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Vandeman - Why we do it

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Mountain Bikes
Published
25 October 2005
Last activity
6 November 2005
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S Curtiss
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  1. MV.> You guys still haven't been able to answer my original question!: "Why
    is the supply of Idiot Mountain Bikers ENDLESS???"

    Quoted message said:

    .> .


    Because your slander on the effects of offroad cycling is endless - DUH!

    Quoted message said:

    .>


    MV.> And just how does that turn mountain bikers into idiots, as you suggest
    it does?

    Quoted message said:

    More likely, they were from the beginning.


    And just how does your response support your slander...? Likely, your
    slander was there from the beginning ...
    You may actually be partially correct... Your continuous slander draws us
    into a conversation with an idiot.

    Quoted message said:


    MV.> Mountain bikers have no will power whatsoever.

    Yeah.... It should be easy to ignore the ramblings of a simpleton. It should
    be easy to ignore a self-proclaimed "expert" who hides behind selected bits
    and pieces of information. It should be easy to step away from a discussion
    which ultimately has no intellectual conclusion because the "expert" can
    only defend his claims by resorting to name-calling and character
    assassination.
    But you make it so damn easy to have fun picking your silly assertions
    apart... It is so much fun to watch you fall apart and start throwing the
    names around. It is a game for the rest of us to see which one can get you
    to say "yawn", "did you say something?" or throw a name at us. You are a
    text driven video game.
    Why do we play the game? So anyone else looking for real information will
    know you are not the source of it.

    SC

  2. Actually, MV trolling is almost as irritating as MV posts. Can we talk
    about biking now?

  3. I apologise for the cross-post. I generally consider that spam, it was
    unintentional.

    "GWood" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    Actually, MV trolling is almost as irritating as MV posts. Can we talk
    about biking now?

  4. "GWood" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    Actually, MV trolling is almost as irritating as MV posts. Can we talk
    about biking now?

    Ok then talk My bike is red and has 2 wheels, it's very fast but I
    can't make it go fast.

    Gee, this is exciting!!

  5. On Tue, 25 Oct 2005 22:57:57 GMT, "GWood" <[email hidden]> wrote:

    ..Actually, MV trolling is almost as irritating as MV posts. Can we talk
    ..about biking now?

    No, you don't have the will power to resist changing the subject to Mike
    Vandeman. I have proven that over & over, for 10 years. Mountain bikers have no
    will power whatsoever!
    ===
    I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
    humans ("pure habitat"😉. Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
    years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)

    http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande

  6. On Tue, 25 Oct 2005 18:11:29 -0500, "di" <[email hidden]> wrote:

    ..
    .."GWood" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    ..news:[email hidden]...
    ..> Actually, MV trolling is almost as irritating as MV posts. Can we talk
    ..> about biking now?
    ..>
    ..
    ..
    ..Ok then talk My bike is red and has 2 wheels, it's very fast but I
    ..can't make it go fast.
    ..
    ..Gee, this is exciting!!

    Yawn.
    ===
    I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
    humans ("pure habitat"😉. Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
    years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)

    http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande

  7. * Mike Vandeman <[email hidden]>:

    Quoted message said:

    On Tue, 25 Oct 2005 18:11:29 -0500, "di" <[email hidden]> wrote:

    .
    ."GWood" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    .news:[email hidden]...
    .> Actually, MV trolling is almost as irritating as MV posts. Can we talk
    .> about biking now?
    .>
    .
    .
    .Ok then talk My bike is red and has 2 wheels, it's very fast but I
    .can't make it go fast.
    .
    .Gee, this is exciting!!

    Yawn.

    Your capitulition on all points is duly noted.

    Jason

  8. S Curtiss said:

    MV.> You guys still haven't been able to answer my original question!: "Why
    is the supply of Idiot Mountain Bikers ENDLESS???"

    Quoted message said:

    .> .


    Because your slander on the effects of offroad cycling is endless - DUH!

