"Urban Bike"????

Dan Connelly said:

What's up with those wheels? Maybe the roads in Portland are
extremely well maintained 🙂.
http://www.cyclingnews.com/tech.php?id=photos/2005/tech/features/trek_urban/trek_portland1

Dan

That's because the "upgrade" to those wheels is a pair of 36h wheels...
It's obvious that the intent here with those bikes is fashion.

--
Phil, Squid-in-Training

Squid-in-Training said:

Dan Connelly said:

What's up with those wheels? Maybe the roads in Portland are
extremely well maintained 🙂.
http://www.cyclingnews.com/tech.php?id=photos/2005/tech/features/trek_urban/trek_portland1

Dan

That's because the "upgrade" to those wheels is a pair of 36h wheels...
It's obvious that the intent here with those bikes is fashion.

Advertisable features anyway. What is that a fragile cross bike?

Ron

Quoted message said:

What's up with those wheels? Maybe the roads in Portland are extremely
well maintained 🙂.

They are *very* durable wheels. The rims are built to take quite a beating
(city potholes etc) and it's not likely that an increased spoke count would
contribute significantly to wheel strength. Spoke failure in such wheels is
exceptionally rare. In general, as the number of spokes increases, the rim
can be lighter for similar strength. But since these wheels are built to
survive substantial impacts, requiring heavier rims to prevent denting,
there's no real advantage to using a greater number of spokes (since spokes
don't have much to do with dentability).

Besides, what's wrong with a bit of style in a commute bike? Obviously
"style" is in the eye of the beholder; some will like it, others won't. But
it will look distinctive and attract attention (or else this thread wouldn't
exist), and that's not a bad thing if you're a manufacturer or retailer.

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReactionBicycles.com

Might have potential to be an ultimate commute bike,
with the addition of fenders, a rack, panniers, lights, a strong lock, front
reflector, puncture-resistant tyres, tape over the logos...

Mike Jacoubowsky said:

Quoted message said:

What's up with those wheels? Maybe the roads in Portland are extremely
well maintained 🙂.

They are *very* durable wheels.

Quoted message said:

Besides, what's wrong with a bit of style in a commute bike? Obviously
"style" is in the eye of the beholder; some will like it, others won't. But
it will look distinctive and attract attention (or else this thread wouldn't
exist), and that's not a bad thing if you're a manufacturer or retailer.

nothing wrong with style but leaving aside the question of durability I
don't think a bike without mudguards or a rack or a lighting system
could be described as an ultimate commuter

best wishes
james

In article <[email hidden]>, Phil,

Squid-in-Training said:

Dan Connelly said:

What's up with those wheels? Maybe the roads in Portland are
extremely well maintained 🙂.

http://www.cyclingnews.com/tech.php?id=photos/2005/tech/features/trek_urban/
trek_portland1

Dan

That's because the "upgrade" to those wheels is a pair of 36h wheels...
It's obvious that the intent here with those bikes is fashion.

More innocent squirrels sacrificed! What price vanity?

Luke

In article <[email hidden]>, Mike

Jacoubowsky said:

Quoted message said:

What's up with those wheels? Maybe the roads in Portland are extremely
well maintained 🙂.

They are *very* durable wheels. The rims are built to take quite a beating
(city potholes etc) and it's not likely that an increased spoke count would
contribute significantly to wheel strength. Spoke failure in such wheels is
exceptionally rare. In general, as the number of spokes increases, the rim
can be lighter for similar strength. But since these wheels are built to
survive substantial impacts, requiring heavier rims to prevent denting,
there's no real advantage to using a greater number of spokes (since spokes
don't have much to do with dentability).

Besides, what's wrong with a bit of style in a commute bike? Obviously
"style" is in the eye of the beholder; some will like it, others won't. But
it will look distinctive and attract attention (or else this thread wouldn't
exist), and that's not a bad thing if you're a manufacturer or retailer.

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReactionBicycles.com

The following description from
http://www.cyclingnews.com/tech.php?id=tech/2005/features/trek_urban

Quoted post said:

Trek Portland's impressive mechanical details start with Shimano 105
2x10 gearing w/ Shimano STI shifting and a Bontrager Compact 36/50
Crankset. Hoops are the new lightweight and durable Bontrager Select
Disc Road wheel system featuring Bonty's paired spoke technology, a
smooth Bontrager Satellite Elite carbon fibre fork, mated to a Trek
Alpha SLR (smooth weld) aluminum frame with integrated disc mounts.
Avid BB disc brakes make for efficient all-weather stopping and the
cool quick-release mini fenders make the Trek Portland a diverse urban
commuter that can convert to a weekend fast touring bike.

