rec.sport.unicycling · Public discussion

Uni assault on a car (literally)

Started by David Stone · · Last activity · 49 posts · 1,217 views

Thread navigation

Jump through the discussion

Go to the original post, the replies on this page, or the latest preserved contribution.

Thread details

What we know about this thread

Original section
rec.sport.unicycling
Published
2 February 2005
Last activity
24 July 2005
Original author
David Stone
Posts
49
Discussion status
Public discussion
Total views
1,217
Views / 30 days
0

The navigation and discussion metadata provide context. Posts remain in their original chronological order.

Showing posts 1–20 of 49
Posts remain in their original chronological order.

Text size
  1. Today I lived out a dream. Sort of like when you think of a snappy
    comeback later on, only this time I'd had it happen to me enough times
    that I was able to think of the snappy comeback right away. Details:

    I was pedaling my 29"er at a moderate rate on an empty sidewalk cleared of
    most of the snow. As I was crossing the somewhat snowy street where I had
    a green light, a car came too fast around the corner, cutting me off. The
    car was driving too close (legally speaking) to the corner, and this gave
    me too little time to slow down, esp with the snow. The car slowed a bit
    in order to negotiate the turn. Just before I would have hit the car, I
    jumped off the uni and swung it hard-ish into the lower side of the car,
    denting in (or cutting) a square area near the gas thingy. It helped that
    I had metal pedals. The car never slowed, but if it had, I'd have
    apologized for accidentally bumping it with my uni when I had to jump off
    in order to avoid it when it cut me off.

    I still haven't leapt onto a dog-walker*, but as I've written in the past,
    it always helps to be prepared.

    David

    * Dog-walker: If a dog-walker is letting a dog off a leash (illegal in
    NYC) and the dog suddenly runs in your path, avoid the dog. But if the
    only way to avoid hurting yourself is to use the dog-walker as a bummper,
    don't hesitate. Best to avoid this by slowing down ahead of time. I've
    ridden past many dogs leashed and otherwise and have never had to dismount
    bc I always take it slowly.

  2. David,

    Glad you're okay. Where did you say you lived? New York? Hmmm....
    🙂

    Bruce

    --
    yoopers - Bruce & Mary Edwards

    Of professional wrestling, Sarah Miller says, "The competition element
    is all part of the "plot"..."Its pantomime in lycra."
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------
    yoopers's Profile: http://www.unicyclist.com/profile/31
    View this thread: http://www.unicyclist.com/thread/38013

  3. As an avid cyclist (road, MT. and now UNI/MUNI) I as well as many others
    have been in your shoes. I have been [censored], yelled, screamed, etc. but
    have also realized that if I do that, it makes me look like the ASS.
    Downtown in traffic in the snow? Maybe they didnt see you.
    Maybe they had a burger in one hand, a cell phone in the other, and
    adjusted the radio so loud they couldnt hear anything. But all the
    other people on the street that watched you smash your crank into the
    side of a car thought that you my friend.... the one on the UNICYCLE are
    a complete [censored]. So, you made your point to the guy in the car, and
    you also made your point about UNICYCLIST to the other 20 people that
    just caught a glimpz of what you did.
    In my opinion, just because the light is green, that doesnt give you
    the all clear to ride, it gives you the warning to ride. I ride
    downtown often, and anyone that does has close calls. Ever been kicked
    out of private property? Bet it was by a guy that watched a UNICYCLIST
    tear up a car by the "gas thingy."

    --
    steve0we - Just removed training wheel!

    This is Wheelie Wheelie FUN!
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------
    steve0we's Profile: http://www.unicyclist.com/profile/8643
    View this thread: http://www.unicyclist.com/thread/38013

  4. Glad you're OK. How long until your heart rate came back to normal?

    A good reminder that even if you have the right of way to watch traffic
    closely. As a driver I am sometimes taken by surprise by someone
    crossing at a higher rate of travel than normal. In otherwords, we're
    programed to watch and anticipate people crossing at a walking speed.
    When a runner or biker comes from the sidewalk it can catch you off
    guard.

    Different cities have different etiquette, or lack therof. I was driving
    in SF, waiting for the pedestrian traffic to completely clear before
    making a right turn. My passenger couldn't figure out why I was waiting
    so long and was surprised I wasn't getting honked at yet, I guess the
    average SF driver would have gone through a smaller gap than us Seattle
    drivers would.

