Vanilla Extract - Dangerous?

Hark! I heard Frogleg <[email hidden]> say:

Quoted message said:

(j.j.) said:

Hark! I heard "Tank" <[email hidden]> say:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

It is in a small brown bottle, which looks like it has been reused. There is adhesive from a
previous label under the label for the vanilla.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

To cap is a sealed, twist off kind. It is made of metal, the kind where there is a separate
ring on the bottle, after you have opened it the first time.

The bottle sounds interesting -- dump the contents down the drain, and save it as a conversation
piece...

A recent post here (about sugar content in tomato sauce, I think) indicated that foods in Canada
don't bear the same ingredient and/or nutrition labels we have in the US. So I guess we should
dump all food items that haven't entered the USA with USDA approval labeling (sympathy to our
northern neighbors). My Grenada spice basket includes a number of items in small plastic bags and
a sort of hand-crafted label and info sheet. It never occurred to me to think these suspect
because they were without US gov't-approved labeling. Or were labeled without a 4-color press.

Hardly the same thing -- read this part again:

"It is in a small brown bottle, which looks like it has been reused. There is adhesive from a
previous label under the label for the vanilla."

If a third party gave me a bottle in this condition, *regardless* of country of origin, I simply
wouldn't consume it. YMMV...

--
j.j. ~ mom, gamer, novice cook ~ ..fish heads, fish heads, eat them up, yum!

Frogleg said:

(j.j.) said:

Hark! I heard "Tank" <[email hidden]> say:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

It is in a small brown bottle, which looks like it has been reused. There is adhesive from a
previous label under the label for the vanilla.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

To cap is a sealed, twist off kind. It is made of metal, the kind where there is a separate ring
on the bottle, after you have opened it the first time.

The bottle sounds interesting -- dump the contents down the drain, and save it as a conversation
piece...

A recent post here (about sugar content in tomato sauce, I think) indicated that foods in Canada
don't bear the same ingredient and/or nutrition labels we have in the US. So I guess we should
dump all food items that haven't entered the USA with USDA approval labeling (sympathy to our
northern neighbors). My Grenada spice basket includes a number of items in small plastic bags and
a sort of hand-crafted label and info sheet. It never occurred to me to think these suspect
because they were without US gov't-approved labeling. Or were labeled without a 4-color press.

But your spice bags contain raw agricultural products; like a bag of pinto beans, only smaller and
not as common. So they don't make a very good analogy.

Bob

In article said:

Why dont you make your own? Take a vanilla bean, split it down the center, open it up and put it
in a cup of vodka. Shake it once a day and after a week you have amazing vanilla extract, better
than you buy in the stores

So, one bean will flavor 8 ounces of extract? Last time I bought a pint from Penzy's, it was
something like $65, while beans go for around $2 apiece. That means they sold me 2 beans for the
price of thirty?

I think that this is way too little bean for the amount of alcohol, but I haven't tried it, and
apparently you have....

Mike Beede

Mike Beede said:

In article said:

Why dont you make your own? Take a vanilla bean, split it down the center, open it up and put it
in a cup of vodka. Shake it once a day and after a week you have amazing vanilla extract, better
than you buy in the stores

So, one bean will flavor 8 ounces of extract? Last time I bought a pint from Penzy's, it was
something like $65, while beans go for around $2 apiece. That means they sold me 2 beans for the
price of thirty?

I think that this is way too little bean for the amount of alcohol, but I haven't tried it, and
apparently you have....

Mike Beede

Cooks Illustrated tried it a few years ago, and much to their surprise, the homemade extract sucked
and was more expensive to make that commercial vanilla extract.

Bob

Frogleg <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

(j.j.) said:

Hark! I heard "Tank" <[email hidden]> say:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

It is in a small brown bottle, which looks like it has been reused. There is adhesive from a
previous label under the label for the vanilla.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

To cap is a sealed, twist off kind. It is made of metal, the kind where there is a separate
ring on the bottle, after you have opened it the first time.

