Training for higher cadence

H said:

I recently installed a computer that tells me my cadence. Before
installing it, I had thought my cadence was at a proper "aerobic"
level-- I thought it was around 90.

I was shocked to find that my cadence is actually in the 70's.

That's not all that shocking, and is not an unusually slow cadence.

Quoted message said:

So I've started trying to bring my cadence up. I find that in many
situations where I need to rest in a lower gear that I "bounce" in my
seat. For example, if I am on a road with traffic and I don't want to
go 18+mph and I have to switch to a lower gear, I end up bouncing hard
if I maintain the high cadence. In a higher gear, I find that I don't
have this problem.

I'm not sure if bouncing is the right word, but it feels like whatever
muscles are connected to my pelvis aren't working in sync with the
rest of my legs.

So, my question is.... what is the best way to train oneself to use a
higher cadence?

Gradually. Just try to spin a _little_ faster than feels natural.

Make sure your saddle isn't too high, and that your cranks aren't too
long. Either of these conditions can make it hard to spin a rapid cadence.

Sheldon "A Little At A Time" Brown
+----------------------------------------+
| All theory, dear friend, is grey, |
| but the golden tree of actual life |
| springs ever green. --Goethe |
+----------------------------------------+
Harris Cyclery, West Newton, Massachusetts
Phone 617-244-9772 FAX 617-244-1041
http://harriscyclery.com
Hard-to-find parts shipped Worldwide
http://captainbike.com http://sheldonbrown.com

[email hidden] (H) wrote in news:a719e44.0407150948.67033b59
@posting.google.com:

Quoted message said:

So, my question is.... what is the best way to train oneself to use a
higher cadence? How do you solve the "bouncing" problem? Is it
something that I just have to suffer through until my motor skills get
it? Or is there something I can do to help this along?

Concentrate on pedalling more smoothly. Think about pedalling in triangles.
You already have the downstroke mastered. Next is pulling your foot across
the bottom ("scrape the mud off your shoes"😉, then up the back side. Once
you have mastered pedalling smoothly, increasing your cadence should be easy.

(H) said:

So, my question is.... what is the best way to train oneself to use a
higher cadence?

Ride at a slightly higher cadence than is comfortable whenever you
can.

Quoted message said:

How do you solve the "bouncing" problem?

Don't increase the cadence too much -- just go a little faster than
you're used to. You should be able to add a few rpm w/o bouncing.
Trying to add 15rpm all at once is too muc, and you will bounce. And
if you ride around bouncing you are practicing riding badly. Avoid
that.

JT

"H" <[email hidden]> schreef in bericht
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I recently installed a computer that tells me my cadence. Before
installing it, I had thought my cadence was at a proper "aerobic"
level-- I thought it was around 90.

I was shocked to find that my cadence is actually in the 70's.

So I've started trying to bring my cadence up. I find that in many
situations where I need to rest in a lower gear that I "bounce" in my
seat. For example, if I am on a road with traffic and I don't want to
go 18+mph and I have to switch to a lower gear, I end up bouncing hard
if I maintain the high cadence. In a higher gear, I find that I don't
have this problem.

I'm not sure if bouncing is the right word, but it feels like whatever
muscles are connected to my pelvis aren't working in sync with the
rest of my legs.

So, my question is.... what is the best way to train oneself to use a
higher cadence? How do you solve the "bouncing" problem? Is it
something that I just have to suffer through until my motor skills get
it? Or is there something I can do to help this along?

three things are important: practice, practice and practice.
If you stick to that, your cadence will improve.

bert
(usually riding at 100 rpm)

H <[email hidden]> wrote:
: I recently installed a computer that tells me my cadence. Before
: installing it, I had thought my cadence was at a proper "aerobic"
: level-- I thought it was around 90.

: I was shocked to find that my cadence is actually in the 70's.

: So I've started trying to bring my cadence up. I find that in many
: situations where I need to rest in a lower gear that I "bounce" in my
: seat. For example, if I am on a road with traffic and I don't want to
: go 18+mph and I have to switch to a lower gear, I end up bouncing hard
: if I maintain the high cadence. In a higher gear, I find that I don't
: have this problem.

: I'm not sure if bouncing is the right word, but it feels like whatever
: muscles are connected to my pelvis aren't working in sync with the
: rest of my legs.