    I do it cos MV is addictive like most substances that are bad for you
    but you cant help but indulge in every so often.

    J

  9. On Wed, 26 Oct 2005 03:29:11 GMT, Mike Vandeman <[email hidden]>
    said in <[email hidden]>:

    Quoted message said:

    Thou doth protest too much. You don't act like people "having fun", but people
    TERRIFIED that someone will learn the TRUTH (see below) about your selfish,
    destructive, disgusting sport.

    In the same way that equal opportunities activists knock the Klan
    because they don't want them to tell "the truth" about black people,
    yes. Because, as has been pointed out many many times, you tell "the
    truth" about mountain biking the way Aryan Nation tell "the truth"
    about the worldwide Jewish conspiracy.

    This is, of course, precisely what we have come to expect from
    Vandeman, the paranoid trolling evasive lazy lying hypocritical
    habitat-destroying crapflooding bigot. And we get the last laugh
    because your pointless trolling has undoubtedly done both your cause
    and your reputation, such as it ever was, more harm than good!

    I say the last laugh - probably the only laugh as there is precious
    little evidence of you having a sense of humour.

    Guy
    --
    May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after posting.
    http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk

    85% of helmet statistics are made up, 69% of them at CHS, Puget Sound

  10. On Wed, 26 Oct 2005 03:31:09 GMT, Mike Vandeman <[email hidden]>
    said in <[email hidden]>:

    Quoted message said:

    .Actually, MV trolling is almost as irritating as MV posts. Can we talk
    .about biking now?

    Quoted message said:

    No, you don't have the will power to resist changing the subject to Mike
    Vandeman. I have proven that over & over, for 10 years. Mountain bikers have no
    will power whatsoever!

    False. What you have proven is that this group despises paranoid
    trolling evasive lazy lying hypocritical habitat-destroying
    crapflooding bigots like you. You have never advanced a shred of
    evidence to suggest that this group is in any way unusual in this
    reaction.

    Guy
    --
    May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after posting.
    http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk

    85% of helmet statistics are made up, 69% of them at CHS, Puget Sound

  11. Guy said:

    False. What you have proven is that this group despises paranoid
    trolling evasive lazy lying hypocritical habitat-destroying
    crapflooding bigots like you. You have never advanced a shred of
    evidence to suggest that this group is in any way unusual in this
    reaction.

    DUH!!

    --Karen D.
    just helping out, realized something was missing

  12. "Mike Vandeman" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    On Tue, 25 Oct 2005 15:02:22 -0400, "S Curtiss" <[email hidden]>
    wrote:

    Thou doth protest too much. You don't act like people "having fun", but
    people
    TERRIFIED that someone will learn the TRUTH (see below) about your
    selfish,
    destructive, disgusting sport.

    .SC

    The Impacts of Mountain Biking on Wildlife and People --
    A Review of the Literature
    Michael J. Vandeman, Ph.D.
    July 3, 2004


    Again....?
    If anyone is reading any of this in search of real information, then by all
    means, click on MV's site below and read his "research".
    But DO NOT STOP by taking his "research" as fact. Check the International
    Mountain Biking Association website.
    Check any and all sources you can find on mountain biking, hiking and the
    comparative effects of both on environment and wildlife.
    You will find MV's "research" has been carefully selected and worded to
    express his personal viewpoint. You will fins he has "spoken" at several
    conferences and symposiums. Of that, you will find these conferences did not
    invite him as a keynote speaker, but rather he invited himself as anyone can
    do by answering a "call for papers" witch results in 15 or 20 minutes to
    make your presentation. You will also find, if you do any research on MV
    himself, there is no real mention of him or his "research" outside of
    reference listing websites, which he also sent his own information out to be
    listed. No other researcher mentions him... no other scientist or
    biologist, no other attendee at these conferences makes mention of him.
    Do a Google search of Usenet on MV... you will find years of data of which
    he has talked himself into a corner and exited by calling everyone "liars"
    and "idiots".
    Spend a rainy afternoon if you want a good laugh.
    But don't take my word for it.... or his. Just read it all for yourself.
    Then go have a nice ride in the woods with a clear frame of mind.

