Training on a 20 minute hill

Bike4Him said:

How can I really get a lot of training out of a day on that hill?

I think you'll get more out of your training day by skipping the couple hours drive each way and doing threshold intervals near your house or on a stationary trainer.

I understand.
I enjoy the climbing, the scenery in NC, and there is a great park and campground nearby for the family to hang out at while I ride.
Are the threshold intervals you mention 2x20 and 3x20 at what I would perceive to be L4.
If they are, then I'll do them at home and when visiting the mountain I'll do the same. How about 2 sessions in one day at the mountain?

Bike4Him said:

I understand.
I enjoy the climbing, the scenery in NC, and there is a great park and campground nearby for the family to hang out at while I ride.
Are the threshold intervals you mention 2x20 and 3x20 at what I would perceive to be L4.
If they are, then I'll do them at home and when visiting the mountain I'll do the same. How about 2 sessions in one day at the mountain?

If you like being there and will be motivated to ride then go for it.

The threshold intervals come in many varieties but the key ingredients are typically the same: 15-60 minutes at threshold intensity and can be done for reps if you will. I know I know, you have a 20 minute hill so no 30 or 60 minutes non-stop for you. Still, you can probably easily do some reps up and down the hill so that you get your fill. Do as many as you are able to while still maintaining the right intensity, maybe 2, 3, or even more.

Since you may not be able to get to this hill as much as you like, I second the suggestion for the stationary trainer. Mine gets plenty of use and is a super super efficient way to train - no junk miles or noodling around on the trainer, it is all business.

Good luck :-)

P.S. Mount Mitchell is awesome! I love that whole area.

lf your driving 2hrs than l'd shoot for at least 1.5-2hrs worth of work.
20min climbs plus the decent back down is ample recovery to constantly climb at a comfortable pace and as you love the climbing it shouldn't be boring, just make shure the food and liquid is ample.
climbing is as fun for sure but the posirion is usually a little different (for me at least) and the fact that l'm not motoring along on the flats or rollers and getting the cool breaze means l can over cook myself if l am pushing too hard even in cold weather,
so l would save the hard L4 sessions that can be done anytime and get in some quality climbing time in at a hard tempo/SST pace.

Bike4Him said:

I have, within a couple hours drive time, a hill that takes about 20 minutes to climb at an effort in mid to high L4 range based on perceived effort.

How can I really get a lot of training out of a day on that hill?

Is the hill isolated such that there are no other options? Usually such a hill would be close to some other similar hills and you could make a nice ride out of it.

If it's the only thing there, warm up for 15-30 minutes, then do 3 reps on it at threshold power descending immediately off the top and not stopping to rest at the bottom, then cool down for another 15-30 or so. This should be a great workout. I think 3 times is the optimal number.

lanierb said:

Is the hill isolated such that there are no other options? Usually such a hill would be close to some other similar hills and you could make a nice ride out of it.

If it's the only thing there, warm up for 15-30 minutes, then do 3 reps on it at threshold power descending immediately off the top and not stopping to rest at the bottom, then cool down for another 15-30 or so. This should be a great workout. I think 3 times is the optimal number.

Pretty much agree on all counts. Unless it is a dead end road, there should be another climb/descent nearby.

As for driving to a climb, I get it. I used to ride an ergometer (Cardgirus) 95% of the time when I lived in Europe (no daylight in winter during working hours). Once I did a Gran Fondo (stage of the Giro) as my second ride outside for the year -- not ideal. Now I live in Norcal and drive to Sonoma every so often since those roads have so little traffic even compared to where I live.

When I do these rides I ride 4-8 hours to make the driving worthwhile (and often my family meets me for an afternoon/overnight).

If there is only one climb (and a backside?), 3-4 repeats is ideal. Tomorrow morning I am heading out with my HID light at 5:00 am to ride a 3.3 mile, 1300 foot climb, descend an alternate road (the climb is narrow and dangerous as a descent) repeat, then do the backside, which is a bit easier and roughly half the distance, then do the frontside and backside one more time. That is about 5500 feet of climbing and ~45 miles, ehich should take me about 3 hours. It is a great SST workout and would be worth a drive.

Watoni said:

Tomorrow morning I am heading out with my HID light at 5:00 am to ride a 3.3 mile, 1300 foot climb, descend an alternate road (the climb is narrow and dangerous as a descent) repeat, then do the backside, which is a bit easier and roughly half the distance, then do the frontside and backside one more time.

Let me guess... OLH/WOLH? I no longer live out there but back when I did I did three-peats of OLH a bunch of times!

lanierb said:

Is the hill isolated such that there are no other options? Usually such a hill would be close to some other similar hills and you could make a nice ride out of it.

If it's the only thing there, warm up for 15-30 minutes, then do 3 reps on it at threshold power descending immediately off the top and not stopping to rest at the bottom, then cool down for another 15-30 or so. This should be a great workout. I think 3 times is the optimal number.

There are other hills within 15 very rolling miles or so...all of them up and back.
I have mapped many options but am trying to focus on getting the most for the time. The longest hill I'm talking about here has no traffic. The others are parks and are sometimes annoying to climb with cars passing and slow to descend with cars in the way.

lanierb said:

Let me guess... OLH/WOLH? I no longer live out there but back when I did I did three-peats of OLH a bunch of times!

Exactly! I do OLH/WOLH and Kings/Tunitas (from Lobitos Creek Cut-off) most commonly ...

Bike4Him said:

There are other hills within 15 very rolling miles or so...all of them up and back.
I have mapped many options but am trying to focus on getting the most for the time. The longest hill I'm talking about here has no traffic. The others are parks and are sometimes annoying to climb with cars passing and slow to descend with cars in the way.

15 miles is not much. If it were me I would do a tour of some of those hills, even if they are out and backs. You can also do one twice, then go to another and do that twice. Lots of options.

lanierb said:

15 miles is not much. If it were me I would do a tour of some of those hills, even if they are out and backs. You can also do one twice, then go to another and do that twice. Lots of options.

I got the route. 50 miles with 3 hills and rolling terrain totalling about 5,000' of climbing. Got to be worth the drive now. I'm not as motivated on flats or trainer and I do this for fun.

If you can't ride all the way out to the hill, try driving 1/2 way, then ride to the hill and back to your car.

Getting to the hill is your goal and you have no choice but to ride back to the car (you can't quit early). Make it about a 70-90 mile training day if your training for a 100 mile race.

If your return to the car is into the wind, push hard to simulate the hilly back end of the race.

I am fortunate that I have a multitude of hills here. Trainers are great if you have no other choice and want to maintain some form but it is all about the road when it comes to getting better.
I always recommend climbing in a higher gear and try and maintain the same cadence. The simplest but most difficult thing is to push beyond your comfort level and do it as often as possible. This is the way to get better. It is always easier to sit back in the bailout position and spin steady up a hill but that guy that pushes the threshold will always be up ahead of you.