Walking Englishman

Can anyone advise me on something. A company has just hijacked my 'The
Walking Englishman' title and seem to be profiteering on the
reputation of my free site. See http://www.walkingenglishman.co.uk/index.html

What can I do. I have threatened them but so far have got no reply.
Any advice?

Thanks,
The Original Walking Englishman

On Thu, 12 Apr 2007 17:11:09 GMT,

Bryan Hall said:

"badgerbrockhurst" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Can anyone advise me on something. A company has just hijacked my 'The
Walking Englishman' title and seem to be profiteering on the
reputation of my free site. See
http://www.walkingenglishman.co.uk/index.html

What can I do. I have threatened them but so far have got no reply.
Any advice?

whats your original site name?

www.walkingenglishman.com and it is a much better site than the
imposter in that it has descriptions of actual walks on it.

--
Andy Leighton => [email hidden]
"The Lord is my shepherd, but we still lost the sheep dog trials"
- Robert Rankin, _They Came And Ate Us_

Ysgrifennodd "Andy Leighton" <[email hidden]> mewn neges
newyddion:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

On Thu, 12 Apr 2007 17:11:09 GMT,

Bryan Hall said:

"badgerbrockhurst" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Can anyone advise me on something. A company has just hijacked my 'The
Walking Englishman' title and seem to be profiteering on the
reputation of my free site. See
http://www.walkingenglishman.co.uk/index.html

What can I do. I have threatened them but so far have got no reply.
Any advice?

whats your original site name?

www.walkingenglishman.com and it is a much better site than the
imposter in that it has descriptions of actual walks on it.

This is the site i've heard of (the .com one). But never came across the
..co.uk site before.

You've registered your domain name 4 years ahead of these impostors, but i
wonder if anyone else out there can clarify what the law states on
Trademarks as the impostors are 'trademarking' your website name. I'm sure
they cannot do that, i thought it was possibly illegal to place TM alongside
something that isn't a registered trademark? Someone might clarify?

Anyway, if anyone wants to visit www.who.is they can find out exactly who
the 'impostor' is. It even gives you their postal address (the name of
anyone who's registered a domain is there ONLY if they've agreed to it -
mine is in there too) and that they're registered as Maybank Associates.
Makes interesting reading.

Has to be said it's a cheap shot, and i think i'd be very annoyed if someone
pulled the same trick with my website (as would others with walking sites
who's names are known).

Best of luck sorting this out.

T Dave R

Andy Leighton said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

What can I do. I have threatened them but so far have got no reply.
Any advice?

whats your original site name?

www.walkingenglishman.com and it is a much better site than the
imposter in that it has descriptions of actual walks on it.

Maybe, but (at least for me) my browser times-out waiting for it to
load. At least 'The Imposter' site works!

Jim Ford

"T Dave R" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Ysgrifennodd "Andy Leighton" <[email hidden]> mewn neges
newyddion:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

On Thu, 12 Apr 2007 17:11:09 GMT,

Bryan Hall said:

"badgerbrockhurst" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
> Can anyone advise me on something. A company has just hijacked my 'The
> Walking Englishman' title and seem to be profiteering on the
> reputation of my free site. See
> http://www.walkingenglishman.co.uk/index.html
>
> What can I do. I have threatened them but so far have got no reply.
> Any advice?

whats your original site name?

www.walkingenglishman.com and it is a much better site than the
imposter in that it has descriptions of actual walks on it.

This is the site i've heard of (the .com one). But never came across the
.co.uk site before.

You've registered your domain name 4 years ahead of these impostors, but i
wonder if anyone else out there can clarify what the law states on
Trademarks as the impostors are 'trademarking' your website name. I'm sure
they cannot do that, i thought it was possibly illegal to place TM
alongside something that isn't a registered trademark? Someone might
clarify?

Anyway, if anyone wants to visit www.who.is they can find out exactly who
the 'impostor' is. It even gives you their postal address (the name of
anyone who's registered a domain is there ONLY if they've agreed to it -
mine is in there too) and that they're registered as Maybank Associates.
Makes interesting reading.

Has to be said it's a cheap shot, and i think i'd be very annoyed if
someone pulled the same trick with my website (as would others with
walking sites who's names are known).

