Understanding heart rates

Solvang Cyclist wrote:
:: 1) How do I determine a good reference point for my sustained HR
:: while riding?

First determine your max.

::
:: 2) How do I determine my max HR? (i.e., is there a better "rule of
:: thumb" that takes into account my low rest HR as well as my age?)
::

Go has hard as you can and record it (going up a steep hill as fast as you
can - after a good warmup - is one way). The highest number you can see is
your max. Set your polar to record data every one second. If you're can
sustain that for more than a few seconds, it's not your max. Then, work to %
of it to answer your first question.

:: 3) What are the consequences of exceeding my max?
::

Don't worry about that. But if you do exceed it, you've found your true
max.

Solvang Cyclist said:

1) How do I determine a good reference point for my sustained HR while
riding?

Do a ride of the distance you are aiming for where you feel good and
are achieve your goals at your current level of fitness. Then try to
go faster at that same HR.

Quoted message said:

2) How do I determine my max HR? (i.e., is there a better "rule of
thumb" that takes into account my low rest HR as well as my age?)

There is no rule that works well. One way to determine maximum HR is
with a stress test where you run or ride at increasingly higher
intensity until you are going all out. It's often recommended that
this be done under a doctor's supervision is you haven't had much
background in sports, have a history (yourself or in your family) of
heart disease, or if you are over a certain age, perhaps over 40.

Quoted message said:

3) What are the consequences of exceeding my max?

You can't exceed your maximum heart rate -- if you exceed some number
you think was your maximum, that number was wrong.

--
JT
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Solvang Cyclist said:

According to the "common" guideline, my max HR should be around 174.
(220-46). However, on rides, I typically exceed that for much of the ride
and will see rates over 180 on hard climbs - I seem to really max out if
I get to about 185bpm pushing up a truly hard hill.

Then your maximum heart rate is simply high for your age. The 220-age
formula is only a very rough guideline, and when you know better you
shouldn't pay any attention to it. 185 is probably close to your
maximum heart rate, but few people are able to hit the maximum "out
there". It's a lot easier on a stationary bike in a controlled test.

Quoted message said:

2) How do I determine my max HR? (i.e., is there a better "rule of
thumb" that takes into account my low rest HR as well as my age?)

A classic way is to use a stationary bike with a power meter. You start by
pedaling with a very low resistance, about 100 W or so, and then raise
the power by 25 watts every two minutes, for example. Eventually you'll
reach the point where you simply can not continue anymore, and your
heart rate should be very close to your maximum.

Quoted message said:

3) What are the consequences of exceeding my max?

That is something you by definition can not do.

Antti

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Solvang Cyclist said:

3) What are the consequences of exceeding my max?

You will pass out. Feeling the upcoming doom your body will start
noodling shortly before then, so don't worry about it.

For some reason StarTrac stationary trainers in work gym don't show
heart rates in excess of 195. But, then, their max resistance level
on alpine rides is a poor joke.

Check out this web site by Dr. steven sieler http://home.hia.no/~stephens/index.html
all is revealed!!! He really lays out the basics clearly. What has
worked for me is to build endurance by training at about 85% of
HRMax. If your getting up to 185 observed, then just figure your
HRMax is 185-190 (not bad for your age!) By doing that you in the
zone below LT Lactic THreshold, the point at which you create lactic
acid and muscle burn -- save that realm for short sprints. This
winter I did sets on the spin bike of 8 min at 85% and 4 min at 65%,
repeated 4 times and it really helped a lot. Good luck!

Solvang Cyclist said:

I have a heart rate monitor but I'm lacking in education on how to use it
while training.

First off, I'm certainly no racer. My goals are only to et a good workout
and to enjoy century rides and not suffer so much on the hills. (Just did
the Solvang Century last week end and while I felt fine at the end,
really struggled on the 1100ft climb up Foxen Cyn at about mile 90 -
stopping a couple of times to catch my breath.)

According to the "common" guideline, my max HR should be around 174.
(220-46). However, on rides, I typically exceed that for much of the ride
and will see rates over 180 on hard climbs - I seem to really max out if
I get to about 185bpm pushing up a truly hard hill.

My rest rate has always been low: today after a couple of cups of joe
it's now 47bpm PB 117/73.

So the questions I have are:

1) How do I determine a good reference point for my sustained HR while
riding?

2) How do I determine my max HR? (i.e., is there a better "rule of
thumb" that takes into account my low rest HR as well as my age?)

3) What are the consequences of exceeding my max?

BTW: I don't want to start a flame war about the lack of value of HR vs.
VO2 max or power meters. As I noted, I'm a recreational rider and don't
intend to invest in this beyond the Polar watch. I just want to
understand how to use the data better.

Thanks,
David

Thanks everyone for the link and the explanations. I understand much more
now:

HRmax is jsut that: the maximum heart rate (as opposed to some "safe"
limit as I had previously assumed.)