    Quoted message said:


    http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande

  13. "Jason" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    * Mike Vandeman <[email hidden]>:

    Quoted message said:

    On Tue, 25 Oct 2005 18:11:29 -0500, "di" <[email hidden]> wrote:

    Yawn.

    Your capitulition on all points is duly noted.

    Jason

    Excellent!

  14. On 26 Oct 2005 05:38:07 -0700, "Coyoteboy" <[email hidden]> wrote:

    ..
    ..S Curtiss wrote:
    ..> MV.> You guys still haven't been able to answer my original question!: "Why
    ..> is the supply of Idiot Mountain Bikers ENDLESS???"
    ..> > .> .
    ..> Because your slander on the effects of offroad cycling is endless - DUH!
    ..
    ..I do it cos MV is addictive like most substances that are bad for you
    ..but you cant help but indulge in every so often.

    Mountain biking is also an addiction (which is a craving that cannot be
    satisfied by what is craved).

    ..J

    ===
    I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
    humans ("pure habitat"😉. Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
    years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)

    http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande

  15. On Wed, 26 Oct 2005 21:34:50 +0100, "Just zis Guy, you know?" <[email hidden]>
    wrote:

    ..On Wed, 26 Oct 2005 03:29:11 GMT, Mike Vandeman <[email hidden]>
    ..said in <[email hidden]>:
    ..
    ..>Thou doth protest too much. You don't act like people "having fun", but people
    ..>TERRIFIED that someone will learn the TRUTH (see below) about your selfish,
    ..>destructive, disgusting sport.
    ..
    ..In the same way that equal opportunities activists knock the Klan
    ..because they don't want them to tell "the truth" about black people,
    ..yes. Because, as has been pointed out many many times, you tell "the
    ..truth" about mountain biking the way Aryan Nation tell "the truth"
    ..about the worldwide Jewish conspiracy.
    ..
    ..This is, of course, precisely what we have come to expect from
    ..Vandeman, the paranoid trolling evasive lazy lying hypocritical
    ..habitat-destroying crapflooding bigot. And we get the last laugh

    You are LYING again. You are far from laughing. More like desperate to get
    people to believe that the Emperor is wearing clothes.

    ..because your pointless trolling has undoubtedly done both your cause
    ..and your reputation, such as it ever was, more harm than good!
    ..
    ..I say the last laugh - probably the only laugh as there is precious
    ..little evidence of you having a sense of humour.
    ..
    ..Guy

    ===
    I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
    humans ("pure habitat"😉. Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
    years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)

    http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande

  16. On Wed, 26 Oct 2005 22:31:44 -0400, "S Curtiss" <[email hidden]> wrote:

    ..
    .."Mike Vandeman" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    ..news:[email hidden]...
    ..> On Tue, 25 Oct 2005 15:02:22 -0400, "S Curtiss" <[email hidden]>
    ..> wrote:
    ..>
    ..> Thou doth protest too much. You don't act like people "having fun", but
    ..> people
    ..> TERRIFIED that someone will learn the TRUTH (see below) about your
    ..> selfish,
    ..> destructive, disgusting sport.
    ..>
    ..> .SC
    ..>
    ..> The Impacts of Mountain Biking on Wildlife and People --
    ..> A Review of the Literature
    ..> Michael J. Vandeman, Ph.D.
    ..> July 3, 2004
    ..>
    ..Again....?
    ..If anyone is reading any of this in search of real information, then by all
    ..means, click on MV's site below and read his "research".
    ..But DO NOT STOP by taking his "research" as fact. Check the International
    ..Mountain Biking Association website.

