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Ullrich DESTROYED Lance!

Started by Rene Clancy · · Last activity · 33 posts · 1,008 views

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Road Cycling
Published
18 July 2003
Last activity
20 July 2003
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Rene Clancy
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  1. "dwjones" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    "Dave" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:


    "dwjones" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    ullrich had a spectaular time trial. however he does not have the team


    to be

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    able to match lance in the Pyrenees

    Sure he does...the team of the current 2nd place rider, Vinokurov

    Dave

    Quoted message said:

    no he doesn't. vinokurov is a member of his previous team

    Duh!...think outside the box for a moment.. Dave

  2. In article <[email hidden]>, "Kurgan Gringioni"

    Quoted message said:

    "Nev Shea" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    jean-yves hervé <[email hidden]> wrote in
    :"]news:[email hidden]:

    Quoted message said:

    on French TV, less than 5 minutes after the race, he gave a very nice and gracious interview
    (in very good french), gave credit to Ullrich, said the expected "too early to tell, still in
    yellow" reply to the idiotic questions. All in all, I am quite impressed by his gracious,
    smiling, and friendly attitude so far. It's the first time in 3 years that I watch the TdF on
    French TV, and I can hardly believe it is the person as the obnoxious guy who won in 1998. I
    am no Lance fan by any means (been a Jan fan since 1996), but this year, Armstrong's behavior
    has been quite admirable so far (can't say for the last couple of years). I actually find
    miself liking the guy despite miself :-)

    Thanks for posting this. I'd like to know if your perceptions have been influenced by the French
    press this year. The reports we've heard in the past have been that the French press has taken
    every opportunity to smear and criticize Armstrong; are they being less critical this year, or
    maybe even positive from caught up in the 100 years celebrations and all that?

    He has gotten more relaxed and less paranoid in his dealing with the press.

    Indeed, he looks much more relaxed, very confident when interviewed in french. He is smiling, making
    jokes. My perception is not affected much by the french press because I live in the USA 330
    days/year.

    I think that several think contributed to getting Lance's relation to start on the wrong foot, back
    in 1999 (of course, this is all a personal opinion, not the Truth, coming down from the skies). It's
    not the language thing, because Indurain and Ullrich don't speak french either.

    1. Lance, because he had not participated to the 1998 Tour completely misjudged the effect of the
    Festina affair, all the mud dragged day after day. Particularly coming right after Pantani being
    kicked from the Giro, questions about doping *had* to be asked, and his reaction to them was
    stupid, boorish, and quite frankly suspicious. I understand that he took the questions as a form
    of attack, an invasion, but frankly they were quite tame compared to the ones that journalists
    were asking Riis, Ullrich, and Jalabert one year earlier.

    2. I wrote that language was not an issue, but one thing was: Lance never smiled. Ullrich did not
    speak french, but he seemed to be enjoying himself, smiling during interviews. Lance always kept
    the same straight "hard" face.

    3. Cycling takes pride itself on being the sport whose stars are the most accessible. There is no
    other sport where you will see fans touch their stars right before, after, and even during the
    competition. Armstrong came out in 1999 as the distant one, would ignore fans, disappear right
    after the race, give very few interviews, etc.

    4. Even when he bothered to give interviews, they, well... sucked. He just came out as an arrogant,
    not very interesting, jerk.

    As I wrote in my previous post, my memories of Armstrong interviews on French TV dated back from
    2000 (the last time I went back in France for summer), and I am really amazed at the change. Since
    the French journalists don't seem to be surprised, I can only assume that this has been a gradual
    change, in which both sides have learn to appreciate each other.

    Regards,

    jyh.

