training for fat loss

OzCableguy said:

Ok, Mountain Biking seems to be winning over Road Biking these days but I
still alternate with a road ride on slicks every other day to keep it varied
and allow for recovery of my different energy systems. For the road ride I
have a choice of a long, fairly flat course of about an hour, or a short,
hilly course that takes about 45 mins. Now, considering bush rides are very
much an interval style with short bursts of all out effort followed by
lesser effort, should I choose the longer and flatter course on my road days
and use it as more of a recovery ride or am I going to benefit more (in
terms of reducing body fat %) with the short, hilly course going as hard as
I can?

Notes: In addition to those rides I also do 1 hr MTB rides twice during the
week and usually 2 x 2-3hr rides on weekends, and I do weight training 4
times a week. This is about fat loss for me rather than winning TDF or
anything like that. ie Excessive lean body mass is ok because it helps my
metabolic rate, and with a propensity towards emotional overeating I need
every bit of help I can get.

--www.ozcableguy.comwww.oztechnologies.com

has anyone mentioned your resemblance to "Kenny"??

Karl aka Stomper

OzCableguy said:

Ok, Mountain Biking seems to be winning over Road Biking these days but I
still alternate with a road ride on slicks every other day to keep it varied
and allow for recovery of my different energy systems. For the road ride I
have a choice of a long, fairly flat course of about an hour, or a short,
hilly course that takes about 45 mins. Now, considering bush rides are very
much an interval style with short bursts of all out effort followed by
lesser effort, should I choose the longer and flatter course on my road days
and use it as more of a recovery ride or am I going to benefit more (in
terms of reducing body fat %) with the short, hilly course going as hard as
I can?

I would suggest using the road days as recovery. You'll probably gain
more by being fresher for the MTB rides, and are less likely to overdo
it and burn out. Little steps become giant strides, but only if you
keep making those little steps.

Do you have a training plan and some set, realistic goals?

"OzCableguy" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

<snip>

This is about fat loss for me rather than winning TDF or

Quoted message said:

anything like that. ie Excessive lean body mass is ok because it helps my
metabolic rate, and with a propensity towards emotional overeating I need
every bit of help I can get.

--

Just stick with it, fatty. Remember, it's as simple as burning more calories
than you're shoving in your pie hole.

OzCableguy said:

... and I do weight training 4
times a week. This is about fat loss for me rather than winning TDF or
anything like that. ie Excessive lean body mass is ok because it helps my
metabolic rate, and with a propensity towards emotional overeating I need
every bit of help I can get.

Not many cyclists also do weight training - probably only trackies and
serious sprinters, and then only legs. (Cycling seems to keep the
upper body toned ... but in a puny sort of way that becomes evident
when I go surfing). Does your rationale for weight training really add
up? If you are doing a lot of riding, your metabolic rate would be
ticking over fairly well when at rest, without the extra bulk from
weights. Maybe the bulk drives you to eat a bit more. Maybe if you
quit the weights, you would lose weight and find your clothes hang a
bit looser.

Donga

"Donga" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

OzCableguy said:

... and I do weight training 4
times a week. This is about fat loss for me rather than winning TDF or
anything like that. ie Excessive lean body mass is ok because it helps

my

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

metabolic rate, and with a propensity towards emotional overeating I

need

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

every bit of help I can get.

Not many cyclists also do weight training - probably only trackies and
serious sprinters, and then only legs. (Cycling seems to keep the
upper body toned ... but in a puny sort of way that becomes evident
when I go surfing). Does your rationale for weight training really add
up? If you are doing a lot of riding, your metabolic rate would be
ticking over fairly well when at rest, without the extra bulk from
weights. Maybe the bulk drives you to eat a bit more. Maybe if you
quit the weights, you would lose weight and find your clothes hang a
bit looser.

Donga

lean muscle mass helps burn fat and having a bit more only makes him a
little more heavy which helps resistance in cycling as well. If you want to
lose weight as a goal it should include weight training if you are cyclist
or not. After you have lost weight you can cut it out then.

Donga said:

OzCableguy said:

... and I do weight training 4
times a week. This is about fat loss for me rather than winning TDF or
anything like that. ie Excessive lean body mass is ok because it helps my
metabolic rate, and with a propensity towards emotional overeating I need
every bit of help I can get.