    No real science there! Only JUNK science (propaganda).

    ..Check any and all sources you can find on mountain biking, hiking and the
    ..comparative effects of both on environment and wildlife.

    BS. Most sources on mountain biking are nothing but PROPAGANDA. If you can find
    even ONE reliable scientific source that supports mountain biking, you have
    completely failed to produce it! (HINT: It doesn't exist.)

    ..You will find MV's "research" has been carefully selected and worded to
    ..express his personal viewpoint. You will fins he has "spoken" at several
    ..conferences and symposiums. Of that, you will find these conferences did not
    ..invite him as a keynote speaker, but rather he invited himself as anyone can
    ..do by answering a "call for papers" witch results in 15 or 20 minutes to
    ..make your presentation. You will also find, if you do any research on MV
    ..himself, there is no real mention of him or his "research" outside of
    ..reference listing websites, which he also sent his own information out to be
    ..listed. No other researcher mentions him... no other scientist or
    ..biologist, no other attendee at these conferences makes mention of him.
    ..Do a Google search of Usenet on MV... you will find years of data of which
    ..he has talked himself into a corner and exited by calling everyone "liars"
    ..and "idiots".
    ..Spend a rainy afternoon if you want a good laugh.
    ..But don't take my word for it.... or his. Just read it all for yourself.
    ..Then go have a nice ride in the woods with a clear frame of mind.
    ..
    ..>
    ..> http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande
    ..

    ===
    I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
    humans ("pure habitat"😉. Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
    years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)

    http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande

  17. On Thu, 27 Oct 2005 04:36:58 GMT, Mike Vandeman <[email hidden]>
    said in <[email hidden]>:

    Quoted message said:

    .This is, of course, precisely what we have come to expect from
    .Vandeman, the paranoid trolling evasive lazy lying hypocritical
    .habitat-destroying crapflooding bigot. And we get the last laugh

    Quoted message said:

    You are LYING again. You are far from laughing. More like desperate to get
    people to believe that the Emperor is wearing clothes.

    False on two counts. Yes, I am laughing at you, you pathetic paranoid
    trolling evasive lazy lying hypocritical habitat-destroying
    crapflooding bigot, because with your every word you make it less
    likely that anyone will ever accept what you say.

    And since it is you who is advancing a hypothesis, and repeatedly
    failing to prove it as evidence the number of times your supposed
    "proof" is knocked down, it is you who is in the position of the
    Emperor's tailor.

    Guy
    --
    May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after posting.
    http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk

    85% of helmet statistics are made up, 69% of them at CHS, Puget Sound

  18. On Thu, 27 Oct 2005 04:40:06 GMT, Mike Vandeman <[email hidden]>
    said in <[email hidden]>:

    Quoted message said:

    No real science there! Only JUNK science (propaganda).

    On your website? So true.

    Guy
    --
    May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after posting.
    http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk

    85% of helmet statistics are made up, 69% of them at CHS, Puget Sound

  19. Mike Vandeman said:

    Mountain biking is also an addiction

    Correct.

    Quoted message said:

    (which is a craving that cannot be
    satisfied by what is craved).

    Incorrect. An addiction is simply something that gives a positive
    result (in a biochemical way) that the body wants more of and becomes
    desensitised to, requiring more of it as time goes on. However with
    mtbing theres always a cut-off point where the body is too over-worked
    to do more, at this point the positive craving is counteracted by the
    bodies natural urgest to sleep and rest to recover - hence it isnt a
    'dangerous' addiction that is unrelenting. Unless you fall off a lot.

    J

  20. "Mike Vandeman" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    On Wed, 26 Oct 2005 22:31:44 -0400, "S Curtiss" <[email hidden]> wrote:
    .>
    .> The Impacts of Mountain Biking on Wildlife and People --
    .> A Review of the Literature
    .> Michael J. Vandeman, Ph.D.
    .> July 3, 2004
    .>
    .Again....?
    .If anyone is reading any of this in search of real information, then by
    all
    .means, click on MV's site below and read his "research".
    .But DO NOT STOP by taking his "research" as fact. Check the International
    .Mountain Biking Association website.

