Training adaptations

On Mar 3, 11:23 am, "[email hidden]"

Quoted message said:

So I should be
concentrating on long rides, and not worrying about tiny marginal
improvements from interval and other intense training which come at
the expense of more recovery time

Does that make sense?

Sounds like you're looking for a sweet spot where you can raise your
threshold without incurring excessive recovery.

Quoted message said:

On Mar 3, 11:23 am, "[email hidden]"

Quoted message said:

So I should be
concentrating on long rides, and not worrying about tiny marginal
improvements from interval and other intense training which come at
the expense of more recovery time

Quoted message said:

Does that make sense?

Sounds like you're looking for a sweet spot where you can raise your
threshold without incurring excessive recovery.

In a way, yes. I am concerned that intense training types will
necessitate recovery time that precludes training which develops
capillaries and mitochondria.

In other words, given that my VO2max is probably peaked, will 10-15
hours per week of easy riding help my performance more than 6-8 hours
with a larger portion being intense? I have 3-4 rides per week I can
count on having time for.

Joseph

On Mar 3, 12:37 pm, "[email hidden]"

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Sounds like you're looking for a sweet spot where you can raise your
threshold without incurring excessive recovery.

In a way, yes. I am concerned that intense training types will
necessitate recovery time that precludes training which develops
capillaries and mitochondria.

In other words, given that my VO2max is probably peaked, will 10-15
hours per week of easy riding help my performance more than 6-8 hours
with a larger portion being intense? I have 3-4 rides per week I can
count on having time for.

Joseph

http://www.fascatcoaching.com/sweetspot.html

Quoted message said:

On Mar 3, 12:37 pm, "[email hidden]"

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Sounds like you're looking for a sweet spot where you can raise your
threshold without incurring excessive recovery.

In a way, yes. I am concerned that intense training types will
necessitate recovery time that precludes training which develops
capillaries and mitochondria.

In other words, given that my VO2max is probably peaked, will 10-15
hours per week of easy riding help my performance more than 6-8 hours
with a larger portion being intense? I have 3-4 rides per week I can
count on having time for.

Joseph

http://www.fascatcoaching.com/sweetspot.html

If your training will allow capillary growth and mitochondrial growth,
and if you are still losing weight, why do you think your VO2 max won't
improve?

Steve

--
Mark & Steven Bornfeld DDS
http://www.dentaltwins.com
Brooklyn, NY
718-258-5001

Quoted message said:

I am working on a training plan for this season.

Step 1: get an unambitious part-time job.
Step 2: make the acquaintance of several good, but attractive, woman riders.
Step 3: no more time for alibis; motive and opportunity say you will now
ride for 2.5h/day, 6d/week. No max efforts, just 2 abreast (har) or them
in your wheel and you pacing yourself.
Step 4: three months into the program, it's late spring now, dump your
girlfriends but not your girlfriend (she'll be buying you new wheels
later on) and tack on to the fastest group you can find.
Step 5: do two training rides a week all through the summer. Don't get
dropped until you puke, then hold on for another mile. Don't try, do!
Use other days for recovery rides by yourself, 2 short (1.5-2h), 3 long
(3h). This time, you won't need slower riders to hold you back... Call
in sick at work once a week to get extra bed rest.
Step 6: from early autumn, enter two races a week, both on the weekend.
Each week, pick one beforehand that you will target, where you want to
win. The other one, finish. ALWAYS finish.
Step 7: when the road racing ends, with your new-found rhythm, survive
the winter on an mtb or cx bike. LiveDRUNK often but not regularly. Do
some spin classes to scout new talent for the spring rides.

Next January, email our offices for the second year program.

<[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Hi All,

I am working on a training plan for this season. I'm not into
following a detailed plan, so I'm more working on a training guide.

I'm losing weight and before any of this year's events I'll be down to
about 92kg. That will put my VO2max at around 64 ml/kg/min which I
have no reason to think can be greatly improved upon and I have (for
current needs) more than enough sprint and short burst stomping power.
Even now, up short hills I cannot be dropped by anyone I race with.

The problems come of course when the effort is sustained. When over
threshold, I of course build up lactate and get dropped.

This suggests to me that what I need to improve my results is to grow
more capillaries, and more mitochondria to up my LT. So I should be
concentrating on long rides, and not worrying about tiny marginal
improvements from interval and other intense training which come at
the expense of more recovery time and thus less time spent building
better local muscular O2 delivery.

Does that make sense?

Your biggest opportunity for improvement is to get you weight down below
180 lb.

Phil H

In article <[email hidden]>,

Ted van de Weteringe said:

Quoted message said:

I am working on a training plan for this season.

