Unrefrigerated ground beef

Ken said:

I purchased a pack of ground beef at the grocery store,
packed in the standard styrofoam/shrink wrap package.
Circumstances prevented me from getting the beef into my
refrigerator for 12 hours - it spent a fairly cool Seattle
evening in my car last night. This morning, it passed the
smell test. I'd appreciate some opinions on if the meat is
good/bad.

Whatcha do, get drunk and forget about it? (teasing) How
cool an evening? If it passed the smell test it's probably
okay but cook it immediately.

Jill

In article <zwhFc.15353$7t3.2343@attbi_s51>,
[email hidden] says...

Quoted message said:

I purchased a pack of ground beef at the grocery store,
packed in the standard styrofoam/shrink wrap package.
Circumstances prevented me from getting the beef into my
refrigerator for 12 hours - it spent a fairly cool Seattle
evening in my car last night. This morning, it passed the
smell test. I'd appreciate some opinions on if the meat is
good/bad.

The food safety gods say no more than two hours in the
danger zone - between 40 - 120F. I've left cooked meat
out (inadvertently) for that length of time with no
resulting problems, but I'm not sure I'd risk it with raw
pre-ground beef.
--
Donna A pessimist believes all women are bad. An optimist
hopes they are.

On Fri, 02 Jul 2004 18:08:31 GMT, "Ken" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

I purchased a pack of ground beef at the grocery store,
packed in the standard styrofoam/shrink wrap package.
Circumstances prevented me from getting the beef into my
refrigerator for 12 hours - it spent a fairly cool Seattle
evening in my car last night. This morning, it passed the
smell test. I'd appreciate some opinions on if the meat is
good/bad.

I usually salvage everything, but not this.

-sw

"Ken" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:zwhFc.15353$7t3.2343@attbi_s51...

Quoted message said:

I purchased a pack of ground beef at the grocery store,
packed in the standard styrofoam/shrink wrap package.
Circumstances prevented me from getting the beef into my
refrigerator for 12 hours - it spent a fairly

cool

Quoted message said:

Seattle evening in my car last night. This morning, it
passed the smell test. I'd appreciate some opinions on if
the meat is good/bad.

Pitch it. Ground meat is the most likely type of meat to be
contaminated. A week in the hospital hoping for a quick
death is far more costly than a package of ground beef.

One dark day on Usenet said:

I purchased a pack of ground beef at the grocery store,
packed in the standard styrofoam/shrink wrap package.
Circumstances prevented me from getting the beef into my
refrigerator for 12 hours - it spent a fairly cool Seattle
evening in my car last night. This morning, it passed the
smell test. I'd appreciate some opinions on if the meat is
good/bad.

Given that the tempurature was in the mid-50's last night
(I'm not far from Seattle myself), I'd throw it away...

--
J.J. in WA ~ mom, vid gamer, novice cook ~ (COLD to HOT for
e-mail) "Why do my knees feel like the wanna tear up?"
- Carl, ATHF

If it don't stink, eat it.

The smell & wiggle test is fine for me: If it doesn't smell
bad, & I can't see anything wiggling in it without the aide
of my glasses, then it's safe to eat.

I spent a year in Thailand eating food off the street & form
markets that had unrefrigerated beef, chicken & fish. The
food never bothered
me...never had a stomach ache. Of course, I spent a month in
the hospital with hepatitis, but that's another story.

at Fri, 02 Jul 2004 18:08:31 GMT in <zwhFc.15353$7t3.2343@attbi_s51>,
[email hidden] (Ken) wrote :

Quoted message said:

I purchased a pack of ground beef at the grocery store,
packed in the standard styrofoam/shrink wrap package.
Circumstances prevented me from getting the beef into my
refrigerator for 12 hours - it spent a fairly cool Seattle
evening in my car last night. This morning, it passed the
smell test. I'd appreciate some opinions on if the meat is
good/bad.

The Seattle temperature last night wasn't nearly cool enough
IMHO to be safe. I had the windows open at home and it was
comfortable in the house in my shirt sleeves. Not a good
sign. If it had been a big hunk of beef, I might have
considered aggressive trimming and using it. But because it
was ground, I wouldn't risk it. Especially not if it was
ordinary commercial ground beef (as opposed to organic, or
naturally raised, etc.). Such ground beef goes through
conditions that present additional hazards, and I'd have
very deep misgivings about what might have been lurking in
there already that 12 hours at warm temperatures would have
given time to develop. Toss
it.