: So, my question is.... what is the best way to train oneself to use a
: higher cadence? How do you solve the "bouncing" problem? Is it
: something that I just have to suffer through until my motor skills get
: it? Or is there something I can do to help this along?

I've found that sprinting downhill is a great help. I try to see how high I
can push the cadence readout before I start bouncing around. At the same
time try to practice pedaling technique as others have mentioned. In my
experience this translates to quick results at more normal cadences.

On a slightly related note, a couple weeks ago I was wandering around the
expo booths at the Coeur d'Alene IronMan event and stopped into the
PowerCranks booth where they let me try them out on a trainer. Once I got
started it felt just like ordinary cranks. Then the guy casually reaches
down and cranks up the resistance on the trainer, tripped me up for a
second, but then I was right back in rythm. Maybe it's different once
you're actually out riding, but from that brief experience they seemed to
provide zero benefit beyond what you can get just practicing with regular
cranks.

- mark

If you are feeling brave you could get\put together a fixie with a gear in
the sixties and do some of your training runs on that. With this sort of
gear ratio you get plenty of practice with cadences in the 90 to 110 range
on the flat and the skies the limit down hill!!! If you live in a hilly area
then you might want to go a little lower on the gearing for the up hill that
is. I find a fixie both forces and helps you to improve your pedalling
action at the same time as increasing your cadence

"H" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I recently installed a computer that tells me my cadence. Before
installing it, I had thought my cadence was at a proper "aerobic"
level-- I thought it was around 90.

I was shocked to find that my cadence is actually in the 70's.

So I've started trying to bring my cadence up. I find that in many
situations where I need to rest in a lower gear that I "bounce" in my
seat. For example, if I am on a road with traffic and I don't want to
go 18+mph and I have to switch to a lower gear, I end up bouncing hard
if I maintain the high cadence. In a higher gear, I find that I don't
have this problem.

I'm not sure if bouncing is the right word, but it feels like whatever
muscles are connected to my pelvis aren't working in sync with the
rest of my legs.

So, my question is.... what is the best way to train oneself to use a
higher cadence? How do you solve the "bouncing" problem? Is it
something that I just have to suffer through until my motor skills get
it? Or is there something I can do to help this along?

Graham Steer said:

If you are feeling brave you could get\put together a fixie with a gear in
the sixties and do some of your training runs on that. With this sort of
gear ratio you get plenty of practice with cadences in the 90 to 110 range
on the flat and the skies the limit down hill!!! If you live in a hilly area
then you might want to go a little lower on the gearing for the up hill that
is.

The OP has trouble with bouncing as well as trouble with high cadence.
If he uses a fixed gear, particularly in hilly terrain, he's going to
be doing a lot of bouncing. That is very bad.

JT

(H) said:

I recently installed a computer that tells me my cadence. Before
installing it, I had thought my cadence was at a proper "aerobic"
level-- I thought it was around 90.

I was shocked to find that my cadence is actually in the 70's.

So I've started trying to bring my cadence up. I find that in many
situations where I need to rest in a lower gear that I "bounce" in my
seat. For example, if I am on a road with traffic and I don't want to
go 18+mph and I have to switch to a lower gear, I end up bouncing hard
if I maintain the high cadence. In a higher gear, I find that I don't
have this problem.

I'm not sure if bouncing is the right word, but it feels like whatever
muscles are connected to my pelvis aren't working in sync with the
rest of my legs.

So, my question is.... what is the best way to train oneself to use a
higher cadence? How do you solve the "bouncing" problem? Is it
something that I just have to suffer through until my motor skills get
it? Or is there something I can do to help this along?

Rollers are also a decent way to practice this... get/borrow a pair and
do 30 minutes at 100 rpm a couple times a week... it should help.

Leave the resistance low and you won't have anything else to
concentrate on... it should be fairly straightfoward to do 110 rpm on
rollers in the not-too-distant future.

But then again, there's no MANDATE that you actually spin at 95 rpm on
the road all day... just because Lance does it, doesn't mean you have
to.

(H) said:

I recently installed a computer that tells me my cadence. Before
installing it, I had thought my cadence was at a proper "aerobic"
level-- I thought it was around 90.

I was shocked to find that my cadence is actually in the 70's.

So I've started trying to bring my cadence up. I find that in many
situations where I need to rest in a lower gear that I "bounce" in my
seat. For example, if I am on a road with traffic and I don't want to
go 18+mph and I have to switch to a lower gear, I end up bouncing hard
if I maintain the high cadence. In a higher gear, I find that I don't
have this problem.

