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Update to Dave's Story

Started by Dave Wickware · · Last activity · 17 posts · 684 views

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General fitness, health and nutrition
Published
15 May 2004
Last activity
16 May 2004
Original author
Dave Wickware
Posts
17
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  1. In the past year I have cured my severe asthma, emphysema and congestive
    heart failure. In
    that time I have been aided by some prescription medications, the help of
    two medical specialists, a holistic physician, Buteko Breathing Therapy,
    pure Korean INSAM and regular energy healing sessions from an intuitive
    healer. My lungs are 100% clear, my EKG shows no abnormalities, my blood
    pressure and my blood sugar are both normal.

    Despite this I have been dogged by recurring infections. I have been treated
    with the most powerful antibiotics available. The infection would tend to
    subside for about a week or two and then return.
    Finally, my intuitive doctor determined that these infections were
    originating in my jaw, manifesting in my sinuses and then draining into my
    lungs. A google search for "jawbone infection" yielded a bunch of info such
    as...
    http://www.findarticles.com/cf_dls/m0ISW/2002_April/84211160/p1/article.jhtml

    So, with some bit of new understanding I went to my holistic physician, who
    knew about cavitations. He sent me to an MRI for a jawbone scan. As it turns
    out the bone scan can detect the presence of cavitations but can't show
    them. There is a
    3d imaging software product called Cavitat that uses a ultrasonic sound
    transducer and detects and maps out anomalies in a
    easy to see format. Here is a scan
    http://www.altcorp.com/AffinityLaboratory/cavitatupdate.htm

    As it turns out I have a bone infection in the wisdom tooth sockets on both
    left and right lower. I will begin treatment for
    both of these in two weeks time. I will receive three weekly sessions of
    intravenous vitamin C, followed by the scraping
    of the bone to completely remove the infected area. This is followed by
    three more weekly sessions of intravenous vitamin C
    injections. The process will then be repeated for the other side.

    Bone marrow infections can not be touched by antibiotics because the bone is
    dead and no longer has any blood flow in it. These infections cause a
    multitude of systemic problems such as heart problems, lung problems,
    arthritic problems, etc.

  2. Quoted message said:

    Subject: Update to Dave's Story
    From: "Dave Wickware" [email hidden]
    Date: 5/14/04 8:52 PM Eastern Daylight Time
    Message-id: <[email hidden]>

    Quoted message said:

    Finally, my intuitive doctor determined that these infections were
    originating in my jaw, manifesting in my sinuses and then draining into my
    lungs. A google search for "jawbone infection" yielded a bunch of info such
    as...
    http://www.findarticles.com/cf_dls

    Does this relate at all to Dr. Rosenow's nobel prize work on the "focii of
    disease"?, published circa 1914?

    DrC PhD

  3. "DRCEEPHD" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Subject: Update to Dave's Story
    From: "Dave Wickware" [email hidden]
    Date: 5/14/04 8:52 PM Eastern Daylight Time
    Message-id: <[email hidden]>

    Quoted message said:

    Finally, my intuitive doctor determined that these infections were
    originating in my jaw, manifesting in my sinuses and then draining into


    my

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    lungs. A google search for "jawbone infection" yielded a bunch of info


    such

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    as...
    http://www.findarticles.com/cf_dls

    Does this relate at all to Dr. Rosenow's nobel prize work on the "focii of
    disease"?, published circa 1914?

    DrC PhD

    I have no idea.

  4. In article <[email hidden]>,

    Dave Wickware said:

    As it turns out I have a bone infection in the wisdom tooth sockets on both
    left and right lower. I will begin treatment for
    both of these in two weeks time. I will receive three weekly sessions of
    intravenous vitamin C, followed by the scraping
    of the bone to completely remove the infected area.

    LOL! If the sockets are truly infected (which would be osteomyelitis, an
    infection of the bone), then debridment (scraping) will do far more to
    cure the problem than vitamin C, which won't do anything. In this case,
    if you truly have such an infection, it is the old fashioned
    conventional surgical treatment that will take care of it.

    BTW, "cavitation" is a bit of a questionable catch-all concept for
    problems causing neuralgia, but for the moment I'll operate under the
    assumption that you might actually have osteomyelitis of the jaw.

    Quoted message said:

    This is followed by
    three more weekly sessions of intravenous vitamin C
    injections. The process will then be repeated for the other side.

    Why only one side at a time? Why debride just one site of infection and
    leave another accessible site untouched? It makes no sense.

