typical low-carb meals - what us wrong with this

Why not a side of grain or tubers? Why not a side of
multigrain bread with butter? Why not any other carb source
with an gi/gl = < the carrets and peas, both high btw? Why
not a moderate carb diet which falls within one's energy
requirements?

Quoted message said:

Here are a couple of typical low-carb meals. I challenge
any anti-atkins people to explain what is wrong and so
dangerous about this.

1) 4 ounces of chicken, beef, fish, pork or lamb side of
veggies - carrots and peas all the salad and vinaigrette
dressing you want

2) 4 ounces of bbq steak, ribs, or chicken mushroom and
veggie stuffed green pepper all the summer salad and
vinaigrette dressing you want

Sounds downright dangerous doesn't it.

The only thing being restricted is refined sugars and
grains and high-starch tubers. Scary, eh?

TC

What's wrong? There's no carbs!

--
Frank W. Marrs III Georgia Institute of Technology
[email hidden] <omit "spamguard" to
email> "tcomeau" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Here are a couple of typical low-carb meals. I challenge
any anti-atkins people to explain what is wrong and so
dangerous about this.

1) 4 ounces of chicken, beef, fish, pork or lamb side of
veggies - carrots and peas all the salad and
vinaigrette dressing you want

2) 4 ounces of bbq steak, ribs, or chicken mushroom and
veggie stuffed green pepper all the summer salad and
vinaigrette dressing you want

Sounds downright dangerous doesn't it.

The only thing being restricted is refined sugars and
grains and high-starch tubers. Scary, eh?

TC

Quoted message said:

Why not a side of grain or tubers? Why not a side of
multigrain bread with butter? Why not any other carb
source with an gi/gl = < the

carrets

Quoted message said:

and peas, both high btw? Why not a moderate carb diet
which falls

within

Quoted message said:

one's energy requirements?

Let me think... hm.... hm.... what about calories? 🙂

Mirek

x-no-archive: yes

Quoted message said:

Why not a side of grain or tubers? Why not a side of
multigrain bread with butter? Why not any other carb source
with an gi/gl = < the carrets and peas, both high btw? Why
not a moderate carb diet which falls within one's energy
requirements?

Why add grains in place of much more nutrient dense
plant foods?

I don't get you extremists.

Susan

The first principle in weight control is to get the energy
balance in hand, source of the calories doesn't matter. One
could take any item in the original low carb example and
reduce it by x calories and add the same x from carb sources
and the energy balance is intact. Grains are plant foods
too. The energy concentration of the peas and corn in the
low carb example are quite similar in energy concentration,
as measured by gi/gl, to multigraim bread and brown rice.
Extreme with regard to what?

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Why not a side of grain or tubers? Why not a side of
multigrain bread with butter? Why not any other carb
source with an gi/gl = < the carrets and peas, both high
btw? Why not a moderate carb diet which falls within one's
energy requirements?

Why add grains in place of much more nutrient dense
plant foods?

I don't get you extremists.

Susan

The other carb sources were to be in place of the peas and
corn, as mentioned, energy requirements are not to be
exceeded; thus calories are considered.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Why not a side of grain or tubers? Why not a side of
multigrain bread with butter? Why not any other carb
source with an gi/gl = < the

carrets

Quoted message said:

and peas, both high btw? Why not a moderate carb diet
which falls

within

Quoted message said:

one's energy requirements?

Let me think... hm.... hm.... what about calories? 🙂

Mirek

x-no-archive: yes

Quoted message said:

The energy concentration of the peas and corn in the low
carb example are quite similar in energy concentration, as
measured by gi/gl, to multigraim bread and brown rice.
Extreme with regard to what?

Extreme in the belief that it's important to include grains,
that the meal was deficient without them.

I'd dump peas and corn for colorful leafies, myself. More
nutritional bang for the buck, which matters more the
less one eats.

Susan

Of course nothing of the kind was said; nothing about
important or deficient. The original provided a menu with
peas and corn as a side, the multigrain bread and brown rice
are comperable in every way, including nutrition. So again,
extreme with regard to what? With regard to weight control,
the concern of the original post menu example, caleries from
a carb source is just fine as long as the energy balance is
met and no more. Now you mention nutrition as an additional
point, we can add it to the energy balance, both easily
achieved while including a substantual part of food intake
from carb sources, including those in the leafy greens whose
color is appealing.

Quoted message said:

Extreme in the belief that it's important to include
grains, that the meal was deficient without them.

I'd dump peas and corn for colorful leafies, myself. More
nutritional bang for the buck, which matters more the less
one eats.

Susan

There are as many carbs as one may need unless of course you
plan to run a marathon. Lots of carbs. You do realize that
there really is no *essential* carbohydrate, don't you?