Step 1: get an unambitious part-time job.
Step 2: make the acquaintance of several good, but attractive, woman riders.
Step 3: no more time for alibis; motive and opportunity say you will now
ride for 2.5h/day, 6d/week. No max efforts, just 2 abreast (har) or them
in your wheel and you pacing yourself.
Step 4: three months into the program, it's late spring now, dump your
girlfriends but not your girlfriend (she'll be buying you new wheels
later on) and tack on to the fastest group you can find.
Step 5: do two training rides a week all through the summer. Don't get
dropped until you puke, then hold on for another mile. Don't try, do!
Use other days for recovery rides by yourself, 2 short (1.5-2h), 3 long
(3h). This time, you won't need slower riders to hold you back... Call
in sick at work once a week to get extra bed rest.
Step 6: from early autumn, enter two races a week, both on the weekend.
Each week, pick one beforehand that you will target, where you want to
win. The other one, finish. ALWAYS finish.
Step 7: when the road racing ends, with your new-found rhythm, survive
the winter on an mtb or cx bike. LiveDRUNK often but not regularly. Do
some spin classes to scout new talent for the spring rides.

Next January, email our offices for the second year program.

LIVEDRUNK (please note capitalization) would like to see a revised
program with more LIVEDRINKING in Steps 1 through 6.

--
Ryan Cousineau [email hidden] http://www.wiredcola.com/
"In other newsgroups, they killfile trolls."
"In rec.bicycles.racing, we coach them."

Phil Holman' piholmanc@yourservice said:

<[email hidden]> wrote in message

news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Hi All,

Quoted message said:

I am working on a training plan for this season. I'm not into
following a detailed plan, so I'm more working on a training guide.

Quoted message said:

I'm losing weight and before any of this year's events I'll be down to
about 92kg. That will put my VO2max at around 64 ml/kg/min which I
have no reason to think can be greatly improved upon and I have (for
current needs) more than enough sprint and short burst stomping power.
Even now, up short hills I cannot be dropped by anyone I race with.

Quoted message said:

The problems come of course when the effort is sustained. When over
threshold, I of course build up lactate and get dropped.

Quoted message said:

This suggests to me that what I need to improve my results is to grow
more capillaries, and more mitochondria to up my LT. So I should be
concentrating on long rides, and not worrying about tiny marginal
improvements from interval and other intense training which come at
the expense of more recovery time and thus less time spent building
better local muscular O2 delivery.

Quoted message said:

Does that make sense?

Your biggest opportunity for improvement is to get you weight down below
180 lb.

Phil H

Fortunately I don't suffer from BIID. So 195 or so is absolute
minimum.

Joseph

Mark & Steven Bornfeld said:

Quoted message said:

On Mar 3, 12:37 pm, "[email hidden]"

Quoted message said:

> Sounds like you're looking for a sweet spot where you can raise your
> threshold without incurring excessive recovery.
In a way, yes. I am concerned that intense training types will
necessitate recovery time that precludes training which develops
capillaries and mitochondria.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

In other words, given that my VO2max is probably peaked, will 10-15
hours per week of easy riding help my performance more than 6-8 hours
with a larger portion being intense? I have 3-4 rides per week I can
count on having time for.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Joseph

Quoted message said:

http://www.fascatcoaching.com/sweetspot.html

If your training will allow capillary growth and mitochondrial growth,
and if you are still losing weight, why do you think your VO2 max won't
improve?

Steve

--
Mark & Steven Bornfeld DDShttp://www.dentaltwins.com
Brooklyn, NY
718-258-5001

I presume it is maxed out because I've been riding at times hard for a
few years now, and it is already pretty high.

It will improve slightly as my weight goes down, but mostly I figure
it doesn't even have to improve as I already have enough max power. I
need sustainable power from raising my LT as a percentage of max.

Joseph

Ted van de Weteringe said:

Quoted message said:

I am working on a training plan for this season.

Step 1: get an unambitious part-time job.
Step 2: make the acquaintance of several good, but attractive, woman riders.
Step 3: no more time for alibis; motive and opportunity say you will now
ride for 2.5h/day, 6d/week. No max efforts, just 2 abreast (har) or them
in your wheel and you pacing yourself.
Step 4: three months into the program, it's late spring now, dump your
girlfriends but not your girlfriend (she'll be buying you new wheels
later on) and tack on to the fastest group you can find.
Step 5: do two training rides a week all through the summer. Don't get
dropped until you puke, then hold on for another mile. Don't try, do!
Use other days for recovery rides by yourself, 2 short (1.5-2h), 3 long
(3h). This time, you won't need slower riders to hold you back... Call
in sick at work once a week to get extra bed rest.
Step 6: from early autumn, enter two races a week, both on the weekend.
Each week, pick one beforehand that you will target, where you want to
win. The other one, finish. ALWAYS finish.
Step 7: when the road racing ends, with your new-found rhythm, survive
the winter on an mtb or cx bike. LiveDRUNK often but not regularly. Do
some spin classes to scout new talent for the spring rides.