    Quoted message said:

    Bone marrow infections can not be touched by antibiotics because the bone is
    dead and no longer has any blood flow in it.

    [censored]. Osteomyelitis is cured with antibiotics all the time by
    orthopedic surgeons. However, you are correct that once the infection
    has progressed to the point that the bone has died (or if the infection
    is due to trauma that has caused part of the bone to die), antibiotics
    won't penetrate the area. Of course, in that case I feel obligated to
    point out to you that if the bone has died in that part of your jaw,
    then your precious intravenous vitamin C won't get to the site of
    infection either! It would then be the surgical debridement to remove
    the dead tissue that would be required.

    Maybe there's hope for you yet. Give up the vitamin C part of your
    treatment, and it sounds all very conventional.

    --
    Orac |"A statement of fact cannot be insolent."
    |
    |"If you cannot listen to the answers, why do you
    | inconvenience me with questions?"

  5. I have been giving you more credit than you deserve. My condition which I
    gave you a link to
    so you wouldn't have to guess, is for NICO Neuralgia Inducing Cavitational
    Osteonecrosis. It appears
    you missed it. The treatment is in fact a conventional scraping of the one
    to remove the infection. The
    vitamin C treatment is an important part of the treatment for assisting with
    healing, cleaning up toxic materials and bacteria released into the
    bloodstream and detoxifying local anesthetics and IV medications.

    Doing one side at a time is like doing cataract surgery on one eye at a
    time, it is considered responsible medical procedure.

    Unfortunately you don't appear to understand that antibiotics get
    distributed to areas of our body via the blood stream. A bone marrow
    infection is by definition an area of dead material. It has no blood flow.
    You are quite correct when you say physicians treat infections wth
    antibiotics, unfortunately they continue to prescribe antibiotics whether
    they have any effect on the patients overall condition, or not. That is what
    had been happening to me. No medical practitioner had any clue that I had a
    jawbone infection. In fact its not accepted as something that exists by the
    medical profession. My pictures of one are considered to not exist, I guess.

    "Orac" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    In article <[email hidden]>,

    Dave Wickware said:

    As it turns out I have a bone infection in the wisdom tooth sockets on


    both

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    left and right lower. I will begin treatment for
    both of these in two weeks time. I will receive three weekly sessions of
    intravenous vitamin C, followed by the scraping
    of the bone to completely remove the infected area.

    LOL! If the sockets are truly infected (which would be osteomyelitis, an
    infection of the bone), then debridment (scraping) will do far more to
    cure the problem than vitamin C, which won't do anything. In this case,
    if you truly have such an infection, it is the old fashioned
    conventional surgical treatment that will take care of it.

    BTW, "cavitation" is a bit of a questionable catch-all concept for
    problems causing neuralgia, but for the moment I'll operate under the
    assumption that you might actually have osteomyelitis of the jaw.

    Quoted message said:

    This is followed by
    three more weekly sessions of intravenous vitamin C
    injections. The process will then be repeated for the other side.

    Why only one side at a time? Why debride just one site of infection and
    leave another accessible site untouched? It makes no sense.

    Quoted message said:

    Bone marrow infections can not be touched by antibiotics because the


    bone is

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    dead and no longer has any blood flow in it.

    [censored]. Osteomyelitis is cured with antibiotics all the time by
    orthopedic surgeons. However, you are correct that once the infection
    has progressed to the point that the bone has died (or if the infection
    is due to trauma that has caused part of the bone to die), antibiotics
    won't penetrate the area. Of course, in that case I feel obligated to
    point out to you that if the bone has died in that part of your jaw,
    then your precious intravenous vitamin C won't get to the site of
    infection either! It would then be the surgical debridement to remove
    the dead tissue that would be required.

    Maybe there's hope for you yet. Give up the vitamin C part of your
    treatment, and it sounds all very conventional.

    --
    Orac |"A statement of fact cannot be insolent."
    |
    |"If you cannot listen to the answers, why do you
    | inconvenience me with questions?"

  6. Quoted message said:


    "DRCEEPHD" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Subject: Update to Dave's Story
    From: "Dave Wickware" [email hidden]
    Date: 5/14/04 8:52 PM Eastern Daylight Time
    Message-id: <[email hidden]>

    Quoted message said:

    Finally, my intuitive doctor determined that these infections were
    originating in my jaw, manifesting in my sinuses and then draining into


    my

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    lungs. A google search for "jawbone infection" yielded a bunch of info


    such

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    as...
    http://www.findarticles.com/cf_dls

    Does this relate at all to Dr. Rosenow's nobel prize work on the "focii of
    disease"?, published circa 1914?