Best of luck sorting this out.

Trademark? I very much doubt that it is registered. Therefore not much can
be done about it unless you have company as large as Microsoft.
--
Craven and Pendle Birds:
Bird watching in and around Craven & Pendle.
North Yorkshire and East Lancashire.
http://craven-and-pendle-birding.org/

Andy Leighton said:

On Thu, 12 Apr 2007 17:11:09 GMT,

Bryan Hall said:

"badgerbrockhurst" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Can anyone advise me on something. A company has just hijacked my 'The
Walking Englishman' title and seem to be profiteering on the
reputation of my free site. See
http://www.walkingenglishman.co.uk/index.html

What can I do. I have threatened them but so far have got no reply.
Any advice?

whats your original site name?

www.walkingenglishman.com and it is a much better site than the
imposter in that it has descriptions of actual walks on it.

Unless "walkingenglishman" is a registered trade mark there is nothing
to stop people registering whatever they want! So you have a site on
..com and they have a .co.uk site, nothing wrong there.

ttfn
Jane

Jane said:

Unless "walkingenglishman" is a registered trade mark there is nothing
to stop people registering whatever they want! So you have a site on
.com and they have a .co.uk site, nothing wrong there.

I think Jane is probably right. But take a look at these pages Mike:
http://www.ivanhoffman.com/domain.html
http://www.bitlaw.com/internet/domain.html

Unless you're actually running a business under that name, and it's
therefore your trademark, I doubt you can do much about it. But read the
above pages carefully. The second one says at the end:

"A trademark owner can show that a domain name was registered and used in
bad faith in a variety of ways, including by showing that the domain name
owner:
a.. is attempting to attract users to a web site for commercial gain by
creating a likelihood of confusion with the trademark owner's trademark."
This seems to be applicable, since the site has obviously been designed for
commercial gain (a "made for Adsense" site). He seems to be using the
established popularity of your site name to attract visitors so that they'll
click on the ads to earn him money (there's not much else to do on that
site, it's crammed full of ads but has very little content).

Paul
--
http://www.wilderness-wales.co.uk

T Dave R said:

You've registered your domain name 4 years ahead of these impostors,
but i wonder if anyone else out there can clarify what the law states
on Trademarks as the impostors are 'trademarking' your website name.
I'm sure they cannot do that, i thought it was possibly illegal to
place TM alongside something that isn't a registered trademark?

Maybe. Even if Mike hasn't trademarked his site, it has been established for
some time, so that may give him a justifiable claim to the trademark.

See the page I linked to in my other post:
http://www.bitlaw.com/internet/domain.html

Which says:
"Is the domain name holder attempting to divert consumers from the trademark
owner's web site in a confusing way, either for commercial gain or in an
attempt to tarnish or disparage the trademark mark?"

Paul
--
http://www.wilderness-wales.co.uk

Ysgrifennodd "Paul Saunders" <[email hidden]> mewn neges
newyddion:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

T Dave R said:

You've registered your domain name 4 years ahead of these impostors,
but i wonder if anyone else out there can clarify what the law states
on Trademarks as the impostors are 'trademarking' your website name.
I'm sure they cannot do that, i thought it was possibly illegal to
place TM alongside something that isn't a registered trademark?

Maybe. Even if Mike hasn't trademarked his site, it has been established
for some time, so that may give him a justifiable claim to the trademark.

See the page I linked to in my other post:
http://www.bitlaw.com/internet/domain.html

Which says:
"Is the domain name holder attempting to divert consumers from the
trademark owner's web site in a confusing way, either for commercial gain
or in an attempt to tarnish or disparage the trademark mark?"

Paul
--
http://www.wilderness-wales.co.uk

Sorry, i need to clarify what i meant.

The impostor's site has a trademark, for whatever reason.

Not the original (AFAIK) Walking Englishman.

T Dave R

"T Dave R" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Ysgrifennodd "Paul Saunders" <[email hidden]> mewn neges
newyddion:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

T Dave R said:

You've registered your domain name 4 years ahead of these impostors,
but i wonder if anyone else out there can clarify what the law states
on Trademarks as the impostors are 'trademarking' your website name.
I'm sure they cannot do that, i thought it was possibly illegal to
place TM alongside something that isn't a registered trademark?