TC

"Frank W. Marrs III" <[email hidden]> wrote in
message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

What's wrong? There's no carbs!

--
Frank W. Marrs III Georgia Institute of Technology
[email hidden] <omit "spamguard" to
email> "tcomeau" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Here are a couple of typical low-carb meals. I challenge
any anti-atkins people to explain what is wrong and so
dangerous about this.

1) 4 ounces of chicken, beef, fish, pork or lamb side of
veggies - carrots and peas all the salad and
vinaigrette dressing you want

2) 4 ounces of bbq steak, ribs, or chicken mushroom and
veggie stuffed green pepper all the summer salad and
vinaigrette dressing you want

Sounds downright dangerous doesn't it.

The only thing being restricted is refined sugars and
grains and high-starch tubers. Scary, eh?

TC

Why a side of grain or tubers? Why multi-grain bread? They
are unnecessary to a healthy diet.

I would have a pat of butter on the veggies or some olive
oil on the stuffed green pepper though. Soooo good and
satiating, and healthy.

These meals are moderate carbs and they fall within one's
energy requirements. Especially if one is not a world class
athlete like the majority of americans.

The point is that grains, tubers and sugars are too much for
our lifestyles.

TC

[email hidden] wrote in message news:<[email hidden]-
net.com>...

Quoted message said:

Why not a side of grain or tubers? Why not a side of
multigrain bread with butter? Why not any other carb
source with an gi/gl = < the carrets and peas, both high
btw? Why not a moderate carb diet which falls within one's
energy requirements?

Quoted message said:

Here are a couple of typical low-carb meals. I challenge
any anti-atkins people to explain what is wrong and so
dangerous about this.

1) 4 ounces of chicken, beef, fish, pork or lamb side of
veggies - carrots and peas all the salad and
vinaigrette dressing you want

2) 4 ounces of bbq steak, ribs, or chicken mushroom and
veggie stuffed green pepper all the summer salad and
vinaigrette dressing you want

Sounds downright dangerous doesn't it.

The only thing being restricted is refined sugars and
grains and high-starch tubers. Scary, eh?

TC

Quoted message said:

There are as many carbs as one may need unless of course
you plan to run a marathon. Lots of carbs. You do realize
that there really is no

Actually, I believe that for running marathon, fat (dietary
and then body) is the energy source anyway🙂

Mirek

Quoted message said:

The first principle in weight control is to get the energy
balance in hand, source of the calories doesn't matter.
One could take any item

in

So you do think that by replacing mentioned menu with
refined sugar with same calories count would be ok ?

Mirek

Quoted message said:

Of course nothing of the kind was said; nothing about
important or deficient. The original provided a menu with
peas and corn as a side,

the

Quoted message said:

multigrain bread and brown rice are comperable in every
way, including nutrition. So again, extreme with regard to
what? With regard to

weight

Well, thinking about it, we somewhat missed OP point...

So again, do you think that the menu presented is dangerous
to the health?

What is so important about bread? And BTW, bread is either
too high-GI (above 40), or it tastes really bad. I do not
like low-GI bread and I do not want to eat high-GI one.

Mirek

Can you give us an example of your idea of the ideally
balanced meal?

TC

"Frank W. Marrs III" <[email hidden]> wrote in
message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

What's wrong? There's no carbs!

--
Frank W. Marrs III Georgia Institute of Technology
[email hidden] <omit "spamguard" to
email> "tcomeau" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Here are a couple of typical low-carb meals. I challenge
any anti-atkins people to explain what is wrong and so
dangerous about this.

1) 4 ounces of chicken, beef, fish, pork or lamb side of
veggies - carrots and peas all the salad and
vinaigrette dressing you want

2) 4 ounces of bbq steak, ribs, or chicken mushroom and
veggie stuffed green pepper all the summer salad and
vinaigrette dressing you want

Sounds downright dangerous doesn't it.

The only thing being restricted is refined sugars and
grains and high-starch tubers. Scary, eh?

TC

"So again, do you think that the menu presented is dangerous
to the health?"

No, and the things mentioned that could be substituted were
equally so. Do you think a diet that meets energy balance
and nutrition goals and draws upon moderate use of all food
sources is a threat to health? If one wants to include bread
in one's diet, do it within those same goals, regardless of
the gi of bread chosen. However, by definition the nutrition
goal is better met with breads using whole grains and a
concern for moderation naturally speaks to quantity of any
single food. .

"Ok" is always with regard to some measure/goal. Where
weight status alone is the hypothetical point with regard to
energy balance, there is no problem. When nutrition and
range of food sources is a goal, it would probably not be
wise on a constant basis. One instance of replacing the
carbs from peas and corn with sugar is no big deal in and of
itself, a glass of lemonaid might be such a thing.

