walmart schwinn S30 bike

Quoted message said:

can anybody explain what the main differences are between
the walmart schwinn s30 (link below) and say giant warp ds2
shown in the other link with respect to the huge price
difference? Is it the case that now low end stores are
carrying comparable bikes that the LBSs sell, for less?

walmart.comproduct.gspOpen ↗
015&cat=5304&type=5&dept=4125&path=0%3A4125%3A4178%3A4180%-
3A4183%3A5304

bikeway.comitemdetails.cfmOpen ↗
sort=Price

We wont get into the frame here.

Shocks. RST 191 compared to RockShox Pilot XC

Definite step up in components. 7speed for Schwinn, 8
for Giant,

Bottom line is that the Schwinn might be a reasonable bike
at the price, but you WILL have to pay to have it assembled
(not a good idea to have Wally's guys do it), etc.

At this price level, dual suspension is just a joke anyway.
Pick up a decent front suspension only bike at a bike shop.
You will be happy you did.

I wouldn't put my kid (or myself or a friend) on a
Walmart bike.

Walmart's tactic is pressuring suppliers to drive the cost
down, regardless of all other measures. The only goal is
that the bike travels past the cash register.

Expect the absolute crummiest bike which looks OK in the
store, and nothing more.

JeffK said:

I wouldn't put my kid (or myself or a friend) on a
Walmart bike.

Walmart's tactic is pressuring suppliers to drive the cost
down, regardless of all other measures. The only goal is
that the bike travels past the cash register.

Expect the absolute crummiest bike which looks OK in the
store, and nothing more.

Dear Jeff,

As of yesterday, my Fury RoadMaster has delivered eighty 4-
mile rides in as many days, averaging 18.84 mph and a
maximum of 27.5 mph on the flats with a fine tail wind
yesterday.

The ride includes eight speed humps that I hit at or over
20 mph, but the 15-speed Fury RoadMaster has yet to resent
this abuse, even though I weigh a bit over 190 pounds, more
than the typical member of the target market of gentlemen
aged 10-17.

So far, it's hard to argue that I got anything but a bargain
for my $57.71, including tax.

Cheers,

Carl Fogel

JeffK said:

I wouldn't put my kid (or myself or a friend) on a Walmart
bike. Walmart's tactic is pressuring suppliers to drive
the cost down, regardless of all other measures. The only
goal is that the bike travels past the cash register.
Expect the absolute crummiest bike which looks OK in the
store, and nothing more.

I was driving through a sloppy Chicago winter with a
Japanese woman on her first visit here, She commented that
America had so many rusty dented ugly decrepit cars compared
to Japan. I pointed out that our secondary markets are quite
active and efficient such that a woman of her station (
typesetter by day, waitress in the evening) would in USA
almost certainly own a car. She was astounded that such a
thing could be possible, car ownership in Japan being far
beyond her means.

I wouldn't own one of those bikes either, nor have I ever
stepped inside a WalMart (Having read Bill Quinn's book).
But they serve some function. When people stop buying them,
WalMart will use the floor space for something else.

Our end of the market simply cannot deliver a new
vehicle for $69.95. As Mr Fogel can attest, they may be
rough but they are rideable. WalMart has proved there is
a market for them.

--
Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org Open every day since 1
April, 1971

On Sun, 23 May 2004 14:37:17 -0400, bicyclette <[email hidden]> may

have said:

can anybody explain what the main differences are between
the walmart schwinn s30 (link below) and say giant warp ds2
shown in the other link with respect to the huge price
difference? Is it the case that now low end stores are
carrying comparable bikes that the LBSs sell, for less?

walmart.comproduct.gspOpen ↗
015&cat=5304&type=5&dept=4125&path=0%3A4125%3A4178%3A4180%-
3A4183%3A5304

bikeway.comitemdetails.cfmOpen ↗
sort=Price

The Schwinn has a featureless front fork and an essentially
undamped rear shock. I'd expect a mix os low-bid components
in the drivetrain which will be functional but not optimal;
note that it specifies that the shifters are Shimano, and
that the rear der is Shimano's low-level Altus unit, but
nothing is said about the chain, cranks, BB or chainrings.
Note also that the rear cluster is a freewheel, not a
cassette; the inherently more flxible rear axle of a
freewheel comes whith that economization. The Giant's
characterisitics are more exemplary of a serious bike
maker's above-entry-level unit, with Deore rear der, Alivio
front der, RockShox fork, etc. Every component I could see
for which a spec is given is a better item on the Giant than
on the S30, although I might personally prefer the S30's
trigger shifters if the Giant is using gripshifts.