Maybe. Even if Mike hasn't trademarked his site, it has been established
for some time, so that may give him a justifiable claim to the trademark.

See the page I linked to in my other post:
http://www.bitlaw.com/internet/domain.html

Which says:
"Is the domain name holder attempting to divert consumers from the
trademark owner's web site in a confusing way, either for commercial gain
or in an attempt to tarnish or disparage the trademark mark?"

Paul
--
http://www.wilderness-wales.co.uk

Sorry, i need to clarify what i meant.

The impostor's site has a trademark, for whatever reason.

Not the original (AFAIK) Walking Englishman.

Well if he has a trademark (legitimate) you have no comeback IMO. I've taken
a look and can't see one! Probably paranoia is setting in;-)

For example I could register:

http://www.wilderness-wales. with com, org, biz on the end. Paul could not
legally stop me using those web addresses. The only possible illegality is
if they are purporting to represent who they aren't. This is not the case,
I'm afraid.
--
Craven and Pendle Birds:
Bird watching in and around Craven & Pendle.
North Yorkshire and East Lancashire.
http://craven-and-pendle-birding.org/

"C R Fishwick" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"T Dave R" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Ysgrifennodd "Paul Saunders" <[email hidden]> mewn neges
newyddion:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

T Dave R wrote:

> You've registered your domain name 4 years ahead of these impostors,
> but i wonder if anyone else out there can clarify what the law states
> on Trademarks as the impostors are 'trademarking' your website name.
> I'm sure they cannot do that, i thought it was possibly illegal to
> place TM alongside something that isn't a registered trademark?

Maybe. Even if Mike hasn't trademarked his site, it has been established
for some time, so that may give him a justifiable claim to the
trademark.

See the page I linked to in my other post:
http://www.bitlaw.com/internet/domain.html

Which says:
"Is the domain name holder attempting to divert consumers from the
trademark owner's web site in a confusing way, either for commercial
gain or in an attempt to tarnish or disparage the trademark mark?"

Paul
--
http://www.wilderness-wales.co.uk

Sorry, i need to clarify what i meant.

The impostor's site has a trademark, for whatever reason.

Not the original (AFAIK) Walking Englishman.

Well if he has a trademark (legitimate) you have no comeback IMO. I've
taken a look and can't see one! Probably paranoia is setting in;-)

For example I could register:

http://www.wilderness-wales. with com, org, biz on the end. Paul could not
legally stop me using those web addresses. The only possible illegality is
if they are purporting to represent who they aren't. This is not the case,
I'm afraid.

Sorry for replying to my own post! The site has actually a copyright sign
embellished! Quite different to a trademark sign though!
--
Craven and Pendle Birds:
Bird watching in and around Craven & Pendle.
North Yorkshire and East Lancashire.
http://craven-and-pendle-birding.org/

"Jane" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Andy Leighton said:

Bryan Hall said:

"badgerbrockhurst" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
> Can anyone advise me on something. A company has just hijacked my 'The
> Walking Englishman' title and seem to be profiteering on the
> reputation of my free site. See
> http://www.walkingenglishman.co.uk/index.html
>
> What can I do. I have threatened them but so far have got no reply.
> Any advice?
whats your original site name?

www.walkingenglishman.com and it is a much better site than the
imposter in that it has descriptions of actual walks on it.

Unless "walkingenglishman" is a registered trade mark there is nothing to
stop people registering whatever they want! So you have a site on .com and
they have a .co.uk site, nothing wrong there.

ttfn

Quite correct;-) Nothing to stop them at all! Although big business (and I
mean BIG) try to make sure they register ALL web addresses ending in ad
infinitum at the outset;-) Although it's cost a few companies in the early
days of the Internet a few bob;-)
--
Craven and Pendle Birds:
Bird watching in and around Craven & Pendle.
North Yorkshire and East Lancashire.
http://craven-and-pendle-birding.org/

T Dave R said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

You've registered your domain name 4 years ahead of these impostors,
but i wonder if anyone else out there can clarify what the law
states on Trademarks as the impostors are 'trademarking' your
website name. I'm sure they cannot do that, i thought it was
possibly illegal to place TM alongside something that isn't a
registered trademark?