    DrC PhD

    I have no idea.

    Considering that Dr Rosenow never won a Nobel prize, the answer is obviously
    "No". This fact has been pointed out to Charles numerous times and yet he
    persists in lying about it. He also lies about Pasteur's so-called death-bed
    confession and the lifespan of Mr Walker, the juicer maker. That speaks
    volumes about his beliefs, methods, dogma, and credibility.

    Sad, that.

  7. And let's not forget "Dr. Chuckles" asserting that Denmark was the only
    country completely untouched by the worldwide 1918 Influenza Epidemic
    because a medical doctor "in charge" ordered all the animals killed...so
    presumably every Danish citizen became a vegetarian & lived. That was a
    Whopper!!

  8. In article <[email hidden]>,

    Dave Wickware said:

    I have been giving you more credit than you deserve. My condition which I
    gave you a link to
    so you wouldn't have to guess, is for NICO Neuralgia Inducing Cavitational
    Osteonecrosis. It appears
    you missed it.

    I didn't. NICO is a fad diagnosis of questionable validity.

    Try this URL:

    http://www.quackwatch.org/01QuackeryRelatedTopics/cavitation.html
    http://www.aetna.com/cpb/data/CPBA0642.html

    Quoted message said:

    The treatment is in fact a conventional scraping of the one
    to remove the infection. The
    vitamin C treatment is an important part of the treatment for assisting with
    healing, cleaning up toxic materials and bacteria released into the
    bloodstream and detoxifying local anesthetics and IV medications.

    LOL! Vitamin C, for all its other benefits, will do nothing of the sort.
    It does not "clean up toxic materials" or bacteria, and local
    anesthetics don't need detoxification, as they will be metabolized
    within a few hours at most.

    Quoted message said:

    Doing one side at a time is like doing cataract surgery on one eye at a
    time, it is considered responsible medical procedure.

    Why would that be? I'm betting it's so your practitioner can bill you
    for two procedures instead of one, as there is no convincing reason I
    can think of that both couldn't be done at one time.

    Quoted message said:

    Unfortunately you don't appear to understand that antibiotics get
    distributed to areas of our body via the blood stream.

    Give me a break What exactly did I just say? I said that antibiotics
    can't reach an area that has died, did I not? And why is that? Because
    dead tissue has no blood flow! That's why dead tissue needs to be
    debrided. Antibiotics can then get in to clean up the rest. However,
    debridement is the most important, more important than the antibiotics,
    when necrotic material is around.

    Quoted message said:

    A bone marrow
    infection is by definition an area of dead material. It has no blood flow.

    No it isn't. A bone marrow infection is an infection. The tissue there
    may or may not be dead yet.

    Quoted message said:

    You are quite correct when you say physicians treat infections wth
    antibiotics, unfortunately they continue to prescribe antibiotics whether
    they have any effect on the patients overall condition, or not.

    Of course, in that case one must look for the reason they are not
    working. Reasons could include (1) bacterial resistance; (2) necrotic
    tissue that needs to be debrided; or (3) the cause of your problems was
    not an infection. Given your kookiness, I'm beginning to suspect #3.

    Quoted message said:

    That is what
    had been happening to me. No medical practitioner had any clue that I had a
    jawbone infection. In fact its not accepted as something that exists by the
    medical profession. My pictures of one are considered to not exist, I guess.

    Oh, please, don't be a putz. Infections of the mandible (jawbone) are
    certainly recognized by the medical profession. They usually result from
    untreated dental caries that lead to abscess formation and, if really
    neglected, osteomyelitis.

    [Snip]

    --
    Orac |"A statement of fact cannot be insolent."
    |
    |"If you cannot listen to the answers, why do you
    | inconvenience me with questions?"

  9. In article <[email hidden]>,

    Vitamins are Chemicals said:
    Quoted message said:


    "DRCEEPHD" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    >Subject: Update to Dave's Story
    >From: "Dave Wickware" [email hidden]
    >Date: 5/14/04 8:52 PM Eastern Daylight Time
    >Message-id: <[email hidden]>

    >Finally, my intuitive doctor determined that these infections were
    >originating in my jaw, manifesting in my sinuses and then draining into


    my

    Quoted message said:

    >lungs. A google search for "jawbone infection" yielded a bunch of info


    such

    Quoted message said:

    >as...
    >http://www.findarticles.com/cf_dls

    Does this relate at all to Dr. Rosenow's nobel prize work on the "focii of
    disease"?, published circa 1914?