Bottom line: From what I can see, both are priced according
to their value. Whether any specific individual purchaser
needs the added value of the Giant or not is a matter for
the purchaser to consider. Certainly both units can be
ridden. How long they will last and how well they will
perform is a matter which, once again, must be viewed in
light of the rider's real needs. For the casual user with no
performance goals, the S30 may very well be adequate, or it
may not. This is the reason why there are so many choices in
the marketplace; there are many different levels of rider,
with wildly disparate needs. There are certainly plenty of
buyers for whom the S30 is a perfectly good choice. Whether
you're one of them is a matter that I can't decide for you.

--
My email address is antispammed; pull WEEDS if replying via
e-mail. Typoes are not a bug, they're a feature. Words
processed in a facility that contains nuts.

Great post. You just left out one thing: "You get what you
pay for." The OP is trying to convince himself that the
cheap bike is the same as the better built one and the ONLY
difference is Wal-Mart's genius in marketing.

Sorry. Taint so.

Pat in TX

bicyclette said:

can anybody explain what the main differences are between
the walmart schwinn s30 (link below) and say giant warp ds2
shown in the other link with respect to the huge price
difference? Is it the case that now low end stores are
carrying comparable bikes that the LBSs sell, for less?

walmart.comproduct.gspOpen ↗
015&cat=5304&type=5&dept=4125&path=0%3A4125%3A4178%3A4180%-
3A4183%3A5304

bikeway.comitemdetails.cfmOpen ↗
sort=Price

My concern would be how much is it going to cost to
maintain? If you are planning on putting a lot of miles on
the bike and cannot do the maintenance yourself it might end
up costing you more in the long run.

Less expensive components often do not hold their
adjustments as well. What kinds of bills are you likely to
have to pay for adjustments? The technicians at your LBS
have more tools and experience setting up bikes and will
catch things like loose bottom brackets or badly built
wheels before the bike goes out the door.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Walmart's tactic is pressuring suppliers to drive the
cost down,

regardless

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

of all other measures. The only goal is that the bike
travels past the

cash

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

register.

Quoted message said:

Dear Jeff,

As of yesterday, my Fury RoadMaster has delivered eighty
4-mile rides in as many days, averaging 18.84 mph and a
maximum of 27.5 mph on the flats with a fine tail wind
yesterday.

The ride includes eight speed humps that I hit at or over
20 mph, but the 15-speed Fury RoadMaster has yet to resent
this abuse, even though I weigh a bit over 190 pounds,
more than the typical member of the target market of
gentlemen aged 10-17.

So far, it's hard to argue that I got anything but a
bargain for my $57.71, including tax.

This is a cycling newsgroup, what are you talking about?

Pat said:

Great post. You just left out one thing: "You get what you
pay for." The OP is trying to convince himself that the
cheap bike is the same as the better built one and the
ONLY difference is Wal-Mart's genius in marketing.

Sorry. Taint so.

Pat in TX

I wasn't really trying to convince myself either way. I was
sure most of you experienced guys would see the differences
right away. Thanks for all the feedback. Actually I have
been wondering about the larger question of the impact of
China/Walmart on the LBS in the broader sense, but that is a
subject that has been probably hammered to death already.

Callistus Valerius said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Walmart's tactic is pressuring suppliers to drive the
cost down,

regardless

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

of all other measures. The only goal is that the bike
travels past the

cash

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

register.

Quoted message said:

Dear Jeff,

As of yesterday, my Fury RoadMaster has delivered eighty
4-mile rides in as many days, averaging 18.84 mph and a
maximum of 27.5 mph on the flats with a fine tail wind
yesterday.

The ride includes eight speed humps that I hit at or over
20 mph, but the 15-speed Fury RoadMaster has yet to
resent this abuse, even though I weigh a bit over 190
pounds, more than the typical member of the target market
of gentlemen aged 10-17.

So far, it's hard to argue that I got anything but a
bargain for my $57.71, including tax.

This is a cycling newsgroup, what are you talking
about?

Dear Ballistics Precarious,

William the Conqueror, whose cause was favoured by the pope,
was soon submitted to by the English, who wanted leaders,
and had been of late much accustomed to usurpation and
conquest. Edwin and Morcar, the earls of Mercia and
Northumbria, declared for him: and even Stigand, the
patriotic archbishop of Canterbury, found it advisable to go
with Edgar Atheling to meet William and offer him the crown.
William's conduct at first was moderate. But the insolence
of his Normans--

How are you getting on now, my dear?

C.L. Dodson

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

This is a cycling newsgroup, what are you talking
about?