    --
    UniBrier - Its Time to Ride

    Steve

    Do your feet smell? Does you nose run?...You may be built upside down.
    -Old joke I found in a Mad Magazine many moons ago.

    ------------------------------------------------------------------------
    UniBrier's Profile: http://www.unicyclist.com/profile/1404
    View this thread: http://www.unicyclist.com/thread/38013

  5. David Stone said:

    *I still haven't leapt onto a dog-walker*, but as I've written in the
    past,
    it always helps to be prepared.

    David

    * Dog-walker: If a dog-walker is letting a dog off a leash (illegal
    in
    NYC) and the dog suddenly runs in your path, avoid the dog. But if
    the
    only way to avoid hurting yourself is to use the dog-walker as a
    bummper,
    don't hesitate. Best to avoid this by slowing down ahead of time.
    I've
    ridden past many dogs leashed and otherwise and have never had to
    dismount
    bc I always take it slowly. *

    [RANT]Well said. IMO all pet dogs (allowing an exception for useful
    dogs like guide dogs) should be banned and owning a dog should be a
    criminal offense. I've lost count of the number of times I've been
    attacked by the vile creatures, on bikes, unicycles or on foot (that's
    me BTW, I've never seen a dog on a bike). There is no such thing as a
    responsible dog owner - they all seem to be under the delusion that
    everybody must love their pet and being barked at, licked or bitten will
    make our day. The last dog encounter I had was a couple of weeks ago
    when the animal went for me from some distance away, probably 20 or 30
    yards. I was on my 26" and just carried on riding at the mutt hoping it
    would give up like they usually do, but it just jumped at me, slammed me
    to the ground and tried to bite my ankle (luckily I had shinpads on so
    it couldn't do any damage). The dog's owner had a go at ME for scaring
    their poor little pet ("you must be careful, he can be a bit funny if
    you take him by surprise"😉. The fact that it watched me from a distance
    before laying into me didn't seem to count. Dogs just have no right to
    exist. [/RANT]

    * Dons asbestos jacket *

    --
    rob.northcott - Unofficial level 2, on a good day
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------
    rob.northcott's Profile: http://www.unicyclist.com/profile/7436
    View this thread: http://www.unicyclist.com/thread/38013

  6. when walking around dogs LOVE me : it's funny because I do not love dogs
    -though I am not afraid of them-!
    (must be the smell)
    I've seen fierce moloss come to me to make friends (this annoys some
    macho-masters!)

    But when on a uni everything changes: every mummy's poodle just turn out
    to be agressive.
    Is it that dogs do not like Unis? (or is it my cranks that make
    ultrasonic qweeks?)

    --
    wobbling bear - GranPa goes-a-wobblin'

    -Einradfreude- por los Munificent
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------
    wobbling bear's Profile: http://www.unicyclist.com/profile/3716
    View this thread: http://www.unicyclist.com/thread/38013

  7. rob.northcott said:

    *[RANT]Well said. IMO all pet dogs (allowing an exception for useful
    dogs like guide dogs) should be banned and owning a dog should be a
    criminal offense. I've lost count of the number of times I've been
    attacked by the vile creatures, on bikes, unicycles or on foot (that's
    me BTW, I've never seen a dog on a bike). There is no such thing as a
    responsible dog owner - they all seem to be under the delusion that
    everybody must love their pet and being barked at, licked or bitten
    will make our day. The last dog encounter I had was a couple of weeks
    ago when the animal went for me from some distance away, probably 20
    or 30 yards. I was on my 26" and just carried on riding at the mutt
    hoping it would give up like they usually do, but it just jumped at
    me, slammed me to the ground and tried to bite my ankle (luckily I had
    shinpads on so it couldn't do any damage). The dog's owner had a go
    at ME for scaring their poor little pet ("you must be careful, he can
    be a bit funny if you take him by surprise"😉. The fact that it
    watched me from a distance before laying into me didn't seem to count.
    Dogs just have no right to exist. [/RANT]

    * Dons asbestos jacket * *

    hahahahhah wow

    --
    mango - unity - as 1 stand together

    http://www.unicyclist.com/gallery/albuv16

    "Yeah, well, he gives me presents, so I care not if he's the devil."
    -James_Potter
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------
    mango's Profile: http://www.unicyclist.com/profile/3892
    View this thread: http://www.unicyclist.com/thread/38013

  8. Good thing the car didnt stop.

    It kind of reminds me when I was riding my road bike over the summer a
    truck pulled up besides me then started running me into the guard rail
    of a bridge. I hit my brakes to avoid getting run over and pounded on
    the glass of his passanger side window with my hand to let him know he
    was running me off the road.

