Under or over seat steering?

[Paul]

In article
<[email protected]>, jd2001
@ameritech.net says...
> Unfortunately there is usually not time for them to get
> out if the tail-heavy condition is severe. The plane will
> very likely snap-roll right after rotation for takeoff and
> dive into the ground taking pilots, skydivers and their
> uni-cycles with it.
>
>
Ooo. I wouldn't want to jump at a DZ run like that. sounds
positivly fatel (
--
.paul

If at first you don't succeed... Skydiving is probably not
the sport for you.

 

[Southbaybent]

[email protected] (Rongmal) wrote in message
> OSS (+) more aero, easier to get bike going from stop,
> easy to pull up to erect position to look back and side at
> intersections, easy to attach accessories. Use Glideflex
> stem for easy bike entry/exit. (-)tiller affect, somewhat
> ubstructed view, arm position not comfortable for some.
>
> Ron

OSS is not always more aero. The Reynolds T-Bone
700/20(406)brings the bar-ends in, up and out of the wind.
It can be quite a bit more aero than the OSS bikes mentioned
here. And I wouldn't hesitate riding it for all of my
riding. So, if you WANT a fast USS bike, You can get one. On
the T-Bone, BTW, the arms are bent naturally and the hands
are positioned very close to the Bacchetta Aero or VK U-bar
positions. Many riders using U-Bar or tiller steering on OSS
bikes lack the proper form and fail to keep the arms in the
shadow of the cranks, feet and legs resulting in rider
induced drag. If you are equipped with an aero-belly your
wings will be out in the breeze on a tiller steerer. Inspite
of what you read above you can follow your preference, USS
or OSS, and have a bike that is aero enough, comfortable
enough and convenient enough for your style of riding. Rob
Lightning and a T-Bone, guess which is faster...

 

[Bentbiker]

not so bad in a Reynolds type set up, where the feet are at
or slightly above the hands, you are almost tucked in under
the thighs, in that nice slipstream from the legs. I would
guess this wouldn't be more than .5 mph disadvantage.

Chris Crawford wrote:
> Even in the tightest USS configurations with the arms
> tucked closely in to the body and the lower arms
> horizontal, the upper arms and hands increase the frontal
> area. With a superman bar (Bachetta) the arms point out
> almost straight from the shoulder joint and add little
> frontal area. With a praying hamster bar the forearms and
> hands can be in front of the chest area thus also reducing
> the total frontal area. In these ASS cases, there is the
> added drag area of the stem and bars but its effect is
> uncertain (does the draft shadow around the bars close and
> then have to re-open around the rider?) In any case I
> would concede that the ASS can have some aerodynamic
> advantages on high performance bikes.
>
> Chris
>
> Cornelius Roberts wrote:
>
>>>> Speed - many have argued that the coefficient of drag
>>>> is greater on USS than it is with USS.
>>
>>
>>
>> That doesn't make a whole lot of sense

 

[Tom Sherman]

Chris Crawford wrote:

> Even in the tightest USS configurations with the arms
> tucked closely in to the body and the lower arms
> horizontal, the upper arms and hands increase the frontal
> area. With a superman bar (Bachetta) the arms point out
> almost straight from the shoulder joint and add little
> frontal area. With a praying hamster bar the forearms and
> hands can be in front of the chest area thus also reducing
> the total frontal area. In these ASS cases, there is the
> added drag area of the stem and bars but its effect is
> uncertain (does the draft shadow around the bars close and
> then have to re-open around the rider?) In any case I
> would concede that the ASS can have some aerodynamic
> advantages on high performance bikes.
>
> Chris
>
> Cornelius Roberts wrote:
>
>>>> Speed - many have argued that the coefficient of drag
>>>> is greater on USS than it is with USS.
>>
>>
>>
>> That doesn't make a whole lot of sense

Mr. Roberts was commenting on Mr. Crawford comparing
USS to USS.

Tom Sherman - Quad Cities (Illinois Side)

 

[Cornelius Rober]

>>>
>>> That doesn't make a whole lot of sense
>
> Mr. Roberts was commenting on Mr. Crawford comparing USS
> to USS.
>
> Tom Sherman - Quad Cities (Illinois Side)

Thanks Tom! They must have missed the Smiley! ; )

 

[Jack Davis]

"paul" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> In article
> <[email protected]>,
> jd2001 @ameritech.net says...
> > Unfortunately there is usually not time for them to get
> > out if the tail-heavy condition is severe. The plane
> > will very likely snap-roll
right
> > after rotation for takeoff and dive into the ground
> > taking pilots,
skydivers
> > and their uni-cycles with it.
> >
> >
> Ooo. I wouldn't want to jump at a DZ run like that. sounds
> positivly fatel (
> --
> .paul
>
> If at first you don't succeed... Skydiving is probably not
> the sport for you.

Paul,

I'm beginning to think that you may be one of those totally
insane S.F. persons that jump from around 300 ft. in the
middle of a moonless night over God-knows-where. One of my
kids flew those guys out of PAFB many times....I never did
hear how they got back....

jd

 

[Danny Colyer]

Simon Brooke theorised:
> ... above seat steering means there are a lot of nasty
> things to hit tender bits of your anatomy on in a
> shunt ...

The first time I rode a friend's new Speed Machine (OSS) (or
rather, the first time I braked hard on a friend's new Speed
Machine), I advised him to reposition the large bell that he
had fitted in the centre of the handlebar and to fit some
pipe lagging. In fact, with his agreement I got my tools out
there and then and moved the bell. And the next time I saw
him he had the centre section of his handlebar lagged.