    DrC PhD

    I have no idea.

    Considering that Dr Rosenow never won a Nobel prize, the answer is obviously
    "No". This fact has been pointed out to Charles numerous times and yet he
    persists in lying about it. He also lies about Pasteur's so-called death-bed
    confession and the lifespan of Mr Walker, the juicer maker. That speaks
    volumes about his beliefs, methods, dogma, and credibility.

    Based on a couple of comments Chuck has dropped in the past, I suspect
    his basic problem is religious mania. This both in terms of some sort
    of biblical fundamentalism, and in the quasi-religious fervor with
    which he clings to his "sacred texts," e.g. the writings of Bechamp.

    -- David Wright :: alphabeta at prodigy.net
    These are my opinions only, but they're almost always correct.
    "If I have not seen as far as others, it is because giants
    were standing on my shoulders." (Hal Abelson, MIT)

  10. "Dave Wickware" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    I have been giving you more credit than you deserve. My condition which I
    gave you a link to
    so you wouldn't have to guess, is for NICO Neuralgia Inducing Cavitational
    Osteonecrosis. It appears
    you missed it. The treatment is in fact a conventional scraping of the one
    to remove the infection. The
    vitamin C treatment is an important part of the treatment for assisting


    with

    Quoted message said:

    healing, cleaning up toxic materials and bacteria released into the
    bloodstream and detoxifying local anesthetics and IV medications.

    I will go further than Orac and suggest that you are having unnecessary
    treatment by a definite quack for an extremely dubious diagnosis and that
    it will not help your recurrent infections (I am assuming recurrent
    bronchitis) at all. Keep us posted.

    Orac can address all the nonsense in this reply if he feels so inclined.

    Peter Moran

  11. "Peter Moran" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:


    "Dave Wickware" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    I have been giving you more credit than you deserve. My condition which


    I

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    gave you a link to
    so you wouldn't have to guess, is for NICO Neuralgia Inducing


    Cavitational

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Osteonecrosis. It appears
    you missed it. The treatment is in fact a conventional scraping of the


    one

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    to remove the infection. The
    vitamin C treatment is an important part of the treatment for assisting


    with

    Quoted message said:

    healing, cleaning up toxic materials and bacteria released into the
    bloodstream and detoxifying local anesthetics and IV medications.

    I will go further than Orac and suggest that you are having unnecessary
    treatment by a definite quack for an extremely dubious diagnosis and that
    it will not help your recurrent infections (I am assuming recurrent
    bronchitis) at all. Keep us posted.

    Orac can address all the nonsense in this reply if he feels so inclined.

    While I DO understand where you are coming from, I know that neither you nor
    Orac have any
    knowledge or understanding in this area. In fact, the Cavitat Scan is more
    technologically advanced
    than any type of imaging equipment, and, like all 3d imaging equipment shows
    clear pictures of this
    condition. So while I am sure your motivation is well intentioned please
    keep it to those things you
    know about.

    Since you mention Orac, do you believe that doing cataract on both eyes at
    the same
    time is acceptable procedure?

    I will be completing two very simple dental procedures that is done by a
    holoistic dental surgeon and that
    will permit the final scientific documentation of my complete cure of
    emphsema and congestive heart failure.

  12. Quoted message said:

    Subject: Re: Update to Dave's Story
    From: [email hidden] (David Wright)
    Date: 5/15/2004 10:58 AM Pacific Standard Time
    Message-id: <[email hidden]>

    In article <[email hidden]>,

    Vitamins are Chemicals said:
    Quoted message said:


    "DRCEEPHD" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...
    > >Subject: Update to Dave's Story
    > >From: "Dave Wickware" [email hidden]
    > >Date: 5/14/04 8:52 PM Eastern Daylight Time
    > >Message-id: <[email hidden]>
    >
    > >Finally, my intuitive doctor determined that these infections were
    > >originating in my jaw, manifesting in my sinuses and then draining into
    my
    > >lungs. A google search for "jawbone infection" yielded a bunch of info
    such
    > >as...
    > >http://www.findarticles.com/cf_dls
    >
    > Does this relate at all to Dr. Rosenow's nobel prize work on the "focii


    of

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    > disease"?, published circa 1914?
    >
    > DrC PhD

    I have no idea.