Next January, email our offices for the second year program.

But I'm gay.

Joseph

Quoted message said:

On Mar 3, 12:37 pm, "[email hidden]"

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Sounds like you're looking for a sweet spot where you can raise your
threshold without incurring excessive recovery.

Quoted message said:

In a way, yes. I am concerned that intense training types will
necessitate recovery time that precludes training which develops
capillaries and mitochondria.

Quoted message said:

In other words, given that my VO2max is probably peaked, will 10-15
hours per week of easy riding help my performance more than 6-8 hours
with a larger portion being intense? I have 3-4 rides per week I can
count on having time for.

Quoted message said:

Joseph

http://www.fascatcoaching.com/sweetspot.html

There we go! I guess Eddy Merckx was right.

Joseph

Ted van de Weteringe said:

Step 1: get an unambitious part-time job. Step 2: make the acquaintance of
several good, but attractive, woman riders. Step 3: no more time for
alibis; motive and opportunity say you will now ride for 2.5h/day,
6d/week. No max efforts, just 2 abreast (har) or them in your wheel and
you pacing yourself. Step 4: three months into the program, it's late
spring now, dump your girlfriends but not your girlfriend (she'll be
buying you new wheels later on) and tack on to the fastest group you can
find. Step 5: do two training rides a week all through the summer. Don't
get dropped until you puke, then hold on for another mile. Don't try, do!
Use other days for recovery rides by yourself, 2 short (1.5-2h), 3 long
(3h). This time, you won't need slower riders to hold you back... Call in
sick at work once a week to get extra bed rest. Step 6: from early autumn,
enter two races a week, both on the weekend. Each week, pick one
beforehand that you will target, where you want to win. The other one,
finish. ALWAYS finish. Step 7: when the road racing ends, with your
new-found rhythm, survive the winter on an mtb or cx bike. LiveDRUNK often
but not regularly. Do some spin classes to scout new talent for the spring
rides.

What about moving to a high altitude location or persuading your
girlfriends to sleep in an altitude tent ?

Quoted message said:

This suggests to me that what I need to improve my results is to grow more
capillaries, and more mitochondria to up my LT. So I should be
concentrating on long rides, and not worrying about tiny marginal
improvements from interval and other intense training which come at the
expense of more recovery time and thus less time spent building better
local muscular O2 delivery.

Perhaps specific types of interval training is better suited to building
mitochondria. Apparently mitochondria growth can occur in interval
training in response to lactic acid production:
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2006/04/060420235214.htm

If the Internet was functioning on Vulcan our CSO would probably be able
to comment.

Quoted message said:

Mark & Steven Bornfeld said:

Quoted message said:

On Mar 3, 12:37 pm, "[email hidden]"
>> Sounds like you're looking for a sweet spot where you can raise your
>> threshold without incurring excessive recovery.
> In a way, yes. I am concerned that intense training types will
> necessitate recovery time that precludes training which develops
> capillaries and mitochondria.
> In other words, given that my VO2max is probably peaked, will 10-15
> hours per week of easy riding help my performance more than 6-8 hours
> with a larger portion being intense? I have 3-4 rides per week I can
> count on having time for.
> Joseph
http://www.fascatcoaching.com/sweetspot.html

If your training will allow capillary growth and mitochondrial growth,
and if you are still losing weight, why do you think your VO2 max won't
improve?

Steve

--
Mark & Steven Bornfeld DDShttp://www.dentaltwins.com
Brooklyn, NY
718-258-5001

I presume it is maxed out because I've been riding at times hard for a
few years now, and it is already pretty high.

It will improve slightly as my weight goes down, but mostly I figure
it doesn't even have to improve as I already have enough max power. I
need sustainable power from raising my LT as a percentage of max.

Joseph

I figure (now, remember--I haven't studied biochem in 35 years), that
your VO2 max is figured per kg mass, so there should be direct
proportionality (or very close, since fat doesn't use much oxygen unless
it is being metabolized). Also, increasing those mitochondria and those
ribosomes will increase oxidative phosphorylation. Either way you win.
Of course, I don't know what your training volume is now. But the old
conventional wisdom is that you raise your LT by doing those damned
intervals. Does recent research refute that?

