Trial unicycles?

well trials are all about jumping on and of things.really it has no
reall advantige over a street unicycle they both excell in the type of
riding that you do with them. umm the way that a trials unicycle
improves trials riding is that over a normal unicycle the tire is
wider.meaning you have more of a base to land on,also the weel,hubs,and
crank arms are much stronger for larger drops. the purpose of knobby
tires is for great grip if you have a bare tire you won't be able to
grab onto slanted surfaces. well i guess thats all about what you were
asking for so hope it helped!

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heelnipper said:

well trials are all about jumping on and of things.really it has no
reall advantige over a street unicycle they both excell in the type of
riding that you do with them. umm the way that a trials unicycle
improves trials riding is that over a normal unicycle the tire is
wider.meaning you have more of a base to land on,also the weel,hubs,and
crank arms are much stronger for larger drops. the *purpose of knobby
tires is for great grip if you have a bare tire you won't be able to
grab onto slanted surfaces*. well i guess thats all about what you were
asking for so hope it helped!

Not for me! lol

I ride a bald CC tire and it grips to everything, unless its really
wet, but then even my two other CC tires that are new would have
problem with that too. Its mainly in the rubber compound that gives a
tire grip than the knobs on it.

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Jerrick is right, a slick tire with a soft rubber compound grips best to
an even surface. Like knobby tires in motocross, and slicks on road
racers and dragsters.The more rubber touching the surface, the better
the grip.

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feel the light said:

The more rubber touching the surface, the better the grip.

I'm not sure if i can be bothered to rise to this, but it's a lot more
complicated than that.

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Dave

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Well, putting it simple when your hoping up somthing and you land on the
edge, the knobbles will grip onto the edge, more grip. Not being funny
but its pretty obv, try getting up stuff in trials with a slick tyre at
low pressure see how far you get :p lol And yeah the knobbles do help
because as your tyre wears down on a rials tyre you feel the loss of
grip.

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matti_marron said:

Well, putting it simple when your hoping up somthing and *you land on
the edge, the knobbles will grip onto the edge, more grip*. Not being
funny but its pretty obv, try getting up stuff in trials with a slick
tyre at low pressure see how far you get :p lol And yeah the knobbles
do help because as your tyre wears down on a rials tyre you feel the
loss of grip.

...

as someone said above thats the actual opposite. The more rubber
touching a [hard flat] surface, the more grip [more friction]... the
nobbles just grip better on dirt and uneven surfaces cos they dig in to
the dirt and around the grooves.

An opposite of this is in curling. The ice is not actually flat, its
sprayed first so there are small bumps on it and there is less friction
between the stones [are they called this??] and ice, so they go faster.

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jamessd said:

...

as someone said above thats the actual opposite. The more rubber
touching a [hard flat] surface, the more grip [more friction]... the
nobbles just grip better on dirt and uneven surfaces cos they dig in to
the dirt and around the grooves.

...and those nobs help tremendously on uneven surfaces, but hinder
little on smooth slanted rock.

jamessd said:

An opposite of this is in curling. The ice is not actually flat, its
sprayed first so there are small bumps on it and there is less friction
between the stones [are they called this??] and ice, so they go faster.

As an example ice is like 1000 grit sand paper and concrete is like 40
grit. The bumps on concrete, asphalt, rock, are quite large in
comparison to ice, but still pretty smooth to the naked eye.

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Bigger tire = more air volume = more compression which means higher ups
and softer downs. For the most part...

--
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Ducttape said:

not gonna show you it tonight becasue I am going to play with it until I
go to bed to get it just right.........

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lol
uhm
how do i put it?
if you get a sanding block, place it on a board and lift the board
until it is angled enough for it to slide, and take note of the
angle... then you do the same thing with half the block ... with the
weight of the other 1/2 included somehow ... it slides at the exact
same angle. it has nothing to do with friction at a basic (physics)
level. but if you hit a ledge, those nobs have a high coefficient of
friction against it and will actually "pinch" (i don't know how to say
what im thinking) the corner and keep the tire deflated for a longer
time than a slick tire.

as far as angles go, tire flattens out, on most surfaces this helps
because there are sand deposits and such. the same reason normal tires
slip on the surfaces, the tire slips across the surface easier. the
softer compound of the tires allows more friction and more flex so the
tire "sticks" for longer.

the whole curling thing... with ice... ice melts faster in small
amounts... so basically if something solid is sliding across the ice it
will work much better if it can melt the ice a tiny bit as it slides.

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____________________________________________
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Asside from strength the main difference is the tire, as many said. The
tire's higher volume allows you to run a lower air pressure w/o pinch
flats, softer landings, and getting more spring effect to jump higher.

skrobo said:

lol
uhm
how do i put it?
if you get a sanding block, place it on a board and lift the board
until it is angled enough for it to slide, and take note of the
angle... then you do the same thing with half the block ... with the
weight of the other 1/2 included somehow ... it slides at the exact
same angle. it has nothing to do with friction at a basic (physics)
level.