    Well I soon turned off the bridge and see the truck pass me agian, this
    time really fast and with plenty of room he ended up parking about 400
    feet in front of me got out of his truck and then takeled me off my bike
    as I came by. I really wasnt expecting any of this but when I saw he was
    running directly in front of me with both hands fisted (unavoidable hit)
    I drove my bike right into him and smashed the front break flying over
    my bars launching with my hands directlly in his chest pushing him back
    a few feet.

    This guy continued to go on about how his truck was worth more than my
    life and that he was going to beat the [censored] out of me. So I got right
    back and just started pushing him around and prepairing for my beating
    (the guy was easily twice my size) Lucky for me though, I think I acted
    crazy enough that I intimedated this guy and he backed off after 5 min
    of yelling and pushing. I ended up walking away with only a bloody knee
    and a bruse on my arm from hitting the pavement after going over the
    top.

    Anyway I'm glad to hear that you walked away unharmed and left that car
    with something to remember his actions.

    Cheers
    Mike

    --
    Checkernuts - Me Fail English? That's Unpossible

    No one said it was gonna be easy and I'm not afraid to try, with the
    odds stacked up against me I will have to fight, One Life One Wheel got
    to do it right. H20

    ------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Checkernuts's Profile: http://www.unicyclist.com/profile/801
    View this thread: http://www.unicyclist.com/thread/38013

  9. steve0we said:

    *Maybe they had a burger in one hand, a cell phone in the other, and
    adjusted the radio so loud they couldnt hear anything. But all the
    other people on the street that watched you smash your crank into the
    side of a car thought that you my friend.... the one on the UNICYCLE
    are a complete [censored].*


    David didn't do anything I can recommend, but it seems you are
    absolving the driver of all responsibility. David's unicycle weighs 15
    pounds or so, while the car weighs at least 100 times as much. The
    driver of the car, in theory, has at least 100 times the responsibility
    not to hit unprotected pedestrians/cyclists. You seem to suggest that
    all car drivers should be given the benefit of the doubt, every time.

    I can't agree. Though it is true a cyclist or pedestrian must always be
    ready for drivers to make mistakes, that does not mean the mistakes are
    okay.

    I have never been to San Antonio, but I am familiar with the "traffic
    culture" in NYC. Car traffic is constant, and you can either be
    aggressive or be a victim. If one chooses to ride a unicycle on a snowy
    sidewalk, or actually *commute* that way on a regular basis, I'd guess
    that person is going to be a bit aggressive, or at least assertive of
    his rights.

    The driver either ignored David coming down the sidewalk or didn't see
    him entirely. The area was snowy, but I don't think it was snow-ing.
    Yes, the driver might have a burger in one hand and cell phone in the
    other. This does not reduce his responsibilities to not hit people.

    The result of what happened is interesting in that the driver "never
    slowed" even though he must have known his car made contact with
    something. I think in court this could be called a hit and run. If the
    driver wasn't looking, he doesn't know what hit him, or what he hit. But
    if he's driving in NYC, he does know he's supposed to yield to
    pedestrians on a green light.

    Hmm. is David a 'pedestrian' when cycling on the sidewalk? That's
    another question I guess.

    So, though one part of me pumps its arm in the air and says "YES!!" the
    other part knows that his actions will not "cure" that driver, and if he
    *had* stopped, all sorts of bad stuff might have ensued.