    Considering that Dr Rosenow never won a Nobel prize, the answer is obviously
    "No". This fact has been pointed out to Charles numerous times and yet he
    persists in lying about it. He also lies about Pasteur's so-called


    death-bed

    Quoted message said:

    confession and the lifespan of Mr Walker, the juicer maker. That speaks
    volumes about his beliefs, methods, dogma, and credibility.



    Andrew Kingoff speaking of persisting in lying, and credibility.

    Of course, David lets that slide.

    When it has been proven Andrew is a total liar and has no credibility.

    TYpical behavior of the *gang*.

    You can't believe a word from any of them, They are here to belittle any and
    all who they disagree with.

    Jan

  13. Quoted message said:

    Subject: Re: Update to Dave's Story
    From: "Dave Wickware" [email hidden]
    Date: 5/15/2004 5:14 AM Pacific Standard Time
    Message-id: <[email hidden]>

    I have been giving you more credit than you deserve. My condition which I
    gave you a link to
    so you wouldn't have to guess, is for NICO Neuralgia Inducing Cavitational
    Osteonecrosis. It appears
    you missed it. The treatment is in fact a conventional scraping of the one
    to remove the infection. The
    vitamin C treatment is an important part of the treatment for assisting with
    healing, cleaning up toxic materials and bacteria released into the
    bloodstream and detoxifying local anesthetics and IV medications.

    Doing one side at a time is like doing cataract surgery on one eye at a
    time, it is considered responsible medical procedure.

    Unfortunately you don't appear to understand that antibiotics get
    distributed to areas of our body via the blood stream. A bone marrow
    infection is by definition an area of dead material. It has no blood flow.
    You are quite correct when you say physicians treat infections wth
    antibiotics, unfortunately they continue to prescribe antibiotics whether
    they have any effect on the patients overall condition, or not. That is what
    had been happening to me. No medical practitioner had any clue that I had a
    jawbone infection. In fact its not accepted as something that exists by the
    medical profession. My pictures of one are considered to not exist, I guess.

    "Orac" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    In article <[email hidden]>,

    Dave Wickware said:

    As it turns out I have a bone infection in the wisdom tooth sockets on


    both

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    left and right lower. I will begin treatment for
    both of these in two weeks time. I will receive three weekly sessions of
    intravenous vitamin C, followed by the scraping
    of the bone to completely remove the infected area.

    LOL!

    Nuff said from Orac, nice for a doctor to think someone's pain is funny.

    Jan

  14. Quoted message said:

    Subject: Re: Update to Dave's Story
    From: "Peter Moran" [email hidden]
    Date: 5/15/2004 1:25 PM Pacific Standard Time
    Message-id:
    <[email hidden]>

    "Dave Wickware" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    I have been giving you more credit than you deserve. My condition which I
    gave you a link to
    so you wouldn't have to guess, is for NICO Neuralgia Inducing Cavitational
    Osteonecrosis. It appears
    you missed it. The treatment is in fact a conventional scraping of the one
    to remove the infection. The
    vitamin C treatment is an important part of the treatment for assisting


    with

    Quoted message said:

    healing, cleaning up toxic materials and bacteria released into the
    bloodstream and detoxifying local anesthetics and IV medications.

    I will go further than Orac and suggest that you are having unnecessary
    treatment by a definite quack for an extremely dubious diagnosis and that
    it will not help your recurrent infections (I am assuming recurrent
    bronchitis) at all. Keep us posted.

    Orac can address all the nonsense in this reply if he feels so inclined.

    Peter Moran

    There you have it a denial of REAL diseases and further trashing of anyone who
    uses alternative. Calling it nonsense, just one more reason people are turning
    to alternative medicine. The doctors HERE are total LIARS.

    The truth is:

    http://www.drshankland.com/nico.html

    http://www.curezone.com/dental/dental_neuralgia.asp

    http://www.altcorp.com/AffinityLaboratory/cavitation.htm

    http://www.altcorp.com/AffinityLaboratory/cavtreat.htm

    http://www.dairylanedental.com/cavitations.htm

    http://www.mizar5.com/lauraleeshow2.htm

    http://www.holisticmed.com/dental/root.html#cavitation

    http://www.holisticmed.com/dental/cavitation1.html
    (from Journal in advancement in medicine)

    http://www.whale.to/d/cavitations.html

    http://www.nihadc.com/bio_cavitations.htm

    Many more websites about cavitations, if one wants to do their own research.