Dear Ballistics Precarious,

William the Conqueror, whose cause was favoured by the
pope, was soon submitted to by the English, who wanted
leaders, and had been of late much accustomed to
usurpation and conquest. Edwin and Morcar, the earls of
Mercia and Northumbria, declared for him: and even
Stigand, the patriotic archbishop of Canterbury, found it
advisable to go with Edgar Atheling to meet William and
offer him the crown. William's conduct at first was
moderate. But the insolence of his Normans--

How are you getting on now, my dear?

C.L. Dodson

That English lit majors prefer to ride Walmart bikes?

Callistus Valerius said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

This is a cycling newsgroup, what are you talking
about?

Dear Ballistics Precarious,

William the Conqueror, whose cause was favoured by the
pope, was soon submitted to by the English, who wanted
leaders, and had been of late much accustomed to
usurpation and conquest. Edwin and Morcar, the earls of
Mercia and Northumbria, declared for him: and even
Stigand, the patriotic archbishop of Canterbury, found it
advisable to go with Edgar Atheling to meet William and
offer him the crown. William's conduct at first was
moderate. But the insolence of his Normans--

How are you getting on now, my dear?

C.L. Dodson

That English lit majors prefer to ride Walmart bikes?

Dear Logistics Gregarious,

Or perhaps that mathematics professors prefer boneshakers?

libserv3.princeton.edu00000014.Open ↗
htm

Lewis Carroll

Quoted message said:

Callistus Valerius said:

Quoted message said:

>
> This is a cycling newsgroup, what are you talking
> about?
>

Dear Ballistics Precarious,

William the Conqueror, whose cause was favoured by the
pope, was soon submitted to by the English, who wanted
leaders, and had been of late much accustomed to
usurpation and conquest. Edwin and Morcar, the earls of
Mercia and Northumbria, declared for him: and even
Stigand, the patriotic archbishop of Canterbury, found
it advisable to go with Edgar Atheling to meet William
and offer him the crown. William's conduct at first was
moderate. But the insolence of his Normans--

How are you getting on now, my dear?

C.L. Dodson

That English lit majors prefer to ride Walmart bikes?

Dear Logistics Gregarious,

Or perhaps that mathematics professors prefer boneshakers?

libserv3.princeton.edu000Open ↗
00014.htm

Lewis Carroll

Oh yeah?

On Sun, 23 May 2004 21:18:28 -0400, bicyclette <[email hidden]> may

have said:

Pat said:

Great post. You just left out one thing: "You get what
you pay for." The OP is trying to convince himself that
the cheap bike is the same as the better built one and
the ONLY difference is Wal-Mart's genius in marketing.

Sorry. Taint so.

Pat in TX

I wasn't really trying to convince myself either way. I was
sure most of you experienced guys would see the differences
right away. Thanks for all the feedback. Actually I have
been wondering about the larger question of the impact of
China/Walmart on the LBS in the broader sense, but that is
a subject that has been probably hammered to death already.

Reader's Disgust Condensed Version:

The LBS has been impacted by the Wal-Mart bikes in these
ways at a minimum:

- First-time and low-requirenments bike buyers seldom can
tell the difference in quality between Wal-Mart's bikes
and those at the LBS, and so they have an inaccurate
perception that the bikes at the LBS are more expensive
without being better. This influences them to stay away
from the LBS later.

- People who buy a crummy or ill-fitting bike at Wal-Mart
and find that they don't like to ride it are unlikely to
realize that they could have had a better one at the LBS;
instead, they simply don't ride.

- The concentration of low-end bike purchasing at the Wal-
Mart type of stores has caused the mass-production
manufacturers to reduce the number of midrange models
they offer due to the fact that Wal-Mart carries no
midrange or high-end units at all...and it is apparent
that many *potential* midrange purchase customers are
going to the big retailers like Oshman's, REI, and the
like instead of the LBS...and those sporting goods stores
don't want an extensive line of models, and often don't
want anything with drop bars at all.

Add to that the existence of bike specialty store chains
like Cycle Spectrum, where the high-profit but factually
pedestrian Motobecane line is featured, and the true LBS is
hard pressed to make a profit these days.

--
My email address is antispammed; pull WEEDS if replying via
e-mail. Typoes are not a bug, they're a feature. Words
processed in a facility that contains nuts.

"A Muzi" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]... <snip>

Quoted message said:

I wouldn't own one of those bikes either, nor have I ever
stepped inside a WalMart (Having read Bill Quinn's book).
But they serve some function. When people stop buying
them, WalMart will use the floor space for something else.

Our end of the market simply cannot deliver a new vehicle
for $69.95. As Mr Fogel can attest, they may be rough but
they are rideable. WalMart has proved there is a market
for them.