    I'm glad it worked out okay David, but what happens next time that guy
    sees you? I know you're not 'blending in' with all the other unicyclists
    out there... 🙂

    --
    johnfoss - The wilder Wilder

    John Foss, the Uni-Cyclone
    "jfoss" at "unicycling.com" -- www.unicycling.com

    "Read the rules!" -- 'IUF Rulebook'
    (http://www.unicycling.org/iuf/rulebook/) -- 'USA Rulebook'
    (http://www.unicycling.org/usa/competition/)
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------
    johnfoss's Profile: http://www.unicyclist.com/profile/832
    View this thread: http://www.unicyclist.com/thread/38013

  10. wobbling bear said:

    *But when on a uni everything changes: every mummy's poodle just turn
    out to be agressive.
    Is it that dogs do not like Unis? (or is it my cranks that make
    ultrasonic qweeks?) *


    I know it's not sound, because I've noticed it with dogs all through
    the years, on many different unis. I think it's the motion. A person
    walking looks one way, a person running looks another way, and a person
    on a bike also looks a certain way. A person on a unicycle doesn't move
    like any of those familiar images, so it gets the dog's attention.

    Now I know many dogs have a chase instinct, which makes them want to run
    after things. I don't claim to know how it works, but I think I know
    enough about dogs to say they have some hard-wired programming that
    controls most of their actions. Obviously they're not hard-wired for
    unicycles, but perhaps because they're seeing something unfamiliar, they
    go into a "protective" mode or something, presumably to protect their
    territory, or their masters.

    Dogs definitely notice unicycles, even if they don't make big reactions.
    I've noticed many, many times over the years when passing by dogs how
    some of them just stare and turn their heads sideways. You know they
    don't do that for every passing bike or pedestrian.

    --
    johnfoss - The wilder Wilder

    John Foss, the Uni-Cyclone
    "jfoss" at "unicycling.com" -- www.unicycling.com

    "Read the rules!" -- 'IUF Rulebook'
    (http://www.unicycling.org/iuf/rulebook/) -- 'USA Rulebook'
    (http://www.unicycling.org/usa/competition/)
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------
    johnfoss's Profile: http://www.unicyclist.com/profile/832
    View this thread: http://www.unicyclist.com/thread/38013

  11. Sorry folks, but I can't condone aggressive behavior in response to
    careless or stupid driving. Aggression just promotes more aggression
    and usually accomplishies nothing in educating the party that needs
    educated. the person who gets beat up or has personal property damaged
    usually reflects on how to get even or where to take martial arts
    classes. I don't think many of them reflect on the initial philosphy
    that caused the inappropriate behavior.

    David, glad to hear you are okay. I am a considerate driver, for
    pedestrians, bikers and uni riders, but sometimes I make a careless
    mistake while driving my car. Would I deserve a dent in my car if your
    where there during my careless moment? I hope not.

    Spectators seeing an aggressive act in response to a careless driver is
    more likely to cause ill will for unicyclists than a passive response.
    A passive response is more likely to get a compassionate response from a
    non-uni spectator.

    With all this said, I am guilty of having experiences where I wanted to
    get even or would have probably gotten into a potential fight with an
    encounter with inconsiderate people. Many or these times I've been on
    my bike or unicycle. So it's easy for me to preach, but hard to do.
    Please consider a passive response OR a civilized and educated response
    to the inconsiderate people of the world. I think we'll all be better
    for it.

    Excuse, while I hop off of my soapbox. Of course, I'll be hopping off
    on my uni while doing a 360. 😄

    Bill

    --
    billham

    Starting a local unicycle club! Averaging 20 riders for our weekly
    practices.
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------
    billham's Profile: http://www.unicyclist.com/profile/4625
    View this thread: http://www.unicyclist.com/thread/38013

  12. I , too, have mixed feelings about this. David, I'm glad you didn't get
    hurt or killed, but now you're a target if that idiot ever spots you
    again!!!!!!! Unicyclists are in small numbers in most locales and if
    there are any other unicyclists in your area, that "carless idiot" may
    take out his revenge on another innocent unicyclist.
    Where I live, road rage can be pretty severe, so I try not retaliate
    against such "brain-dead drivers", especially if I'm traveling on
    somethingthat offers no form of protection (bike,uni, etc). Once again,
    I'm glad you're o.k., but try not to let quick reflexes and bad judgment
    cause you to make a possibly fatal mistake 😉

    --
    Krashin'Kenny - Crash Tested

    If you ain't crashing, you ain't going fast enough!!!!!!!!!!!

    ------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Krashin'Kenny's Profile: http://www.unicyclist.com/profile/3420
    View this thread: http://www.unicyclist.com/thread/38013

  13. Checkernuts said:

    *Anyway I'm glad to hear that you walked away unharmed and left that
    car with something to remember his actions.