Maybe. Even if Mike hasn't trademarked his site, it has been
established for some time, so that may give him a justifiable claim
to the trademark.

Quoted message said:

Sorry, i need to clarify what i meant.

The impostor's site has a trademark, for whatever reason.

Not the original (AFAIK) Walking Englishman.

Yes I know that. What I was getting at was that Mike may have a justifiable
claim to the trademark, since his site is well established. But since he's
not actually "trading" under that name, that may not apply.

The big I quoted still seems applice, if you interpret "the trademark owner"
to be the one with the original website.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

"Is the domain name holder attempting to divert consumers from the
trademark owner's web site in a confusing way, either for commercial
gain or in an attempt to tarnish or disparage the trademark mark?"

Paul
--
http://www.wilderness-wales.co.uk

"Paul Saunders" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

T Dave R said:

Quoted message said:

> You've registered your domain name 4 years ahead of these impostors,
> but i wonder if anyone else out there can clarify what the law
> states on Trademarks as the impostors are 'trademarking' your
> website name. I'm sure they cannot do that, i thought it was
> possibly illegal to place TM alongside something that isn't a
> registered trademark?

Maybe. Even if Mike hasn't trademarked his site, it has been
established for some time, so that may give him a justifiable claim
to the trademark.

Quoted message said:

Sorry, i need to clarify what i meant.

The impostor's site has a trademark, for whatever reason.

Not the original (AFAIK) Walking Englishman.

Yes I know that. What I was getting at was that Mike may have a
justifiable claim to the trademark, since his site is well established.
But since he's not actually "trading" under that name, that may not apply.

No he has not! Trademarks aren't actually related to Web addresses UNTIL or
BEFORE they have been registered as a trademark! Such as Argos, Microsoft et
al.

Quoted message said:

The big I quoted still seems applice, if you interpret "the trademark
owner" to be the one with the original website.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

"Is the domain name holder attempting to divert consumers from the
trademark owner's web site in a confusing way, either for commercial
gain or in an attempt to tarnish or disparage the trademark mark?"

No not at all! I think the original poster will have to live with the fact
that other Web addresses are rather similar;-) Unless he purchases the rest
ending in .......

--
Craven and Pendle Birds:
Bird watching in and around Craven & Pendle.
North Yorkshire and East Lancashire.
http://craven-and-pendle-birding.org/

C R Fishwick said:

Quoted message said:

The impostor's site has a trademark, for whatever reason.

Well if he has a trademark (legitimate) you have no comeback IMO.
I've taken a look and can't see one! Probably paranoia is setting
in;-)

It says TM after the title.

Quoted message said:

For example I could register:

http://www.wilderness-wales. with com, org, biz on the end. Paul
could not legally stop me using those web addresses.

I've wondered about this. Unlike Mike, I am actually trading under that
name, so doesn't that literally make it my "trade-mark"?

It would be quite expensive to buy every possible variation of the domain
name, including versions without the hyphen.

Quoted message said:

The only
possible illegality is if they are purporting to represent who they
aren't. This is not the case, I'm afraid.

No, there's more to it than that, if you read the page I linked to.

"Is the domain name holder attempting to divert consumers from the trademark
owner's web site in a confusing way, either for commercial gain or in an
attempt to tarnish or disparage the trademark mark?"
http://www.bitlaw.com/internet/domain.html

By using the same name, that looks to me like an attempt to divert consumers
from the original website in a confusing way. And he's obviously doing it
for commercial gain since the site is crammed full of adverts. So the above
would seem to apply.

The real issue seems to be whether Mike can justifiably claim to own the
name as a trademark, except that he's not actually trading with it, so
arguably the new site isn't taking any business away from him.

Paul
--
http://www.wilderness-wales.co.uk

Paul Saunders said:

It says TM after the title.

I've wondered about this. Unlike Mike, I am actually trading under that
name, so doesn't that literally make it my "trade-mark"?

It would be quite expensive to buy every possible variation of the domain
name, including versions without the hyphen.