--
Alex Rast [email hidden] (remove d., .7,
not, and .NOSPAM to reply)

Quoted message said:

"Ken"

I purchased a pack of ground beef at the grocery store,
packed in the standard styrofoam/shrink wrap package.
Circumstances prevented me from getting the beef into my
refrigerator for 12 hours - it spent a fairly cool Seattle
evening in my car last night. This morning, it passed the
smell test. I'd appreciate some opinions on if the meat is
good/bad.

I'd not have bought that fercocktah mystery meat in the
first place... perhaps sitting out fermenting is an
improvement.

---= BOYCOTT FRANCE (belgium) GERMANY--SPAIN =--- ---= Move
UNITED NATIONS To Paris =---
*********
"Life would be devoid of all meaning were it without
tribulation." Sheldon ````````````

I work in a meat department..trust me..throw it away...meat needs to be kept
at a certain temp. if it is outside that temperature for more than 2 hours
it is considered bad.
"Ken" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:zwhFc.15353$7t3.2343@attbi_s51...

Quoted message said:

I purchased a pack of ground beef at the grocery store,
packed in the standard styrofoam/shrink wrap package.
Circumstances prevented me from getting the beef into my
refrigerator for 12 hours - it spent a fairly

cool

Quoted message said:

Seattle evening in my car last night. This morning, it
passed the smell test. I'd appreciate some opinions on if
the meat is good/bad.

In article <[email hidden]>,

Vox Humana said:

"Ken" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:zwhFc.15353$7t3.2343@attbi_s51...

Quoted message said:

I purchased a pack of ground beef at the grocery store,
packed in the standard styrofoam/shrink wrap package.
Circumstances prevented me from getting the beef into my
refrigerator for 12 hours - it spent a fairly

cool

Quoted message said:

Seattle evening in my car last night. This morning, it
passed the smell test. I'd appreciate some opinions on
if the meat is good/bad.

Pitch it. Ground meat is the most likely type of meat to
be contaminated. A week in the hospital hoping for a quick
death is far more costly than a package of ground beef.

Excellent point. ;-) It's a point I keep having to tell my
dad when I want to pitch old food to the chickens...

I've finally convinced him that it's cheaper to replace the
food than deal with the hospital bill!

My chickens love raw ground beef. I've given them stuff out
of the freezer that was freezer burned. :-)

K.

--
Sprout the Mung Bean to reply...

Quoted message said:

,,<Cat's Haven Hobby Farm>,,<Katraatcenturyteldotnet>,,<

cgi6.ebay.comeBayISAPI.dllOpen ↗
&include=0&userid=katra

Quoted message said:

Whatcha do, get drunk and forget about it?

:: Nodding sheepishly ::

Thanks all for your opinions. Chucking it.

"jmcquown" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Ken said:

I purchased a pack of ground beef at the grocery store,
packed in the standard styrofoam/shrink wrap package.
Circumstances prevented me from getting the beef into my
refrigerator for 12 hours - it spent a fairly cool
Seattle evening in my car last night. This morning, it
passed the smell test. I'd appreciate some opinions on
if the meat is good/bad.

Whatcha do, get drunk and forget about it? (teasing) How
cool an evening? If it passed the smell test it's probably
okay but cook it immediately.

Jill

In article <GSmFc.7884$151.2064@fed1read02>,

Jimmy G said:

If it don't stink, eat it.

The smell & wiggle test is fine for me: If it doesn't
smell bad, & I can't see anything wiggling in it without
the aide of my glasses, then it's safe to eat.

Bad advice. Massive E. coli contamination doesn't make meat
smell bad.

--
to respond, change "spamless.invalid" with "optonline.net"
please mail OT responses only

Katra said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

Vox Humana said:

"Ken" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:zwhFc.15353$7t3.2343@attbi_s51...

Quoted message said:

I purchased a pack of ground beef at the grocery
store, packed in the standard styrofoam/shrink wrap
package. Circumstances prevented me from getting the
beef into my refrigerator for 12 hours - it spent a
fairly

cool

Quoted message said:

Seattle evening in my car last night. This morning,
it passed the smell test. I'd appreciate some
opinions on if the meat is good/bad.

Pitch it. Ground meat is the most likely type of meat
to be contaminated. A week in the hospital hoping for a
quick death is far more costly than a package of ground
beef.

Excellent point. ;-) It's a point I keep having to tell
my dad when I want to pitch old food to the chickens...

IMO: if you didn't eat it by this time, toss it - but a
truly cool Seattle night would be cool enough for
meat... Worst case scenerio - it'll clean out your
system, but won't kill you (if you're healthy to
begin with).

Practice safe eating - always use condiments

"jmcquown" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Ken said:

I purchased a pack of ground beef at the grocery store,
packed in the standard styrofoam/shrink wrap package.
Circumstances prevented me from getting the beef into my
refrigerator for 12 hours - it spent a fairly cool
Seattle evening in my car last night. This morning, it
passed the smell test. I'd appreciate some opinions on
if the meat is good/bad.