    Cheers
    Mike *

    Ditto, like Mike said.

    --
    Chrashing - Just Lucky

    Regards,
    Chrashing
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Chrashing's Profile: http://www.unicyclist.com/profile/7501
    View this thread: http://www.unicyclist.com/thread/38013

  14. DigitalDave said:

    *Just as there are people who witnessed the event, who would say you
    were in the wrong.. there are others that would say you had the right
    ... *


    Hmmm.

    Had the right to what? Certainly not to deliberately make a dent in the
    car. That's where a different type of dismount is in order. I'm not
    suggesting actually trying this, as the timing would have to be precise
    and it would be more dangerous to both you and the uni.

    But, in my mind, I'm seeing the unicycle shoot out in front of me, aimed
    at one of the softer sheetmetal areas of the car's door or rear quarter.
    Oops. I'm lucky it wasn't me, instead of my unicycle! Now what are
    witnesses going to say?

    So I'll add myself to the group who are reminding you that it's easy to
    think of all this after the fact. I can understand David's actions on
    the spur of the moment and if I were a witness to the event I would
    surely back him up in court.

    --
    johnfoss - The wilder Wilder

    John Foss, the Uni-Cyclone
    "jfoss" at "unicycling.com" -- www.unicycling.com

    "Read the rules!" -- 'IUF Rulebook'
    (http://www.unicycling.org/iuf/rulebook/) -- 'USA Rulebook'
    (http://www.unicycling.org/usa/competition/)
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------
    johnfoss's Profile: http://www.unicyclist.com/profile/832
    View this thread: http://www.unicyclist.com/thread/38013

  15. johnfoss said:

    *Hmmm.

    Had the right to what? Certainly not to deliberately make a dent in
    the car. That's where a different type of dismount is in order. I'm
    not suggesting actually trying this, as the timing would have to be
    precise and it would be more dangerous to both you and the uni.

    But, in my mind, I'm seeing the unicycle shoot out in front of me,
    aimed at one of the softer sheetmetal areas of the car's door or rear
    quarter. Oops. I'm lucky it wasn't me, instead of my unicycle! Now
    what are witnesses going to say?

    So I'll add myself to the group who are reminding you that it's easy
    to think of all this after the fact. I can understand David's actions
    on the spur of the moment and if I were a witness to the event I would
    surely back him up in court. *

    Tho I am in fact the perpetrator, I totally agree with Foss here. I
    definitely did NOT have the right to smack the car like I did. I believe
    that in this rare case, the conditions were perfect, and I've already
    mentioned some of them (no witnesses), but others were: moving car, me
    going in a separate direction towards an area of heavy pedestrian
    activity, the fact that the car couldn't back up towards me in time, and
    so on. But what I mean by 'perfect' is that I was able to get away with
    something, not behave 'correctly' because the correct way to behave is
    to avoid getting hurt and then to grumble to yourself about bad drivers.
    I just decided to change this last part. And I certainly don't advocate
    smacking cars with your uni as I did.

    I should also point out that I was totally in the right until the car
    barrelled thru the turn. There was nothing wrong with how I was riding
    (not too fast, slowing down at the light, watching for pedestrians, not
    eating sushi) and I had every right to be there (according to NYC law).
    My only thought after smacking the car was that I might have to alter my
    route, but even that was figured into the equation, because I almost
    never ride on that street.

    I'm thrilled about all the nice comments I've gotten on this incident.
    Most of you realize I didn't do the 'right' thing but merely did
    something that at least some of us feel was deserved. Yes, I believe
    that drivers have to be vigilant ALL THE TIME. I own two cars (and I
    live in NYC! -- thank dog for my driveway), and when I drive, I am SUPER
    CAREFUL about the bike lane (as well as pedestrians, etc). Had I been
    the one to cut off a biker by error, I would have taken pretty much any
    abuse the person could lay out, including a pedal to the gas thingy. Not
    sure this driver would agree, tho.

    --
    David_Stone
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------
    David_Stone's Profile: http://www.unicyclist.com/profile/3834
    View this thread: http://www.unicyclist.com/thread/38013

  16. ... hmmm .....

