Training Week Ending February 15, 2004

Goals: Bow Lake 15k in April, 1/2 Marathon in May, build base for fall marathon, lose another
5 - 10 lbs

Monday: 6mi (8:30 pace) Tuesday: 14mi (9:15 pace) Wednesday: off Thursday: 7mi (8:20 pace) Friday:
5mi (8:30 pace) Saturday: 8mi (8:30 pace) Sunday: 4mi (recovery run) Total: 44 miles

Went to see a nutritionist this week to figure out maintenance plan. Not sure if I agree with what
she is doing. She says she believes in a balanced ratio of protein, fat and carbs (33/33/34). I
think that's too much fat but I told her I'd give it a month. She also says I only need about 1800
calories to maintain my weight (180lbs). Any thoughts on this from anyone? Any better suggestions?

Mark Mauro

"SwStudio" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Greetings, rec.runners! Please tell us about your training week and goals.

cheers,
--
David (in Hamilton, ON) www.allfalldown.org

In article said:

Goals: Bow Lake 15k in April, 1/2 Marathon in May, build base for fall marathon, lose another 5
- 10 lbs

Monday: 6mi (8:30 pace) Tuesday: 14mi (9:15 pace) Wednesday: off Thursday: 7mi (8:20 pace) Friday:
5mi (8:30 pace) Saturday: 8mi (8:30 pace) Sunday: 4mi (recovery run) Total: 44 miles

Went to see a nutritionist this week to figure out maintenance plan. Not sure if I agree with what
she is doing. She says she believes in a balanced ratio of protein, fat and carbs (33/33/34).

"Balanced" means different things to different people. Does she know you're marathon training ? With
your carbs that low (that's about 150gm), you may find it helps if you take some just before and
during your runs (e.g. gels).

It's all very well to "believe" in something, but one size doesn't fit all. I'm skeptical as to
whether she understands the implications of running over 40mpw (nearly 1000cal/day for you -- which
means 1800/day is probably not "maintenance"😉 Of course most people underestimate their intake, so
the typicl person who believes they're taking 1800 may be taking quite a lot more.

As has already been mentioned before -- there's little basis for making protein a given percentage
of your intake. Instead, work out what your protein requirements are and have that much (about
125gm for you)

Quoted message said:

I think that's too much fat but I told her I'd give it a month. She also says I only need about
1800 calories to maintain my weight (180lbs). Any thoughts on this from anyone?

Trial and error is the only way to know exactly what "maintenance" is. But 1800 sounds low. So I
think you'll lose weight on that (but training won't be as much fun) Take a look at this URL:

trygve.commfw faq.htmlOpen ↗

Cheers,
--
Donovan Rebbechi pegasus.rutgers.edu~elflordOpen ↗

"Mark Mauro" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

Quoted message said:

Goals: Bow Lake 15k in April, 1/2 Marathon in May, build base for fall marathon, lose another 5
- 10 lbs

Monday: 6mi (8:30 pace) Tuesday: 14mi (9:15 pace) Wednesday: off Thursday: 7mi (8:20 pace) Friday:
5mi (8:30 pace) Saturday: 8mi (8:30 pace) Sunday: 4mi (recovery run) Total: 44 miles

Went to see a nutritionist this week to figure out maintenance plan. Not sure if I agree with what
she is doing. She says she believes in a

balanced

Quoted message said:

ratio of protein, fat and carbs (33/33/34). I think that's too much fat

but

Quoted message said:

I told her I'd give it a month. She also says I only need about 1800 calories to maintain my
weight (180lbs). Any thoughts on this from anyone? Any better suggestions?

Way too few calories for a runner of your mileage. That's a given. I could live on that (and I have)
if I was sedentary and unemployed,
i.e. loafing around all day.

Everyone has opinions of the ratios, and I think there's a margin of error based on the uniqueness
of each individual. I won't really get into that, but at the very least I'd suggest raising the carb
level and lowering the fat an equal amount - ratios are up to you.

cheers,
--
David (in Hamilton, ON) www.allfalldown.org

"Donovan Rebbechi" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

Quoted message said:

It's all very well to "believe" in something, but one size doesn't fit

all. I'm

Quoted message said:

skeptical as to whether she understands the implications of running over

40mpw

Quoted message said:

(nearly 1000cal/day for you -- which means 1800/day is probably not "maintenance"😉

Although I think your caloric expenditure math is off (probably more like 400 - 500 calories a day
avg. spent on running), you are right on the money.