I'm not sure if bouncing is the right word, but it feels like whatever
muscles are connected to my pelvis aren't working in sync with the
rest of my legs.

So, my question is.... what is the best way to train oneself to use a
higher cadence? How do you solve the "bouncing" problem? Is it
something that I just have to suffer through until my motor skills get
it? Or is there something I can do to help this along?

There's your problem - you're using gears. Get yourself a fixed wheel
bike geared in the 60s and you'll soon learn to pedal.

Kinky Cowboy*

*Batteries not included
May contain traces of nuts
Your milage may vary

Sheldon,

Is there an effective method for determining if your cranks are the proper length?
"Sheldon Brown" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

H said:

I recently installed a computer that tells me my cadence. Before
installing it, I had thought my cadence was at a proper "aerobic"
level-- I thought it was around 90.

I was shocked to find that my cadence is actually in the 70's.

That's not all that shocking, and is not an unusually slow cadence.

Quoted message said:

So I've started trying to bring my cadence up. I find that in many
situations where I need to rest in a lower gear that I "bounce" in my
seat. For example, if I am on a road with traffic and I don't want to
go 18+mph and I have to switch to a lower gear, I end up bouncing hard
if I maintain the high cadence. In a higher gear, I find that I don't
have this problem.

I'm not sure if bouncing is the right word, but it feels like whatever
muscles are connected to my pelvis aren't working in sync with the
rest of my legs.

So, my question is.... what is the best way to train oneself to use a
higher cadence?

Gradually. Just try to spin a _little_ faster than feels natural.

Make sure your saddle isn't too high, and that your cranks aren't too
long. Either of these conditions can make it hard to spin a rapid cadence.

Sheldon "A Little At A Time" Brown
+----------------------------------------+
| All theory, dear friend, is grey, |
| but the golden tree of actual life |
| springs ever green. --Goethe |
+----------------------------------------+
Harris Cyclery, West Newton, Massachusetts
Phone 617-244-9772 FAX 617-244-1041
http://harriscyclery.com
Hard-to-find parts shipped Worldwide
http://captainbike.com http://sheldonbrown.com

Kent Dorfman said:

Sheldon,

Is there an effective method for determining if your cranks are the
proper length?

There's some controversy on this point. For my opinion, see:

http://sheldonbrown.com/cranks

Sheldon "165-170" Brown
+---------------------------------------------------------+
| Our country is the world - our countrymen are mankind |
| --William Lloyd Garrison |
+---------------------------------------------------------+
Harris Cyclery, West Newton, Massachusetts
Phone 617-244-9772 FAX 617-244-1041
http://harriscyclery.com
Hard-to-find parts shipped Worldwide
http://captainbike.com http://sheldonbrown.com

Quoted message said:

Graham Steer said:

If you are feeling brave you could get\put together a fixie with a gear in
the sixties and do some of your training runs on that. With this sort of
gear ratio you get plenty of practice with cadences in the 90 to 110 range
on the flat and the skies the limit down hill!!! If you live in a hilly area
then you might want to go a little lower on the gearing for the up hill that
is.

John Forrest Tomlinson said:

The OP has trouble with bouncing as well as trouble with high cadence.
If he uses a fixed gear, particularly in hilly terrain, he's going to
be doing a lot of bouncing. That is very bad.

OK, but he may well develop a nice smooth spin if he gets
the direct feedback from his fixed gear adventure. I believe
it helped me over the years to become smoother and more
balanced on the bike. No harm in it, I'd say.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

Kent Dorfman said:

Sheldon,

Is there an effective method for determining if your cranks are the
proper length?

No.

Humans are both adaptable ( at every height and stature
you'll find an adherent of every imaginable crank length)
and argumentative. After many words the consensus here is
that the crank length you prefer is the right one for you.

There are no wrong answers.
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

[email hidden] (H) wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

I recently installed a computer that tells me my cadence. Before
installing it, I had thought my cadence was at a proper "aerobic"
level-- I thought it was around 90.

I was shocked to find that my cadence is actually in the 70's.

So I've started trying to bring my cadence up. I find that in many
situations where I need to rest in a lower gear that I "bounce" in my
seat. For example, if I am on a road with traffic and I don't want to
go 18+mph and I have to switch to a lower gear, I end up bouncing hard
if I maintain the high cadence. In a higher gear, I find that I don't
have this problem.