TM does not mean a great deal - just that the name is a trade mark, ie,
the mark (name) under which somebody trades. For them to take any
action against an infringer, they would have to prove 'passing off' or
actively profiting from the incorrect assertion that the business is
associated with them.

Registered trademark (the R in a circle) is more difficult and expensive
to get (and other businesses have the right to challenge the
registration), but the remedies for infringement are more
straightforward and more severe. There is no suggestion in this case
that either party has a registered trademark.

Nick

http://craven-and-pendle-birding.org/
"Paul Saunders" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

C R Fishwick said:

Quoted message said:

The impostor's site has a trademark, for whatever reason.

Well if he has a trademark (legitimate) you have no comeback IMO.
I've taken a look and can't see one! Probably paranoia is setting
in;-)

It says TM after the title.

Quoted message said:

For example I could register:

http://www.wilderness-wales. with com, org, biz on the end. Paul
could not legally stop me using those web addresses.

I've wondered about this. Unlike Mike, I am actually trading under that
name, so doesn't that literally make it my "trade-mark"?

No! Why would you think that? Unless you have registered it as a trademark!

Quoted message said:

It would be quite expensive to buy every possible variation of the domain
name, including versions without the hyphen.

Not really;-) Ask Microsoft;-) The probelm is you need money;-) I'm, quite
prepared to register your part of your domain name wilderness-wales without
any repurcussions;-) I might be inclined to sell it to you though;-)

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

The only
possible illegality is if they are purporting to represent who they
aren't. This is not the case, I'm afraid.

No, there's more to it than that, if you read the page I linked to.

Try in a court of law then!

Quoted message said:

"Is the domain name holder attempting to divert consumers from the
trademark owner's web site in a confusing way, either for commercial gain
or in an attempt to tarnish or disparage the trademark mark?"
http://www.bitlaw.com/internet/domain.html

By using the same name, that looks to me like an attempt to divert
consumers from the original website in a confusing way. And he's obviously
doing it for commercial gain since the site is crammed full of adverts. So
the above would seem to apply.

The real issue seems to be whether Mike can justifiably claim to own the
name as a trademark, except that he's not actually trading with it, so
arguably the new site isn't taking any business away from him.

Quoted message said:

http://www.wilderness-wales.co.uk

The only thing you own is as above the domain! Nothing else unless you are
super-rich, I'm afraid.

CRF

"Paul Saunders" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

C R Fishwick said:

Quoted message said:

The impostor's site has a trademark, for whatever reason.

Well if he has a trademark (legitimate) you have no comeback IMO.
I've taken a look and can't see one! Probably paranoia is setting
in;-)

It says TM after the title.

Quoted message said:

For example I could register:

http://www.wilderness-wales. with com, org, biz on the end. Paul
could not legally stop me using those web addresses.

I've wondered about this. Unlike Mike, I am actually trading under that
name, so doesn't that literally make it my "trade-mark"?

Sorry again replying! No it does not represent a Trademark. Why would it?
You need to register a trademark! And then if someone purports to use it,
sue them but expect a rather large solicitors bill if you lose.

BTW

Your website does not seem to be a trading concern! Although .co.uk suggests
it is;-)

--
Craven and Pendle Birds:
Bird watching in and around Craven & Pendle.
North Yorkshire and East Lancashire.
http://craven-and-pendle-birding.org/

On Thu, 12 Apr 2007 19:11:33 +0100, T Dave R wrote...

Quoted message said:

You've registered your domain name 4 years ahead of these impostors, but i
wonder if anyone else out there can clarify what the law states on
Trademarks as the impostors are 'trademarking' your website name. I'm sure
they cannot do that, i thought it was possibly illegal to place TM alongside
something that isn't a registered trademark? Someone might clarify?

Trade marks can be registered or just used on an unregistered basis.
Registration of a trade mark gives the owner stronger legal rights
against other people.

Anyone can claim they have a trade mark, but it's illegal to claim that
it's registered if it isn't.

So it's legal to add the initials 'TM'. But you can only say
'registered TM' or 'RTM' or use the ® sign (R in a circle) if in fact
the trade mark is registered.

--
Tim Jackson
[email hidden]
(Change '.invalid' to '.com' to reply direct)