So if I assume my HRmax is about 187 and my rest rate is 47, then my
reserve is 140. If I want to ride at 85% of VO2max, I would add 85% of
the 138 (or 119bpm) to my rest rate to get 166bpm for my training ride.

Now all I need to figure out is the programming of my Polar watch. <grin>

Cheers,
David

Andy said:

Check out this web site by Dr. steven sieler
http://home.hia.no/~stephens/index.html all is revealed!!! He really
lays out the basics clearly. What has worked for me is to build
endurance by training at about 85% of HRMax. If your getting up to 185
observed, then just figure your HRMax is 185-190 (not bad for your age!)
By doing that you in the zone below LT Lactic THreshold, the point at
which you create lactic acid and muscle burn -- save that realm for
short sprints. This winter I did sets on the spin bike of 8 min at 85%
and 4 min at 65%, repeated 4 times and it really helped a lot. Good
luck!

Solvang Cyclist said:

I have a heart rate monitor but I'm lacking in education on how to use
it while training.

First off, I'm certainly no racer. My goals are only to et a good
workout and to enjoy century rides and not suffer so much on the hills.
(Just did the Solvang Century last week end and while I felt fine at
the end, really struggled on the 1100ft climb up Foxen Cyn at about
mile 90 - stopping a couple of times to catch my breath.)

According to the "common" guideline, my max HR should be around 174.
(220-46). However, on rides, I typically exceed that for much of the
ride and will see rates over 180 on hard climbs - I seem to really max
out if I get to about 185bpm pushing up a truly hard hill.

My rest rate has always been low: today after a couple of cups of joe
it's now 47bpm PB 117/73.

So the questions I have are:

1) How do I determine a good reference point for my sustained HR while
riding?

2) How do I determine my max HR? (i.e., is there a better "rule of
thumb" that takes into account my low rest HR as well as my age?)

3) What are the consequences of exceeding my max?

BTW: I don't want to start a flame war about the lack of value of HR
vs. VO2 max or power meters. As I noted, I'm a recreational rider and
don't intend to invest in this beyond the Polar watch. I just want to
understand how to use the data better.

Thanks,
David

"SolvangCyclist" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Thanks everyone for the link and the explanations. I understand much more
now:

HRmax is jsut that: the maximum heart rate (as opposed to some "safe"
limit as I had previously assumed.)

So if I assume my HRmax is about 187 and my rest rate is 47, then my
reserve is 140. If I want to ride at 85% of VO2max, I would add 85% of
the 138 (or 119bpm) to my rest rate to get 166bpm for my training ride.

Now all I need to figure out is the programming of my Polar watch. <grin>

Cheers,
David

Also, in practical terms, when you exceed your personal max rate you're
going to feel sick. If you get nauseous or dizzy, you're pushing too hard.

I'm a cardiovascular tech and do a lot of stress echocardiography exams.
The target heart rate that we use is 85% of 220 minus age.

If someone is still feeling OK at that target rate, I will let them continue
if they wish to. Others will need to stop at target rate or sometimes prior
to attaining it. It has to do with fitness and conditioning.

Ed Chait, RDCS, RVT

On Wed, 21 Mar 2007 23:34:37 -0500, SolvangCyclist <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

HRmax is jsut that: the maximum heart rate (as opposed to some "safe"
limit as I had previously assumed.)

So if I assume my HRmax is about 187 and my rest rate is 47, then my
reserve is 140. If I want to ride at 85% of VO2max, I would add 85% of
the 138 (or 119bpm) to my rest rate to get 166bpm for my training ride.

Now all I need to figure out is the programming of my Polar watch. <grin>

I think basing training zones off of maximum heart rate is not as good
as basing training zones off of either:

your functional threshold heart rate -- the heart rate you can sustain
for a maximum effort of 20 to 60 minutes

or

the heart rate you can sustain on a satisfying ride over the distance
that is important to you.

You should base your training around one of these.
--
JT
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Ed Chait said:

when you exceed your personal max rate you're
going to feel sick. If you get nauseous or dizzy,
you're pushing too hard.

Exceeding a maximum is a bizarre concept.

--
JT
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establish (record) average pulse, waking, noon, before after
excercise, eating.
if after a beyond max workout or several you're heart rate is slower
than average after waking, moving into the day's routine then the
beyond max workout was beyond max-the workout did more harm than good.

"John Forrest Tomlinson" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Ed Chait said:

when you exceed your personal max rate you're
going to feel sick. If you get nauseous or dizzy,
you're pushing too hard.

Exceeding a maximum is a bizarre concept.

--
JT

Not when you're stress testing a population in which many are cardiac
patients with histories of prior MI's and/or bypass surgery🙂.

Ed Chait, RDCS, RVT

On Wed, 21 Mar 2007 18:47:13 -0400, Roger Zoul <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Solvang Cyclist wrote:
:: 1) How do I determine a good reference point for my sustained HR
:: while riding?