Doing what you said and in each case the center of mass of each block
was at the same height from the board and their surfaces had the same
coeficient of friction, then they would both apply the same amount of
friction (because their forces are equal) , and start to slide at the
same time.

However if you took two blocks of the same size, center of mass, and
surface but one is heavier, the heavier block will start to slide at a
steeper angle than the lighter one.

force of friction = downward force X coefficient of friction

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matti_marron said:

Well, putting it simple when your hoping up somthing and you land on the
edge, the knobbles will grip onto the edge, more grip. Not being funny
but its pretty obv, *try getting up stuff in trials with a slick tyre
at low pressure see how far you get* :p lol And yeah the knobbles do
help because *as your tyre wears down on a rials tyre you feel the loss
of grip.*

I have been riding a ba'ld tire like that for easily 5 mon'
(

)ths now, even at Moab it was
doing fine on the trails, no slipping around for me.

I also havent felt any loss of traction/grip with it, main thing I have
noticed is that my bald CC doesn't fold as much as a new CC does, and
rides a lot more smoother.

So tell me, how many bald/smooth trials tires have you been riding
with, and for how long?

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skilewis74 said:

As an example ice is like 1000 grit sand paper and concrete is like 40
grit. The bumps on concrete, asphalt, rock, are quite large in
comparison to ice, but still pretty smooth to the naked eye.

skrobo said:

the whole curling thing... with ice... ice melts faster in small
amounts... so basically if something solid is sliding across the ice it
will work much better if it can melt the ice a tiny bit as it slides.

I was only getting at the idea of friction, nothing in depth!!

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skrobo said:

lol
uhm
how do i put it?
if you get a sanding block, place it on a board and lift the board
until it is angled enough for it to slide, and take note of the
angle... then you do the same thing with half the block ... with the
weight of the other 1/2 included somehow ... it slides at the exact
same angle. it has nothing to do with friction at a basic (physics)
level. but if you hit a ledge, those nobs have a high coefficient of
friction against it and will actually "pinch" (i don't know how to say
what im thinking) the corner and keep the tire deflated for a longer
time than a slick tire.

YES! Finally someone who was paying attention during high-dschool
physics. Sorry I'm not picking on anyone in this thread but this issue
comes up alot, and this is good explanation.

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kington99 said:

YES! Finally someone who was paying attention during high-dschool
physics. Sorry I'm not picking on anyone in this thread but this issue
comes up alot, and this is good explanation.

Good explanation sure, but does it really work? From my riding on a
bald tire and new tire with the knobs, no. I still pinch, as skrobo
puts it, just as well as the new tire does, gripping the edges of
stairs, ledges, rails, and rocks.

In the last few weeks I have been trying to land on the edges of things
now. Its pretty fun, specially when you just hang there for a good 10
seconds before you jump to your next object. Ive only been doing it on
rails and anything 4-stairs high or lower. Don't want to chance a bad
slip, bald tire or new.

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The best way to explain this odd quirk is to compare the design of train
vs race car wheels. Both are designed to achieve max traction and low
rolling friction.
The train wheel is designed in accord with the classic formula of
psi (pressure) x contact patch in square inches x coefficient of
friction (a number dependent on the material, low for Teflon, higher
for steel etc) . Using this classic of high school physics, we can see
why the train wheel is relatively skinny, even though they want the
locomotive to be heavy. Making the wheel twice as wide reduces the psi
of the contact patch by one half. So traction remains the same, while
rolling friction would increase. So with steel running on steel,
traction is not helped by using a bigger contact patch.
They want the race car wheel to be as light as possible. Certainly,
the tires should be made skinny, small, and thus light. Yet F1 cars
are famous for their wide tires. This is because of the unique
properties of the rubber wheel. It makes a physical bond with whatever
it touches, and this bond increases friction. So the knobby tire makes
up for the loss of contact area by the fact that there is greater
pressure on the smaller area of the knobs, increasing friction there.
This does not compensate enough to overcome the lack of contact area.
So I believe that Jerrick's empirical observation that he achieves
better traction with a slick tire is correct. Slick tires suffer from
hydro planning, and
a ball bearing like sliding on sandy surfaces. However, on clean dry
surfaces a tire with maximum rubber in contact will always have better
traction. That is why race cars pull into the pits to put on grooved
tires only if it rains. The function of tread is to channel water and
[censored] away from the contact patch.
On unis and dirt bikes, the knobs help grip loose soil also.

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^^^^^
couldn't have put it better, even if i tried all day
how hot the rubber is would also contribute to how much grip (the
warmer the stickier=more grip)... but thats for another time, and the
difference is probably negligible at the unicycling level anyway

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