    --
    =====================================================================
    jean-yves herve' /\ Department of Computer Science \/ e-mail --> [email hidden] and Statistics /\
    University of Rhode Island \/ Tel. --> (401) 874-4400 Kingston, RI 02881-0816 /\ Fax. --> (401)
    874-4617 USA \/
    =====================================================================

  3. Dave said:

    "dwjones" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    "Dave" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    "dwjones" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    >ullrich had a spectaular time trial. however he does not have the team

    to be

    Quoted message said:

    >able to match lance in the Pyrenees

    Sure he does...the team of the current 2nd place rider, Vinokurov

    Dave

    Quoted message said:

    no he doesn't. vinokurov is a member of his previous team

    Duh!...think outside the box for a moment.. Dave

    Let's see Vinokourov is actually in 3rd overall and I'll just bet they ride for him.... and then for
    Vino and Zabel in the following flat stages... no way I see JU getting help form the pink and
    black... Now ONCE on the other hand.... Figure Basque riders beating each other into the ground and
    they have lost Beloki... I bet they're available for deal making.... Plus JU can be opportunistic
    and jump on Basque attacks that look promising.. In reality? he rides right there with LA and Vino
    and limits the damage till the final ITT.

  4. "jean-yves hervé" <[email hidden]> wrote

    Quoted message said:

    It's the first time in 3 years that I watch the TdF on French TV, and I can hardly believe it is
    the person as the obnoxious guy who won in 1998.

    It isn't: the obnoxious guy who won in '98 was Marco Pantani.

    James Thomson

  5. "Fred Marx" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    Dave said:

    "dwjones" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    "Dave" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    >"dwjones" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    >"]news:[email hidden]...
    >
    >>ullrich had a spectaular time trial. however he does not have the team

    to be

    >>able to match lance in the Pyrenees
    >
    >
    >Sure he does...the team of the current 2nd place rider, Vinokurov
    >
    >Dave

    Quoted message said:

    no he doesn't. vinokurov is a member of his previous team

    Duh!...think outside the box for a moment.. Dave

    Let's see Vinokourov is actually in 3rd overall and I'll just bet they ride for him.... and then
    for Vino and Zabel in the following flat stages... no way I see JU getting help form the pink and
    black... Now ONCE on the other hand.... Figure Basque riders beating each other into the ground
    and they have lost Beloki... I bet they're available for deal making.... Plus JU can be
    opportunistic and jump on Basque attacks that look promising.. In reality? he rides right there
    with LA and Vino and limits the damage till the final ITT.

    I have no doubt they ride for Vino, but in an interview (pre-tour) Zabel said he would have no
    problem working for Jan in the right setting. If for some reason Vinokurov falters, I think that may
    be the right setting Dave

  6. In article <[email hidden]>, "James Thomson"

    Quoted message said:

    "jean-yves hervé" <[email hidden]> wrote

    Quoted message said:

    It's the first time in 3 years that I watch the TdF on French TV, and I can hardly believe it is
    the person as the obnoxious guy who won in 1998.

    It isn't: the obnoxious guy who won in '98 was Marco Pantani.

    my bad, I keep confusing these two. :-)

    jyh.

    --
    =====================================================================
    jean-yves herve' /\ Department of Computer Science \/ e-mail --> [email hidden] and Statistics /\
    University of Rhode Island \/ Tel. --> (401) 874-4400 Kingston, RI 02881-0816 /\ Fax. --> (401)
    874-4617 USA \/
    =====================================================================

  7. jean-yves hervé <[email hidden]> wrote in :"]news:[email hidden]:

    Quoted message said:

    Indeed, he looks much more relaxed, very confident when interviewed in french. He is smiling,
    making jokes. My perception is not affected much by the french press because I live in the USA 330
    days/year.

    I think that several think contributed to getting Lance's relation to start on the wrong foot,
    back in 1999 (of course, this is all a personal opinion, not the Truth, coming down from the
    skies). It's not the language thing, because Indurain and Ullrich don't speak french either.

    1. Lance, because he had not participated to the 1998 Tour completely misjudged the effect of the
    Festina affair, all the mud dragged day after day. Particularly coming right after Pantani
    being kicked from the Giro, questions about doping *had* to be asked, and his reaction to them
    was stupid, boorish, and quite frankly suspicious. I understand that he took the questions as a
    form of attack, an invasion, but frankly they were quite tame compared to the ones that
    journalists were asking Riis, Ullrich, and Jalabert one year earlier.