I'm not sure if bouncing is the right word, but it feels like whatever
muscles are connected to my pelvis aren't working in sync with the
rest of my legs.

So, my question is.... what is the best way to train oneself to use a
higher cadence? How do you solve the "bouncing" problem? Is it
something that I just have to suffer through until my motor skills get
it? Or is there something I can do to help this along?

-Pedalogy 101-
♥ Cyclist start to develop efficiencies at certain pedal
cadences the more time they spend at them…
♥ Generally, at lower pedal cadences, say 60 to 80 rpm, people
have the greatest efficiency (on flat terrain). Once you get above
this level, you start to lose efficiency and begin to consume more
oxygen -- and your heart rate increases.
♥ For most pedalers, this poses a great training opportunity for
improving ones aerobic development…
♥ For improvement, you need to keep moving your cadence upward
(faster) in order to keep gaining efficiency at higher cadences…
♥ Some riders may be uncomfortable at rates of 90 to 100+ rpm,
especially if most of your training is done at 70 to 75 rpm. But the
bonus is, that over time, and with consistent practice, you're going
to start improving your aerobic capacity and your efficiency at that
elevated rpm level…
♥ Not only will you become more comfortable at this pedaling
rate, you will become highly-aware of your own effort output, and be
able to manage your ride (or precision cycling class) with confidence
regardless of terrain, duration or instructor demands…

"scottt" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

[email hidden] (H) wrote in message

news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I recently installed a computer that tells me my cadence. Before
installing it, I had thought my cadence was at a proper "aerobic"
level-- I thought it was around 90.

I was shocked to find that my cadence is actually in the 70's.

So I've started trying to bring my cadence up. I find that in many
situations where I need to rest in a lower gear that I "bounce" in my
seat. For example, if I am on a road with traffic and I don't want to
go 18+mph and I have to switch to a lower gear, I end up bouncing hard
if I maintain the high cadence. In a higher gear, I find that I don't
have this problem.

I'm not sure if bouncing is the right word, but it feels like whatever
muscles are connected to my pelvis aren't working in sync with the
rest of my legs.

So, my question is.... what is the best way to train oneself to use a
higher cadence? How do you solve the "bouncing" problem? Is it
something that I just have to suffer through until my motor skills get
it? Or is there something I can do to help this along?

-Pedalogy 101-
♥ Cyclist start to develop efficiencies at certain pedal
cadences the more time they spend at them.
♥ Generally, at lower pedal cadences, say 60 to 80 rpm, people
have the greatest efficiency (on flat terrain). Once you get above
this level, you start to lose efficiency and begin to consume more
oxygen -- and your heart rate increases.
♥ For most pedalers, this poses a great training opportunity for
improving ones aerobic development.
♥ For improvement, you need to keep moving your cadence upward
(faster) in order to keep gaining efficiency at higher cadences.
♥ Some riders may be uncomfortable at rates of 90 to 100+ rpm,
especially if most of your training is done at 70 to 75 rpm. But the
bonus is, that over time, and with consistent practice, you're going
to start improving your aerobic capacity and your efficiency at that
elevated rpm level.
♥ Not only will you become more comfortable at this pedaling
rate, you will become highly-aware of your own effort output, and be
able to manage your ride (or precision cycling class) with confidence
regardless of terrain, duration or instructor demands.

Great points, and all true.
Additionally, your increased leg speed will enable improvements in
accelerations and sprinting.

[email hidden] (H) wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

I recently installed a computer that tells me my cadence. Before
installing it, I had thought my cadence was at a proper "aerobic"
level-- I thought it was around 90.

I was shocked to find that my cadence is actually in the 70's.

So I've started trying to bring my cadence up. I find that in many
situations where I need to rest in a lower gear that I "bounce" in my
seat. For example, if I am on a road with traffic and I don't want to
go 18+mph and I have to switch to a lower gear, I end up bouncing hard
if I maintain the high cadence. In a higher gear, I find that I don't
have this problem.

I'm not sure if bouncing is the right word, but it feels like whatever
muscles are connected to my pelvis aren't working in sync with the
rest of my legs.

So, my question is.... what is the best way to train oneself to use a
higher cadence? How do you solve the "bouncing" problem? Is it
something that I just have to suffer through until my motor skills get
it? Or is there something I can do to help this along?