A lot of these studies/opinions (like the sodium study posted earlier) are probably realistic for a
more-or-less average individual who perhaps exercises moderately at best.

cheers,
--
David (in Hamilton, ON) www.allfalldown.org

"Donovan Rebbechi" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

In article said:

Goals: Bow Lake 15k in April, 1/2 Marathon in May, build base for fall marathon, lose another 5
- 10 lbs

Monday: 6mi (8:30 pace) Tuesday: 14mi (9:15 pace) Wednesday: off Thursday: 7mi (8:20 pace)
Friday: 5mi (8:30 pace) Saturday: 8mi (8:30 pace) Sunday: 4mi (recovery run) Total: 44 miles

Went to see a nutritionist this week to figure out maintenance plan. Not sure if I agree with
what she is doing. She says she believes in a

balanced

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

ratio of protein, fat and carbs (33/33/34).

"Balanced" means different things to different people. Does she know

you're

Quoted message said:

marathon training ? With your carbs that low (that's about 150gm), you may

find

Quoted message said:

it helps if you take some just before and during your runs (e.g. gels).

It's all very well to "believe" in something, but one size doesn't fit

all. I'm

Quoted message said:

skeptical as to whether she understands the implications of running over

40mpw

Quoted message said:

(nearly 1000cal/day for you -- which means 1800/day is probably not "maintenance"😉 Of course most
people underestimate their intake, so the typicl person who believes they're taking 1800 may be
taking quite a lot

more.

Quoted message said:

As has already been mentioned before -- there's little basis for making

protein

Quoted message said:

a given percentage of your intake. Instead, work out what your protein requirements are and have
that much (about 125gm for you)

Quoted message said:

I think that's too much fat but I told her I'd give it a month. She also says I only need about
1800 calories to maintain my weight (180lbs). Any thoughts on this from

anyone?

Quoted message said:

Trial and error is the only way to know exactly what "maintenance" is. But

1800

Quoted message said:

sounds low. So I think you'll lose weight on that (but training won't be

as

Quoted message said:

much fun) Take a look at this URL:

trygve.commfw faq.htmlOpen ↗

Here's a couple other sites with algorithms for calculating calorie needs:

weight-loss-i.comcalorie needs katch mcardle.htmOpen ↗

and

weight-loss-i.comcalorie needs harris benedict.htmOpen ↗

Any way you slice it, though, 1800 calories/day seems like an extremely low maintenance level for a
180 lb male, unless you are laying in bed all day.

goals: make it to and through my first marathon, Feb 22.

M: 4mi (treadmill + 4.5 elliptical trainer)
N: 7mi incl 10x400 w/descending rests; avg 1:34.7
O: 4mi (tm + 4.5 et)
P: 8mi (8:28), felt fine
Q: 9.3mi (9:17), some knee/hip (ITB) twinges Sa: 4mi (tm + 4.5 et) Su: 16.8mi (8:31), felt good

total: 53.1 miles running (plus 13.5 et)

ITB continues to improve, though it flared a bit (and then subsided) toward the end of the week. Now
it's taper time, and for good measure I'll "run" about 40% of next week's miles on the elliptical
trainer. As for the marathon: I've got a goal and a plan, and I've done a lot of training, so we'll
see if it all comes together next Sunday.

Good week all

Karen

M 4.25 mi Tu DNR W 4.5 mi Th 4.5 mi F DNR S 2.5 mi Su 7.5 mi

Total = 23.25

Goals: 10 milers Feb. 22, sub 2 hr time; 28-30 weekly milage, lose 30 lbs in 2004, trail half
marathon in fall.

All told, not a bad week. Did 3 of my miles at 11:15 on Monday, and a low-key short club race on
soft trails at 11:20 on Saturday. I wish I had figured out a way to work in more 10-mile training
runs in the past month, but it just wasn't in the cards. Will take it easy, other than the race, the
next two weeks, and after that I can regroup and figure out how to schedule the 30 mi/week including
a 2-2.5 hour long run.