Please note: You get a 'Disc road wheel system'. Pity the deprived
commuter who just makes do with a wheel - it's no good unless it has a
system. How about those 'cool quick-release mini fenders'? Perfect in a
downpour that transforms Bontrager's Select Wheel System into Bonty's
bidet spray system, shooting a jet of water up the derriere of the
fashionable commuter's neon green spandex kit. No doubt about it, this
ain't your everyday homogeneous rural racer, the Trek Portand is a
bonafide 'diverse urban commuter'!!

Hmmm, that's strange. No mention of smooth weld braze-ons or carbon
fibre rack mount systems in the writeup. I suppose a commuter needn't
bother with these ornaments.

Luke

Quoted message said:

Mike Jacoubowsky said:

Quoted message said:

What's up with those wheels? Maybe the roads in Portland are extremely
well maintained 🙂.

They are *very* durable wheels.

Quoted message said:

Besides, what's wrong with a bit of style in a commute bike? Obviously
"style" is in the eye of the beholder; some will like it, others won't. But
it will look distinctive and attract attention (or else this thread wouldn't
exist), and that's not a bad thing if you're a manufacturer or retailer.

nothing wrong with style but leaving aside the question of durability I
don't think a bike without mudguards or a rack or a lighting system
could be described as an ultimate commuter

Maybe it never rains in Portland.

On the question of durability: for a commuter, I want a bike with excess spoke
capacity. One breaks, I true up the rest, and still get to work. I am skeptical
those wheels have the robustness or strength of 36 hole 3-cross. So,
"durability aside"? Nothing aside about it: durability is the whole point.

For many people, my experience in Vietnam
me: http://www.djconnel.com/photos/VietnamThailand2005/hue_djcbike.jpg
more experienced cyclists: http://www.djconnel.com/photos/VietnamThailand2005/hue_loadedcyclist.jpg
convinced me something more in the line of http://www.breezer.com/ is more suitable.

I still like my "racing" bike, though....

Dan

In article <[email hidden]>,

Luke said:

In article <[email hidden]>, Mike

Jacoubowsky said:

Quoted message said:

What's up with those wheels? Maybe the roads in Portland are extremely
well maintained 🙂.

They are *very* durable wheels. The rims are built to take quite a beating
(city potholes etc) and it's not likely that an increased spoke count would
contribute significantly to wheel strength. Spoke failure in such wheels is
exceptionally rare. In general, as the number of spokes increases, the rim
can be lighter for similar strength. But since these wheels are built to
survive substantial impacts, requiring heavier rims to prevent denting,
there's no real advantage to using a greater number of spokes (since spokes
don't have much to do with dentability).

Besides, what's wrong with a bit of style in a commute bike? Obviously
"style" is in the eye of the beholder; some will like it, others won't. But
it will look distinctive and attract attention (or else this thread
wouldn't
exist), and that's not a bad thing if you're a manufacturer or retailer.

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReactionBicycles.com

The following description from
http://www.cyclingnews.com/tech.php?id=tech/2005/features/trek_urban

Quoted post said:

Trek Portland's impressive mechanical details start with Shimano 105
2x10 gearing w/ Shimano STI shifting and a Bontrager Compact 36/50
Crankset. Hoops are the new lightweight and durable Bontrager Select
Disc Road wheel system featuring Bonty's paired spoke technology, a
smooth Bontrager Satellite Elite carbon fibre fork, mated to a Trek
Alpha SLR (smooth weld) aluminum frame with integrated disc mounts.
Avid BB disc brakes make for efficient all-weather stopping and the
cool quick-release mini fenders make the Trek Portland a diverse urban
commuter that can convert to a weekend fast touring bike.

Please note: You get a 'Disc road wheel system'. Pity the deprived
commuter who just makes do with a wheel - it's no good unless it has a
system. How about those 'cool quick-release mini fenders'? Perfect in a
downpour that transforms Bontrager's Select Wheel System into Bonty's
bidet spray system, shooting a jet of water up the derriere of the
fashionable commuter's neon green spandex kit. No doubt about it, this
ain't your everyday homogeneous rural racer, the Trek Portand is a
bonafide 'diverse urban commuter'!!

