to the track like they did a few years
ago. MUCH better racing then!

"Kurgan Gringioni" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

"Mike S." <mikeshaw2@coxDOTnet> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I prefer the "train your strengths" approach to riding.

I used to do that. Training for sprints was fun because I was as fast as almost anyone in sprints
right from the start. Thing is, I hit a plateau until I started emphasizing weaknesses.

Lets get this straight mister "Rode my track bike once". You were just better than the other lame
local riders.

Max

...and happy that I don't HAVE to spend 4-8 hours/day on my bike like the pro/1/2s to be
competitive!

"Kurgan Gringioni" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Mike S." <mikeshaw2@coxDOTnet> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Yeah, but if you're a 4, or even a 3 you're better off training

strengths.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

When you're a pro/1/2 then I'd say you really have to start worrying

about

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

things like that.

That's precisely why you're a 4 or a 3.

Kurgan Gringioni said:

"Raptor" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I'm a pansy when it comes to riding in cold weather, so what should I try if my weakness is
climbing?

Go on a diet and lose weight.

Climbing ability is dictated by the power/weight ratio. Increasing power isn't easy, but losing
weight is.

It's not a popular answer since it involves discipline (giving up your Big Macs) in a way that
isn't the most fun, however, it is the most effective.

Thanks everyone for the helpful advice. I never know what to expect when I post to rbr. :-)

I can diet, I think. But my biggest problem is worrying about continuing to train/workout. Having
been athletic for my whole life, I think of food mainly as fuel for activity. (Not entirely true - I
like good food like anyone else.) What to say to myself when I worry about running out of energy,
leading to shorter workouts or worse, injury either minor or severe?

Looking forward to warm weather when my natural desire to ride leads to that nice skinny waist.

--
--
Lynn Wallace xmission.com~lawallOpen ↗ "I'm not proud. We really haven't done everything we
could to protect our customers. Our products just aren't engineered for security." --Microsoft VP in
charge of Windows OS Development, Brian Valentine.

Kurgan Gringioni said:

BTW, I was a Fattie Racer (and rationalized it) for 9 years. It wasn't until the last 2 years that
I tried to race at a light weight and discovered how effective it is.

Are there any studies showing a decreased development rate of the aerobic energy system in a
hypocaloric state?

In other words will dieting slow my training progress down (excepting muscle loss)?

--
Scott Johnson "Always with the excuses for small legs. People like you are why they only open the
top half of caskets." -Tommy Bowen

Kurgan Gringioni <[email hidden]> wrote:
: aren't good at it relative to your peers. The upside is that you become a much better rider and
: win more races. It's far more satisfying, IMO, to win a race using a part of your repertoire that
: used to be a weakness. It means that you've transformed yourself and that accomplishment
: transcends merely emphasizing one's natural talent.

Yup this can be very satisfying. You can find a really new side in yourself. I think most things I
do in sports is for the joy of overcoming past weakness. I'm the kind of geeky person who spends the
time with books and computers, and at school I was rather poor in any sport that requires motor
skills. So I didn't consider myself very sporty, until I took up snowboarding...

You can always learn to enjoy new things. I didn't think weight lifting is for me, but some 4 months
ago I took up resistance training, in a quest to become a faster cyclist 🙂 It gives a new feeling
to my body! I have come to suspect that many people overemphasize their genetic limitations...

Funnily enough I've gained weight, which has never happened before. Before I started resistance
training, I was 61-64 kg, now 66-70 kg. Though it probably has more to do with cycling books'
motherly advice to "fuel for training and recovery" and eat extra desserts for ample energy supply.

I'm not worried about excess muscle mass - it helps uphill too! Then again, I mostly do flats, and
my cycling is not primarily race-oriented.

--
Risto Varanka | helsinki.fi~rvarankaOpen ↗ varis at no spam please iki fi

I think it is a friend of Steve. It is very obvious.

"heather locklearson" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"warren" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>, Kurgan Gringioni

Quoted message said:

"Mike S." <mikeshaw2@coxDOTnet> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...
>
> I prefer the "train your strengths" approach to riding.

I used to do that. Training for sprints was fun because I was as fast

as

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

almost anyone in sprints right from the start. Thing is, I hit a

plateau

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

until I started emphasizing weaknesses.

The downside of training weaknesses is that it's not as fun because

you

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

aren't good at it relative to your peers. The upside is that you

become

Quoted message said:

a

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

much better rider and win more races. It's far more satisfying, IMO,

to

Quoted message said:

win

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

a race using a part of your repertoire that used to be a weakness. It

means

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

that you've transformed yourself and that accomplishment transcends

merely

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

emphasizing one's natural talent.

A few professional riders who have managed this are Sean Kelly

(sprinter

Quoted message said:

to

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Classics God and Vuelta winner), Johan Museeuw (sprinter to Classics

God),

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Djamolodine Abdujaporov (sprinter to winning TdF stage which ended on Category 3 climb), Lance
Armstrong (power climber/one-day rider to TdF winner) and Laurent Jalabert (sprinter to Vuelta
winner, stage race GC specialist, World TT champion, UCI #1 ranking).

Wow! An intelligent, thoughtful response to a question. Maybe this is somebody pretending to be
Kurgan.

my guess is either steve taylor or tom kunich. those guys know everything about bike racing.

heather