Quoted message said:

The first principle in weight control is to get the energy
balance in hand, source of the calories doesn't matter.
One could take any item

in

So you do think that by replacing mentioned menu with
refined sugar with same calories count would be ok ?

Just to make the simple point that substutions can easily
be made with those things you said should be excluded,
because they are equivalent in carb status. Don't exceed
calorie requirements, regardless of food sources and you
will not gain weight, lower energy intake below that needed
to maintain metabolism and you will lose weight.
"necessary" to health is based on what? Any food you care
to mention can easily be excluded without health problems,
so that statement helps us not one bit. Eating many carb
source foods increases the probability that the nutrition
required for health will be there, including those in
grains and tubers.

Quoted message said:

Why a side of grain or tubers? Why multi-grain bread? They
are unnecessary to a healthy diet.

I would have a pat of butter on the veggies or some olive
oil on the stuffed green pepper though. Soooo good and
satiating, and healthy.

These meals are moderate carbs and they fall within one's
energy requirements. Especially if one is not a world class
athlete like the majority of americans.

The point is that grains, tubers and sugars are too much
for our lifestyles.

TC

[email hidden] wrote in message news:<[email hidden]-
n et.com>...

Quoted message said:

Why not a side of grain or tubers? Why not a side of
multigrain bread with butter? Why not any other carb
source with an gi/gl = < the carrets and peas, both high
btw? Why not a moderate carb diet which falls within
one's energy requirements?

Quoted message said:

Here are a couple of typical low-carb meals. I challenge
any anti-atkins people to explain what is wrong and so
dangerous about this.

1) 4 ounces of chicken, beef, fish, pork or lamb side of
veggies - carrots and peas all the salad and
vinaigrette dressing you want

2) 4 ounces of bbq steak, ribs, or chicken mushroom and
veggie stuffed green pepper all the summer salad and
vinaigrette dressing you want

Sounds downright dangerous doesn't it.

The only thing being restricted is refined sugars and
grains and high-starch tubers. Scary, eh?

TC

[email hidden] wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Why not a side of grain or tubers? Why not a side of
multigrain bread with butter? Why not any other carb
source with an gi/gl = < the carrets and peas, both
high btw?

Actually, the carrot deal appears to be a mistake- go ahead
and crunch'em!

A recent issue of the newsletter Harvard Women's Health
Watch ranked some foods by both GI and GL. For a baked
potato, the calculation went like this: 37 (grams of
carbohydrate in a serving) multiplied by 1.21 (GI) equals
45. That's still high in a ranking of foods by glycemic
load. Air-popped popcorn, though, went from a high GI of
79 to a low GL of 4. Corn chips fell from 105 to a
moderate GL of 16. Carrots dropped from Harvard's oddly
high GI of 131 to a GL of 10. Remember, serving size
counts: That's a cup of popcorn, an ounce of corn chips
and a half cup of cooked carrots.

And carrots' stock goes up even further. The widely used
glycemic indexing of carrots at 92 (not to mention that
131) was faulty, according to Australian researcher Dr.
Jennie Brand-Miller, a leader in the field and author of
"The Glucose Revolution." She told me by e-mail that a
later, less publicized test put carrots' GI at 49, and very
recent tests under her watch found boiled carrots to have a
GI of 32 and carrot juice 43. That would give carrots a GL
between 3 and 4.

"I think the glycemic load is shaping up to be a valuable
concept," said Brand-Miller. "A diet with a very high GL
should be avoided. This means that the higher the
carbohydrate content of your diet, the more important it is
that the carbohydrate comes from low-GI sources."

Though a proponent of GI and GL awareness — she's working to
develop a program that would allow low-glycemic-index foods
to be labeled as such — Brand-Miller cautions against taking
it to extremes.

"I don't think we should be necessarily aiming for a diet
with the lowest GL," she said. "While the worst choice is a
high-cholesterol, high-GI diet, the best choice is still
being sorted out."

Molly Martin is assistant editor of Pacific Northwest
magazine. She can be reached by calling 206-464-8243, e-
mailing [email hidden] or writing her at Pacific
Northwest magazine, The Seattle Times, P.O. Box 70,
Seattle, WA 98111.

On 17 Mar 2004 07:08:27 -0800, [email hidden] (tcomeau) posted:

Quoted message said:

Can you give us an example of your idea of the ideally
balanced meal?

A varied, wholefood, eucaloric diet and you won't go far
wrong. No point excluding any wholefoods unless they affect
you badly (allergies etc). So long as you get essential
micronutrients, and about 50g of balanced amino acids, then
the rest is meant to be enjoyed.