Steve

On Mar 4, 2:33 pm, Steven Bornfeld <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Mark & Steven Bornfeld said:

[email hidden] wrote:
> On Mar 3, 12:37 pm, "[email hidden]"
>>> Sounds like you're looking for a sweet spot where you can raise your
>>> threshold without incurring excessive recovery.
>> In a way, yes. I am concerned that intense training types will
>> necessitate recovery time that precludes training which develops
>> capillaries and mitochondria.
>> In other words, given that my VO2max is probably peaked, will 10-15
>> hours per week of easy riding help my performance more than 6-8 hours
>> with a larger portion being intense? I have 3-4 rides per week I can
>> count on having time for.
>> Joseph
>http://www.fascatcoaching.com/sweetspot.html
        If your training will allow capillary growth and mitochondrial growth,
and if you are still losing weight, why do you think your VO2 max won't
improve?

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Steve

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

--
Mark & Steven Bornfeld DDShttp://www.dentaltwins.com
Brooklyn, NY
718-258-5001

Quoted message said:

I presume it is maxed out because I've been riding at times hard for a
few years now, and it is already pretty high.

Quoted message said:

It will improve slightly as my weight goes down, but mostly I figure
it doesn't even have to improve as I already have enough max power. I
need sustainable power from raising my LT as a percentage of max.

Quoted message said:

Joseph

I figure (now, remember--I haven't studied biochem in 35 years), that
your VO2 max is figured per kg mass, so there should be direct
proportionality (or very close, since fat doesn't use much oxygen unless
it is being metabolized).  Also, increasing those mitochondria and those
ribosomes will increase oxidative phosphorylation.  Either way you win.
  Of course, I don't know what your training volume is now.  But the old
conventional wisdom is that you raise your LT by doing those damned
intervals.  Does recent research refute that?

Steve

My 64 figure is a projected value based on my target weight which is
realistic. I seem to have enough capacity to produce high power for
short periods, so my total capacity to process O2 does not need to
increase. But I do need to increase how much O2 I can process
comfortably and with better fat metabolism.

I've been working mostly off the info here:

http://home.hia.no/~stephens/timecors.htm

Joseph

On Mar 3, 1:14 pm, Ted van de Weteringe <[email hidden]>
wrote:

Let's cut out the fluff and make it simple:

Quoted message said:

Step 1: get an unambitious part-time job.

Step 1: get a guvmint job.

(Because it is less than unambitious.)

Quoted message said:

Step 5: do two training rides a week all through the summer. Don't get
dropped until you puke, then hold on for another mile. Don't try, do!

Fine, as-is, except maybe three rides.

Aux: Any other doodles you can fit in, but that should happen
naturally as a guvmint employee.

email hidden said:

On Mar 3, 10:14 pm, Ted van de Weteringe

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I am working on a training plan for this season.

Quoted message said:

Step 1: get an unambitious part-time job.
Step 2: make the acquaintance of several good, but attractive, woman riders.
Step 3: no more time for alibis; motive and opportunity say you will now
ride for 2.5h/day, 6d/week. No max efforts, just 2 abreast (har) or them
in your wheel and you pacing yourself.
Step 4: three months into the program, it's late spring now, dump your
girlfriends but not your girlfriend (she'll be buying you new wheels
later on) and tack on to the fastest group you can find.
Step 5: do two training rides a week all through the summer. Don't get
dropped until you puke, then hold on for another mile. Don't try, do!
Use other days for recovery rides by yourself, 2 short (1.5-2h), 3 long
(3h). This time, you won't need slower riders to hold you back... Call
in sick at work once a week to get extra bed rest.
Step 6: from early autumn, enter two races a week, both on the weekend.
Each week, pick one beforehand that you will target, where you want to
win. The other one, finish. ALWAYS finish.
Step 7: when the road racing ends, with your new-found rhythm, survive
the winter on an mtb or cx bike. LiveDRUNK often but not regularly. Do
some spin classes to scout new talent for the spring rides.

Quoted message said:

Next January, email our offices for the second year program.

But I'm gay.

Then replace girlfriend with "liberal."

Quoted message said:

On Mar 3, 12:37 pm, "[email hidden]"

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Sounds like you're looking for a sweet spot where you can raise your
threshold without incurring excessive recovery.

In a way, yes. I am concerned that intense training types will
necessitate recovery time that precludes training which develops
capillaries and mitochondria.

In other words, given that my VO2max is probably peaked, will 10-15
hours per week of easy riding help my performance more than 6-8 hours
with a larger portion being intense? I have 3-4 rides per week I can
count on having time for.

Joseph

http://www.fascatcoaching.com/sweetspot.html

Do they mean anaerobic threshold by "threshold power"?

Steve

--
Mark & Steven Bornfeld DDS
http://www.dentaltwins.com
Brooklyn, NY
718-258-5001

Steven Bornfeld said:

Of course, I don't know what your training volume is now. But the old
conventional wisdom is that you raise your LT by doing those damned
intervals. Does recent research refute that?

Dumbass,
In the Carmichael tradition that should read DamnedIntervals(tm).