The bottle sounds interesting -- dump the contents down the drain, and save it as a conversation
piece...

A recent post here (about sugar content in tomato sauce, I think) indicated that foods in Canada
don't bear the same ingredient and/or nutrition labels we have in the US. So I guess we should
dump all food items that haven't entered the USA with USDA approval labeling (sympathy to our
northern neighbors). My Grenada spice basket includes a number of items in small plastic bags and
a sort of hand-crafted label and info sheet. It never occurred to me to think these suspect
because they were without US gov't-approved labeling. Or were labeled without a 4-color press.

The labeling doesn't have a thing to do with whether the contents are suspect. Your analogies to
Canadian foods or the Grenada spice basket don't apply. Vanilla from an untrusted source is likely
to be adulterated; that is a fact of the vanilla trade, and there is no analogy to canned goods from
Canada or spices from Grenada or any other red herrings you may wish to drag across the discussion.
Since the adulterants are dangerous, and it is not practical for a consumer to determine whether
vanilla has been adulterated, and more than a few tourists are ignorant of the problem, the advice
to dump the vanilla was well taken and has nothing at all to do with the quality of the label.

--
Chris Green

On Tue, 20 Jan 2004 20:07:28 GMT, [email hidden] (j.j.)

Quoted message said:

Hark! I heard Frogleg <[email hidden]> say:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

includes a number of items in small plastic bags and a sort of hand-crafted label and info sheet.
It never occurred to me to think these suspect because they were without US gov't-approved
labeling. Or were labeled without a 4-color press.

Hardly the same thing -- read this part again:

"It is in a small brown bottle, which looks like it has been reused. There is adhesive from a
previous label under the label for the vanilla."

If a third party gave me a bottle in this condition, *regardless* of country of origin, I simply
wouldn't consume it. YMMV...

'Tank' also mentions that the bottle had an intact metal-sealed cap. That there was extra(?)
adhesive under the label implies a certain amount of sloppiness, not necessarily a previously-used
bottle. I was rather surprised watching 'Food Finds' the other day to see how many (US) commercial
products are bottled/packed rather casually in small quantities. I.e., a big pot with a spigot and a
human (in gloves) filling jars, putting on lids, and packing in boxes for shipment. I imagine they
occasionally spill a bit and need to re-label. Not saying this is the *only* explanation, but just a
reasonable one.

In fact, when soda came in glass bottles, most of them *were* reused. With a new metal cap. :-)

On 21 Jan 2004 10:58:14 -0800, [email hidden] (Christopher

Green) said:

The labeling doesn't have a thing to do with whether the contents are suspect. Your analogies to
Canadian foods or the Grenada spice basket don't apply. Vanilla from an untrusted source is likely
to be adulterated; that is a fact of the vanilla trade, and there is no analogy to canned goods
from Canada or spices from Grenada or any other red herrings you may wish to drag across the
discussion. Since the adulterants are dangerous, and it is not practical for a consumer to
determine whether vanilla has been adulterated, and more than a few tourists are ignorant of the
problem, the advice to dump the vanilla was well taken and has nothing at all to do with the
quality of the label.

My goodness, you're testy. :-) All vanilla from an "untrusted" source is suspect? I think if a
friendwent to some trouble to bring me a bottle of vanilla (or rum or jam or...), I'd give it a
shot. Are you by any chance USAsian? Suspicious of anything not stamped by the USDA/FDA?

I have no axe to grind. I'm not promoting poisonous foodstuffs. I did a fair amount of web research,
and it seemed to me that unless a kid slips you a bottle purported to contain vanilla under the
table while whispering "for you -- 10 cents," there's a fair chance it's OK vanilla. What
"adulterants" do you expect in foreign vanilla?