Don't laugh, but ya might want to try taking a few spinning classes...
I teach my students from day-one to pedal somewhere between 80-100
rpms, for a variety of reasons (excuse the long explanation below🙂. I
have ridden many times on the road with some of my students, and trust
me when I tell you that their good habits follow them. Some scary
habits do too: Like the stories they tell me that when they ride,
they(imagine)hear me barking at them as a reminder to expidite there
cadence...while staying relaxed and focused.

Keep at it, it gets easier. My buddy took a few weeks of my classes
prior to doing the Kona Ironman (which he finished🙂and he's still
thanking me. He's 50 and the world's biggest masher. But he now knows
the bennies of the pushing the r's... Good luck, hope this helps... S

-Pedalogy 101-
♥ Cyclist start to develop efficiencies at certain pedal
cadences the more time they spend at them…
♥ Generally, at lower pedal cadences, say 60 to 80 rpm, people
have the greatest efficiency (on flat terrain). Once you get above
this level, you start to lose efficiency and begin to consume more
oxygen -- and your heart rate increases.
♥ For most pedalers, this poses a great training opportunity for
improving ones aerobic development…
♥ For improvement, you need to keep moving your cadence upward
(faster) in order to keep gaining efficiency at higher cadences…
♥ Some riders may be uncomfortable at rates of 90 to 100+ rpm,
especially if most of your training is done at 70 to 75 rpm. But the
bonus is, that over time, and with consistent practice, you're going
to start improving your aerobic capacity and your efficiency at that
elevated rpm level…
♥ Not only will you become more comfortable at this pedaling
rate, you will become highly-aware of your own effort output, and be
able to manage your ride (or precision cycling class) with confidence
regardless of terrain, duration or instructor demands…

H <[email hidden]> wrote:

: So I've started trying to bring my cadence up. I find that in many
: situations where I need to rest in a lower gear that I "bounce" in my
: seat.

I'm surprised no-one else has mentioned this, but your saddle may well
be too high.

Arthur

--
Arthur Clune http://www.clune.org
"Technolibertarians make a philosophy out of a personality defect"
- Paulina Borsook

On Thu, 15 Jul 2004 22:53:19 -0500, A Muzi <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Graham Steer said:

If you are feeling brave you could get\put together a fixie with a gear in
the sixties and do some of your training runs on that. With this sort of
gear ratio you get plenty of practice with cadences in the 90 to 110 range
on the flat and the skies the limit down hill!!! If you live in a hilly area
then you might want to go a little lower on the gearing for the up hill that
is.

John Forrest Tomlinson said:

The OP has trouble with bouncing as well as trouble with high cadence.
If he uses a fixed gear, particularly in hilly terrain, he's going to
be doing a lot of bouncing. That is very bad.

OK, but he may well develop a nice smooth spin if he gets
the direct feedback from his fixed gear adventure. I believe
it helped me over the years to become smoother and more
balanced on the bike. No harm in it, I'd say.

There is harm if you bounce. Iv'e seen it. I lived with one guy and
trained a lot with another who rode fixes every winter and both still
bounce at high cadence (fixed and free). It is a fundamental aspect
of sport -- don't practive doing something badly. A fixed on flat
terrain is OK, but if a rider finds himself boncing going downhill
that is very bad.

Note also that there is some question about the benefit of riding a
fixed gear -- it's probably not the fixed nature of the gear that
provided the training/learning benefit but rather the fact that riders
using them have to learn to pedal well at high rpm that offers the
benefit.

Here is a great piece on this by a guy who has, I believe, won world
championship medals racing on the track:

http://groups.google.com/groups?q=wallace+fixed+group:rec.bicycles.*&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&group=rec.bicycles.*&c2coff=1&safe=off&selm=20001023183440.13348.00001944%40ng-md1.aol.com&rnum=3

JT

"Arthur Clune" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

H <[email hidden]> wrote:

: So I've started trying to bring my cadence up. I find that in many
: situations where I need to rest in a lower gear that I "bounce" in my
: seat.

I'm surprised no-one else has mentioned this, but your saddle may well
be too high.

Arthur

Someone did (not me) -- first response according to my newsreader

sb> Make sure your saddle isn't too high, and that your cranks aren't too
sb> high. Either of these conditions can make it hard to spin a rapid cadence.

sb> Sheldon "A Little At A Time" Brown