    No real science there! Only JUNK science (propaganda).


    opinion. Your claim is no more valid than anyone else. Especially the
    researchers whose work you turn around out of context.

    Quoted message said:


    .Check any and all sources you can find on mountain biking, hiking and the
    .comparative effects of both on environment and wildlife.

    BS. Most sources on mountain biking are nothing but PROPAGANDA. If you can
    find
    even ONE reliable scientific source that supports mountain biking, you
    have
    completely failed to produce it! (HINT: It doesn't exist.)


    1. A study was done in Boyne Valley Provincial Park, located northwest of
    Toronto, Ontario, Canada in 1997 by the Department of Botany at the
    University of Guelph, Guelph, Ontario, Canada. The purpose was to compare
    effects of mountain biking and hiking on the soil and vegetation. There
    were three major findings in this study. First, impacts on vegetation and
    soil increased with biking and hiking activity. Second, the impacts of
    biking and hiking were not significantly different. Third, impacts did not
    extend beyond 30 cm of the trail centerline. One year after remediation
    efforts, these impacts were no longer detectable. These results indicate
    that at a similar intensity of activity, the short-term impacts of mountain
    biking and hiking may not differ greatly in the undisturbed area of a
    deciduous forest habitat. The immediate impacts of both activities can be
    severe but rapid recovery should be expected when the activities are not
    allowed to continue. (Eden Thurston and Richard Reader, 2001).
    2."Perception and Reality of Conflict: Walkers and Mountain Bikes on the
    Queen Charlotte Track in New Zealand": Gordon Cessford
    Despite the general perception otherwise, most available comparative reviews
    and studies have concluded that while visibly very different, the physical
    impacts of bikes on tracks were not any worse than those of walkers overall
    (Keller, 1990; Wilson & Seney, 1994; Chavez et al. 1993; Ruff & Mellors;
    1993, Cessford, 1995a; Woehrstein, 1998, 2001; Weir, 2000; Thurston &
    Reader, 2001😉. This appears to be the case whether considering important
    biological features or the physical state of the tracks. On this basis,
    selective restrictions to biking based on physical impact concerns may be
    inappropriate.
    3. Further sources, references and research found on the website of the
    International Mountain Biking Association. The information quoted above was
    found on non-IMBA sites.

    By no means is this a complete list. It does illustrate, however,
    information is available from non-Vandeman sources and is easy to locate.
    (example: search "mountain biking impacts" -vandeman) I would suggest anyone
    seeking information not rely on Vandeman alone. Especially if you want
    complete information. That is my point.

    Quoted message said:


    .You will find MV's "research" has been carefully selected and worded to
    .express his personal viewpoint. You will fins he has "spoken" at several
    .conferences and symposiums. Of that, you will find these conferences did
    not
    .invite him as a keynote speaker, but rather he invited himself as anyone
    can
    .do by answering a "call for papers" witch results in 15 or 20 minutes to
    .make your presentation. You will also find, if you do any research on MV
    .himself, there is no real mention of him or his "research" outside of
    .reference listing websites, which he also sent his own information out to
    be
    .listed. No other researcher mentions him... no other scientist or
    .biologist, no other attendee at these conferences makes mention of him.
    .Do a Google search of Usenet on MV... you will find years of data of
    which
    .he has talked himself into a corner and exited by calling everyone
    "liars"
    .and "idiots".
    .Spend a rainy afternoon if you want a good laugh.
    .But don't take my word for it.... or his. Just read it all for
    yourself.
    .Then go have a nice ride in the woods with a clear frame of mind.
    .
    .>
    .> http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande
    .

    ===
    I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
    humans ("pure habitat"😉. Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
    years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)

    http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande

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