Hmmm, that's strange. No mention of smooth weld braze-ons or carbon
fibre rack mount systems in the writeup. I suppose a commuter needn't
bother with these ornaments.

The big photo on the Trek site makes it obvious that the Portland has
all the necessary mounting points for a normal rear rack: threaded
mounts on the sides of the seat stays and holes in the dropout area. It
looks like there may be two sets of holes near the rear dropouts,
suggesting a full fender is also possible.

In Vancouver, Standard Procedure calls for the winter training bike to
have full fenders plus a long fender extension in the rear (the best
ones come within inches of the ground) to ensure comfortable group
rides. I believe that our combination of rideable-but-wet-and-gritty
conditions through most of the winter is particular on this continent to
the Pacific Northwest. A Hamiltonian visiting us last weekend mentioned
that fenders on training bikes is an unheard of phenomenon in Ontario,
but then there aren't many winter group rides in Hamilton, either.

http://www2.trekbikes.com/bikes/bike.php?bikeid=1037000&f=7

The specs on this page also suggest the Portland will include a triple
ring up front, despite the bike that Cyclingnews saw. The photo also
doesn't seem to show any front-fork mounting holes, but Trek already
makes a touring bike, and I see precious few commuters running front
racks.

Looks like it would make a pretty good disc-cyclocross bike, too, if the
frame clearances are there.

Full disclosure: I'm currently turning a 1970s Motobecane tourer into an
STI-equipped cyclocross bike.

--
Ryan Cousineau [email hidden] http://www.wiredcola.com/
"I don't want kids who are thinking about going into mathematics
to think that they have to take drugs to succeed." -Paul Erdos

In article <[email hidden]>,

Quoted message said:

Mike Jacoubowsky said:

Quoted message said:

What's up with those wheels? Maybe the roads in Portland are extremely
well maintained 🙂.

They are *very* durable wheels.

Quoted message said:

Besides, what's wrong with a bit of style in a commute bike? Obviously
"style" is in the eye of the beholder; some will like it, others won't. But
it will look distinctive and attract attention (or else this thread wouldn't
exist), and that's not a bad thing if you're a manufacturer or retailer.

nothing wrong with style but leaving aside the question of durability I
don't think a bike without mudguards or a rack or a lighting system
could be described as an ultimate commuter

The bike does come with mudguards, at least as advertised on Trek's
site. It also has the proper mounting points for a rear rack, and
presumably Trek is clever enough to think that commuters willing to drop
a grand or so on a new bike are going to have their own preferences in
racks and (especially!) bike lights.

This is no Dutch city bike, but on the other hand, it's almost certainly
faster than a Dutch city bike.

--
Ryan Cousineau [email hidden] http://www.wiredcola.com/
"I don't want kids who are thinking about going into mathematics
to think that they have to take drugs to succeed." -Paul Erdos

Luke said:

In article <[email hidden]>, Mike

Jacoubowsky said:

Quoted message said:

What's up with those wheels? Maybe the roads in Portland are extremely
well maintained 🙂.

They are *very* durable wheels. The rims are built to take quite a beating
(city potholes etc) and it's not likely that an increased spoke count would
contribute significantly to wheel strength. Spoke failure in such wheels is
exceptionally rare. In general, as the number of spokes increases, the rim
can be lighter for similar strength. But since these wheels are built to
survive substantial impacts, requiring heavier rims to prevent denting,
there's no real advantage to using a greater number of spokes (since spokes
don't have much to do with dentability).

Besides, what's wrong with a bit of style in a commute bike? Obviously
"style" is in the eye of the beholder; some will like it, others won't. But
it will look distinctive and attract attention (or else this thread wouldn't
exist), and that's not a bad thing if you're a manufacturer or retailer.

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReactionBicycles.com

The following description from
http://www.cyclingnews.com/tech.php?id=tech/2005/features/trek_urban

Quoted post said:

Trek Portland's impressive mechanical details start with Shimano 105
2x10 gearing w/ Shimano STI shifting and a Bontrager Compact 36/50
Crankset. Hoops are the new lightweight and durable Bontrager Select
Disc Road wheel system featuring Bonty's paired spoke technology, a
smooth Bontrager Satellite Elite carbon fibre fork, mated to a Trek
Alpha SLR (smooth weld) aluminum frame with integrated disc mounts.
Avid BB disc brakes make for efficient all-weather stopping and the
cool quick-release mini fenders make the Trek Portland a diverse urban
commuter that can convert to a weekend fast touring bike.