"SwStudio" <[email hidden]> wrote in news:hWyXb.3173$Fp5.1023
@read1.cgocable.net:

Quoted message said:

Greetings, rec.runners! Please tell us about your training week and goals.

Mon rest Tue 7.0 mi, easy Wed 9.0 mi, pmp - 3 up, 4 @ 8:01/mi, 2 down Thu 7.0 mi, easy hills Fri
rest Sat 5.1 mi, easy Sun 12.0 mi, rain, hail, wind Ttl 40.1 mi

My first week at 40 miles since December '99. Next week is a recovery week of 25 miles. I plan on
maintaining a holding pattern of 40, 40, 40, 25 mpw until week ending 4/25. After that I will begin
a 24-week marathon training program that will culminate with the Chicago marathon on 10/10. I am
adding some faster paced running on Wednesdays. Mostly planned marathon pace and threshold pace.
Also, picking up the pace a bit for the last 3 miles of my long run.

Today's long run was interesting. 40 deg F, steady rain, even some hail. After 6 miles I felt a
weather front coming because of a big increase of wind velocity at my back. That was followed by a
sudden chill and pelting rain and hail. I was dressed with a Hind DryLite hat, Insport long-sleeve
shirt, Activent vest, Hind knee-length tights (fitness shorts), Hind DryLite Petroglyph gloves, and
vaseline in various places. The hail really stung my exposed legs and face, especially when I turned
into the wind. After the hail subsided, the rain intensified and caused my hands to become numb. I
pulled the sleeves of my shirt over my gloves to help keep them a little warmer. I had my cell phone
with me and was seriously considering calling someone to pick me up. But since I'd already done half
of the 12-miler, I might as well run home and finish it. I'm glad I finished the run, because even
though my hands were numb, it wasn't painful and I wasn't chilled to the bone, just my hands and
legs. What really saved the run was the Activent vest. Donovan would say this is "serious overkill."
However, in this case, with the rain, hail and wind, it definitely was helpful. So I think I have
this running in cold rain thing figured out, except for one thing: the gloves. The gloves I have are
great for dry weather down to about 25 deg F. However, if they get wet they are useless. Is there a
glove out there that anyone can recommend for cold, wet weather running?

-Phil

An honest politician is one who when he is bought will stay bought. -- Simon Cameron

In article said:

"Donovan Rebbechi" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

Quoted message said:

It's all very well to "believe" in something, but one size doesn't fit

all. I'm

Quoted message said:

skeptical as to whether she understands the implications of running over

40mpw

Quoted message said:

(nearly 1000cal/day for you -- which means 1800/day is probably not "maintenance"😉

Although I think your caloric expenditure math is off (probably more like 400 - 500 calories a day
avg. spent on running), you are right on the money.

FWIW, here's how I got the numbers: they're based on 100cal/mile for a 137lb runner.

45m/w * 100cal/mile * 180/137 / (7days/w) = 844

The 100cal/mile for a 137lb runner number is based on the ACSM numbers quoted in "Exercise
Physiology" by McArdle, Katch and Katch.

Cheers,
--
Donovan Rebbechi pegasus.rutgers.edu~elflordOpen ↗

Haven't been posting here much since a lot of my attention has moved over to the RW forums but for
me last week was 31 miles (3 seven milers and 2 five milers) all at an easy pace (for me about 8
MPM). Not training for anythng, just trying to keep 25 to 30 MPW and see what the spring might
bring. Doug Burke

SwStudio said:

Greetings, rec.runners! Please tell us about your training week and goals.

cheers,

SwStudio <[email hidden]> wrote:

Good weather in Ann Arbor as well. Really good week this week, starting to come out of the winter
base and put more speed on.

Mon: 7.0 mi (@7:54) Tue: off Wed: 6.25 mi (@7:08) (5.75 mi segment run, 1 mi up, 1 mi down). Thu:
4.0 mi (@7:54) Fri: 7.0 mi (@7:59) Sat: 11.55mi (@8:16) Sun: off Goals: Martian Half-Marathon in
late March, and Dexter-Ann Arbor half-marathon in early June.

total miles: 35.8

-jeremy
--
--
+================================================================+
Jeremy Hallum, System Manager , Astronomy, University of Michigan
[email hidden]::[email hidden]
"Audentis Fortuna Iuvat"

SwStudio said:

Greetings, rec.runners! Please tell us about your training week and goals.