    <snip>

    Quoted message said:

    As I wrote in my previous post, my memories of Armstrong interviews on French TV dated back from
    2000 (the last time I went back in France for summer), and I am really amazed at the change. Since
    the French journalists don't seem to be surprised, I can only assume that this has been a gradual
    change, in which both sides have learn to appreciate each other.

    That all makes sense. I suppose both Lance and the journalists have gradually gotten more relaxed
    over the years since the Festina affair. But back in 1999, the journalists' questions often took the
    form of accusations, like accusing him of doping for treating saddle sores with a cortisone cream.
    So his reaction makes sense too -- after busting your ass on the bike all day, it is better to
    withdraw and seem aloof than be goaded into boorish responses by scandal mongering journalists.

    A friend of mine from Grenoble reported some of the stories he read then. The best was that all the
    riders were using (unnamed) undetectable performance enhancing drugs; the proof that this was true,
    of course, is that they weren't detected. Sorry I mentioned that, 'cuz now this discussion may
    mutate from culture and media into a doping debate.

    Anyway, if Lance loses the Tour this year, it sounds like the French will surely love him. Perhaps
    he'll even become as popular there as Jerry Lewis.

    NS

  8. Nick Burns said:


    "Corey Green" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    It will all come down to the ability to change pace. We all saw what happened when Manuel
    Beltran picked up the pace - Jan was gone. Jan is


    still

    Quoted message said:

    a one-pace climber. When he comes back, he does it at his own pace - he is still strong, but if
    he gets gapped, who knows what will go through his head.


    It is not so much "one pace" but rather that he accelerates more slowly. He needs to attack first.

    You cannot accelerate more slowly and get away.

  9. I've never met one. I congratulate him on his weight loss and not waiting 'til next year to give it
    his best shot.

    "Scott Downie" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    What was it? 1:30 over 45k ? Even the most hardcore Ullrich haters must appreciate that one !

    --
    Irrationally held truths may be more harmfull than reasoned errors. "Rene Clancy"
    <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    Go Jan GO!!!!

  10. "David Ryan" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    Nick Burns said:


    "Corey Green" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    It will all come down to the ability to change pace. We all saw what happened when Manuel
    Beltran picked up the pace - Jan was gone. Jan is


    still

    Quoted message said:

    a one-pace climber. When he comes back, he does it at his own pace -


    he is

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    still strong, but if he gets gapped, who knows what will go through


    his

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    head.


    It is not so much "one pace" but rather that he accelerates more slowly.


    He

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    needs to attack first.

    You cannot accelerate more slowly and get away.

    To be successful, he would have to accelerate at a time that Armstrong is not able to in order to. I
    am obviously not comparing their side by side performance. I am comparing one riders attacking style
    to another's.

  11. "David Ryan" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    It is not so much "one pace" but rather that he accelerates more slowly.


    He

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    needs to attack first.

    You cannot accelerate more slowly and get away.

    Yes you can.

    Any increasing variation in speed can wear down a rider. A rider who is having to react and go even
    faster to catch up will be affected more. If you can't kill them with one powerful attack, multiple
    slower attacks can wear them down until they cannot respond any longer.

  12. Carl Sundquist said:


    "David Ryan" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    It is not so much "one pace" but rather that he accelerates more slowly.


    He

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    needs to attack first.

    You cannot accelerate more slowly and get away.

    Yes you can.

    Any increasing variation in speed can wear down a rider. A rider who is having to react and go
    even faster to catch up will be affected more. If you can't kill them with one powerful attack,
    multiple slower attacks can wear them down until they cannot respond any longer.

    Yeah, if you're much stronger and they're at their limit to begin with.

  13. Stewart Fleming said:


    Jamce1 said:

    interesting to see that all the players took time out of armstrong over the last portion. whats
    up with that?

    How do you lose 7kg of fluid body weight in an hour?

    Slicing your wrists will do it 🙂

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