And this babble is presented in Cycling News in the guise of a "Tech
Feature"! What it really is is an overheated magazine hack
regurgitating the hype of a Trek marketing flak. IOW, this is
effectively a Trek press release. So much for "journalism".

Quoted message said:

Please note: You get a 'Disc road wheel system'. Pity the deprived
commuter who just makes do with a wheel - it's no good unless it has a
system. How about those 'cool quick-release mini fenders'? Perfect in a
downpour that transforms Bontrager's Select Wheel System into Bonty's
bidet spray system, shooting a jet of water up the derriere of the
fashionable commuter's neon green spandex kit. No doubt about it, this
ain't your everyday homogeneous rural racer, the Trek Portand is a
bonafide 'diverse urban commuter'!!

Hmmm, that's strange. No mention of smooth weld braze-ons or carbon
fibre rack mount systems in the writeup. I suppose a commuter needn't
bother with these ornaments.

Luke

Dan Connelly said:

What's up with those wheels? Maybe the roads in Portland are extremely well maintained 🙂.

http://www.cyclingnews.com/tech.php?id=photos/2005/tech/features/trek_urban/trek_portland1

Dan

No racks, lights, fenders...hardly a 'commute' bike at all. Unless you
commute a round trip back home.

Ozark Bicycle said:

Luke said:

In article <[email hidden]>, Mike

Jacoubowsky said:

> What's up with those wheels? Maybe the roads in Portland are extremely
> well maintained 🙂.

They are *very* durable wheels. The rims are built to take quite a beating
(city potholes etc) and it's not likely that an increased spoke count would
contribute significantly to wheel strength. Spoke failure in such wheels is
exceptionally rare. In general, as the number of spokes increases, the rim
can be lighter for similar strength. But since these wheels are built to
survive substantial impacts, requiring heavier rims to prevent denting,
there's no real advantage to using a greater number of spokes (since spokes
don't have much to do with dentability).

Besides, what's wrong with a bit of style in a commute bike? Obviously
"style" is in the eye of the beholder; some will like it, others won't. But
it will look distinctive and attract attention (or else this thread wouldn't
exist), and that's not a bad thing if you're a manufacturer or retailer.

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReactionBicycles.com

The following description from
http://www.cyclingnews.com/tech.php?id=tech/2005/features/trek_urban

Quoted post said:

Trek Portland's impressive mechanical details start with Shimano 105
2x10 gearing w/ Shimano STI shifting and a Bontrager Compact 36/50
Crankset. Hoops are the new lightweight and durable Bontrager Select
Disc Road wheel system featuring Bonty's paired spoke technology, a
smooth Bontrager Satellite Elite carbon fibre fork, mated to a Trek
Alpha SLR (smooth weld) aluminum frame with integrated disc mounts.
Avid BB disc brakes make for efficient all-weather stopping and the
cool quick-release mini fenders make the Trek Portland a diverse urban
commuter that can convert to a weekend fast touring bike.

And this babble is presented in Cycling News in the guise of a "Tech
Feature"! What it really is is an overheated magazine hack
regurgitating the hype of a Trek marketing flak. IOW, this is
effectively a Trek press release. So much for "journalism".

As long as places like CN and any other bike mag survives on
advertising, you may as well forget about journalism.

Most mags could give their rags away for free and still survive, with
advert $, so they are pretty
unlikely to badmouth a big advertiser, like Trek.

As for the bicycle, stylish but not as functional as it could be.
Paired spokes are just plain marketing 101, in spite of Rolf(now
Bontrager) paired spoke 'technology'.

When I hear,' add 16 spokes and reduce the weight of the rim', I just
cringe. 16 spokes weigh 120 grams. What trek ought to do is keep the
weight of the rim the same but use 36 spokes but that wouldn't be
fashionable, fo course.

If Trek was really interested in making a commuter, it would be very
different, as mentioned by all but one of the posters.

The trek L200-400 range are ultimate commuters, and I bet they're
designed in Holland:
http://www.trekbikes.com/bikes/2004/citybike/l200.jsp

I asked about that model at my local Trek dealer, the saleslady said,
"I have no idea what you're talking about" then turned, walked away,
and ignored me.

The second Trek dealer was unable to find it on the site. I begged:
"just google Trek L200", but the young man refused. He did say that if
I was to find a SA hub, they could build me a wheel.