Goals: Pure sprinting (60-100m) through March

2/21 Holiday Inn Classic 55m (Reno NV indoors) goal 6.23
3/20 Aztec Invitational 100m goal sub-11
4/3 Steve Scott Invitational, probably 800

Mon weights

Tue rest

Wed 4 X 30m flying (2.98)

Thu 10X100 tempo at 70% speed

Fri weights: bench 5X10X205 @2 min rest seated rows 4X12X150, 60 sec rest tricep pushdown 4X12X90,
60 sec rest

Sat off

Sun 3X30m starts (3.7), 2 X 3 X 60m flying (6.25 best), rest 3min/10 min

"Mileage" for week: 2.75 (who cares, this is sprinting)

Lyndon

"Speed Kills...It kills those that don't have it!" --US Olympic Track Coach Brooks Johnson

Goals:

Sub 3 in Boston. While I'm at it, get under 160 pounds!

M: rest Tu: 8mi, including 8x800 @2:40-2:50 (avg 2:47) w/ 2:50 rest.
N: 8mi, ~7:00 pace Th: 8mi, 7:30 pace with 20min tempo run of 6:18 pace
O: 7mi, 7:30 pace Sa: 18mi, 6:48 pace. Su: 6mi, 7:30 pace.

Total: 55 miles.

Things I learned this week:
1) Pump those arms in the 800s to go faster.
2) Long run turned out to be a marathon tempo run with no effort. I don't know if I could keep that
up for another 8 miles, but it's encouraging.

--Ryan

Goal: build base after long time focusing on cycling and not running; lose some weight; mid-term,
run decent times for 10K

M: biking, 30m, easy recovery from previous day
N: running, intervals 5 x (.5M @ 6:53, .25M walk/jog), total 5M, 38:55. Moderate weights.
O: running, 8M, comfortable (1:02:15) @ 7:53 pace. Longest thus far, glad to be feeling this well.
P: serious weights (concentration on legs).
Q: running, 5M, fairly easy (39:01) but tight from Thursday.
R: rest day.
S: running, outdoors (very cold) 4M, slow: cold and tight.

total mileage: 22M

Jesse Sheidlower

"SwStudio" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

Quoted message said:

Greetings, rec.runners! Please tell us about your training week and goals.

I ran a [censored] 5km race today. Stuck with the chase group all vying for 2nd and 3rd place and lost it
with about 200m to go and came in 4th with a
17:3x time. I'm really irritated about my inabitlity to deal with the final moments of a race. I
know I've been training for much longer races, but I WILL eradicate this problem.

09 8km (4:00/km) weight training 10 23km (first 20k @ 4:00/km, last 3k @ 3:43/km), 1km down 11
elliptical workout (no hands, eyes closed, etc.) treadmill: (2min @ 1% incline, 4% incline, 8%
incline; all @ 8mph) x 4, 5km up , 2km down 12 6km (3:54/km), 1.7km (3:23/km), 300m down 13 off 14
4km (2km @4:05/km, 1km @ 3:42/km. 1km @ 5:00/km), full stretch routine 15 5k tune-up race (4th
overall), 2km warm up

Total: 63km

--
David (in Hamilton, ON) www.allfalldown.org

In article said:

Greetings, rec.runners! Please tell us about your training week and goals.

M 4.6 T 7.5/6 W 43min xtraining T 6 Atchoo! A cold "peaked" and blew away my hopes at going to a
track meet. F 6 S 8 (intervals 4x1200), 45min xtraining S 10.3, 30min xtraining

Total 48.4. Just happy to get through my planned volume despite this damn cold.

Cheers,
--
Donovan Rebbechi pegasus.rutgers.edu~elflordOpen ↗

Phil M. wrote:

Good post, Phil! This is the kinda thing that I try to prepare for when trail running, since
nobody's gonna come get me and weather *does* change or other things happen.

Quoted message said:

Today's long run was interesting. 40 deg F, steady rain, even some hail. After 6 miles I felt a
weather front coming because of a big increase of wind velocity at my back.