Whatcha do, get drunk and forget about it? (teasing) How
cool an evening? If it passed the smell test it's probably
okay but cook it immediately.

Another pin-headed post from Jill! This one takes the
cake though.

Carmen Dioxide said:

"jmcquown" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Ken said:

I purchased a pack of ground beef at the grocery store,
packed in the standard styrofoam/shrink wrap package.
Circumstances prevented me from getting the beef into my
refrigerator for 12 hours - it spent a fairly cool
Seattle evening in my car last night. This morning, it
passed the smell test. I'd appreciate some opinions on if
the meat is good/bad.

Whatcha do, get drunk and forget about it? (teasing) How
cool an evening? If it passed the smell test it's probably
okay but cook it immediately.

Another pin-headed post from Jill! This one takes the
cake though.

Actually, it's what I would have posted because it's
absolutely on the mark. Looks like it was more important to
sling some [censored] than to actually consider the reality of
the setting.

All this ignorant terror over bacteria that are going to
die when cooked is a bit precious and effete. I read a lot
of scary posts with nary a smidge of science to them. Cook
the meat and virtually everything dies. Put a bit of tomato
sauce on it to lower the pH and virtually everything dies
all over again. Chill it and anything still alive (probably
log 6 or 8 kill - 1/100,000 to 1/10,000,000) will stop
doing anything.

Obviously all the panicky posters don't live anywhere except
in modern formica cities. The rest of the world is a very
different place.

More and more first-world people get sick from bacteria
every day, not because they're any more virulent, but
because we seem to be in a panic about germs and strive to
get a germ-free environment. It's stupid. The reason people
are getting sick isn't because there are germs around.
They've always been there. It's because we're not being
exposed to them and our immune systems aren't developing
antibodies. A bad idea to wash kids' hands with
antibacterial soaps.

Pastorio

"sf" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Katra said:

In article
<[email hidden]>, "Vox

Humana said:

"Ken" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:zwhFc.15353$7t3.2343@attbi_s51...
> I purchased a pack of ground beef at the grocery
> store, packed in

the

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> standard styrofoam/shrink wrap package.
> Circumstances prevented me

from

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> getting the beef into my refrigerator for 12 hours
> - it spent a

fairly

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

cool
> Seattle evening in my car last night. This morning,
> it passed the

smell

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> test. I'd appreciate some opinions on if the meat
> is good/bad.

Pitch it. Ground meat is the most likely type of meat
to be

contaminated.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

A week in the hospital hoping for a quick death is
far more costly

than a

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

package of ground beef.

Excellent point. ;-) It's a point I keep having to tell
my dad when I want to pitch old food to the chickens...

IMO: if you didn't eat it by this time, toss it - but a
truly cool Seattle night would be cool enough for
meat... Worst case scenerio - it'll clean out your
system, but won't kill you (if you're healthy to
begin with).

Who wants to be sick for several days over $2 worth of meat?

Bob (this one) wrote:

Cook the meat and virtually everything dies.

Quoted message said:

Put a bit of tomato sauce on it to lower the pH and
virtually everything dies all over again. Chill it and
anything still alive (probably log 6 or 8 kill - 1/100,000
to 1/10,000,000) will stop doing anything.

Here's what I remember from Culinary school 20 years ago.
The reason for throwing away meats that have been in the
danger zone (40 degrees- 120 degrees F) rather than cooking
them is that the growing bacteria produce toxins that can
make a person sick. Heating kills the bacteria but does
nothing to the toxins that are then present in the meat.

Quoted message said:

More and more first-world people get sick from bacteria
every day, not because they're any more virulent, but
because we seem to be in a panic about germs and strive to
get a germ-free environment. It's stupid. The reason
people are getting sick isn't because there are germs
around. They've always been there. It's because we're not
being exposed to them and our immune systems aren't
developing antibodies. A bad idea to wash kids' hands with
antibacterial soaps.

This is bringing more subjects into the mix. They're
related but not exactly the same. Let me see if I can
separate them out.

There are studies showing that children brought up in more
antiseptic environments have higher incidents of asthma and
allergies than those who don't. One theory suggests that
perhaps those children's immune systems don't develop
because they're not exposed to bacteria as they might have
been in the past.

Not all bacteria are bad, but anti-bacterial soaps don't
discriminate between the good guys and the bad.
Antibacterial soaps dry the skin, possibly create an
environment for bacteria to evolve that aren't killed by the
soaps, and probably don't do that much good anyway since the
bacteria they kill weren't going to do any harm.