Not many cyclists also do weight training - probably only trackies and
serious sprinters, and then only legs. (Cycling seems to keep the
upper body toned ... but in a puny sort of way that becomes evident
when I go surfing). Does your rationale for weight training really add
up? If you are doing a lot of riding, your metabolic rate would be
ticking over fairly well when at rest, without the extra bulk from
weights. Maybe the bulk drives you to eat a bit more. Maybe if you
quit the weights, you would lose weight and find your clothes hang a
bit looser.

It depends, most road riding isn't that good for your upper body and a
certain amount of cross training (eg weights, swimming, rock climbing,
kayaking etc) is of value. and weights doesn't necessarily build bulk
(myth, begone!). He's doing MTB riding a lot, which can benefit more
from improved upper body strength than most road riders would
appreciate, too.

In aus.bicycle on Mon, 11 Jun 2007 16:44:47 -0700

Donga said:

upper body toned ... but in a puny sort of way that becomes evident
when I go surfing). Does your rationale for weight training really add
up? If you are doing a lot of riding, your metabolic rate would be
ticking over fairly well when at rest, without the extra bulk from
weights. Maybe the bulk drives you to eat a bit more. Maybe if you
quit the weights, you would lose weight and find your clothes hang a
bit looser.

My understanding is that lean muscle mass burns more energy just
sitting there looking butch.

It also weighs more than the same volume of fat, so a muscular dude is
going to be carting more about when cycling which is why the pros are
all lean wiry rather than muscular.

Zebee

"Bleve" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I would suggest using the road days as recovery. You'll probably gain
more by being fresher for the MTB rides, and are less likely to overdo
it and burn out. Little steps become giant strides, but only if you
keep making those little steps.

I think I answered my own question. After an MTB ride Sunday, I did the
short, hard road course yesterday and this morning when I went bush again I
had nothing in my legs at all. Using the road ride as a spin/recovery
session has been working much better. In terms of calory consumption there's
probably not much difference between the 2 rides and I think I'd benefit
more from the recovery time than trying to push my muscles so hard every
day.

Quoted message said:

Do you have a training plan and some set, realistic goals?

Interesting question... I do have specific long term and daily goals. eg
Long term: Get body fat under 10%, get average time over set course down to
x.xx by xx/xx/xx. Short term: Maintain min of 85 rpm in gear x up this hill,
sprint to next pole/tree etc, survive this evening without eating anything
other than set portion and so on. I basically set goals for 90 day blocks
and record progress, making alterations if necessary as I go.
I'm guessing a "training plan" is a bit more involved than that?

--
www.ozcableguy.com
www.oztechnologies.com

Zebee Johnstone said:

My understanding is that lean muscle mass burns more energy just
sitting there looking butch.

It also weighs more than the same volume of fat, so a muscular dude is
going to be carting more about when cycling which is why the pros are
all lean wiry rather than muscular.
Zebee

That depends on who you are looking at, some of those Pro's are not small or lean and wiry by any stretch of the imagination. Plus you don't see many pro cyclists who have fat on them instead of lean muscle, its more efficient to have it than fat. And like Bleve mentioned doing weights does not nessacerily mean you stack on muscles its all in the weight program you undertake, it is one of the best things you can do for losing fat and strengthening bones which can be a very handy thing to have when doing a lot of Mountain biking! 🙂

I would be very surprised if many of those pro's didn't undertake weight training of some sort on a semi-regular basis.

On Jun 12, 10:33 am, "OzCableguy" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

"Bleve" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I would suggest using the road days as recovery. You'll probably gain
more by being fresher for the MTB rides, and are less likely to overdo
it and burn out. Little steps become giant strides, but only if you
keep making those little steps.

I think I answered my own question. After an MTB ride Sunday, I did the
short, hard road course yesterday and this morning when I went bush again I
had nothing in my legs at all. Using the road ride as a spin/recovery
session has been working much better. In terms of calory consumption there's
probably not much difference between the 2 rides and I think I'd benefit
more from the recovery time than trying to push my muscles so hard every
day.

Quoted message said:

Do you have a training plan and some set, realistic goals?