--
Danny Colyer (the UK company has been laughed out of my reply address)
http://www.speedy5.freeserve.co.uk/danny/
Why I like OE6 - http://www.speedy5.freeserve.co.uk/danny/misc/oe6.html
"He who dares not offend cannot be honest." - Thomas Paine

 

[Dave Larrington]

Simon Brooke wrote:

> This is of course entirely theoretic as I've not yet had
> the pleasure of trying a USS. However, above seat steering
> means there are a lot of nasty things to hit tender bits
> of your anatomy on in a shunt,

This is often advanced as a downside of ASS, but in fourteen
years of crashing and falling off ASS recumbents time
without number, it's never happened to me. In fact, I can
only recall one occurrence of it ever, and given that the
victim was inside a fully-faired carbon-kevlar machine, he
had fewer places to escape than might be the case on
something more conventional.

> and means your arms are hung out in the breeze in a
> moderately uncomfortable position. USS looks to me both
> more comfortable and safer.

From where do people get this idea that ASS is
uncomfortable? I don't find sitting at a desk with my hands
out in front of me operating a keyboard to be uncomfortable,
nor sitting in a car with my hands on a steering wheel. 375
km in 21 hours last summer led to, er, no problems in that
department whatsoever.

I note that the ASS Grasshopper uses a Terracycle
Glideflex stem...

--

Dave Larrington - http://www.legslarry.beerdrinkers.co.uk/
===========================================================
Editor - British Human Power Club Newsletter
http://www.bhpc.org.uk/
===========================================================

 

[Paul]

In article <[email protected]>,
[email protected] says...
> I note that the ASS Grasshopper uses a Terracycle
> Glideflex stem...
>
>
Pardon my ignorance but is this a good thing or a bad thing?
--
.paul

If at first you don't succeed... Skydiving is probably not
the sport for you.

 

[Mike Rice]

On Sun, 14 Mar 2004 00:02:22 +0000 (UTC), paul
<[email protected]> wrote:

> I thik it's VERY unlikely, however, thatI sould EVER feel
> like travleing at 6omph on a pushbike!

YOU might not, but I think it might be great...47 mph
downhill towards Lake Lemon (last year's HIlly Hundred) on
my Tour Easy felt solid as a rock!

Mike Rice

 

[Edward Dolan]

"Jack Davis" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...

[...]

> I had quite a different reaction when my father took me up
> flying when I was very young. I thought it was about the
> greatest thing in the world.

When my father took me up in his airplane he did some loops
and some really steep banks and scared the hell out of me.

But the fact is that I do not like to get into contests with
gravity and centrifugal forces. I have no interest at all in
carnival rides or anything that involves the sense of
falling whether controlled or otherwise. The Merry-Go-Round
is it for me. Even the damn Ferris Wheel scares the hell out
of me. Yet I like heights because of the views I can get.
But my feet have to be firmly anchored on solid ground.

Ed Dolan - Minnesota

PS. I feel the same way about water as I do the air. If God
had meant us to swim, He would have given us fins. As
you can see from this, I am strictly a landlubber. I
leave the air to the birds and the water to the fish.

 

[Edward Dolan]

Graeme <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...

> "Jack Davis" <[email protected]> wrote in
> news:je_4c.11992$t16.7014717 @newssvr28.news.prodigy.com:
>
> > Back when I was flying, any part of the trip was
> > dangerous....
> >
>
> Yeah, I've been flown by pilots like that :-0

My father was one of the original pioneers of flying. He
flew in something called Flying Circuses and would actually
get out and walk on the wings of the airplane while it was
in flight. At the time (1920's) everyone thought that
someday everyone would have an airplane in their garages
next to the house. Never happened! Why? Way, way too
dangerous.

My father gave up flying after a bit when he noticed that
all his flying compatriots were dead from crashes.

My father took me up in his small airplane when I was a kid
and I have never recovered from the experience. To this very
day I refuse to get into any kind of airplane. If God had
wanted us to fly, He would have given us wings.

Ed Dolan - Minnesota

PS. My father's favorite cigarettes was a brand called
Wings. Those damn cigarettes finally killed him of
course. They had the highest nicotine and tar content
rating of any other cigarette. I think they may have
gone out of business by now.

 

[Jack Davis]

"Edward Dolan" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Graeme <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:<[email protected]>...
>
> > "Jack Davis" <[email protected]> wrote in
news:je_4c.11992$t16.7014717
> > @newssvr28.news.prodigy.com:
> >
> > > Back when I was flying, any part of the trip was
> > > dangerous....
> > >
> >
> > Yeah, I've been flown by pilots like that :-0
>
> My father was one of the original pioneers of flying. He
> flew in something called Flying Circuses and would
> actually get out and walk on the wings of the airplane
> while it was in flight. At the time (1920's) everyone
> thought that someday everyone would have an airplane in
> their garages next to the house. Never happened! Why? Way,
> way too dangerous.
>
> My father gave up flying after a bit when he noticed that
> all his flying compatriots were dead from crashes.
>
> My father took me up in his small airplane when I was a
> kid and I have never recovered from the experience. To
> this very day I refuse to get into any kind of airplane.
> If God had wanted us to fly, He would have given us wings.
>
> Ed Dolan - Minnesota
>
> PS. My father's favorite cigarettes was a brand called
> Wings. Those damn cigarettes finally killed him of
> course. They had the highest nicotine and tar content
> rating of any other cigarette. I think they may have
> gone out of business by now.

Ed,

I had quite a different reaction when my father took me up
flying when I was very young. I thought it was about the
greatest thing in the world.

He smoked Camels....death from cancer is not a nice
way to go.

Jack