These decisions are a matter of weighing benefits and risks.
There's little benefit for a healthy person to wash hands
with anti-bacterial soap before cooking in a restaurant
because there isn't much risk of anyone getting sick in the
first place. It does make sense to use the anti-bacterial
soaps in many hospital situations. There's enormous benefit
in washing hands carefully with ordinary soap after using
the bathroom.

The same decision making process can be applied to throwing
out the ground beef. There's some risk of illness from
bacteria. There's not a huge benefit in cooking and eating
the burger. You save a little money but not much. That's why
I'd say to throw it away.

--Lia

Vox Humana said:

Who wants to be sick for several days over $2 worth
of meat?

So, why the OP if it's such a no brainer?

Practice safe eating - always use condiments

Julia Altshuler said:

Bob (this one) said:

Cook the meat and virtually everything dies. Put a bit of
tomato sauce on it to lower the pH and virtually
everything dies all over again. Chill it and anything
still alive (probably log 6 or 8 kill - 1/100,000 to
1/10,000,000) will stop doing anything.

Here's what I remember from Culinary school 20 years ago.
The reason for throwing away meats that have been in the
danger zone (40 degrees- 120 degrees F) rather than
cooking them is that the growing bacteria produce toxins
that can make a person sick. Heating kills the bacteria
but does nothing to the toxins that are then present in
the meat.

Yeah. That's what I was told, too. Some anaerobes produce
toxins (that's why we're supposed to boil home-canned foods
for 20 minutes after opening the jar) but their toxins can
be eliminated by cooking. Others produce toxins that are
relatively heat stable, but their incidence is very low.

Here's a paper that talks about pathogenic bacterial growth
rates at various temperatures. <hi-tm.comtime tempOpen ↗
calculations.html>

From a wonderful web site with lots of good science. <hi-hi-Open ↗
tm.com/html/pubs_reports.html>

Here. A government site that guarantees you'll never eat
again. <http://www.cfsan.fda.gov/~mow/intro.html>

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

More and more first-world people get sick from bacteria
every day, not because they're any more virulent, but
because we seem to be in a panic about germs and strive
to get a germ-free environment. It's stupid. The reason
people are getting sick isn't because there are germs
around. They've always been there. It's because we're not
being exposed to them and our immune systems aren't
developing antibodies. A bad idea to wash kids' hands
with antibacterial soaps.

This is bringing more subjects into the mix. They're
related but not exactly the same. Let me see if I can
separate them out.

There are studies showing that children brought up in more
antiseptic environments have higher incidents of asthma
and allergies than those who don't. One theory suggests
that perhaps those children's immune systems don't develop
because they're not exposed to bacteria as they might have
been in the past.

They've been carried further than that. Correlations with
common childhood diseases are greater in those children, as
well. Some of the data points to more severe infection in
the cases of those diseases, but the data is still sketchy.

Quoted message said:

Not all bacteria are bad, but anti-bacterial soaps don't
discriminate between the good guys and the bad.
Antibacterial soaps dry the skin, possibly create an
environment for bacteria to evolve that aren't killed by
the soaps, and probably don't do that much good anyway
since the bacteria they kill weren't going to do any harm.

These decisions are a matter of weighing benefits and
risks. There's little benefit for a healthy person to wash
hands with anti-bacterial soap before cooking in a
restaurant because there isn't much risk of anyone getting
sick in the first place.

I'm not so sure I agree. Badly handled foods in restaurants
are one - not the biggest, by any means - of the reasons
people get sick from foods. Hand washing (and keeping
everything else mirror-clean) was a big priority in my
operations.

Health departments all over the country are pressing hard
for gloves, missing the point entirely. Gloves pick up the
same dirt and critters as fingers unless used with very
stringent care.

Quoted message said:

It does make sense to use the anti-bacterial soaps in many
hospital situations.

To be sure, but that's not the sort of situation I was
talking about.

Quoted message said:

There's enormous benefit in washing hands carefully with
ordinary soap after using the bathroom.

Of course. We all carry E.coli and that's not a good
condiment in our dinners. The problem happens when we go to
leave the bathroom and use the same door handle as lots of
people who didn't use the soap.

Quoted message said:

The same decision making process can be applied to
throwing out the ground beef. There's some risk of illness
from bacteria. There's not a huge benefit in cooking and
eating the burger. You save a little money but not much.
That's why I'd say to throw it away.

Except the risk, after cooking, is trivial. You save a
little money, a little time. A little irritation.

"Some" risk, quantified, becomes close to engineer's zero.

What time will you be here for dinner...? <G>

Pastorio