... I'm glad I

Quoted message said:

finished the run, because even though my hands were numb, it wasn't painful and I wasn't chilled
to the bone, just my hands and legs. What really saved the run was the Activent vest. Donovan
would say this is "serious overkill." However, in this case, with the rain, hail and wind, it
definitely was helpful.

yep.

So I think I have this running in cold rain

Quoted message said:

thing figured out, except for one thing: the gloves. The gloves I have are great for dry weather
down to about 25 deg F. However, if they get wet they are useless. Is there a glove out there that
anyone can recommend for cold, wet weather running?

Couple ideas. Windstopper gloves/mittens are windproof and probably pretty water repellant or
resistant based on reviews of windstopper fabric, but I haven't worn mine in the rain that I
remember. Neoprene gloves do soak through if in rain for long time (multiple hours) but the thin
layer of water next to your skin should stay warm unless you take them off. I use these for field
work in pouring rain, but don't use them running. Or you could get a nylon or other waterproof/water
resistant shell for your present mittens or wear the shell mittens alone.

The mittens I use are waterproof and insulated (filled one mitten with water from tap and it didn't
leak a drop) and I've used them to -20F with warm, toasty hands, although almost sweaty - but I'm
not complaining 🙂 I think the outer insulation might get wet in rain, but hands will be dry. Might
be overkill for 25-40F, but maybe not. Problem might be that they are Wells Lamont with Microlar 3
insert (last ones are from "Hotfingers" line). I usually find them in the "small hands" (women,
kids) section and I'm not sure I've seen similar mittens in men's area. I guess they figure only
women and children play in the snow 😉 Another marketing mystery.

Dot

--
"Success is different things to different people" -Bernd Heinrich in Racing the Antelope

Donovan Rebbechi <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

In article said:

Goals: Bow Lake 15k in April, 1/2 Marathon in May, build base for fall marathon, lose another 5
- 10 lbs

Monday: 6mi (8:30 pace) Tuesday: 14mi (9:15 pace) Wednesday: off Thursday: 7mi (8:20 pace)
Friday: 5mi (8:30 pace) Saturday: 8mi (8:30 pace) Sunday: 4mi (recovery run) Total: 44 miles

Went to see a nutritionist this week to figure out maintenance plan. Not sure if I agree with
what she is doing. She says she believes in a balanced ratio of protein, fat and carbs
(33/33/34).

"Balanced" means different things to different people. Does she know you're marathon training ?
With your carbs that low (that's about 150gm), you may find it helps if you take some just before
and during your runs (e.g. gels).

It's all very well to "believe" in something, but one size doesn't fit all. I'm skeptical as to
whether she understands the implications of running over 40mpw (nearly 1000cal/day for you --
which means 1800/day is probably not "maintenance"😉 Of course most people underestimate their
intake, so the typicl person who believes they're taking 1800 may be taking quite a lot more.

As has already been mentioned before -- there's little basis for making protein a given percentage
of your intake. Instead, work out what your protein requirements are and have that much (about
125gm for you)

Quoted message said:

I think that's too much fat but I told her I'd give it a month. She also says I only need about
1800 calories to maintain my weight (180lbs). Any thoughts on this from anyone?

Trial and error is the only way to know exactly what "maintenance" is. But 1800 sounds low. So I
think you'll lose weight on that (but training won't be as much fun) Take a look at this URL:

trygve.commfw faq.htmlOpen ↗

Cheers,

Yes she does know I'm in Marathon training but still said that was the calories I needed. She is all
about the "Eat like a caveman" diet. When I asked her what I could have during a long run, she said
nothing since everything is processed and just gives you a sugar high for a few minutes and then you
crash. Something tells me I should find another nutritionist.

Mark Mauro

Mark Mauro said:

Yes she does know I'm in Marathon training but still said that was the calories I needed. She is
all about the "Eat like a caveman" diet.

Quoted message said:

When I asked her what I could have during a long run, she said nothing since everything is
processed and just gives you a sugar high for a few minutes and then you crash. Something tells me
I should find another nutritionist.

check her credentials and see if the back side of her degree is a box of Captain Crunch. If nothing
else she is totally ignorant of nutrition during exercise. Yes, find another before she does some
real harm. Did she study under Dr. Kavorkian?

--
Doug Freese "Caveat Lector" [email hidden]