First determine your max.

::
:: 2) How do I determine my max HR? (i.e., is there a better "rule of
:: thumb" that takes into account my low rest HR as well as my age?)
::

Go has hard as you can and record it (going up a steep hill as fast as
you
can - after a good warmup - is one way). The highest number you can see
is
your max. Set your polar to record data every one second. If you're can
sustain that for more than a few seconds, it's not your max. Then, work
to %
of it to answer your first question.

:: 3) What are the consequences of exceeding my max?
::

Don't worry about that. But if you do exceed it, you've found your true
max.

Also note that your max might change with time. For instance, early in
the season, I'll hit around 183-185. Later in the season, I'll get
nowhere near that, regardless of how hard I try.

--
Bob in CT

Ed Chait said:

"SolvangCyclist" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Thanks everyone for the link and the explanations. I understand much
more
now:

HRmax is jsut that: the maximum heart rate (as opposed to some "safe"
limit as I had previously assumed.)

So if I assume my HRmax is about 187 and my rest rate is 47, then my
reserve is 140. If I want to ride at 85% of VO2max, I would add 85% of
the 138 (or 119bpm) to my rest rate to get 166bpm for my training ride.

Now all I need to figure out is the programming of my Polar watch.
<grin>

Cheers,
David

Also, in practical terms, when you exceed your personal max rate you're
going to feel sick. If you get nauseous or dizzy, you're pushing too
hard.

I'm a cardiovascular tech and do a lot of stress echocardiography exams.
The target heart rate that we use is 85% of 220 minus age.

If someone is still feeling OK at that target rate, I will let them
continue
if they wish to. Others will need to stop at target rate or sometimes
prior
to attaining it. It has to do with fitness and conditioning.

Ed Chait, RDCS, RVT

For me, 85% of 220 - age = 151. On my rides, my average heart rate is
usually above this level. Typical averages are in the 155-160 HR range.
Averages above 160 means wind or something else. Below 155 means that I
must've had multiple flats.

--
Bob in CT

On Mar 22, 5:14 am, John Forrest Tomlinson <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

On Thu, 22 Mar 2007 10:44:32 GMT, "Ed Chait"

Quoted message said:

when you exceed your personal max rate you're
going to feel sick. If you get nauseous or dizzy,
you're pushing too hard.

Exceeding a maximum is a bizarre concept.

Hmm... your reaction might be a little over the top...

Quoted message said:

Bob in CT-

bob, go for a scan before it's too late!

Dans le message de news:[email hidden],
John Forrest Tomlinson <[email hidden]> a réfléchi, et puis a
déclaré :

Quoted message said:

Ed Chait said:

"John Forrest Tomlinson" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

On Thu, 22 Mar 2007 10:44:32 GMT, "Ed Chait"
<[email hidden]> wrote:

> when you exceed your personal max rate you're
> going to feel sick. If you get nauseous or dizzy,
> you're pushing too hard.

Exceeding a maximum is a bizarre concept.

Not when you're stress testing a population in which many are cardiac
patients with histories of prior MI's and/or bypass surgery🙂.

I don't know if you're being serious or not. If you are, how can
someone's HR go over their maximum? But definition it can't.

I think the heart rate maximum that immediately precedes a long period of
zero rate pretty well defines a maximum. Hard to reproduce such a test,
though.
--
Bonne route !

Sandy
Verneuil-sur-Seine FR

Sandy said:

Dans le message denews:[email hidden],
John Forrest Tomlinson <[email hidden]> a réfléchi, et puisa
déclaré :

Quoted message said:

On Thu, 22 Mar 2007 15:37:39 GMT, "Ed Chait"
<[email hidden]> wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

"John Forrest Tomlinson" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
> On Thu, 22 Mar 2007 10:44:32 GMT, "Ed Chait"
> <[email hidden]> wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

>> when you exceed your personal max rate you're
>> going to feel sick. If you get nauseous or dizzy,
>> you're pushing too hard.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> Exceeding a maximum is a bizarre concept.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Not when you're stress testing a population in which many are cardiac
patients with histories of prior MI's and/or bypass surgery🙂.

Quoted message said:

I don't know if you're being serious or not. If you are, how can
someone's HR go over their maximum? But definition it can't.

I think the heart rate maximum that immediately precedes a long period of
zero rate pretty well defines a maximum. Hard to reproduce such a test,
though.

Not hard, you just need a new subject.

Ed Chait said:

"John Forrest Tomlinson" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Ed Chait said:

when you exceed your personal max rate you're
going to feel sick. If you get nauseous or dizzy,
you're pushing too hard.

Exceeding a maximum is a bizarre concept.

Not when you're stress testing a population in which many are cardiac
patients with histories of prior MI's and/or bypass surgery🙂.

I don't know if you're being serious or not. If you are, how can
someone's HR go over their maximum? But definition it can't.
--
JT
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