Third bike shop around here that I visited recently, the kid behind the
counter asked, "what are those cool silver strips over your tires?!"
Obviously he had never seen a skinny tired bike with full coverage
fenders before.

All this leads me to believe that Trek and Co. are part of a big
conspiracy to not let us buy normal commuter bikes. Scary.

Some shops like Chicago's Rapid Transit remain unbrainwashed.

Dan Connelly said:

Quoted message said:

Mike Jacoubowsky said:

> What's up with those wheels? Maybe the roads in Portland are extremely
> well maintained 🙂.

They are *very* durable wheels.

Quoted message said:

Besides, what's wrong with a bit of style in a commute bike? Obviously
"style" is in the eye of the beholder; some will like it, others
won't. But
it will look distinctive and attract attention (or else this thread
wouldn't
exist), and that's not a bad thing if you're a manufacturer or retailer.

nothing wrong with style but leaving aside the question of durability I
don't think a bike without mudguards or a rack or a lighting system
could be described as an ultimate commuter

Maybe it never rains in Portland.

Bzzzt! Thanks for playing [but that answer is incorrect] :-)

I'm reminded of the cheezy movie "Crocodile Dundee" in which the
outback-toughened Aussie is confronted by a NYC mugger. "He's got a
knife!" the female lead cries. "That's not a knife.... THIS is a knife"
he replies, pulling out a much larger blade.

So, re the Trek "Portland" - That's not a commuter... heck, you couldn't
even fit studded tires on that thing! Necessary in Portland (OR) for
year-round commuting in the ice storms, as "PDX" had last weekend.

[gotta get some pictures of my commuto-tank up, which I sometimes
lovingly refer to as my urban assault vehicle]

Mark

A very strong lock indeed.

A few years ago when I was working at a bike store these "commute"
bikes were being marketed, and they were mainly just cross bikes. We
laughed at them, because anyone who paid $1200 for a commute bike was
going to make sure they had off-street, corporate lock-up, or it came
right into their office with them! For commuting we sold far more of
the $500 hybrid bikes, some of which came with fenders installed.

To me, the biggest feature for a commute bike is the ability for it to
stay outside at work and remain relatively unmolested. While some
workplaces do have secure lock-ups, in downtown situations lots of
folks just have to leave their steed locked up on city streets. This
bike, with its fancy wheels and disc brakes, would not last long in
most urban settings.

Mark

Qui si parla Campagnolo said:

Dan Connelly said:

What's up with those wheels? Maybe the roads in Portland are extremely well maintained 🙂.

http://www.cyclingnews.com/tech.php?id=photos/2005/tech/features/trek_urban/trek_portland1

Dan

No racks, lights, fenders...hardly a 'commute' bike at all. Unless you
commute a round trip back home.

I suspect the target market for this bike is those who will use it to
"commute" to the local Starbucks for an overpriced cuppa.

Ozark Bicycle said:

I suspect the target market for this bike is those who will use it to
"commute" to the local Starbucks for an overpriced cuppa.

NING NING NING NING NINGGGG!

We have a winnah!

That bike gets the form over function award. I'd rather see provisions
for mounting real fenders vs. those vestigal jokes that look like a
slight upgrade from those bitty chrome fenders from the early
seventies.

Might make a decent CX bike.

In addition to everything mentioned: a commuter bike needs to be low
maintainance, if you insist on having derailleurs, a single ring up
front to keep it simple is nice (unless you live in SF).

The parts need to be tried and true, not because something new won't
work well, but if your front wheel gets stolen, it's less painful to
replace it with a Sora/Sun CR18, than an exotic number that shaves
0.002 seconds from your commute time.

Commuter bikes also need to have provisions for locking to poles--scuff
guards, but I've yet to see this. Electrical tape works OK, and most
modern powdercoat is almost tough enough, but a clip on plastic sleeve
needs to be standard.

Ryan Cousineau said:

Full disclosure: I'm currently turning a 1970s Motobecane tourer into an
STI-equipped cyclocross bike.

Which '70s Moto? Over last winter, I built up a 70s Moto Grand Jubile
frame/fork using newer components (but, all the parts were available
prior to ~'91). At the time, I thought it would be a very occasional
ride, mostly a conversation piece. But it's really a nice ride (and
nice to look at with it's Nervex lugs and classic paint scheme), and I
rode it quite alot this year. It's also an interesting reminder of far
things *haven't* come.