    I'm not saying it's 'right' to smak the car... hehe...
    I'm saying he's got the right to 'react'... 😄

    It's like when someone says something about your sister or your mom,,,
    you dont have the 'right' to remove his front teeth... but,, you do have
    the 'right' to set him straight 😄

    Just my 2c...

    Although, my sediment about 'the revenge factor' is wrong...
    ... and you could possibly pay 'restitution' ...

    It's still puts a 'reminder' in the offenders head

    😄

    --
    DigitalDave - scabless

    'nf7-s ~ xp2400mobile'
    (http://www.anandtech.com/mysystemrig.html?rigid=21988)
    '20,124 3dm01' (http://service.futuremark.com/compare?2k1=8399731)

    my will to live was stronger than my will to die. - iggy pop
    that which does not kill me, makes me stronger. - friedrich nietzsche
    1899

    ------------------------------------------------------------------------
    DigitalDave's Profile: http://www.unicyclist.com/profile/8003
    View this thread: http://www.unicyclist.com/thread/38013

  17. Now you have to hope this one never goes to court. If it does, all this
    "testimony" is just sitting here....

    --
    johnfoss - The wilder Wilder

    John Foss, the Uni-Cyclone
    "jfoss" at "unicycling.com" -- www.unicycling.com

    "Read the rules!" -- 'IUF Rulebook'
    (http://www.unicycling.org/iuf/rulebook/) -- 'USA Rulebook'
    (http://www.unicycling.org/usa/competition/)
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------
    johnfoss's Profile: http://www.unicyclist.com/profile/832
    View this thread: http://www.unicyclist.com/thread/38013

  18. True... we could ask out friendly Admin to remove it though ... 😄

    Just a note on my ... post above....

    Your sister or your mom would want you to 'react' ...
    (maybe not verbally ... but in thier heart ,,, they know it's love 🙂 )

    --
    DigitalDave - scabless

    'nf7-s ~ xp2400mobile'
    (http://www.anandtech.com/mysystemrig.html?rigid=21988)
    '20,124 3dm01' (http://service.futuremark.com/compare?2k1=8399731)

    my will to live was stronger than my will to die. - iggy pop
    that which does not kill me, makes me stronger. - friedrich nietzsche
    1899

    ------------------------------------------------------------------------
    DigitalDave's Profile: http://www.unicyclist.com/profile/8003
    View this thread: http://www.unicyclist.com/thread/38013

  19. I think everyone who's commuted in a city can sympathise with you
    somewhat. Presumably you only ride on the sidewalk in snow right? I ride
    on the road all the time in traffic that's way worse than anything I've
    seen in New York, but we don't get the cold winters here. Normally it's
    way safer to ride on the road than on the pavement as people are much
    less likely to turn left (or right in the US) through you without
    looking.

    If you're a driver and you're careless then you do deserve some kind of
    penalty for it. Careless actions by drivers harm thousands of people
    every day. You're in charge of dangerous machinery, which has a habit of
    killing people, you should be treating it as seriously as if you're
    pointing a loaded gun around.

    Personally, it made me laugh, but I wouldn't do it myself. I'm pretty
    relaxed about the whole traffic thing nowadays and I haven't had a scary
    situation for ages.

    Joe

    --
    joemarshall - dumb blonde
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------
    joemarshall's Profile: http://www.unicyclist.com/profile/1545
    View this thread: http://www.unicyclist.com/thread/38013

  20. having ridden a bike across the country, sometimes through major
    citys(eugene, Buffalo, Cleveland, etc etc) i've been buzzed by so many
    cars that it hardly bothers me anymore. its also made me hyper-aware of
    my surroundings. i never assume anything, i triple check where things
    are. Had this been me and a car honestly came out of nowhere, i would
    been [censored] but probably just hopped/dismounted and cursed a fwe times
    then gone on my merry way. I've wanted to do things like that, but my
    fear of getting beaten to death by drunk rednecks stops me from doing
    more than shouting.

    --
    markf - movie nerd

    stuck in iowa and unemployed.
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------
    markf's Profile: http://www.unicyclist.com/profile/8102
    View this thread: http://www.unicyclist.com/thread/38013

Active in the last 60 minutes

Active in this thread

0 users · 0 guests ·0 bots ·0 total

No signed-in users are active right now.

No known search crawlers active right now.