There are plenty of good, decent, used bikes for free or
nearly so ... we all know that. However, you bring up a good
point about Wal Mart. People need affordable bikes, which is
why I suspect Wal Mart is behind the whole "send perfectly
good used bike to needy people in Africa and get them out of
the USA" scam (c:

C.Q.C.

On Sun, 23 May 2004 23:47:22 GMT, "Callistus Valerius"

may have said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Walmart's tactic is pressuring suppliers to drive the
cost down,

regardless

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

of all other measures. The only goal is that the bike
travels past the

cash

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

register.

Quoted message said:

Dear Jeff,

As of yesterday, my Fury RoadMaster has delivered eighty
4-mile rides in as many days, averaging 18.84 mph and a
maximum of 27.5 mph on the flats with a fine tail wind
yesterday.

The ride includes eight speed humps that I hit at or over
20 mph, but the 15-speed Fury RoadMaster has yet to
resent this abuse, even though I weigh a bit over 190
pounds, more than the typical member of the target market
of gentlemen aged 10-17.

So far, it's hard to argue that I got anything but a
bargain for my $57.71, including tax.

This is a cycling newsgroup, what are you talking
about?

He's talking about the current status of his long-term ride
test of a Mall-Wart el cheapo bike. His point is "It ain't
broke yet."

--
My email address is antispammed; pull WEEDS if replying via
e-mail. Typoes are not a bug, they're a feature. Words
processed in a facility that contains nuts.

On Mon, 24 May 2004 03:42:19 GMT, Dan Brussee <[email hidden]> may

have said:

Quoted message said:

Callistus Valerius said:

> > This is a cycling newsgroup, what are you talking
> > about?
>
> Dear Ballistics Precarious,
>
> William the Conqueror, whose cause was favoured by the
> pope, was soon submitted to by the English, who wanted
> leaders, and had been of late much accustomed to
> usurpation and conquest. Edwin and Morcar, the earls of
> Mercia and Northumbria, declared for him: and even
> Stigand, the patriotic archbishop of Canterbury, found
> it advisable to go with Edgar Atheling to meet William
> and offer him the crown. William's conduct at first was
> moderate. But the insolence of his Normans--
>
> How are you getting on now, my dear?
>
> C.L. Dodson

That English lit majors prefer to ride Walmart bikes?

Dear Logistics Gregarious,

Or perhaps that mathematics professors prefer boneshakers?

libserv3.princeton.edu0000Open ↗
0014.htm

Lewis Carroll

Oh yeah?

And where would they get one today, short of applying for a
research grant to allow them to build one?

--
My email address is antispammed; pull WEEDS if replying via
e-mail. Typoes are not a bug, they're a feature. Words
processed in a facility that contains nuts.

One of my friends had that bike, put over 1000 miles on it.
Its not a horrible bike, but if you plan to do anything like
jump or anything. It wont hold up. Also, if you plan to ride
street, the bobbing suspenson will get old really fast.
Otheriwise it isnt oo bad of a bike. But I would suggest
buying a new hardtail, or a used good bike.

[email hidden] wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

[snip adventures with bike-shaped toys]

Quoted message said:

So far, it's hard to argue that I got anything but a
bargain for my $57.71, including tax.

Mr. Fogel:

During one of my regular drop-offs at Goodwill, I noticed
two bicyles
- one a townie cruiser, and the other a KHS road bike. The
townie was $15.00, and looked as though it could use a
rear tube and some cleaning/lubing. Another $10.00, for
the extravagant.

The KHS road bike was much more interesting. For $10.00, the
wheels were true, and free-spinning, plus they were holding
air (finger and opposed thumb squeeze test.) The drivetrain
was Suntour, and looked in need of clean/lube as well, but
no rust and everything looked in decent shape. The stem
shifters looked a little worn, but I didn't test their
functionality. The brakes had plenty of pad left, and were
in good adjustment. They also worked reasonably, but a
little clean/lube would not have been out of place.

I would guess that a little bit of spray solvent and some
motor oil would be all that would need to be purchased to
make this thing a real, functional piece of transportation.
In addition, the Fury would have a tough time keeping up
with a real road bike, even if you installed road slicks on
the Fury. Call it $20.00, and some time at the local library
printing Mr. Brown's helpful pages. In addition, I would
guess that this KHS road bike would stand the test of time
better than the Fury.

No, the Fury was no bargain at $60.00, even though it might
transport you 1000 miles, or even more. In fact, I'll
further surmise that the only reason the Fury is not holding
down the garage floor is that you are trying to prove a
point. Here's the point: when uninformed people buy junk at
Sam Walton's joint, they might actually get some use out of
that junk, and may even continue using it for well past it's
nominal design lifetime.

But more likely, the junk will end up where all junk ends up
- my basement, errr, the landfill.
--
Robert F. Jones