I mentioned Canadian labeling practices because I recently found they were different from those in
the US. I mentioned Grenadan (Granadian? Grenadine?) spices because the OP said his vanilla gift was
a product of Grenada and I know it's a spice island that produces vanilla, among other things. I
*didn't* tell the OP to chug his vanilla gift. I merely said from his description and what I've been
able to gather, it was probably quite genuine (and possibly superior) vanilla.

I am as entitled to my opinion that he should enjoy it as others are to say "dump it." However, I
hope if he decides not to use it that he passes it along to someone who would. I believe I'm 2nd (or
perhaps 3rd) in line.

Hark! I heard Frogleg <[email hidden]> say:

Quoted message said:

(j.j.) said:

Hark! I heard Frogleg <[email hidden]> say:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

includes a number of items in small plastic bags and a sort of hand-crafted label and info
sheet. It never occurred to me to think these suspect because they were without US gov't-
approved labeling. Or were labeled without a 4-color press.

Hardly the same thing -- read this part again:

"It is in a small brown bottle, which looks like it has been reused. There is adhesive from a
previous label under the label for the vanilla."

If a third party gave me a bottle in this condition, *regardless* of country of origin, I simply
wouldn't consume it. YMMV...

'Tank' also mentions that the bottle had an intact metal-sealed cap. That there was extra(?)
adhesive under the label implies a certain amount of sloppiness, not necessarily a previously-used
bottle. I was rather surprised watching 'Food Finds' the other day to see how many (US) commercial
products are bottled/packed rather casually in small quantities. I.e., a big pot with a spigot and
a human (in gloves) filling jars, putting on lids, and packing in boxes for shipment. I imagine
they occasionally spill a bit and need to re-label. Not saying this is the *only* explanation, but
just a reasonable one.

Well, if you want to be *reasonable*, this is the wrong newsgroup. ;-)

Quoted message said:

In fact, when soda came in glass bottles, most of them *were* reused. With a new metal cap. :-)

You have a good point. I still don't know if I'd want to try the stuff in Tank's bottle, but I do
see your point...

--
j.j. ~ mom, gamer, novice cook ~ ..fish heads, fish heads, eat them up, yum!

Quoted message said:

(Nancree) said:

Quoted message said:

>Does anyone have any suggestions as to how I might determine if this vanilla is safe to use?

======================
If the label has "no coumarin" on it it is safe to use. And it's delicious. My friends and
neighbors and I have used it for years. nancree

What the heck is coumarin?

It is a chemical found in many plants -- lavender, woodruff, sweet clover, and Tonka beans, which
are a spice with a flavor similar to vanilla, although much cheaper to produce. In high
concentrations, coumarin can be toxic. It is used medically as a prescription blood-thinner/anti-
coagulant, and cancer-treating drug, and as an ingredient rodent poison designed to make the little
buggers bleed internally.

US importation of food products containing coumarin was banned in 1940, 'though I haven't been able
to discover why.

US-bottled vanilla does *not* carry a "no courmarin" label.

In article <[email hidden]>,

Frogleg said:

Quoted message said:

(Nancree) said:

>>Does anyone have any suggestions as to how I might determine if this vanilla is safe to use?
======================
If the label has "no coumarin" on it it is safe to use. And it's delicious.

So, coumarin is a banned substance, but if a manufaturer was unscrupulous enough to use it in
"vanilla", you would still trust them to tell you that they did, by saying so on the label.

Interesting.

Isaac

On Fri, 23 Jan 2004 04:42:30 GMT, Isaac Wingfield <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Frogleg said:

Quoted message said:

On 19 Jan 2004 21:51:09 GMT, [email hidden] (Nancree) wrote:

>>>Does anyone have any suggestions as to how I might determine if this vanilla is safe to use?
>======================
>If the label has "no coumarin" on it it is safe to use. And it's delicious.

So, coumarin is a banned substance, but if a manufaturer was unscrupulous enough to use it in
"vanilla", you would still trust them to tell you that they did, by saying so on the label.