Interesting question... I do have specific long term and daily goals. eg
Long term: Get body fat under 10%, get average time over set course down to
x.xx by xx/xx/xx. Short term: Maintain min of 85 rpm in gear x up this hill,
sprint to next pole/tree etc, survive this evening without eating anything
other than set portion and so on. I basically set goals for 90 day blocks
and record progress, making alterations if necessary as I go.
I'm guessing a "training plan" is a bit more involved than that?

Not necessarily, it depends on what works for you. If you have goals,
and you can break the goals down into steps you need to take to get to
them, how you structure your plan is really your call. I'd go into
more detail for a coaching client, but that doesn't mean that what you
have isn't right for you.

OzCableguy said:

"Bleve" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I would suggest using the road days as recovery. You'll probably gain
more by being fresher for the MTB rides, and are less likely to overdo
it and burn out. Little steps become giant strides, but only if you
keep making those little steps.

I think I answered my own question. After an MTB ride Sunday, I did the
short, hard road course yesterday and this morning when I went bush again I
had nothing in my legs at all. Using the road ride as a spin/recovery
session has been working much better. In terms of calory consumption there's
probably not much difference between the 2 rides and I think I'd benefit
more from the recovery time than trying to push my muscles so hard every
day.

Quoted message said:

Do you have a training plan and some set, realistic goals?

Interesting question... I do have specific long term and daily goals. eg
Long term: Get body fat under 10%, get average time over set course down to
x.xx by xx/xx/xx. Short term: Maintain min of 85 rpm in gear x up this hill,
sprint to next pole/tree etc, survive this evening without eating anything
other than set portion and so on. I basically set goals for 90 day blocks
and record progress, making alterations if necessary as I go.
I'm guessing a "training plan" is a bit more involved than that?

--
www.ozcableguy.com
www.oztechnologies.com

It's a very common thing for cyclists to do ie go hard every ride, instead of progressively overloading then recover, then progressively overload some more then recover some more. Eventually you blow up or burn out.

Having goals keeps you on track and allows you to measure success, so long as your goals are actually measurable, which yours are. A training plan maps out workouts (including recovery) over a period of time and may be as straightforward as yours ie mtb Sunday, recover on the road for 60 min Monday etc, or more complex, requiring HR/wattage for designated periods of time, specified recovery times etc. You don't need such a detailed training plan if you just want to lose wait and get a bit fitter. But if you want to race... it helps!

"warrwych" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

It's a very common thing for cyclists to do ie go hard every ride,
instead of progressively overloading then recover, then progressively
overload some more then recover some more. Eventually you blow up or
burn out.

Actually, now that you say that, recovery is one aspect that I seem to have
included purely by accident. Your advice here will definitely help me
structure an overload + recovery structure to my cycling which I'd
previously only really allowed for in my weight training. Cheers!

--
www.ozcableguy.com
www.oztechnologies.com

Bleve said:

It depends, most road riding isn't that good for your upper body and a
certain amount of cross training (eg weights, swimming, rock climbing,
kayaking etc) is of value.

Since I started climbing again my cycling performance has declined. I'm
sure this has nothing to do with the lack of cycling in favour of going
climbing.

It's only fair though, since cycling started as "cross-training" for
climbing about 8 years ago.

--
Dave Hughes | [email hidden]
We are, in fact, at the cutting edge of cocking about
- Richard Hammond, Top Gear

Donga said:

Maybe if you
quit the weights, you would lose weight and find your clothes hang a
bit looser.

Donga

Sure, but how's he gonna pull chicks?

Everyone knows the natural order of life is:

1. lift big
   
2. get big
   
3. pull chicks
   

MM
(Ventoux bound in 7 sleeps and counting ... ... ...)

OzCableguy said:

"warrwych" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

It's a very common thing for cyclists to do ie go hard every ride,
instead of progressively overloading then recover, then progressively
overload some more then recover some more. Eventually you blow up or
burn out.

Actually, now that you say that, recovery is one aspect that I seem to have
included purely by accident. Your advice here will definitely help me
structure an overload + recovery structure to my cycling which I'd
previously only really allowed for in my weight training. Cheers!

--
www.ozcableguy.com
www.oztechnologies.com

If you structure your weight training with progressive overload then recovery (ie periodisation) then the exact same principles apply to cycling (and to any form of fitness training). Glad to be of help 🙂