    Jan

  15. In article <[email hidden]>,

    (Jan) said:
    Quoted message said:

    Subject: Re: Update to Dave's Story
    From: [email hidden] (David Wright)
    Date: 5/15/2004 10:58 AM Pacific Standard Time
    Message-id: <[email hidden]>

    In article <[email hidden]>,

    Vitamins are Chemicals said:

    >
    >"DRCEEPHD" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    >news:[email hidden]...
    >> >Subject: Update to Dave's Story
    >> >From: "Dave Wickware" [email hidden]
    >> >Date: 5/14/04 8:52 PM Eastern Daylight Time
    >> >Message-id: <[email hidden]>
    >>
    >> >Finally, my intuitive doctor determined that these infections were
    >> >originating in my jaw, manifesting in my sinuses and then draining into
    >my
    >> >lungs. A google search for "jawbone infection" yielded a bunch of info
    >such
    >> >as...
    >> >http://www.findarticles.com/cf_dls
    >>
    >> Does this relate at all to Dr. Rosenow's nobel prize work on the "focii


    of

    Quoted message said:

    >> disease"?, published circa 1914?
    >>
    >> DrC PhD
    >
    >I have no idea.

    Considering that Dr Rosenow never won a Nobel prize, the answer is obviously
    "No". This fact has been pointed out to Charles numerous times and yet he
    persists in lying about it. He also lies about Pasteur's so-called


    death-bed

    Quoted message said:

    confession and the lifespan of Mr Walker, the juicer maker. That speaks
    volumes about his beliefs, methods, dogma, and credibility.



    Andrew Kingoff speaking of persisting in lying, and credibility.

    Of course, David lets that slide.

    When it has been proven Andrew is a total liar and has no credibility.

    Really? Which of the above statements was a lie?

    --
    Orac |"A statement of fact cannot be insolent."
    |
    |"If you cannot listen to the answers, why do you
    | inconvenience me with questions?"

  16. In article <[email hidden]>,

    (Jan) said:

    Nuff said from Orac, nice for a doctor to think someone's pain is funny.

    Nope. I think GlowLife Dave's claim that vitamin C will take care of his
    "infection" is laughable.

    --
    Orac |"A statement of fact cannot be insolent."
    |
    |"If you cannot listen to the answers, why do you
    | inconvenience me with questions?"

  17. Jan the Accuser said:

    The doctors HERE are total LIARS.

    Prove it. You accuse people all the time of lying
    just because they disagree with you, but you NEVER
    back up your accusations with proof.

    Do you need help seeing what PROOF looks like, Jan?

    Here is an example:

    To see Jan's ORIGINAL POSTING, go here:
    http://www.google.com/groups?selm=20040310000815.25804.00001173%40mb-m01.aol.com

    Jan said:
    Quoted message said:

    From: Mark Thorson [email hidden]

    Instead of responding to what you say, Jan is trying to discredit
    you by making insinuations about who you are or what your
    motives may be.

    Soon, she may accuse you of being on the payroll of the
    pharmaceutical companies, etc. That's the way Jan works.

    That would be ANOTHER LIE from Mark Thorson. I have NEVER accused


    anyone of

    Quoted message said:

    any such thing.

    So do prove your claim Mark!!!!!

    You can't YOU JUST LIED AGAIN!!!!!!!

    ----- example quotes of Jan accusing people of being paid shills -----

    Quoting from this ORIGINAL posting from Jan Drew:
    http://www.google.com/groups?selm=20030415173745.18794.00000646%40mb-fn.aol.com

    Any time alt. health is mentioned the personal trashing starts. Mostly
    comes from paid shill Mark Probert.

    Quoting from this ORIGINAL posting from Jan Drew:
    http://www.google.com/groups?selm=20030412210802.08778.00000680%40mb-fw.aol.com

    Internet bully Mark Probert who is a paid shill and lives off his wife.

    Quoting from this ORIGINAL posting from Jan Drew:
    http://www.google.com/groups?selm=20030410170838.14245.00000347%40mb-ct.aol.com

    As for Mark, he is a paid shill and lives off his wife.

    Quoting from this ORIGINAL posting from Jan Drew:
    http://www.google.com/groups?selm=20030325123827.25124.00000246%40mb-mn.aol.com

    As long as Mark is here, the paid shill will call names when in fact
    he is the one who is a bigot. Speaking of his own people.

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