You quoted no material that I wrote, so I don't know what your quarrel is or with whom.

jmcquown said:

Tank said:

Hi Group,

My wife received a small bottle of imported vanilla extract as a gift from her boss, who had
taken a Carribean cruise. I am wondering about the safety of using this.

It is in a small brown bottle, which looks like it has been reused.

(snip)

Vanilla isn't that expensive;

Since when? It's always been expensive but lately it's skyrocketed. I recently went to replenish my
supply from the bulk bin at the food coop. I didn't think much about it when I saw the $46/lb. price
tag as I buy bulk spices there all the time and the price per pound sounds high but when you get
enough to fill your spice jar it ends up costing $.36!!! I got about 4 fl. oz. of vanilla - just
enough to refill my bottle. It cost over $12!!!!! The last time I got some it was nowhere near that
- believe me I would have noticed!!!

I complained to the manager thinking maybe it was marked incorrectly but he explained that the
vanilla crops around the world have been very bad for the last couple of years so there's a premium
on what *is* available. Yikes!

Kate
--
Kate Connally “If I were as old as I feel, I’d be dead already.” Goldfish: “The wholesome snack that
smiles back, Until you bite their heads off.” What if the hokey pokey really *is* what it's all
about? "][email hidden]

In article <[email hidden]>,

Frogleg said:

Isaac Wingfield said:

Frogleg said:

On Tue, 20 Jan 2004 04:49:59 -0600, [email hidden] wrote:

>On 19 Jan 2004 21:51:09 GMT, [email hidden] (Nancree) wrote:
>
>>>>Does anyone have any suggestions as to how I might determine if this vanilla is safe to
>>>>use?
>>======================
>>If the label has "no coumarin" on it it is safe to use. And it's delicious.

So, coumarin is a banned substance, but if a manufaturer was unscrupulous enough to use it in
"vanilla", you would still trust them to tell you that they did, by saying so on the label.

You quoted no material that I wrote, so I don't know what your quarrel is or with whom.

It was in response to the statement of "safety" directly above my reply, and was not directed at
you. Looks like the original poster's attribution is missing; I didn't notice that. Sorry.

Isaac

zxcvbob said:

Mike Beede said:

In article said:

Why dont you make your own? Take a vanilla bean, split it down the center, open it up and put it
in a cup of vodka. Shake it once a day and after a week you have amazing vanilla extract, better
than you buy in the stores

So, one bean will flavor 8 ounces of extract? Last time I bought a pint from Penzy's, it was
something like $65, while beans go for around $2 apiece. That means they sold me 2 beans for the
price of thirty?

I think that this is way too little bean for the amount of alcohol, but I haven't tried it, and
apparently you have....

Mike Beede

Cooks Illustrated tried it a few years ago, and much to their surprise, the homemade extract
sucked and was more expensive to make that commercial vanilla extract.

Bob

Um time to read that again Bob. Cooks Illustrated tried it and said the homemade was way better than
anything commercial. Thats why I tried it

--
Michael Ellis, IAPP
Privacy Manager
Date.com
Phone 877-224-DATE x2620

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I just returned from Grenda and myself purchased a bottle exactly as you are describing. I suppose when you are back in the clean ol' US, the looks of the bottle may make it seem dangerous. But when you are in the caribbean and see the farm and farmer himself selling the vanilla at a roadside stand, it feels much more kosher. Things are just different in the caribbean. The bottle we purchased came directly from this man's 1/2 acre jungle farm that he and his family have worked for 3 generations. The looks of the label may make me giggle a bit when I look at it, but I feel mostly comfortable with the product (which yes, I've already used.) By the way, it is FANTASTIC. Best vanilla ever tasted. I would definitely refrigerate, however, because it does not have alcohol. He said "alcohol does NOT belong in Vanilla!)
 
With that said, I'm sure native Grenadians have stomaches used to handling more than we Americans. I only use it in small quantities at a time. Of course you must be aware there are always risks with such things. Moderation with everything, right? But let me tell you, there's no other place you can get vanilla like this.